Zero Punctuation: Fable 3

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The ending was hilarious. "No one wanted to be the guy that brings up the fact that 3/4 of the population was dead" hahaha.

Brilliant review!

Ha, he totally called it on all of it's faults.

And the EXACT same thing happened to me. I had Four Million in my pocket, Two Million in the treasury, but suddenly it was final battle time and there was no time to spend the four seconds it would take to drop the money into the treasury. Gawd demmit.

Still, loved the game. Und the review.

I didnt mind Fable3, but they could do more about the moral choice. The choice was very black and white and as you knew what was coming the bad choice was the better. So it was the choice of being nice and having your whole country destroyed and the people killed, or the tough love option as in yes i will be doing horrible morally wrong things but its to save the kingdom. Its only a year so can be all nice afterwards. The best thing they did was the choice at the start of the game, death of your girlfriend or of 3 strangers. They need more stuff like that, a tough moral choice.

Also they need to get rid of the dog, the holding hands thing and other crap that people do not use or want. Also open the world up like in Oblivion. Lets see more of albion as a whole massive world in that style would be awesome.

Warforger:

Haderos:

Anyway, must be china, they don't care about human losses that much. ( ≖‿≖)

It's not that they don't care it's that they want human losses because they have a bad case of overpopulation.

Oh in that case India must be next..
do i get another warning for this now? Was this inconsiderate?

Okay, I have no idea how I didn't get it before, but yeah, Peter Mollineux(?)'s idea of what constitutes good and evil comes down to a pure, uncompromising split down the liberal/conservative line. Which pisses me off to no end. I think in the first Fable it was more on the level, with good and evil choices being obviously good or evil. But people, you do realize that there are good and evil points to both liberal and conservative policies, right?

Back in Fable 2, the player got a choice to hook a gay man up with a dude, or set him up on a date with a nice girl like his father wanted. Now, naturally Peter arbitrarily decided that you're evil if you go against the man's wishes and obeyed the father, but is it really? I'm not saying gay people are inherently bad because they're gay, but I will ask whether letting a son go about following a path that results in no offspring and attempting to mesh two men together is really a good thing from the father's perspective? Do you think he's just homophobic? Do you think he's just trying to be mean? Maybe he just has the boy's best interest at heart?

The point is that moral choice systems of this ilk sometimes work when they try to deal with only unambigious things, but sometimes not all things one sees as good and evil are as such. I can't believe I'm the one saying that.

Haderos:

Warforger:

Haderos:

Anyway, must be china, they don't care about human losses that much. ( ≖‿≖)

It's not that they don't care it's that they want human losses because they have a bad case of overpopulation.

Oh in that case India must be next..
do i get another warning for this now? Was this inconsiderate?

Nah. The only reasons that people almost never bash China is because a) we owe a retarded amount of money to them, and b) we get most of our crap from there.

So all three games can end where the "good" option has a dire consequence on the hero? Oh Peter you soulless, silly bitch.

Haha nice review man, only played fable 1 and even that was for a short while. Some how I couldn't really pay attention to the story line and only just see the pretty things to be stolen, the people to be murdered and the houses to be bought. Made me a lot of money before games end.

But damn this moral choice system sounds the worst ever. Being 'evil' so we can all live another day, or being 'good' and die in a beautifull place on earth. Seriously if letting 3/4 die is good and none die except the world being destroyed a bit. You have to be an eco-lover to let all those people die.

I got to say, i quite enjoyed Fable 1, when i first played it it was quite a fun novelty, though i didn't spend a whole lot of time on the frivolous things, the over all game was light hearted,and funny. Even playing it the second time as the Lost Chapters or whatever, was still a fun time. However the crap in Fable 2 and what i assume will be in Fable 3 seem to have gone from a conservative fantasy Saints Row 2, to a meaninglessly boring game version of Fear and Loathing...

strangeotron:

teknoarcanist:

Mass Effect does everything Fable wishes it could do, with the extremely elegant good-cop-bad-cop "paragon/renegade" mechanic.

Not really, Mass Effect has no deeper or more believable a morality system. You either choose to be a giant ass or a nice person. You aren't rewarded unless you commit to a single path, it's totally facile. And you don't benefit unless you rack up an arbitrary amount of renegade or paragon points, sometimes awarded incongruously.

They are awarded pretty arbitrarily, and the persuasion/charm/scarymofo stat checks (serving your gaming needs since 1985 :O) are a little old-school, but you actually don't have to choose. You can take the middle path and be neither Paragon nor Renegade -- it's just less suited to getting shit done.

