Here's my problem: I agreed with Magneto when he wanted to make a healthy peaceful nation in which mutants could be mutants (Genosha was the Israel of Mutants). But everytime he goes all' "I will make them pay for what they have done" Ultimatum style on the world of humanity, I have to put my foot down. Same holds true when the subject is Zod, Maxwell Lord, and Red Skull.

It is one thing to live better, or even apart (look at the Inhumans, a group that will never get a movie), it is another thing to live at the expensive of another, or worse yet, live for revenge against (and the extermination of) another group. Bigotry is bigotry is bigotry.

thebighead01:

LogicNProportion:

thebighead01:

so you agree with him that if you aren't capable of standing up to your bullies you deserve it?

Complacency will always deserve what comes to it.

While I do believe in defending those who can not defend themselves...it would be nice if more people learned that in order to survive a bit more, you need to adapt to the situation...

you're not american by any chance are you?

Grew up in Italy, so technically no.

Moved to US two years ago.

You definitely make some fine points here. However, I don't think bullies act as they do because they're consciously intimidated by their targets. On the conscious level, it's because they're thick-headed morons who don't know how to be honest with themselves. On the subconscious level, however, they are indeed intimidated, but not by their target specifically. They're intimidated by how their target's behavior could affect their own standing in society.

For example, when I was in high school, the idiots often bullied me by accusing me of being gay. I didn't wear tight clothing or talk with a nasal, lispy voice, and I'm certain at this point that I'm straight (five semesters at SUNY Purchase will do that). The bullies accused me of being gay not because of stereotypical indicators, but because I didn't buy into what they believed to be signs of masculinity. I didn't wear camo; I was vocally against driving pick-up trucks; I despised football; I treated girls in an manner equal to how I treated guys. In fact, when I talked to people I knew about this, they all pretty much agreed that there was no question that I was indeed masculine in my own right.

This must have scared the crap out of the redneck bullies. My behavior invalidated their code of masculinity. They went through so much effort to PROVE they were straight only to see someone who'd achieved more than they had without even trying. Their bullying was nothing more than a frightened response to an alternative (if not superior) perspective.

As for which side I'd be on if I were a mutant, I think I'd be one of the hermits who'd refuse to join either side. A lot of people are morons, yes, but at this point I don't even remember most of the people on That List From High School. Basically, I'd only ever use my mutant super power to protect myself and my family and friends, be it from William Stryker or Magneto.

I hate, absolutely hate this whole time machine social caste people draw up of intelligent geeks who are oppressed by the majority of atheltic assholes. there is nothing wrong with being athetlic at all. Heck training every day is admirable as it shows both discpline and effort. And being a geek does not mean you are instantly smart, it tends to be more intelligent lads and ladies who are geeks but even then it is no gurantee.

And do you know what? some of the worse bullying happens within geek groups, people absolutly rubbishing someone for not going with group mentality. Imagine someone suggesting they prefered the newer Star wars films or that they liked the fourth Indianna Jones film. They would be completely hounded for that heresy. Geeks bullying just as much as other groups. It was among my geeky friend where some of the most intricate plans for social humiliation were carried out.

I'm not saying that as a group geeks bully more, but that this view that we are the punching bag of the world is silly.

As for the whole Magneto thing, you do know that means you could never have human frineds or mayy a nice human girl? I think it's a bit scary that people here think that siding with the Magnet controlling Racist is a good choice. He's clearly portrayed as evil ablbeit sympathetically and so too are some of the evil humans. The point is that what you are doing with Magneto is basically (and this is intended by the authors to be ironic) siding with a Nazi by an other name. Same superiority stuff, same we have been oppressed stuff.

