Dead Space 2 Is No Resident Evil 4

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Anyone got a link to the post credits RE4 scene?

hawk533:
I know exactly what you mean. The bit in Iron Man 2 where the entire Iron Man suit fits into a briefcase just made me say, "Really?" That thing can't possibly stop bullets AND make you super strong AND fold into a tiny briefcase. I think you'd have trouble fitting a suit and a pair of shoes into a briefcase.

Ninja'd by quite a length of time. Indeed, there's no way the suit could fit into that little suitcase, and even if it could, it wouldn't have room for all the complex mechanical parts as well as the actual armour plates. Not to mention that even if it did, for the suit to open out and encase a human body the way it did would require even more complex mechanical parts that couldn't fit into the suitcase. The original Iron Man suit was a bad-ass idea, even if it could never be expected to actually fly, but the portable model was just stupid.

He really doesn't think the folding helmet is believable? It's entirely believable. IT'S THE FUTURE. THEY CAN MAKE SHIT UP AND MAKE IT MAKE SENSE.

And does Yahtzee even comprehend how many great moments would have been ruined if Isaac had to take his helmet off manually and then hold it with his hands? That "eye scene" you mentioned? Where the heck is Isaac going to put his helmet when that's going on? Several quick time events wouldn't have worked (or had the urgency) if Isaac's helmet was just a detachable piece.

Also, about the transformation thing with Necromorphs - he does realize that when he says all the negatives about it, the VERY FIRST SCENE does everything he says the game doesn't do? Skin resists, you see the poor guy's pain when the transformation takes place on a living person, etc. This is textbook bad ranting Yahtzee. I expect better of you sir! I am disappoint.

Also I agree the the Spanish is VERY iffy in RE4. To borderline stupid levels. It shows me how much 5 years of Spanish classes can ruin some parts of a game. "A la reloj!" Pretty sure that's the game designers' attempt at saying "To the ruler" but I think "reloj" is just the classroom kind of ruler, not an actual leader. "Al maestro" would have been more appropriate I think, or at least the correct way to say "To the master" if what I have is wrong.

Maybe atmosphere and setting has become more impactful, from a horror stand point, rather than the nightmares that roam the corridors? If so, consider a horror theme in which you find yourself in terrifying locations simply going mad, with no monsters at all. If psychological horror is the best kind of horror, take it as far as it can go. I'm reminded of that scene in Silent Hill 3 when Heather meets Vincent and she explains she has been killing monsters, only for Vincent to act surprised by this, leaving the player to assume that you have, in fact, been bludgeoning people.

Also, the 'eyeball' scene being scary? That pretty much killed the tension for me. The 'I've just been stabbed in the eye performance' was laughable. Furthermore, could Ellie really manage to stop the haemorrhaging all on her own? Advanced med-tech or not, I find that hard to believe. Lastly, when you stab someone in the eye it ruptures, it doesn't end up like an olive on a swizzel stick!

Aha, someone else is bothered by those helmets!

Don't get me wrong, they look really cool, but they gotta be as thin and weak as tinfoil in most places, which kinda goes against the idea of a helmet as protective gear.
It's the same thing that's been bothering me about the original Transformers cartoon from the 80s. With all those fold-out components, bots like Megatron or Soundwave would either have to weigh sixty tons while disguised, or possess the structural integrity of a soufflé (sp?) in robot mode.

Sonicron:
Aha, someone else is bothered by those helmets!

Don't get me wrong, they look really cool, but they gotta be as thin and weak as tinfoil in most places, which kinda goes against the idea of a helmet as protective gear.
It's the same thing that's been bothering me about the original Transformers cartoon from the 80s. With all those fold-out components, bots like Megatron or Soundwave would either have to weigh sixty tons while disguised, or possess the structural integrity of a soufflé (sp?) in robot mode.

You totally missed the most important flaw of Issac's helmet! Not that it's weak, but...