Idk, maybe it was just me, but having the morality system contextualized as good cop / bad cop and being put in situations that tested THAT rather than my ability to agree with Peter Molyneux felt much more immersive and enjoyable.

Haha, oh man this one was great. I was laughing all the way through, especially at the "Xbox wasps."

Have attempts made by Lionhead to simplify and slim down the gameplay improved it, added not much change or just dumbed it down?

I'll agree, the Fable IP is uncomfortably shitty. I don't know why humans choose to bask in this that is the incarnation of Molyneux's madness and bee-hive-inducing Xbox failure.

I hope other games don't take the approach of combining genres into one game. Let's make it FPS/RPG and then a Civ-Type game.

The only game that has done this well is Rise of Nations, and that was about 8 years ago.

teknoarcanist:

strangeotron:

teknoarcanist:

Mass Effect does everything Fable wishes it could do, with the extremely elegant good-cop-bad-cop "paragon/renegade" mechanic.

Not really, Mass Effect has no deeper or more believable a morality system. You either choose to be a giant ass or a nice person. You aren't rewarded unless you commit to a single path, it's totally facile. And you don't benefit unless you rack up an arbitrary amount of renegade or paragon points, sometimes awarded incongruously.

They are awarded pretty arbitrarily, and the persuasion/charm/scarymofo stat checks (serving your gaming needs since 1985 :O) are a little old-school, but you actually don't have to choose. You can take the middle path and be neither Paragon nor Renegade -- it's just less suited to getting shit done.

Idk, maybe it was just me, but having the morality system contextualized as good cop / bad cop and being put in situations that tested THAT rather than my ability to agree with Peter Molyneux felt much more immersive and enjoyable.

Morality in any of these games doesn't work beyond unlocking dialog choices. Ultimately you are the good guy and ultimately the missions involve you doing good things (helping people, saving the galaxy, stopping Armus from wiping out Albion). So it's all rather bullshit.

It always seems that everyone has a very fluid idea of a game until the ZP review comes out, then "Yeah thats what I thought". I am not saying that you can't have the same opinion, but feel free to disagree with him, and I'm not saying this just because people have a different point of view to me. It's not like he won't invite you to his birthday party if you do.
Like here - I really enjoyed F3. I liked F:TLC, I spend a while on F2, but I haven't had fun like in F3 for a while. Magic+guns+swords all merge together fairly well, the fights are fun, if they would last longer, and the decisions are challenging, if you are trying to be good at least. Oh, and thanks for the warning - I was about to leave the game running for ageslike you, but I am trying to be good, so have to go co-op with my brother - FOR WHICH I GET PAID! Hehehe!
Oh, and please bring back the mini-map. Otherwise, I don't bother learning directions, I just follow that gold thing, and never bother learning where things are.

That was one of the best videos you've made. I especially liked the dog fucking bit!

I was really pissed off when the game jumped 150 days or whatever and everyone called me a bad leader even though I had a plan!

Concerning Characterization: The story writers for the Fable games should simply read the Discworld novels and take notes from the characerization of Lord Vetinari.

Concerning Peter Molyneux: This man is the avatar of over-hype, essentially the less nerdy version of 1980s and 90s Richard Garriott. But while Lord British actually MADE GOOD GAMES* (until around Ultima IX), Molyneux tries too hard to please too many people in the process of developing the game. It's always the same thing: He presents an awesome idea where you think "you know, it might just work", but over the course of development it gets less and less magical and more profane. Same thing happened to Spore and probably to Civ 5 because they went for mass appeal, for action adventure instead of simulation in Fable's case. If they ever make a personal-level Kingdom management game with a detailed world, moral choices and a revolution to lead, heck, I'll buy six million copies.
Right now, though, I think Maxis and The Sims Medieval is closer to achieving what Molyneux promised for Fable 3 than Lionhead.

Also, handholding. How did anyone believe that was a key selling point? I had Fable fans biting my ears off when I even so much as dared questioning that idea's brilliance.

Concerning XBOX-Fanboys: Hey, I have an XBOX, it's my primary game system after my PC. I like neither Halo nor Fable. Actually, I like strategy games, simulations and RPGs. Am I a bad XBOX-Owner?

Concerning this Review: Best thing in a while. When it came to the point about morality, I was literally hurting from laughing too hard.

