Console Gaming

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Excellent! I enjoyed the read a lot!

Gaming to me is for 2 things which are very diverse 1 is the challenge! The one thing that i find in a game the most enjoyable is trying to master a certain skills to the near perfection and that being the only way to finish the game is to be a pro of that game! ie Mortal Kombat 1 & 2.

On the other end of the spectrum i love a great story and feeling apart of it and being compelled to find out what happens next, and in this situation i would much prefer for the game to flow rather be me hitting a wall which feels tedious.

So in regards to motion control vs non motion control i feel my competitive nature loves motion control! I have a Nintendo Wii and me and my mate always try and get the best times on the wii fit snowboarding its great fun!

But on the same page i wouldn't enjoy it being part of my rp games were i just wanted to get into the game with as little focus on whats happening in the world around me!

Ps - True Virtual Reality is coming ... eventually :)

Up until now, having an "epiphany" was something that MovieBob or ExtraCredits did, Yantzee had never really given me one.

But now, finally, Yantzee's said something so compelling and interesting I am going to have to log off and ponder it for a bit.

Yantzee:
A game with a button controller makes me more immersed than any motion sensor equivalent. I barely have to think about making small, unskilled, untiring finger and thumb movements, so my brain is virtually in sync with that of the main character in the game. It comes down just to reflexes. Peep the name of this very website; Gaming is about escapism, about living through someone else with a more interesting life. My body is free to relax on the couch while my mind goes off to save the universe. I LIKE that. That's how all my favourite games work. When you suddenly ask that body to sit up and take part then it pulls me out of the experience.

Having an "out of body experience" is what gaming is all about. I've never thought about how my body feels when playing Civilization 5 or Starcraft, as I am not "a body" when playing those, I am "an entity controlling things a body shouldn't be able to". I transcend the physical and live entirely in the intangible when playing those kinds of games.

Tactical Fugitive:
Cool. You guys should do a video talk show, with callers and all, discussing what's hot in the gaming world.

Great idea except for the fact that these are Writers debating, and not TV-Show hosts.
Planned observation and spontaneous creativity are diametrically-opposed things, and even if they rehearsed all their lines in the same way comedians do it, the viewer-calls would likely throw a monkey-wrench into the whole thing.

Don't believe me?
Check-out Yahtzee's trip to DC and you'll understand what I'm talking about.

I don't have anything to input really other then this is brilliant, a great read, and please please PLEASE dark overseers of the Escapist , make this a weekly.

ahh, the misguided art of giving out your opinions for money. the most envious of all positions in the known universe.

Neferius:

Tactical Fugitive:
Cool. You guys should do a video talk show, with callers and all, discussing what's hot in the gaming world.

Great idea except for the fact that these are Writers debating, and not TV-Show hosts.
Planned observation and spontaneous creativity are diametrically-opposed things, and even if they rehearsed all their lines in the same way comedians do it, the viewer-calls would likely throw a monkey-wrench into the whole thing.

Don't believe me?
Check-out Yahtzee's trip to DC and you'll understand what I'm talking about.

i don't think the point would necessarily be to have comedy. rather, it would be to have a sober discussion of what is going to happen in the future of games and the games industry. not to mention the potential for other, tangential subjects that will hold relevance to games in the future (yahtzee mentioned neural interfaces, james mentioned holodecks). the point of having viewers call in would be to have a discussion where arbitrary statements may come in and throw the discussion around.

entertainment does not have to be comedy to be entertaining.

so yatzee with "motion gaming sucks", moviebob jerking of nintendo for the n-th time and james, well I don't even see what his point was

theklng:

i don't think the point would necessarily be to have comedy. rather, it would be to have a sober discussion of [...]

A little-known fact, but Yahtzee is Rarely sober :P
...where do you think he gets all his pizazz?