Issac: -At multiple points in the game- "I'm being attacked and a very pointy object is coming straight for my face! At least I have this helmet to protect me!"

-Helmet folds itself away-

Issac: #%#$%TU#@

The helmets are all just ripping off the Stargate movie (the original one).
Though in that, Ra's guards helmets folded up even more into some super sci-fi little band around the back of their neck.

(which was of course later changed for the TV show, probably for budgetary reasons).

Kopikatsu:

Sonicron:
Aha, someone else is bothered by those helmets!

Don't get me wrong, they look really cool, but they gotta be as thin and weak as tinfoil in most places, which kinda goes against the idea of a helmet as protective gear.
It's the same thing that's been bothering me about the original Transformers cartoon from the 80s. With all those fold-out components, bots like Megatron or Soundwave would either have to weigh sixty tons while disguised, or possess the structural integrity of a soufflé (sp?) in robot mode.

You totally missed the most important flaw of Issac's helmet! Not that it's weak, but...

Issac: -At multiple points in the game- "I'm being attacked and a very pointy object is coming straight for my face! At least I have this helmet to protect me!"

-Helmet folds itself away-

Issac: #%#$%TU#@

Damn you. Now I sprayed soda all over my screen. xD

Labcoat Samurai:
Two slight points of disagreement.

First, the fact that people argue over the intention or meaning of something doesn't mean that it did a poor job of getting its meaning across.

Yeah I had the same feeling when I read that. I don't get how he came to that conclusion.

I get his concerns with the game (I haven't played it but can imagine what it's like), but I also disagree that a game can't move around in tone, or has to follow a strict formula. That doesn't show me the signs of lazy developers, maybe a little ham handed when it comes to horror, but not lazy.

Sure the helmet bugs you, never mind the anti gravity ipod sized arm mounted super gun or the time manipulation ipod sized super gun or the fact isacc carries 4 weighty tools at all times that magically vanish whenever he swaps between them and can store several hundred times worth of ammunition than objects their size ever really could.

Suspension of disbelief in dead space far extends beyond just the suit, almost everything in their universe makes barely any sense. Like all the doors that are barely an inch thick yet supposedly are air tight and have enough force behind them to sever an entire human in half on top of being designed like giant pairs of scissors.

The horror element I feel is just vicserals way of trying to be different since really all they're making is silly third person shooters same as everyone else, just with no cover and more blood than usual. Dead space is almost as ham fisted as gears of war, just with less testosterone and large black guys yelling 'wooooo' all the time.

That all said, huge fan of the series and can't wait to play another. =P

Vanquish kind of has an excuse in that the suit seems to be made of magic; everything you pick up or do is in some way a part of the suit. Everything except your cigarettes (no idea where he's keeping those).

Also worth noting: The plot of the game actually makes sense if you take it as a satire of recent shooters.

For the Half-Life thing, it's been done already, just with DOOM instead.

hermes200:

gigastar:
And yes i do agree with one thing Yahtzee said (or wrote), the game is just inconsistent in its messages. Gameplay is a sci-fi/gore fans dream and the story just feels like it was just stapled in then revelant cutscenes added afterwards.

That is a pretty serious problem in most games, even the good ones.

Some of the examples I can think of include Niko Bellic (troublesome, angsty past vs running over hookers and shooting cars with a bazooka), Chuck Greene (concerned parent of his motherless daughter vs riding on a tricycle over zombies wearing a bra) or even Bioshock's Jack (all the deep, intellectual conflicts can be solved with a hand that shoots bees and a wrench to the face)

I believe the main problem is that designers have a hard time marring a relatable character (which most confuse with troubled and angsty) with a badass force of nature most designers want to evoke. One of the best characters in that sense was Kratos in God of War 1, until the new directors make him extra angsty and extra badass at the same time for no good reason.

It's possible that a solution is to either tone down the characters action, at the risk of making a game that is quite boring.