* - interestingly, the article that introduced me to the Escapist was called "The Conquest of Origin", about the Origin takeover by EA. Interesting read, I sill recommend it if you can find it in the archives.

wow that's really messed up... this is from the plot summary on the wiki page for Fable 3:

"If the player passes lots of time by sleeping, civilians will start to return, but they will react hostilely to the monarch's presence, regardless of whether they previously acted as a benevolent or evil ruler."

So... it just forces you to sleep for a long time at a certain point?

strangeotron:

teknoarcanist:

strangeotron:
Not really, Mass Effect has no deeper or more believable a morality system. You either choose to be a giant ass or a nice person. You aren't rewarded unless you commit to a single path, it's totally facile. And you don't benefit unless you rack up an arbitrary amount of renegade or paragon points, sometimes awarded incongruously.

They are awarded pretty arbitrarily, and the persuasion/charm/scarymofo stat checks (serving your gaming needs since 1985 :O) are a little old-school, but you actually don't have to choose. You can take the middle path and be neither Paragon nor Renegade -- it's just less suited to getting shit done.

Idk, maybe it was just me, but having the morality system contextualized as good cop / bad cop and being put in situations that tested THAT rather than my ability to agree with Peter Molyneux felt much more immersive and enjoyable.

Morality in any of these games doesn't work beyond unlocking dialog choices. Ultimately you are the good guy and ultimately the missions involve you doing good things (helping people, saving the galaxy, stopping Armus from wiping out Albion). So it's all rather bullshit.

If there were actual gameplay consequences, this would be interesting. If characters leave you, etc, that would be interesting.

The problem being that they tried that with KOTOR, and characters left. This made plenty of gamers angry that they were being jipped of content, but they weren't. They made decisions and the characters following them made the judgment, so-to-speak.

I don't know how much morality has consequence in Fable, and yes, I've heard that Real Estate subverted the entire dilemma. And it's an incredibly interesting and thoughtful dilemma - be the King and balance happiness over, basically, national security. They should treat this as a true dilemma instead of Good or Evil - there is no RIGHT answer to that question.

Evil? EVIL?
Sir/Madam i am attempting to prepare for an invasion of evil things from beyond the veil of time and who-knows-what-else, your opinons are invalid now get back in the mine so that while noteing your proper positioning i might be able to tell you to get BACK IN THE KITCHEN/ARMY

xbox-dwelling wasps
lol

funny this week

This was probably the best review in a long time, and I even kindof liked Fable 3.

Bluecho:

Back in Fable 2, the player got a choice to hook a gay man up with a dude, or set him up on a date with a nice girl like his father wanted. Now, naturally Peter arbitrarily decided that you're evil if you go against the man's wishes and obeyed the father, but is it really? I'm not saying gay people are inherently bad because they're gay, but I will ask whether letting a son go about following a path that results in no offspring and attempting to mesh two men together is really a good thing from the father's perspective? Do you think he's just homophobic? Do you think he's just trying to be mean? Maybe he just has the boy's best interest at heart?

It's why I consider all video game morality systems that attach "good" (Paragon, Saint, whatever) and "evil" (Renegade, Devil-spawn, etc.) to be amusing diversions to see how many different dialog/sequences/endings you can get, which is essentially what they all are.

To play Devil's Advocate, I could argue that the father isn't really being a father if he refuses to let his own son make his own choices for himself, and if his son doesn't do the thing he wants, THERE'S A REASON. It's the same thing with arranged marriages and the like. I hate seeing parents dominate their children as if the children were merely a vehicle for the parents' (or parent's) vindication for having the children in the first place. Obligatory disclaimer: I'm not claiming to know the ANSWER to making the perfect child; obviously, there are infinity plus one factors involved.

necronmm:
So... it just forces you to sleep for a long time at a certain point?

No? I finished Fable 3, and I don't recall any portion where the game makes you sleep.

I really liked Fable 3 (the charm/feel + combat endeared themselves to me). However, on the morality aspect, I'm going to have to say that no one has actually "done" morality "right." The reason being is that games would have to become some multiple larger to consider even half of any particular scenario. It's what annoyed me sometimes when I played Mass Effect 1 and 2. None of my choices felt personal and "me" at all, since I always choose the extremely good options (because I don't like being an asshole) to get the content.

It would be nice if we could get a game that had a morality system that actually felt human. A game that gave you complex, in-the-gray scenarios all the time. A game that forces you to stick to what you believe in, but makes you apprehensive to stick to them as well. Essentially, a game that challenges your conscience.

Ironically, the decision that was most in the gray area between good and evil was the first major decision the player has to make: between the love interest and the welfare of the demonstrators. Unfortunately, the decision was shittily done since the love interest was dropped in with little context, and it just wasn't possible to feel connected at all to the consequences of the decision outside of pragmatic gameplay interests.