I don't think it's about being different, but about being misunderstood or not understood at all. And obviously, that IS a kind of difference, but it's important what kind of a difference it is:
First, it has to be "over the limit". So we are all different, but we can accept some amount of difference, especially when we expect it. Someone likes football while I prefer basketball? Who would even think of the other guy being "different" and "creepy". On the other hand, if he says that he likes to kill and skin little kittens, and then eat the meat and sell the skin, then I freak out and keep my distance. Because that is outside of my scope of understanding, (so I can't understand the why of this strange hobby) and it is not included in my "set of things that people can like or do, even if i don't get it".
The other part is visible difference, that is "calculated" from the size of the difference, the importance of the part which is different and last but not least, how unpleasing it is to look at the difference.
So what do we think of when we don't understand something: "If it's weaker then me, then I should dispose of it, or show myself that i am superior, or if it's stronger than me, than gather around with like-minden people and talk about how wierd and whatever it is, while staying as far from it as possible." "It" can be a person or something else.

On the other hand, humans have an extremely powerful mind and can process stuff like difference when they actually want to. An open mind is a tad more dangerous usually than a closed one, but at least you won't automatically beleive everyone "strange" to be someone to stay away from.

And while I kinda liked magneto, I'd still probably go for the other side. I was bullied plenty and sometimes became a bully myself during school. I'm still kinda "suffering" from being different than your avarage youth, but in the end someone has to be the more intelligent, wise and whatever, and it would kinda suck if I, the super evolved guy, turned out to be inferior in terms of intelligence and wisdom. For we all know what power without wisdom equals to...

MichaelMaverick:

snip

I am curious as to how you didn't get that the video was hypothetical in nature. He was explaining what some bullied people wish the reason was. It is a comforting reason that helps you cope with such things. Now you have pretty much hit the nail on the head as to the more, for lack of a better word, realistic reason. But I have found myself with the lingering thought that he mentioned here when I was bullied in my middle/high school days. That said, was it a little sad, in retrospective, to think like that from time to time? yes. But it was comforting for a person like me to do so. However, does that mean I deserved it for being to weak to defend myself against several people? I would hope not. Also, if you said such things to my face, I would probably try to beat your face in. Now I say that because you should never try to dismiss someone's pain or past like that. Even if you make reference to being bullied in school that does not mean you know what it was like to be in my shoes or MovieBob's or anyone else's that has been bullied. Anyway, just a tip for you... I guess.

In fact I would probably attempt to hide my powers and live a normal life (whilst secretly using my powers to make a bit of cash on the side and thus avoid working in a regular job). Hell, I'm a student, I'm doing that NOW with student loans and junk.[/quote]

yeah you do!

Another thing that troubles me is that Bob is happier to be the one holding the whip than to abolish whips.

You don't think bullying is wrong at all Bob, you'd just rather be the bully. (quote)

the whips thing was way cool, but I dont think Bob wants to harm innocent people, just those who do wrong, I would call that more vigilante than bully

I would join the good side.

I still remember being bullied back in junior high. But as soon as I got to high school, things got better for me as I was bullied less and then it stopped as I got older. Even though I kinda deserved it for the reason why, I didn't deserve to be pushed to the limit where I was outnumbered and couldn't do anything about it. But to this day, it was only words and words are less painful and physical bullying.

If you'd have asked me 10-15 years ago, I'd have said Magneto in a heartbeat.

But after a decade of soul-searching, and coming to terms with my own past asshole-ish behaviour, I have to conclude that being a geek does not automatically grant you some kind of superior moral compass. And the persecuted becoming the persecutors is a sadly common pattern that's cut a long, bloody swath through human history. These days, I'd rather live and let live whenever possible.

Bill Gates wasn't demonized for making money from his work. He was demonized for doing so with often sub-par products, illegal methods, highly deceptive marketing, and(oh yeah) BULLYING. In fact, under the wing of Gates, computer distributors would be outright threatened with no Windows licenses if they ever dared produce a computer running a competing product(outright killing BeOS, OS/2 Warp, and many proto-desktop linuxes before they could start). In fact, the Gates-run Microsoft often set back the adoption of new and interesting technologies because before people got wise to the fact that MS spouted liquid bullshit from every orifice people would avoid buying new products because MS promised they would be producing a superior version of the product. He's certainly trying to make up for lost time now, but it's not as though he didn't make all that money he uses to help the poor by trampling over the competition in insanely immoral ways(when not just outright illegal).