Or another way is to make the story optional or just ignore the it entirely. Monster Hunter games largely ignore the story before Tri, and that led to fighting stuff like...


It's also worth noting that only one short sentence of understandable dialouge has been in the entire Monstet Hunter franchise so far, 'mmm, Nice n' Tasty' whenever you cook a steak during a quest. The rest of the games dialouge are literally generic sounds that only sound when you talk to characters. Or nya's when the resident antrophomorphic cats do something stupid for the 7856th time.

Making likeable characters who do crazy awesome enough things to keep the gameplay intresting isnt entirely impossible. It just hasnt happened in a way that everybody both knows that it happened and will accept it.

I think that the fold-helmets actually serve a very good purpose in the game. If you can't take the helmet off, then you can't lost it. Take, for example, the part where the gunship destroys the window and everything gets sucked out, forcing the main character to try to crawl to safety while being fired on. In that case, he wouldn't have time to think "Oh, I better grab my helmet before it flies out the window, never to be seen again." It's more likely he'd be thinking along the lines of 'Oh shit, run!' And losing the helmet in such a fashion would lead to not being able to go through any oxygen-free environments. While those were fairly uncommon, it still would have likely meant he would have been screwed at one point or another.

I like the idea of foldy helmets - it's practicality was demonstrated at the end of chapter 5 when Isaac is exposed to a sudden vacuum and can engage his hlmet hands-free. For an engineer working on a space station I can see why this is useful. They made it unbelievable with too many folds. Couldn't it split into maybe three pieces and lie flush against his back instead of folding up like a fucking origami swan?

The only advantage I can think of for the self-assembling helmet is fast/easy on-off, and that's really just a creature comfort.

Unless, of course, you're performing a delicate maintenance operation and you need your helmet off to be able to see what you're doing, and then the section of the ship you're working on suddenly depressurizes and you need to get your helmet on and airtight in less than a second.

Or maybe you're talking to your fellow soldiers, and you want them to be able to see your face, and then you start getting shelled by the Russians and need your helmet to detect the initial shockwave put itself back on automatically before the shrapnel hits.

Of course, if that's the case, why don't you just design a helmet that lets you do the delicate maintenance and talk to your troops without having to take off?

The necromorphs being able to instaneously transform is a bit silly and unrealistic, but since the first one did it, the second had to as well or else go with different enemies altogether. So call it a flaw of the series, but DS2 had to have it and in fact DID slow it down a bit by including a transformation sequence.
As for horror, I think it works despite being genre fusions as you consider it. All the actual horror comes from the atmosphere and every part of the game where the enemies are absent anyway. The enemies are not the horror.
As for the helmet: depends on the suit. On the construction suit, I do think it's a bit unnecessary but see the next reason and keep in mind that they can't have helmets doing too many different animations. On the riot/security suits, think "cop that may or may not need to visit a vacuum." That helmet is designed to automatically create a perfect vacuum seal and only needs to withstand melee damage, and needs to be removeable by a cop carrying riot gear. As for the military suit, think about it, a lot of military gear is designed with armor but its priority is wearer mobility, therefore sacrificing some armor. The "military" Advanced Suit is a combat-ready space suit that does have extra bulk for armor but primarily serves as the above helmet. Being bulletproof isn't the primary concern, being impact-resistant is, which is aided by the articulation points having some give. Also, how is being bulletproof by virtue of armor plate going to protect you from laser weapons, which the military clearly has access to? As for putting undue weight on the neck, both the front AND the back(yes it does split in half, not just going down one side) halves of the helmet store on the TORSO. The chest compartment and the back compartment.

There you go. I may have nitpicked a little, but so did you. But at least I looked beneath the surface.

Because once again, realism and practicality are totally what games like Dead Space aim for. And the game is action with a horror tone. They intended it that way. And saying that RE4 did any better job of horror is utter bullshit.

