The Big Picture: Magneto Was Right

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Shoggoth2588:
I'm sorry you were bullied Bob but the line, 'a veritable rainbow coalition of torment' made me giggle a little.

My reaction was a little different; the last time I saw thirty multicoloured Abobos in a row, I was eight years old (a long time ago now) and had had WAY too much sugar...

Anyway, interesting point, good video. Keep 'em coming Bob!

And to play Devil's advocate for a brief moment...

I'd like to point out that liberal elitism and douchebaggery does exist, despite how some choice ultra-conservatives might exaggerate. Prime example would be Matt Groening and the rest of the once funny writers of The Simpsons. I swear, ever since 2000 they have expressed nothing but utter contempt for the "average viewer" and for most Americans as a whole. Exhibit A: Comming To Homerica. Never mind how idiotic the premise of using American citizens as proxy for illegal americans: it's how they actually expect us to take this crap in because they think we're that stupid. Read Kirken's World for season 20 as a whole.

Also there's Family Guy, which almost amazingly has even more contempt for its viewers: especially conservatives, Christians, and others who don't conform to Seth McFarlane's liberal ideologies. Never mind how Peter was reduced to an utter impressinoable moron or how Lois is now an irresponsible nympho or how Chris is barely there or how Meg jokes have become sad or even how Stewie was changed from an effeminate mad scientist with world domination aspirations to a walking talking unfunny gay stereotype. It's how Brian has turned into a mouthpiece for McFarlane; an insufferable liberal atheist douchebag that gives atheists and liberals all over a bad name.

I suspect that the reason why Fox keeps these morons at all anymore is not that they make money; it's so they can insult liberals, use their views as fodder, prove how intellectual is synonymous with elitist, and make money at the same time. Pure. Fucking. Genius.

I have given this hypothetical some serious thought and while part of me would like to join Magneto, I would have to side with Professor X. One of Magneto's goals is to conquer and enslave humanity. Therein lies the problem. No one can accuse me of being a naive optimist, but I do think that humanity is capable of progress; however, it takes a long time. Enslaving humanity will only result in them hating mutants even more. Professor X's goal of peaceful co-existence makes more sense in the long-run and you cannot have a successful future without long-term thinking.

Now back in our world, if someone has plan to reverse this anti-intellectualism trend in the English speaking world, count me in!

To be honest Bob, I would probably still join the X-Men, even though I too suffered at the hands of bullies. Mostly because I don't think Magneto's method is really going to solve the problem, it would just reduce us to their level and who wants that?

MelasZepheos:

Sentox6:

MelasZepheos:
Magneto was a terrorist who in every continuity of he X-Men save for the recent cartoons (even in the old ones he killed, it was just off-screen) is a mass murderer on the genocidal level. To say you agree with Magneto is literally like saying you agree with minority group terrorists, because that's what he is. That's what the writers intend for you to see him as, a Well-Intentioned Extremist who has taken his own dogma so thoroughly to heart that he believes he is entirely justified in killing normal people and imposing his worldview on everyone.

Educate yourself.

First things first: Low content post, and vaguely offensive (inferring I am uneducated in the matter).

Low content is when you're not contributing to the discussion. I clearly directed you to a source of information that countered an incorrect statement of yours: that Magneto is a genocidal mass-murderer in every continuity. If I was simply aiming to be pedantic, I could dismiss that claim outright by pointing out the Earth-295 continuity. As it stands, however, one cannot rightfully call Magneto genocidal in mainstream continuity, let alone all of them.

There's nothing "offensive" about the implications of my statement. You clearly are uneducated on the character, because you made a claim about him that is ludicrously false. "Uneducated" should only be offensive when it's falsely assumed or used to imply wider inferiority.

Magento is a fascist, and nothing I saw in that article, or in his entire comic book history, negates that belief. Interestingly what Magneto is is not the view of fascism that the world holds today (which is in fact National Socialism=fascism) but his is closer to true fascism.

Let's try not to derail the discussion, please. You yourself made absolutely no references to fascism in your original post, and neither did I in my reply.