Seriously, guy buys a few malaria vaccines and everyone forgets that he basically was a few flying monkeys short of a wicked witch back in the day. Hell, even the way he's praised is often wildly inaccurate, since he wasn't really a big computer nerd, he was a big business nerd. He didn't write DOS, he didn't come up with any of the core concepts of Windows, he didn't design anything especially groundbreaking whatsoever. He did, however, know how to sell ice to Eskimos, and knew that by leveraging the position of basically controlling the way all people interfaced with computers he could crush all competition with very little effort. So the people who regard him as some sort of phenomenal nerd icon would be equally wrong if they heaped such praise on, say, Bobby Kotick.

And if you're desperate for a sports star who has become vilified(rightly or otherwise), what about OJ Simpson or Kobe Bryant? Certainly still wearing a few battle scars from their personal lives.

I was only bullied until my junior year because all of the bullies dropped out :D

Anyway, I'd make them bastards pay for making grades 5-10 a living hell. Only hope I get some cool superpower like maybe a telekinesis ability that I can use like Jedi force. That'd be bad ass.

I know straight away what side I would choose, the Magneto side, I would gladly get my revenge on all those dicks that tormented me, and why was I beaten and tormented? Because I worked hard and paid attention in my lessons, those guys would definately pay for their behaviour.

Tonimata:
CHOP DOWN THE RAINFOREST! BURN FOSSIL FUELS! BUY MERCEDES BENZEEEEESSSSSSS!!!

Cookie for reference. Oh, and just in case I wasn't clear enough, I'd go evil. Destroying is always easier than building and I'm lazy.

...I think I remember it being from HomeStar Runner...?

I think it's important not to demonise bullies too much, and that's what the anti-bullying campaigns always get wrong.

Because the victim is the one not in the position of power, the campaign focuses on them and attempts to sympathise with them, but they don't realise they're painting an unrealistic picture of the bully to the victim. Bullies aren't generally mentally retarded meat-heads who exist solely for the purpose of beating you up. When not picking on you they might enjoy doing the same, or equivalent things to what you like to do, and generally just be normal people.

They might well not bully you forever, and who'll be in the wrong when they stop?

Even so, they are now, don't get me wrong. The problem with this issue is that it's so innately complicated.

X-Men all the way but then I had a unique upbringing.

My dad had been a gym teacher and was a coach in grade school. I played pretty much every sport, even though I was mediocre at all of them. In high school I played freshman football and made friends with football team. Practicing on the field with them and facing other teams along side them made me one of them, even though I didn't play my Sophomore, Junior, or Senior years.

But that whole time I was a total geek. I followed my brother into a life-long appreciation of comic books, I played D&D from about 6th grade on, I was an artist and some of my favorite TV shows were Doctor who and whatever science show was on PBS at the time. I was an officer in our games club at school and a member of the drama club.

I was picked on as a kid, a bit, but I fought back and it stopped. One guy beat me up, I acted like he was the boss for about a week, and then jumped him when his back was turned. After that, we were friends on equal footing.

Heck, I dry-gulched the bullies that picked on my friends. (I baited them to the ravine out back of school by calling them stupid cowards and then beat them up.)

I know not everyone can react the way I did, and I feel kinda guilty that so many of my geek brethren had such a rough time of it, but it's not always so bleak.

that something to think on, I don't really know what side I would be on. If I had the power to destroy the people who bullyed me in middle school, I don't know if I would do it or not do it.

But what about moral superiority? The best weapon there is!

Until someone brings an actual weapon, but still...