Labcoat Samurai:

Second, regarding the helmet thing, it's true that it would offer less protection, but modern engineers wear plastic hardhats on site. How much protection do you really need? And you're not going to misplace it, so that's nice. The fact that it's used in combat is sort of an unhappy turn of events that they probably weren't planning for when they designed the thing.

Isaac's helmet however is intended for space, where overall integrity is more important than the modern building site.

BrunDeign:
He really doesn't think the folding helmet is believable? It's entirely believable. IT'S THE FUTURE. THEY CAN MAKE SHIT UP AND MAKE IT MAKE SENSE.

And does Yahtzee even comprehend how many great moments would have been ruined if Isaac had to take his helmet off manually and then hold it with his hands? That "eye scene" you mentioned? Where the heck is Isaac going to put his helmet when that's going on? Several quick time events wouldn't have worked (or had the urgency) if Isaac's helmet was just a detachable piece.

Also, about the transformation thing with Necromorphs - he does realize that when he says all the negatives about it, the VERY FIRST SCENE does everything he says the game doesn't do? Skin resists, you see the poor guy's pain when the transformation takes place on a living person, etc. This is textbook bad ranting Yahtzee. I expect better of you sir! I am disappoint.

Also I agree the the Spanish is VERY iffy in RE4. To borderline stupid levels. It shows me how much 5 years of Spanish classes can ruin some parts of a game. "A la reloj!" Pretty sure that's the game designers' attempt at saying "To the ruler" but I think "reloj" is just the classroom kind of ruler, not an actual leader. "Al maestro" would have been more appropriate I think, or at least the correct way to say "To the master" if what I have is wrong.

Fail correction fail. Reloj is clock. They are referring to the clocktower.
Just thought you'd like to know.

I didnt like RE4. Its not resident evil anymore ):

OT: I think that Dead Space is a "Nu Horror". You know how they have the "Nu Metal" music? Ment for a newer generation of metal heads? Its the same thing with "Nu Horror" games.

I remember back when i would piss myself playing RE2. And not because it was dark. Not because the zombies were scary. But mostly because of the fact that it was something i had never expiranced before. You could hear zombies, but you couldent see them! Because of the horrible camera angles! It forced you to eather play smart and slow, or play reckless and hope for the best.

I cant think of a single moment in Dea-Spa 2 ((yes, thats what i call it. Because its a relaxing get away from other, rage enducing games.)) that freaked me out, made me jump, or unnerved me, beside the who eye and object not belinging there thing. ((Cross my heart and hope to die :D))

In short, its a new kind of horror game, for a new generation. Us "Veteran" video gamers have been through all the horror games. Weve seen theyer progression. And because of it, the newer ones just arnt as good. Because nothing is scarier then our memories of whats scary.

Also, my captcha was "Ramen abuse". That instantly makes my day.

MiracleOfSound:
'Well, is Dead Space 2 even trying to be a horror?'

It's a fair argument.

From what I saw it said pretty clearly 'I'm a great action shooter with some creepy parts!' The box says it's 'gruesome', not scary.

The tone throughout is action shooter with creepy elements. Yeah, if shifts from time to time, that's true.... but I would have thought Yahtzee would have an appreciation for pacing and dynamics, it would be boring to have the same tone through the whole game.

People argue over the meaning of Citizen Kane. Does that make it a bad film?

Judge it on what it's trying to achieve and doing well - being a great action shooter - not on what a Resi 4 did or what your expectations were.

.

Hey, it's my viewpoint, but I didn't have to say it! Thanks, Miracle! :)

PS what he said.

I disagree with your first point. Just because people don't agree doesn't necessarily make it a bad experience. What I take from a game is different than what you take from a game. It doesn't make the game worse.

I must agree with your helmet logic though. The suspension of disbelief doesn't mean a suspension of physics altogether. I have similar issues with breakable weapons in many cases. How is it that my samurai sword breaks after I kill a couple of zombies in Dead Rising?