You know, I really like the point made about people who are picked on (or those trying to make them feel better) excusing bullying to an aggressive act by the insecure inferior towards the superior. People through my life have tried to convince me "it's because you're better than that", "it's because you're smart", etc.

What I prefer to think, and what makes more sense, is projecting. Either you have a characteristic they don't even like within themselves, or something that counters and therefore worsens by comparison something they don't like about themselves. Neither of these make you better, the bullying is just an unfortunate result of people being insecure and not knowing how to deal. In our world, probably the skill given the least attention is that of self-reflection and coping/growing.

To answer the question... I'd probably be one of those outsiders that get caught in the middle of the "work with humanity"/"no... smite them all" conflict because I wouldn't choose either side. No, I'm not trying to just straddle the fence or be indecisive. I just don't believe in mass-murder or peace on earth. The two sides are too much towards one or the other for me. I've been the bullied, and Magneto is just a bullied becoming a bully. But the X-Men are sometimes too forgiving for my taste, and really do carry that superior attitude with them a bit because of the good they do, which to me takes away from the good deeds.

What a powerful question indeed Bob. They do say that power corrupts. It's never defined whether that corruption had a good starting reason behind it to prod it along it's way. I may be stoned for it but this is very well seen in the rise of the Nazi state in Germany during the time that led up to and through WWII. Germany was maliciously disabled after the first World War and that prodding allowed for a corrupt, but effective to wrong the errs of the past, governing body to rise and rule. History teaches us many things, if only we pay attention.

I like to think that we can overcome these faults of others and focus on the nobility within ourselves. Perhaps that's putting too much faith in humanity.

Also kudos to you for naming the man that inspired many on-screen horrors. I find that not so many people know his disgusting tale.

Wasn't bullied much yet I HATE stupid people and would destroy most people I believe to be idiots given the chance. Thanks for justifying my views on people, it made for a hell of a birthday present.

This video is a real sign of the times. Nowadays, people who are bullied in school will vent their pubescent frustrations on a blog/social networking page/whatever. Seeing as Bob lacked this coping mechanism, his much-needed venting has been delayed by what, a decade or so? I didn't have a blog when I was in high school, but I was fortunate enough to have internet access, which gave me the greatest of coping mechanisms - Porn. Filthy, filthy porn. Hell, I still remember the feeling of smug superiority I had when, for a fleeting moment, I was the go-to guy for porn at school. To this day I'm still astonished that it never came back to bite me in the ass.

Okay, first things first, thanks to this video I have to say this. "It's K-K-K-Ken, c-c-c-c-coming to k-k-k-k-kill me."

And second, I have to commend Bob on posing a good question. I'd like to think that if the roles had been reversed in school, I would have been better than those idiots that bullied me and allowed them to go about their business. I know that now I'd be an X-man if granted powers. And now I stand up to the kinds of people that used to bully me. But a lot of that comes from the fact that I was bullied and I know how it feels. I would never want the same thing to happen to someone else. Especially if I was the one doing it. The cycle has got to end sometime.

Learn to embrace differences. If we were all the same, then life would be boring.

MichaelMaverick:
I'm seriously considering that I'll stop watching this piss. I've disagreed with Bob on numerous occasions before, but The Big Picture is like a newly-grown tumor on his brain. I can understand the bitterness and overall disinclination from society, but the sheer egotism in this episode was unparalleled to anything I've ever seen in regards to nerd culture.

Bob, you and I and most other people weren't bullied in school because we're different/special/"superior" - it's often part of the reason, but what makes others bully you is the social factor. It's also the reason for why they CAN bully you in the first place - you're not a part of any real social circle, or the one or two friends you do have are shite. And hand in hand together with that goes the fact that you're psychologically weak. You may lull yourself with the comforting thought of your superior intellect if you want to, Bob, but answer me this: does he who is really so goddamn smart allow himself to be continually bullied? Of course not! Again, it's comforting to think that the world is divided into the big bad jocks and the oppressed but good nerds, but back then at least it was the other way around - you were the idiot, and they were smart. Smart and consciously evil to some extent. They started bullying you because they identified the psychological weakness and thus an opportunity for entertainment, and kept going at it because they knew you wouldn't fight back.
I'd be willing to bet my life that this is how it was with at least 95% of us.