Aiddon:

Yeah, I'm not pleased especially since Niitsuma and his team promised on multiple occasions that they were going to have a "robust single player" and "great story-telling." If he had just said they were only going to have an arcade mode then maybe I wouldn't have been so ticked off. But Niitsuma essentially LIED. The closest we'll get to a story mode is those admittedly great CG trailers they released

After looking around I found someone had recorded the livestream and put it on YouTube. Apparently all the various characters have their own personal ending after beating the final boss in Arcade mode. But that's not really well enough in comparison to the trailers like you said.

370999:
As for the whole Magneto thing, you do know that means you could never have human frineds or mayy a nice human girl? I think it's a bit scary that people here think that siding with the Magnet controlling Racist is a good choice. He's clearly portrayed as evil ablbeit sympathetically and so too are some of the evil humans. The point is that what you are doing with Magneto is basically (and this is intended by the authors to be ironic) siding with a Nazi by an other name. Same superiority stuff, same we have been oppressed stuff.

awwww baaalllls he's got me there

LogicNProportion:
As someone who is part of their high school's GSA (Gay-Straight Alliance), and has many gay friends, hanging out with them regularly, I can tell you that the reason they are made fun of by idiots is because they are viewed as wussies or disgusting. Wussies because of the obvious indications of gay men being feminine, or because the act of how they have sex is seen as odd or amusing, in a grotesque way (like that kid who eats his boogers). The honestly think people who still bully gay people for religious reasons are much older and are from a different time and generation.

This perfectly leads into what I was thinking when Bob made that comment. Homophobia is so very prevalent and it will never go away if we just say "oh, it is a holdover from unenlightened religious traditions." For starters, this completely ignores the question of how the animosity towards homosexuality got into so many religions in the first place. Second of all, it ignores the question of why so many people today who couldn't give a shit about religion are also homophobic.

As you said, gays were perceived as wusses or less than men. Having thought about this a great deal, I have come to realize that the problem societies have with homosexuals is actually a fear of the violation of gender norms. Thus the stereotype of gay men as being feminine. Furthermore, to have a gay man attracted to you makes you less than a man... it is attacking your sense of manhood. You alluded to gay men's method of sex, and of course this is something that is socially considered demeaning. This furthers the idea that you are made "like a woman" through gay sex and are therefore less of a man. (It should be noted that even in the old testament the problem with homosexuality was making a man as if he were a woman... which makes sense because in ancient Judaism women were considered less than men and "unclean.")

If you look at societies that have tolerance of homosexuality you can also see a non binary view of gender. Several First Nations groups had more than two genders, for example, often filled by what we would see as gay men... even if they were forced into a domestic role.

Also it is worth noting that society has never had a problem with lesbianism the way it has with gay men. Yeah, lesbians face discrimination but the tone is different...and still gender based. Often the epithets against lesbians are based on their refusal of the role as sexual partners to men. Think about the jeer "What you need is a good c**k" or similar things. I had an Anthropology teacher tell me once that there was no such thing as a lesbian in Morocco because women having sexual contact was seen as normal.

It is convenient, especially if you already dislike religion, to place the blame upon it. But this makes it sound as if someone once said "there is something supernatural controlling nature and, oh by the way, it hates gays." In fact these laws had to come into religion through the societies that created them. Unless you believe in the divine inspiration of religious texts, in which case we would not even be having this discussion.

Dango:
Not be rude, but I can't help but feel that his point was based off a ridiculous generalization.

Is that generalization "Nerds are superior?" Because that's the one I'm thinking of.

As he mentioned in an earlier episode (or maybe it was Escape to the Movies), nerds aren't really defined by the stuff they like, at least not exclusively, and at least not anymore. It's about how they like it -- specifically that they like it to the exclusion to a whole lot of other things, and are more emotionally invested in it that a lot of the people they know. These types of behaviors manifest readily when the person doing them is introverted and obsessive. These are the qualities that differentiate the nerd from the jock, who is more extroverted and flexible. Frankly, I think the whole idea of people getting bullied because of their superiority is backwards. People may hate their superiors, but that doesn't usually translate into direct antagonism. When was the last time you gave your dick of a boss a wedgie?

