Console Gaming

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(=Nemesis=):
Bother! Now we'll never see another one! Cuurrrse youuuu Francis...!!

Another person offered acceptable tribute later in the comments. I am also learning from my mistake, and will update the potential positive reinforcement in the next test.

SCIENCE!

What's that you say? More from my three favourite video contributors?

Awesomeness - let's have more of these. Next time, with less agreement! :)

Uszi:
Er, I wouldn't mind it if you guys made it longer.
Or continued this thread of conversation next week or bi-weekly in 4 page increments.

As it was, it did seem kind of cut-off arbitrarily.

Good point - it was ok as an intro, but seemed that the conversation was just getting started when it was suddenly over.

Also, was it just me or were the pages each surprisingly short?

Valagetti:
Hands up who fully agrees with Yahtzee, yet again.

Can't wait to see more of this.

I must say very briefly that if Bob is going to say that Nintendo's numerous games (many of which I enjoy) continue to get better because they build off previous changes, then he isn't really in the right to accuse all shooters (which I also enjoy) of being pointless repetition. It's not that I think all shooters are good games (plenty are steps backward, and I've decided to only buy every -other- CoD game that comes out), but I still think it's a bit hypocritical.

mikespoff:

Uszi:
Er, I wouldn't mind it if you guys made it longer.
Or continued this thread of conversation next week or bi-weekly in 4 page increments.

As it was, it did seem kind of cut-off arbitrarily.

Good point - it was ok as an intro, but seemed that the conversation was just getting started when it was suddenly over.

Also, was it just me or were the pages each surprisingly short?

I would agree with that as well...
I would prefer that they either do only 1 email per page, or a few more per page. The 1,sometimes 2 thing was a little disconcerting.

Or all of it on just one page to scroll through, but I wouldn't know if the Escapist supports that kind of setup.

Jjkaybomb:
It better be these three guys every week, because this was awesome to read!

You gotta be kidding this is a great opportunity to get a lot of different people involved who normally don't get to converse with other escapist staff and has the potential to expand to developers from video game companies.

Fearzone:
So it seemed there was some agreement here that consoles were flailing in a creative lull. For me consoles are a low-ball middle of the road gaming devices that are inferior to PCs for shooters and RTSs, and inferior to portables for just about everything else.

I don't think the primary threat to their continued success is their lack of innovation or the slow adaptation of motion controls, but the 3DS and the NGP. On portables we still see interesting design efforts in games, whose single-player experiences tend to last 60 hours, rather than 6.

My gaming PC remains a preferred internet browser to my iPhone, barely. My PS3 still makes a fine blu-ray player and PSN interface. My psp is what I've actually been playing games on lately, and it is pretty obvious we are seeing only the beginning of portable's potential.

While I do agree with consoles being stuck in a rut it seems like you're blaming that on them being consoles. I wholeheartedly disagree with that. The reason why we have such stagnant ideas on consoles is because of the designers and not the platform. Creativity isn't limited by the console. I'm sure that a lot of the game concepts that you enjoy on portable systems or the PC could be made into console games without really losing quality. Although I do agree with you that FPS's and RTS's work a lot better on the PC. You seem to be missing out on a lot of genres though. What about Shadow of the Colossus? Would that game even be close to as good if it were on the PC or the DS? I highly doubt it.

Anyways, I think I'm rambling there. OT I definitely enjoyed this debate. I can't say that I completely agree with anyone's opinions on motion controls though. Motion controls in theory are a great idea. If they could be executed well then I'm sure they'd be amazing, unfortunately that's where the problem lies. So far I've yet to see a system that impressed me. Motion controls should make you feel more immersed in the game, instead I just feel like my body has been turned into a giant inefficiant controller that doesn't do what I want it to. Another big issue is that the industry is failing to make games with them and instead is just making gimmicks. I have high hopes for motion controls but I think that the day when they will be able to be executed properly is still a long way away.

So yeah, hope to see some more of this in the future.

I'd love to see more of this. If all of the three guys were willing to put in the effort, it would be great to see a weekly "round-table" discussion. Hell, they've all got video series, why not do a weekly video- you could introduce a topic at the beginning and just let them all fight it out!

Ok, I know why not. They all have lives, and are probably busy with their own projects, but I'd be grateful if this continued.

On an unrelated note, I expected them to not agree so much. I always imagined Bob and Yahtzee, at least, to be diametrically opposed, since their tastes are so radically different.