AND WE ALL FUCKING DESERVED IT.

We deserved too have our high school experience ruined by a bunch of racist, sexist pricks? Right....

OT: an interesting point Bob.

wildcard9:

Also there's Family Guy, which almost amazingly has even more contempt for its viewers: especially conservatives, Christians, and others who don't conform to Seth McFarlane's liberal ideologies. Never mind how Peter was reduced to an utter impressinoable moron or how Lois is now an irresponsible nympho or how Chris is barely there or how Meg jokes have become sad or even how Stewie was changed from an effeminate mad scientist with world domination aspirations to a walking talking unfunny gay stereotype. It's how Brian has turned into a mouthpiece for McFarlane; an insufferable liberal atheist douchebag that gives atheists and liberals all over a bad name.

Yeah I haven't watched Family Guy for a while for these reasons. I kept waiting for jokes but all I was hearing was "Conservatives are stupid and if you don't agree with me you must be stupid too!"

Screw X-men or Brotherhood of Mutants. I'd be on a government backed super team. Though one with a name people know, or else I'd end up as canon fodder for the next big crisis.

Moonstone (a former villain no less) got paid 12 million a year for leading the Thunderbolts. How many have you actually heard of her or the team?

Or Cable, he knows what going on. I'd follow him.

There IS the whole issue of the X-Men trying to fix said system and the Brotherhood of mutants attempting mass murder on a regular basis.

Is this a boy thing again?
Because I was bullied up through high school and I barely think of the bullies anymore, I never think I was to be better than them, or want to be better for revenge.
Tho I guess when girls are bullied we tend to just loose self esteem and become anorexic or something.

I have a possible answer to Bob's question of why people get bullied even if they're not 'different'.

Bullying doesn't always happen because you're intrinsically different (sometimes it does, as in racism for e.g.), sometimes it happens because your BEHAVIOR is different.

I'm not an evolutionary biologist, so I don't know for sure, but I suspect from an evolutionary standpoint, different is usually not better. Prehistoric humans, who most likely relied on well-tried hunter-gatherer techniques and extensive teamwork to gather resources, and rigid cultural traditions to distinguish themselves from other groups, probably adhered to very rigid, yet unspoken, rules of behavior. Behaving in a way that was even slightly different from your peers was probably a good way to get brutalized back into line.

This was (again, probably) because nature selects for 'better' and not 'different'. Of course, better means different things depending on your circumstances. In the wild, usually 'better' meant taller, stronger, and better able to work well with others. If you were smaller, weaker, and more awkward, the group didn't want you around. In another age, 'nerds' would probably be kicked out of the group or relegated to servitude.

Then technology got invented, and all of a sudden being tall and strong didn't matter as much anymore. But think about it; who usually achieves the most in modern society? Who gets paid the most, gets respected the most?, gets admired and praised the most?

Top salespeople. Upper management. Entrepreneurs. Senators. Military Generals. These are all people with superior social skills. People who are good at influencing, organizing, and leading others. You almost never hear or see these types of people ever behave awkwardly, or do anything the slightest bit 'weird' unless maybe they're under lots of pressure.

I, personally, have never heard of someone who achieved that level of financial and personal success AND had not mastered social skills.

Bottom line, natural selection for physical strength and overall health may have been short-circuited by technology, but we're still programmed to select for superior social skills and 'social skills' are still defined by a fairly narrow set of behaviors. Deviate, and you're going to get singled out.

Bottom line: Nobody likes people who pick their nose, nobody wants to be the guy with the squeaky, nasal voice who trips over every other word, nobody wants to be the girl who wears frumpy sweatshirts all the time and doesn't use common slang correctly in conversation. These are all behavior things, and they're probably what decides who gets bullied and who doesn't, all other things equal.

The above is why this comic makes sense:
image

Think about if you ever heard someone say something like that. Would you briefly entertain the thought of slapping them across their stupid faces? If so, congratulations! You're a closet bully!