Furthermore, I'd like to point out that while it makes a nice power fantasy, the X-men are not nerds (ok, some are, but it doesn't come with the title). People don't like them because they're powerful and mysterious. Not understanding something is scary enough, but it's worse when the only thing you know about it is that it could walk through your walls and strangle you in your sleep. People don't like nerds, on the other hand, because they're neurotic, tactless, and one-dimensional. If all you talk about is mega-man, it's not the other person's fault if they don't like you much. It is their fault if they decide to express that feeling by pants-ing you at lunch, but that's another story.

If people didn't like you in jr. high, it probably wasn't because you were different. It was because you sucked.

BTW: I was picked on until half way through high school, but almost never physically. I genuinely thought "bullies" only really existed in after school specials on Nick until like a year ago.

Meh, I have dealt with bullying in the past. Hyperactive, A.D.D, only child...lots of social growth to go with that. To this day I'm happier being left the hell alone, and my closest friends I keep at a distance. I hate people in general...humanity is a blight on this world and itself. I'd go as far to say that if we were created in God's image...than God is ugly. However...all I have ever really wanted was to be seen as the hero. I like going out of my way and helping people. I like sticking up for the little guy and the picked on person.

You get picked on...you fight back....you are left alone. You even get respect from those you've fought. Being the hero and fighting the good fight...almost desiring being an outcast or martyr is a life I wouldn't change. Sure I would love superpowers...but my own kiddy fantasy is one of Nightcrawler. Austrocised and seen as the villian from afar, but a hero that doesn't care that most can't see past there own two eyes.

The 'Goodguy' is where I place my hat.

dunno ... I wouldnt be a bad guy ... I mean anyone can pick up a knife and take revenge on a bully I never did so Im not the Im gonna make you suffer type.

not sure if Id be a good guy ... its gonna be cliche I bet but Im gonna say anti hero

The question is very easy to answer;

It's not "different" as such it's "differ from the socially accepted norm," socially accepted being the magic term. Children are simple creatures and need to establish a hierarchy from a young age. Physical dominance is the easiest way to show that you're the alpha male, so many species do it and humans in their young age aren't that different.

They'll notice subtle difference that make a child a viable, and most importantly easy, target and make them an example for the rest.

Also, yeah, I'm still not completely over it either. Magneto here I come. Alright alright I wouldn't make humanity pay that much and murder tons of people, but dammit I won't let them waltz all over me either.

Generic Gamer:
snip

Oh I think mister Bob knows about the arrogant little snot getting set right, but that's not the situation he's talking about. I think my situation is more what he means; whatever you do or do not do you'll end up as the bully's target, you try to hide and run away and keep away from them, but all they'll do is hunt you down and threaten you that if you don't stay away from them (yeah...) they'll stick that knife in your belly.

Now that's a severe example, but you get the point; even if you try to blend in, act normal and stay away you'll end up getting your face smashed.

Yea I was bullied but I always had a good network of friends who would look out for me and others like me, after a while their self confidence rubbed off onto me and the bullying all but stopped.

I would be on the "I will use my powers to defend myself and my friends, but no defending of all humanity or rule of all humanity" team.

I think the whole "nerds are bullied because they're superior" has some merit.

No I don't think nerds ARE superior. But I DO believe that quite a few bullies, deep down, BELIEVE that nerds are surperior. Consider that you spend the first decade or two of your life being told by every authority figure, star, cartoon and movie that intelligence is the true hallmark of superiority, and that good grades are the way to determine this. True or not, plenty of people WILL believe it.

I think I may have had those fantasy before, but now a days I just attribute getting picked on to being weaker. They do it because you can do nothing about it.

.. Ok I'll take the video bait and reply:

Bob. You missed the why, even though it was handed to you.

Those who are made fun of, bullied, etc, are done so because they are different. Thats the real reason. Just because your tormentors were diverse doesn't prove this wrong.
The real true difference, that makes bullying continue, is cultural difference.