XD that helmet-folding-up thing bothers me too. Yahtzee's deffinatly right about the scariness of Res4 verses dead space. The necromorphs should have been more human and unnerving, kinda like the splicers in BioShock

So Yahtzee felt the need to attempt to reinforce his stance on the first page, and then spends the second page ranting about something relatively meaningless like a fold-up helmet?

Can I ask, if you're bitching about how a helmet is "unrealistic" in a sci-fi game, shouldn't you be questioning other things, like interstellar travel, cracking a planet open to mine minerals, and various other common sci-fi elements?

This entire article really came off as being shrill and overly-fussy. I would suggest, Yahtzee, that you have your water-skis on, the ramp is ahead of you, and they have just released the shark...

The folding helmets are less for realism and more for cinematic convenience. It lets a character show his face (and thus, better portray his emotions) while keeping both hands free for any action the creators intend.

I do agree about that Resident Evil 4 credit sequence. That was the only part of the game I found to be even slightly unnerving.

rollerfox88:
Anyone got a link to the post credits RE4 scene?

It's not post credits. It's this slideshow thing that plays during the end credits.


It starts at 4:12.

The sole purpose of the collapsible helmet was to serve as eye candy for the trailers.

Seriously, I watched all of the Dead Space 2 trailers and all but one of them (the cheesy lullaby trailer) had a full three-to-four seconds of Issac's helmet assembling itself transformers-style over his face.

With a dramatic pause in the music, might I add, so we can appreciate the gravity of...Issac having to wear protective head-wear? Whatever.

Well I think it's important that Isaac is an engineer, his suit is also for that purpose not for fighting in the military.
As other people have already said, it works on its own, so in sudden dangerous situations, it can really come in handy, that you can rely on it, rather than you having to bother with it. Especially when necromorphs are running around everywhere - if you were talking with someone, holding your helmet, out of nowhere necromorph attack incoming, it could hit the helmet out of your hand, crush it, then crus your skull if your not fast enough.
So I think it's both practical and cool, I loved when I got a new suit and for the first time the new helmet equipped itself, you looked like you can now take on the next big thing coming.

Oh, and the argument that even if it's in the future, one part of the helmet would stop working eventually - I can only say that nothing is going to work forever, everything requires maintenance from time to time. In the game, they have giant planetcracking spaceships, and if humanity was able to create giant machines floating in space and ripping apart planets that are well QUITE F***ING BIG things - I think it's no surprise that such a helmet was put together.
Also considering you can get atleast four new suits progressing through the game, it means Isaac always has a new helmet every few hours, and if these things could just go wrong after using them brand new, folding it in 4-5 times between a couple of hours, I don't think it would be manufactured big time for engineers all around the universe.

---
Sincerely
Inuprince
Spokesperson for Space-engineers Safety Gear Association (SESGA) - writing to you from Titan Station

Damn Necromorphs! We have no one to produce for anymore .... they took our job!!! ... and our bodies ... help ...

I never thought of the whole ear-cutting off thing with the collapsible helmets. Although, that would probably be a gigantic piss-off for me since my hair would constantly get stuck in it every time I tried to put it on. That, and I have a large head.

I think the helmet thing is more a starting point for a larger argument (at least for me) when it comes to Dead Space.

Caveat: I haven't played the second game yet.

But what I remember about the first one is that the designers wanted to give you the kinds of tools that a space engineer would use. He isn't a combat vet (yet, sorta) and if he's not a warrior per se that strongly suggests at the use of non-gun weapons, or tools used as weapons. It has always bothered me that the engineer aspect of Isaac wasn't played up more and the tools he used did things like 'slow time' when a physical purpose (say, magnetism) could be used instead and would make more sense, to me.