I would be like Spawn. Not on any side, just blaming a higer power for everything and killing anyone who pisses me off.

Well, I'm with Movie Bob on this one. Magento all the way.

MichaelMaverick:
I'm seriously considering that I'll stop watching this piss. I've disagreed with Bob on numerous occasions before, but The Big Picture is like a newly-grown tumor on his brain. I can understand the bitterness and overall disinclination from society, but the sheer egotism in this episode was unparalleled to anything I've ever seen in regards to nerd culture.

Bob, you and I and most other people weren't bullied in school because we're different/special/"superior" - it's often part of the reason, but what makes others bully you is the social factor. It's also the reason for why they CAN bully you in the first place - you're not a part of any real social circle, or the one or two friends you do have are shite. And hand in hand together with that goes the fact that you're psychologically weak. You may lull yourself with the comforting thought of your superior intellect if you want to, Bob, but answer me this: does he who is really so goddamn smart allow himself to be continually bullied? Of course not! Again, it's comforting to think that the world is divided into the big bad jocks and the oppressed but good nerds, but back then at least it was the other way around - you were the idiot, and they were smart. Smart and consciously evil to some extent. They started bullying you because they identified the psychological weakness and thus an opportunity for entertainment, and kept going at it because they knew you wouldn't fight back.
I'd be willing to bet my life that this is how it was with at least 95% of us.

AND WE ALL FUCKING DESERVED IT.

I agree.

I already posted on this thread before I read this post, but Maverick mirrors my beliefs on the subject.

The cause of bullying (with the exception of blatant racism) has nothing to do with differences and everything to do with social skills. Does that make it right? No. But like so many human failings, bullying is something that's a part of our makeup, and something that we need to anticipate and address appropriately.

Looking back on my experience being bullied, I realize that if someone (like my parents) had slapped me across the face and said, "You're being bullied because you're not socially adequate. Here's how you fix that. Now go and fix it.", I probably would have been better off.

And yes Maverick, the lesson here is that we did deserve to be bullied, and that we are the common denominator in all of our interactions with others. If our interactions aren't going the way we want them to, it's our problem.

Is this blaming the victim? Yes, but I think it's appropriate in this case because victims of garden variety bullying (excluding victims of homophobia and racism, of course) are victims of their own lack of ability and understanding; two things that can be rectified with the right know-how and hard work. We may not all have had access to the know-how as kids, but that's no reason not to take the right lessons from our experiences.

Don't we usually ridicule people who are the victims of their own ignorance and lack of ability?

The answer is yes.

I laughed.

Yeah I'd totally be a dick if I had super powers. Though I don't think I'd have such ambition to become a full on super villain.

lets just put it like this given time the "bad guys" always win so i am just going to join them and cut out the screwing around with "good"

I'm a rare case in that I was/am a nerd but wasn't really bullied too hard (possibly due to the fact that I fight incredibly dirty *cough*)... So I'd probably be inclined to side with the goodies.

More likely, I'd just join the side that would involve the least amount of work, or possibly the one that paid better...

ok bob, normally i agree with you on a lot of the things you say, almost all, but this is where i draw the line.

i use to get bullied a lot in middle school, i did, but i got past it. its my senior year and i have a lot of friends now. come to think of it, bullies become non existent. although i do admit to being the only bully in my enitre school sometimes (i like to mess with this one quirky asian kid, god he is so weird) however, i'm not picking on him b/c i'm scared he's superior to me, i'm picking on him b/c it's funny as hell.

this kid is the least superior kid ever, inferior is more like it; he's short, i'm tall. i have a ton of awesome friends, he's got a couple weird unsocial freinds and the social consuluer. this might sound gay but i have a sense of fashion and what i'm wearing, he where's the same huge ass coat everyday. seriously, this kid is like a bug compared to me. my face is handsome, his is acne ridden. i'm good with people, he isn't. did i mention he's super dorky asian? there's an extremely low asian population at my school, he's actually one of the only few residential asian kids, the other asian kids are foreign exchange, and they just talk amongst themselves. to top it off, the other asians at my school are pretty hot. this kids like a fish out of water.