Not so much ethnic culture, but a smaller more centric form of culture. Men and women, boys and girls, all have their own main line culture, and smaller cultural cliques within those cultures, and those who don't fit in, or can't, are bullied. Why? Well its an extended form of experimentation to see just what makes you you, since you don't fit their mental perceptions or expectations, and or its a source of amusement.

The bullies, even groups of them, likely started bullying each other. No one is exempt from hazing, as the response to it determines if you're going to be with the hazer, or a target.

Try this in real life. Find someone and say "O rly?" if they respond "Ya rly." You know they're netculture savvy and you can share your lols and lulz. If they go "yes. Really." or just look at you quizzically, you know they aren't a part of your group, and so "icanhas cheezeburger" will likely be lost on them, and they'll think you flunked English. Now if you find someone netsavvy and someone not in the same general group (lets say your coworkers), you'll probably interact more favorably with the person you share culture with, and not make as much of an effort to talk to the other person on a friendly, non-business only, level. You're excluding that other person, and, while its not in their face, its still a sort of social rejection and emotional bullying that is experienced by nerds in the realm of jock culture.

At a juvenile level this breaks down into how seriously you take verbal abuse, how well you stand up for yourself, and or how quick witted you are. The first time is what counts the most. You get called a name, you call one back (preferably more creative and harsher), and continue the escalation till it concludes in a fight or the bell rings, and you'll probably be a friend to the instigator within the semester. Get hurt or mad, and you're now a target. Because everyone likes schadenfreude, and the person who causes it. (Don't believe me? Go watch comedy central, or loony tunes for that matter.)

The ability to recognize the socialization and social-role-finding behaviour of your species is what defines you as "normal" or "different" on the most basic level. And lets face it, all of us who would self identify, or claim the label of nerd, freak, geek, etc, are, or were, a bit socially inept.

As far as the "superior therefore feared" idea goes, its just as mislead as the entire videoblog. While there may be some statistical correlation between awkward nerdy kids and above average test scores, thats not the reason.. its just an extension of the circumstances. Ever notice there are plenty of 4.0+ kids who are not socially awkward, but are popular and socially mobile, part of the "in-crowd"? How'd that happen? cheaters of course. had to be. Right? Naah, they're just intelligent enough academically AND socially to be the smart popular kids.

On the subject of demonization of intellectual prowess and achievement: This is nothing more than standard human xenophobia. We fear that which we do not understand. If this weren't the case the phrase, "Not bad, for a girl." and all its variants would never have been uttered.
Like it or not, the average mean/median person out there just doesn't really get tech. They can use it, like it, and often think its pretty, but the actual mechanics of it are beyond either their ability or care to know, and that makes the entire subject "foreign".

Why is Michael Jordan a hero for bouncing a ball? Because EVERYONE (aside from maybe quadriplegics) can bounce a ball. That inherently places ball bouncing people in their cultural circle and so are "one of them". Hence the Olympic games. Sporting events. Even if the competitors can't talk to each other, they all speak the same language of movement and competition, and shortens the gap between "us" and "them". That's the very spirit of the games, and the heart of it is a shared culture of play.

Not everyone gets what its like to be a billionaire business mogul who's forgotten more about technological engineering than 98% of the population will ever know.

Have you ever seen a flock/RASP of guinea foul? They always ostracize one of the others - either because it is different or weaker or whatever. There is always an outsider that is still technically part of the rasp.

That is basically the sacrificial hen, the one destined to be picked off by foxes, owls, or large other predators. It's squeaking death-throes alert the rest of the rasp to the peril and it those foul run away. And then a new one becomes the outsider.

I wonder if that's what has happened with humans as well, and because the outsider needs to rely more on brains than brawn and cooperation it is the people with attributes that might be considered mentally different who are often ostracized. I know, not all victims of bullying are smarter, but it's something to consider.