Okay, now we have something good. This is truly a very informative segment to look into, especially since Yahtzee pushed for disagreements. Because of that, we now have a more fulfilling piece because it pushes people to really think about where they stand. I can't wait to see more.

That said, I can't say I agree with what Yahtzee thinks is the future for gaming: that is the neural interface thing. There are several things that hamper this as a possible future, with human beings themselves being the greatest hindrance.

Problem one: The tried and true cliche that is the mind hack. It could be way too easy to cross neurons with someone if this moved to multiplayer, or if someone could hack the technology. Someone could steal your identity to the point where they could actually be you. That in itself is a frightening, if not overplayed, concept.

Problem two: Our own maturity as a race. I'm thinking we're not ready for this sort of thing, especially if we've got people tormenting others over the net to the point where they commit suicide.

Problem three: Melding personas. We're talking becoming our playable characters to a frightening degree. This could lead to identity crises where the players may make like Adam West and think they are whatever video game character they were playing as. Of course, this is aimed at those already have trouble distinguishing between fantasy and reality as it is.

Well, anyway, now that I have that out of my system, I can't wait for the next installment.

Excellent idea and I hope it can progress at some point into a podcast type regular feature, perhaps with a rotating cast including not only the Escapist contributors but also the regular Escapist staffers. Text is good, but audio (even without any associated video to keep production time/cost down) is better. It sort of reminds me of the Question of the Week section of G4tv.com's weekly Feedback show (which, if you haven't watch it, is often excellent).

As for future topics, well the easy one that's getting a lot of discussion here on both the user and contributor end, is games as art (or, more specifically, can/should games grow to include more mature artistic themes and, if so, can they do it without somehow killing off the less mature, "fun only" games).

Tenmar:

Jjkaybomb:
It better be these three guys every week, because this was awesome to read!

You gotta be kidding this is a great opportunity to get a lot of different people involved who normally don't get to converse with other escapist staff and has the potential to expand to developers from video game companies.

I dunno, they mentioned the escapist staff specifically in the description. If it did extend to developers that would be cool, but if it remained within the staff itself, these three are the three I find the most entertaining and informative.

Oh man, I am fully behind this. Thanks, Escapist!

More please!!!
Pretty please.
With strawberries and chocolate on top... ^_^

This was insightful, interesting, and humorous. Please do more... ^u^

If they do one of these at this time every week i think i'll die a happy man.

Awesome, just awesome, more please!

Yes, yes, yes! This humble user approves.

More next week, definitely.

I agreed with everyone, in a way, regarding motion controls. When I want an immersive experience, I'll be happy to go with a motion control game that allows immersion without the usual "omg stupid motion controller not working" immersion-breaker. As for the escapism side, going with Yahtzee here.

I'm agreeing with Bob here. Motion controls can really bring you into the game if done right and used appropriately. I enjoyed this and hope to see more. Maybe one in video format.

After reading this, i am now convinced that Yhatzee will be among the first people to become a cyborg when the technology becomes available.

Btw it would be more interesting if this was a recorded conference call on scype or something. I don't care if they just put avatars over their faces, but i think it would make for a more interesting conversation.

Though i guess it would be hard to line it up, with Yhatzee in Australia and Bob and James live i don't know where.

Though i do have to disagree with Yhatzees opinion on motion controls. I would mimic link's movements it Twilight princess, When he went to finish a goon i would usually take a step forward and stab with him, then i would mimic that sword twirling thing he does at the end of a fight and pretend to sheath my wiimote on my back. Then when playing Call of Duty something or other (or was it Modern Warfare? Idk, some gritty brown "realistic" FPS) there would be scripted quick time events in some levels where someone would jump you with a knife. You had to pump the controller as fast as you could to wrestle with him. Honestly, after encounters like this i would be slightly out of breath and full of adrenaline. I thought it was a really great effect. I mean i felt like i had just wrestled with the guy and won.

Looks like there is a split market then, thous who like some motion controls in their games and those that don't. Or maybe Yhatzee is just old and set in his ways and doesn't want to learn a new control scheme :P

Is it me or does the Universe frequently implode at the hands of The Escapist?

Watch in a month we'll be getting our oil from plants, and our food from the... sky!

Please continue round table e-mail.

Why did this stop right when it was finally getting going? A mere three-minute conversation between these blokes isn't very interesting.

Not to sound like a fanboy, but I have to agree with Yahtzee.
I like motion controls when I'm with a few friends, as a laugh. But as far as escapism within games goes they couldn't do less to attract me. I want to feel immersed in the experience, and I find that hard to do with wankers cramp.