Enosh_:
[...] and james, well I don't even see what his point was

He was holding-back and chillin' like always :D

Interesting read. I like Bob's approach, that motion controls could have some outlet for cheap, short, unhindered events. Using them for every action, though, becomes limiting. One aspect I can see them being useful for is dual-wielding something. Pistols, knives, axes, what have you--separate controls for each weapon, with separate cursors for aiming. I don't like the full motions, though, and I'm in agreeance with Yahtzee that they remove me from the game. I still play Zelda and Red Steel 2 sitting on the couch, for the most part, so I still flick the wiimote the desired directions, but I don't go for the full arm swing for a sword. For games like that, motion controls are fine, it feels more like I'm the one swinging the sword, all that. But for Donkey Kong and Metroid: Other M, the Nunchuk-less controller feels more natural, that I'm moving an avatar of myself across a two-dimensional area.

More Extra Consideration please!

Great stuff. Yahtzee makes a lot of sense once you look past the jokes and it's good to see another opportunity for him to do so. Big fan of EC as well so this is pretty golden.

Good job guys, although a little bit too agreeable considering you guys have quite different opinions on a lot of things 'a la gaming' (I watch each of your shows, including GameOverthinker) So I know you guys disagree a lot. Let's get the blood going and maybe a few harmless, fun insults eh? (yes, Canadian) Still, love this idea and it would be awesome to see more of these. Keep them coming, it's just an email or 2 come on!!!

This is actually pretty interesting. I hope there are more of these.

Also, we can declare at this point that James is the Idealist, Yahtzee is the Pessimist, and Bob is in between.

In TV Tropes terms, James is the Superego, Yahtzee is the Id, and Bob is the Ego.

Neferius:

theklng:

i don't think the point would necessarily be to have comedy. rather, it would be to have a sober discussion of [...]

A little-known fact, but Yahtzee is Rarely sober :P
...where do you think he gets all his pizazz?

little-known fact: a discussion can only be sober, because it never drinks. were you born yesterday? i mean, there's a pretty big distinction between using the word sober in relation to a discussion than to a person.

where do these people come from?

I've always thought what this would be like, my favorite Escapist contributors conversing with each other about the industry and stuff. And now it has been created!

Lemme just cross this off the list here....

Things I want to see

1) Kotor 3
2) Mt. Everest
3) A conversation between Yahtzee, Moviebob and James Portnow
4) A cockfight
5) A non-glitchy Oblivion game

This is a thing of which we need more.

On a side note: Is that a big theta in my captcha box?

The Holobands from the show Caprica would be the mountain top of gaming. How much time will pass before such things exist and are safe enough for the consumer market? Who knows? I'd guess 40 years. That will be an awesome day though.

Great discussion. I would have to agree with yahtzee on his final point. The pinnacle of gaming would be that in which we would be able to rely soley opon our minds for input. The possibilites for this would be endless.

Oh man this was like the escapist article equivelent of some kinda super fandom cross over or something. You guys should do more stuff together, makes for very interesting and entertaining material.

carnkhan4:
It's interesting how sci-fi gaming is divided between super-active holodecks and super-static gaming matrix style...

.. what he said.

We all want holodecks, but only so we can have sex with fantasy women. :)

The three people that make up my Trinity of Higher Level Gaming Discussion, together in a piece?
SIGN ME UP!
Really hoping this can be continued on bi-weekly at the very least. It seems to be getting only positive reviews from people here.
This just made my day!

I have one tiny bone to pick with MovieBobs example of the 1960's renaissance in film as a hopeful eventuality with games, and that's that the movie studios that were left were the big ones, and their livelihood was completely dependent on the industry. For gaming, outside of Nintendo, the other two competitors are arms of much larger corporations. I fear that if the game industry faces melancholy, like the film industry did, Microsoft and Sony will simply cut and run, leaving Nintendo holding the sack. And as much as I love Nintendo games, the company isn't very innovative, nor does it encourage innovation in those it helps publish *cough*Pokemon*cough*

go pull at a sci-fi con. I guarantee the girls there would be just as interested in doing it mail bikinis or star trek uniforms as you would be.

I can totally see this going somewhere in the future.

I mostly agree with Yahtzee on the Motion Control issue. Not a fan of it, and frankly, I simply didn't think that normal controllers were not 'immersive' enough.
But my biggest issue with the motion control conventions of today is exactly something that MovieBob defended... The Cursor. Now, maybe it's okay for menus to have a cursor and click on them, but I see so many Wii games having the cursor on screen all the time when it's not needed. And that's just extra HUD that clogs up the screen, and takes away immersion.