But this also extends to the outfit; Isaac having a gauge on the back that registered his health was, to me a 'exactly' moment because a gauge that a co-worker could see that told other people what your oxygen was is just the kind of trick people would think up and use. Having a fold-down helmet doesn't make sense, if you're a space engineer. That sucker needs to be a kick ass piece of equipment because you die if it's ruptured or broken. Making it 'cool' instead of 'functional' defies the aesthetic that the game wants to set out, and THIS is where the tone of the game can start to be seen as breaking.

Think of the films that this game wants to emulate: Alien + Aliens, the Crazies, Event Horizon--these things, especially the good ones, don't do stuff that breaks their aesthetic because if they did, people would spot it and feel taken out of the story.

If Dead Space wants to play it straight, then every bit counts because horror is a very difficult genre to get it to work in. That doesn't mean it can't have jokes-black humor is a part of horror too-I'm just suggesting that there are some root problems with Dead Space that don't keep the game from being good, but might well prevent it from being great.

Spot on. Again.

The way everything (that doesn't make sense) is just swallowed these days is disturbing in itself.

Its hard for me to get "scared" in horror games. i might get startled or disturbed, but rarely scared. RE4 comes to mind as one of the first times I can recall being scared: the first time fighting an el Gigante. He is so big and imposing, all you feel like doing is running away. even if you shoot him, he absorbs your gunshots like your throwing skittles at him.

To me, thats horror done well. Making you (feel) helpless terrified of what you can possibly do to get out of your unfortunate situation.

I haven't played Dead Space 2 yet, but I loved the first one. It wasn't very "scary" but it did have its disturbing and "HOLY SHIT TENTACLE" moments, and it kept a creepy atmosphere of tension throughout. at least for me, it did.

Stammer:
I know it's a weird thing to suggest, but the haunted mansion level in Super Mario 64 was probably the most fun I'd ever had being frightened, just because the environment and atmosphere were well-placed and things were good at startling me.

I remember the scariest moment for me in a video game was playing the Twinkle Park level with Amy when you go inside the Hall of Mirrors. The music is so creepy.

My biggest problem with Dead Space 2 (and this is an issue with ALL games of it's ilk) is that it requires other media to understand completely.

By which I mean, who is Stross? In the game, he's just some guy. Why do I care who he is? Well, if you want to know the full story, watch Dead Space: Aftermath available now on Blu-Ray and DVD. Want to know the full story behind the Ishimura? The exciting prequel game, movie, and comic book all now available!

Look at Star Wars, or Alien, or any major film franchise. Notice how they have a bunch of novels and games attached to them, but they don't NEED them. They expand upon an already complete story, an already fleshed out universe, to provie extra story for those who are interested.

Videogames don't seem to get this.

You remember the last multimedia film? That crossed movie, music, comic book, and novel? It was Richard Kelly's Southland. Yeah, remember that one? If you do, remember how it was panned for it's incoherent storyline? Remember how it was because two thirds of the story was in other forms of media?

Dead Space 2 is basically Aliens minus the first act before they land. It just assumes that you've seen everything else and know "Oh, that's who Stross is" and "Oh, Nicole is dead, that's why Isaac is so harsh." Aliens let us simmer for an entire act, showing just how far Ripley's life had gone without her while she sat frozen. And it had an impact, because it was within a single well structured, coherent work.

Imagine if The Lord of the Rings movies started with The Two Towers, because you had to read the prequel novel Fellowship of the Ring, and finished it with the Xbox exclusive Return of the King? We'd think they were fucking nuts wouldn't we?

If games are art, then they need to stand on their own. They can't keep hiding behind other forms of media to overcome their own shortcomings. Because then you end up with this, games with no distinct tone or real guiding purpose beyond "because."

People may complain about Metal Gear Solid's convoluted storyline, jampacked with hours of cutscenes, but you can't deny that it is a fucking SOLID convoluted storyline.

Developers seem to be insistent on making games that are "cinematic" while forgetting entirely that films are judged as an individual work, not "good so long as you read the tie in novel."

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