Anybody feel like suggesting/theorising any future topics? I personally would think that the FPS genre would be an interesting one. Moviebob's shown in his game overthinker series that he's no fan of the genre, while Yahtzee, as far as I can tell, is much more into it. James, I'm not sure about but if Extra Credits is anything to go by, he does seem fairly fond of Halo, which neither Bob nor Yahtzee are exactly crazy about. And conflict like that would be very fun to watch :D

Good, interesting and civilized. A nice idea, though I didn't feel like I completely agreed with any of the three. Maybe it's just because I enjoy console gaming as it is now.

re: Wii (as a happy Wii owner)

I find it funny that the Wii got nothing but flack for doing the cheesy motion controls while the Big Boy consoles did the flashy Hi-Def graphics. And now, the Big Boys are trying to catch up (I tried a Kinect, and it's like hanging a picture - little more to the left, you say? No, too far.. over to the right...) Blargh.

But what I like most about the Wii motion controls isn't the "one-to-one motion" (although I'll take a good Wii Sports Resort swordfight every now and then) - it's the fact that we got a proper light gun again. With FPS being the big fad right now, why aren't games taking advantage of this?

There MUST be more things like this on the Escapist.

Extra Consideration is to gaming journalism what the Avengers or Justice League is to Marvel and DC; they take some of the best and most interesting elements in their subject matter and not only put them together, but force them to interact. In the same way that Batman's grim cynicism contrasted against Superman's heroic optimism makes DC crossover events interesting, I believe that dialogue and conversation between the Escapist's elite critics (one could even call them videogame philosophers) will bring about even more fascinating insights into both the Triumvirate's thoughts on gaming and gaming itself.

That said, I think Fronzel and others bring up a good point: conversations between the three will be much more interesting if they are allowed/have the time to say more things. I was hoping that James would have more to say than two little blurbs, for example.

Good grief, if I could hear all three of those men talking on a video... it would be the Escapists own fangasm generator.

Valagetti:
Hands up who fully agrees with Yahtzee, yet again.

I rarely do but;

*raises hand*

I'm with Yahtzee all the way on this one. I'm afraid i don't see motion controls as more immersive. If anything, i feel it detracts from the experience. I don't want to wave my controller about and hope my avatar picks up on my vague commands and swings a sword or what have you. There are three stages to interaction. Thought, command, response. The user must be able to issue a command with minimal hassle to gain a fast response. With a button press, assuming the user is well-versed in gaming, the time taken to press the necessary button can be less than a second. But with wii-mote flailing, it can take up to one or more full seconds just to issue a command. This is unacceptable and takes you 'away' from the experience. It feels unresponsive. There's a certain zen-like nature that comes with traditional button controllers that you just can't achieve with motion controls. I do, however, think motion controls will become standard in future consoles and games as Moviebob says. I do not think it will replace traditional methods of control, however, and will be there as an optional extra / peripheral.

Great article / discussion / column / thingy, but please make it longer. As someone above me said, it came off as half transcribed and unfinished. Almost like no-one was really able to come up with a counter to Yahtzee's retort about motion controls not quite being as immersive as traditional control. I'd really like to hear some rebuttals on that. It would have been good to see more input from James, as it felt like he was drowned out by the debate between Yahtzee and Moviebob. I expected something more insightful or more substantial from him.

Korten12:
good read, does this mean we're getting more of this..?

I hope so, this has got to be the greatest thing I have ever seen on the Escapist (so far, get them all in a room together and we'll see)

Good concept. I can't wait to see future editions.

I'm gonna have to agree with Yatzee on this one. If you could transport all your psyche into the game it would render the most advanced and inmersive motion capture system useless.

Loved this article.

Still agree that physical movement reduces immersion.

great article but couldn't it go longer? wasn't much debating as i would like and it was getting interesting.

Innocence:
The only way this could be any better is if we heard them discuss it vocally.

Maybe even with animations that represent each of them.

(I may or may not be thinking of something in the same style as The Ricky Gervais Show.)

ProtoChimp:
Can't read this right now. So this is why God invented the bookmark.

Second all of these. I volunteer to provide some graphic inbetweening if needed.

HailtotheKing:
Please, in the name of mighty Zombie Jesus, make this a weekly segment! I already come to this site too much for my own good, but giving Yahtzee and Bob a column together? Now you're just trying to make me a slave.

ROFLWUT? The same reasons I joined The Escapist man...

Anyway, am I the only one who had the Terminator theme playing in the head with the sheer idea of having James, Yahtzee and MovieBob together? It's like a vortex of awesomeness.

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