I'm not a fan of Dead Space, quite frankly, I thought the game was kind of boring. But the fact that it integrated the ammo and health bars right into the character and cleared up the screen, so there's no actual HUD was brilliant. That's what more games need to do. If you absolutely NEED to have a HUD, then fine. If you can get rid of it, then great. But what's the point in having a constant cursor in a game like Silent Hill Shattered Memories, where you don't even have a gun, and no means to aim and shoot? Or Resident Evil 4, which had a perfectly fine laser tageting system, that didn't need a giant crosshair reminding me that I'm not actually in the game, but just the guy with the controller.
If you say that motion controllers take us a step forward when it comes to immersion, then I say that those big annoying constantly present cursors take us two steps back.

Have to agree with Yahtzee yet again. I don't want to swing the bloody controller around to accomplish any in-game functions! When Nintendo added the Motion Plus to the Wii Remote I thought that maybe it would be a tad more bearable, that is until I played my 6 year old nephew in the Swordplay mini-game on Wii Sports Resort where he proceeded to frantically jump up and down with his controller, flailing his arms around like he had just won the lottery. Yes, he beat me with all the sugar-generated energy of a child that's had too many chocolates. Even with 1:1 motion ratio, it's still a broken piece of shit.

When I finally tried Kinect, I never felt more handicapped with a lack of control over my glitchy and lagged experience. Did not even have something to hold or a button to press, yes, I would like to just quit now, thank you. A mate of mine bought one of these devices and he was so excited as he feverishly squawked my ear off about it for days and how much fun he has. Were our friendship not closer, I would have promptly jabbed him in the throat because at least then I would be accomplishing such an action for real and not in a broken video game.

As for PlayStation Move, no. Never. I refuse to partake in such lollipop-like nonsense. The only thing making it slightly better than Kinect is that there's a controller to hold, that is until you remember that that makes it like the Wii controls and equally shitty.

Currently I think motion controls are like techno remixes of songs.They help make some songs so much more interesting but otherwise they get much more repetitive and exhausting

I agree primarily with Yahtzee - no need for motion control, but a bit with James on his counter - the potential of motion gaming hasn't yet been fully explored.

My rejoinder to 'why don't you like sports video games' has always been 'If you can actually do what they're doing in a game, put down the controller and go do it'. I'm not as flabby as Yahtzee imagines but I still can't jump 6' up a vertical wall and then wall kick another 6' ala Dante.

Valagetti:
Hands up who fully agrees with Yahtzee, yet again.

Yeah I did

*raises hand*

Awesome idea! Awesome outcome!

Is there any way we can put this into an audio format? I'd love to see them argue in that style more than reading it.

Granted, this was massively entertaining and insightful. I'm not surprised Yahtzee is the one to start up the conflict. :D

Mister Benoit:

drummond13:
I think this is a great idea. But why is Movie Bob a part of it? Can it just be Yahtzee and James?

Bob has a show over on www.screwattack.com called the GameOverthinker which is really awesome if you've never checked it out, the earlier episodes are on Youtube.

Seriously go check it out, if you like videogame relates rants they're awesome.

You mean that terrible, biased farce of a show?

Bob is good at reviewing movies but hot damn is he a fanboy.

Not to be an ass but did any of you who disagreed with Bob PLAY No More Heroes? I generally hate waggle but it was immensely satisfying in THAT game. It was also fun for a bit in Donkey Kong Country Returns. Like all gaming BOTH should be an option. There were times in NMH that the controls were frustrating to me and I wish I could map them differently. And I felt that way a LOT in DKCR. But those were specific actions that I didn't feel made sense in their context or simply asked for too many movements at once.

As an example I love the ground pound in DCKR. BUT I hate how you have to waggle to roll. Its such a precise movement it kills the momentum. I didn't like the Waggle for NMH Bike Jumps but for the kills it was GREAT and I wish it were incorporated into more games.

SilverUchiha:
Is there any way we can put this into an audio format? I'd love to see them argue in that style more than reading it.D

Seconded. This needs to be implemented NOW if possible. If they're going to talk about how lazy I am its an affront to have to read it...

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