to further my point, yes, i'm with magneto, but no, we weren't picked on b/c of fear of being superior. we were picked on b/c bullies get the reaction they wanted from us; something humorous. like one time i shouted and pointed "OH LOOK GODZILLA!" and he sat there staring at me with this HILARIOUS expression and after a pause he said with a very dork accent; "umm, act-twelly, i am not jahp-ahn-eez, i am souf ko-wean". i was laughing so god damn hard, everyone else was to.

so that's the bottom line. it's funny. i love to see dorks do dorky things, it's part of what makes some of those viral youtube videos so funny.

p.s. - i am still a nerd who's on the robotics team. now what does that say about the bully food chain?

Tarkand:
There's another reason why Magneto is right anyway... technically, 'Homo Superior' isn't some kind of mutation (i.e. despite being called Mutant)... it's evolution.

Meaning that in the Marvel Universe (barring that whole House of M debacle), in a couple hundred years - the 'mutants' will be the majority. And Magneto, if history keeps his name around, will probably be seen as some kind of messianic figure.

Actually thats a faulty view on genetics and evolution. Mutants, thats to say people with the X-Gene were a possible evolutionary track, caused by an evolutionary theory called "punctuated equilibrium". Thats not to say that "contemporary humans" would have died out. In fact there is a very good chance that the mutant strain of humans would have been incompatiable with there environment (after all there is little evolutionary reason to increase ones destructive potential).

Personally i was one of those individuals who thought the x-men should have to register there abilities. After all, we are talking about a population base whose destructive potential was off the scale & with that power does not come some sort of intrinsic goodness. Heck up until decimation the percentage of mutants who were super heroes was incredibly small.

So if i where suddenly gifted with awesome mutant powers, i know whose side i would be on... Not Magnetos, not Cyclops... I'd be with Justice, the only mutant in the contemporary marvel universe who isn't a self entitled dick.

-M

Lazzi:

I didnt mean to degrade Micheal Jordan or any of his achivements, I belive that perciverence is important. Personally I think that Bobs choice of subjects in the comparison was rather poor in retrospect (mind you those are the two most well know members of that group, so we have to give him that).

Lets break it down to minimulist terms.

Person (A) has made billions of dollars by creating technology that has helped advance socity and help millions derectly and is made by the media to apper evil.

Person (B) has made billions by playing a sport which has had no reall binficall impart of society and is made out by the media as a hero.

Assume that both of these people (whome have no history of which to speak of, they have simply popped into existance for the purpose of this thaught experiment)are of the same mildly pleasnt demenor its seems rather odd that (A) is demonized simply becuase he able to think of this that most people are unable to grasp.

i think I said what I meant poorly, because that's pretty much what I meant to say. However, the reason I would guess that Jordan is still probably the top basketball example is because he goes beyond the normal player. Also: Space Jam. I mean, even his movie is better than other basketball stars and their movies (admittedly the only other movie starring a basketball player that comes to mind is Kazaam).

I was always hated and picked on at school. Though I was a weird and obscurely different kid I never did anything to warrant having the back of my head punched or my bag thrown out windows.

If I was in actual fact some super cool super powered whatever I could never stoop back to their level, their idea. This is a personal matter, there's no revenge because I would become the same as them- I would in affect create some sort of horrid nightmare where I am now the bully.

I guess the best thing to do is to use your power to make more friends, keep doing your thing and make the world a better place. Imagine if you were the nerds who wrote computer programs along side Bill Gates? They would of been great friends who would of no doubt shared in a lot of financial success. What about those who bullied Bill Gates? Living in trailer parks reading newspaper headlines. That would be more revenge than any violence or retribution could make.

The video needs moar Abobo. Damn, at least someone still remembers the guy...

Best Episode ever presented on The Big Picture Series. Period.. that's all I have to say. That, and that's literally true I couldn't believe Bob made such outstanding points. We are all different, and it's funny too because people are quick to act and judge, even be rational about it while in another prospective that person who is judged is much more 'normal' or 'better' then those who get on him.