It was a great review though, I really liked it.

Bang25:

JSkunk22:
It's strange, he harps on Final Fantasy XIII for "horrible" choices like walking TOO LOUDLY or the battle system, yet for this game he doesn't mention the atrocious Sanctuary bullshit or how you pretty much have to use magic or guns to not make even combat into a total chore.

He didn't mention the Sanctuary because he didn't see a problem with it jackass. If he thought it was a bad addition he would have mentioned it.

Oh my, that was very, very rude of you. I hope you apologize, otherwise I fear we won't become good friends. The menu system, aka Sanctuary just seemed like the sort of thing to annoy anyone who plays video games. It takes so long to load, is horribly unorganized, and utterly a huge waste. Why take 5 minutes just to change a hat? Seems pretty lame to me.

Wow. Extra Credits already has more than double ZP.

Anyway, good review. I played Fable 2 a bit, didn't like it, went on to play Halo 3. Which I liked a lot. FUCK YOU YATZHEE! (just kidding, but you said the same for anybody that didn't think Portal was perfect.)

On another note, that last bit is what sounds ass-backwards. The evil option allows everyone to live, even if their lives will be shit for one year and then amazing for eternity? (read: until Fable 4, which will presumably allow you to dethrone, I don't know, God?) or the good option is the one where everyone is consumed?

But after all's said and done, you can defeat the evil anyway? So why not just fuck around for one entire year, doing whatever, and then become the stalwart hero of the land?

Can I irrelevantly wine that there should be a review of super meatboy, and goldmine of sexual punnery, difficulty complainary but over all greatness....sity.

so fucking true fable gets worse as it goes on and i actually like fable.....

Would be nice if you stopped throwing in your anti white rhetoric every review. Blah blah rednecks have 18 kids, blah blah having a white hero is racist. God forbid that if white people make a game they have a white hero, how unthinkable.

Otherwise good review, but I think I'm done watching these because of this.

5 Minutes to load? It did it instantly for me, and it probably did it instantly for Yahtzee. THAT is why he didn't mention it. (Sorry)

JSkunk22:

Bang25:

JSkunk22:
It's strange, he harps on Final Fantasy XIII for "horrible" choices like walking TOO LOUDLY or the battle system, yet for this game he doesn't mention the atrocious Sanctuary bullshit or how you pretty much have to use magic or guns to not make even combat into a total chore.

He didn't mention the Sanctuary because he didn't see a problem with it jackass. If he thought it was a bad addition he would have mentioned it.

Oh my, that was very, very rude of you. I hope you apologize, otherwise I fear we won't become good friends. The menu system, aka Sanctuary just seemed like the sort of thing to annoy anyone who plays video games. It takes so long to load, is horribly unorganized, and utterly a huge waste. Why take 5 minutes just to change a hat? Seems pretty lame to me.

5 minutes to load? It did it instantly for me, and it probably did it instantly for Yahtzee. That is why he didn't mention it. You might have a problem with your 360 if it took that long to load. (sorry)

Accidental double post error.

Great job chap, You summarized the game perfectly.

Undead Dragon King:
Hahaha, excellent review! I'm glad you mentioned the Bowerstone Lake decision. It was just the exemplar of an overall bad game. Peter Molyneux can suck it at this point.

No it was a suck review as is most of Yut-zee's work. Are they entertaining and amusing? Yes, but are they useful? Christ I've never walked away from a single one of his reviews and thought "damn I need to play that game."

It was a retarded game review for no other reason than to hear an idiot sound off for the joy of his own voice. Did you listen to it? It's like he thinks he's saving the fable fan base from themselves.

Fable 2 was the whole reason that made me get an xbox 360 and I moved along to 3. I'm not calling it splender in the grass... but if you look at 0 punction what is? (Besides Portal for crying out loud seriously? a 3 hour game? Really?)

Peter Malanoe is a lazy douche bag, but we hardly needed Yut-zee bitchee mc bitch cakes to speak up on our behalf.

Cielo Vazquez:
so fucking true fable gets worse as it goes on and i actually like fable.....

Exactly this has been commented on by Fables real fans back when Yut zee was off playing fucking wow for the last 3 months. Fable fans in this very forum have already lone sense pointed out at far better length, objectively all these games problems.

I honestly thought he moved over it knowing fable fans weren't going to listen and he'd do something more productive, but he just had to walk up to it to relieve himself all over something fun.

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