No offense to anyone of course, and honestly I would probably be on the X-Men team because I am overly nice and care for people. Today I am judged for being Christian regardless that I help people and treat others better then myself. But, I do have flaws don't get me wrong. At least I admit it and try to make myself a better person in general. Thanks Bob for this video.

If I had to choose between the two, I'd be on Gandalf's side. Captain Picard and his psychic ass can suck it.

If I didn't have to choose between the two, I'd choose to be a third party. However this branches into mental fan fiction territory so I won't get into that here.

However the third choice would, obviously, be Deadpool. Because he's AWESOME, that's why. And DELIGHTFULLY INSANE.

Interesting take on the topic, the first from the big picture that I was interested enough in to actually comment on. Like Bob I was also bullied constantly all throughout school and high school, even some as I entered the military. Thankfully the army made me see worth in myself and I found strength in knowing that I was better as a human being and as a man then my tormentors. Since that day I have strived to prove myself to be a good man to the world

That said, I would be in Xavier's camp. I hold the individuals responsible, not all of humanity. I know there are good people out there who are "normal" and I would never want an undeserving person to experience my wrath. At the same time I probably would make my tormentors pay for what they did

Anyone else find it refreshing that Bob basically tells us from time to time that

"Yeah I'm evil and selfish in a way most people won't sympathize with, but I'm not going to try to hide it"

Funny thing is is that when I got to high school the bullying truly did stop. Guess I got lucky with my two schools.

Well, see, everyone here seems to be answering based on EXISTING X-Men.

If I had to choose just the 'idea' to side with, assuming None of the current X-Men actually existed - I'd be all over the 'lets punish those bastards' like a wet blanket!

Though to be fair, I wouldn't punish Everyone... I'd just punish anyone I felt deserved it.

Which would be great if I had the power of invisibility.

With so many pages, it's probably already been said, but the notion that your bullied because your superior actually doesn't come from any egotistical emotion, it is a simple self defense mechanism, that allows your brain to deal with the torture (and some of us were tortured not just simple bullying). If you have a reason for the why, then it is easier to handle.

well as a answer to the last question, if what we where bullied for became our superpower (smart = telepathic, size = strong etc) my uniform would probably be a pretty rainbow, so yeah i would end up with magneto just so people wouldn't laugh too much.

I agree.

I already posted on this thread before I read this post, but cMaverik mirrors my beliefs on the subject.

The cause of bullying (with the exception of blatant racism) has nothing to do with differences and everything to do with social skills. Does that make it right? No. But like so many human failings, bullying is something that's a part of our makeup, and something that we need to anticipate and address appropriately.

Looking back on my experience being bullied, I realize that if someone (like my parents) had slapped me across the face and said, "You're being bullied because you're not socially adequate. Here's how you fix that. Now go and fix it.", I probably would have been better off.

And yes Maverick, the lesson here is that we did deserve to be bullied, and that we are the common denominator in all of our interactions with others. If our interactions aren't going the way we want them to, it's our problem.

Is this blaming the victim? Yes, but I think it's appropriate in this case because victims of garden variety bullying (excluding victims of homophobia and racism, of course) are victims of their own lack of ability and understanding; two things that can be rectified with the right know-how and hard work. We may not all have had access to the know-how as kids, but that's no reason not to take the right lessons from our experiences.

Don't we usually ridicule people who are the victims of their own ignorance and lack of ability?

The answer is yes.[/quote]

So..instead of showing the bully that this behavior just wont fly we should be kicking the victims into something that in most cases fits neither there talent nor there temperament? is there something inherently wrong with being less then socially outgoing? There is no reason, ever to bully somebody and the second you start telling victims that its time to alter themselves. Weather they want to or not just to escape torment and conform with the broadly accepted social norms then you'll see just how badly things will go.

In closing, good luck trying to win support. I'm sure that kid 5 jocks just smashed is gonna really love copping the blame for being an easy target. Because shyness is bad, social introverts are evil and the kids who don't get involved? well its just plain fun to beat on them cause like woman in scanty clothing, blacks in the deep south and all those other so-called "victims" of baseless abuse? well they where just asking for it.

Fuck you

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