Console Gaming

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Now THIS is a good idea.

Moar of this. NAO!

@Bob's comment of an all in one media device instead of a console. It's called a computer Bob, you use it for your work every day, way to totally miss that knowledge though.

Seriously, PC gaming is stagnant atm simply because everyone is happy to ape what already sells. With HD being the standard for both computers and TVs now your PC hooks to your monitor literally the same as it does to your TV, just need some game designers to point it out, incorporate the ability to use controllers which most major consoles already have computer ready USB controllers, and just come together and show the gaming world that the console is an out dated idea. Consoles are from when most people's computers were expensive dinosaurs their parents wouldn't let you touch, so game makers had to give the kids their own computer hooked to the TV.

In the tech savvy world of today most kids know how to upgrade parts on their PC, and your PC can easily run circles around all 3 consoles combined for the same price when you build it yourself. As is consoles remain due to fan boyism, and the unwillingness of PC game makers to stretch out and show that your Xbox is an expensive paperweight when compared to your computer.

Crap, I totally read that in their voices.... except James, sorry James!

Yahtzee was very informative as was James

Moviebob well...

That was a good read. Looking forward to more of these, and a great point about the creative peak of the last console generation. Hopefully we'll see another boom sooner rather than later.

As for motion controls: I like Bob's idea that it should really function as a mouse/extra button, as it's the best use of the style (like the use of the flashlight in Silent Hill: Shattered Memories and the batting/pitching in the Wii version of The Bigs). However, because the precedent is there for doing other actions with those controls, I don't think a lot of developers will be satisfied programming the technology for such limited function, and will try to make 'more use' of it, which leads to a lot of unnecessary waggles (a lot of the other motion control moments in Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, or most Wii games for that matter). Sony and Microsoft jumping on the bandwagon three years after the fact isn't helping that format find it's place within the larger structure of gaming.

This was the greatest idea in the history of everything. Ever.

Great conversation and I can't wait until the next one!

Love this debate styled stuff, but i ultimately agree with yahtzee on this. We play games of sports because we would rather do that then play the sport itself (well, I personally dont play sports games wither...) but you see my point.

"If you ask me, the hypothetical zenith of gaming technology is direct neural interface - no body to hamper you and your brain is in whatever you want it to be in. Plus it leads to existential uncertainty, which could be entertaining."

This

This was awesome! I really like that you've gathered together some real gaming thinkers, both politic and less politic. ;-) I hope this becomes a regular thing, because I'd love to see more debate between these three, and other contributors to the Escapist besides =)

Somehow double posted. Actual post is down there.

Simply delightful, I fully support this column

anyhow I feel the need to concur with Bob on Motion Controls, it's the little things that I like, like steering or shaking to extend a jump.

Honestly when I was kid playing on the SNES I would often shake the controller when making a jump, or turning it when playing Super Mario Kart. Motion Controls have made made it so that these compulsions actually impact what's happening in the game, and I think that's great.

This content has lots of potential. I want to see more of it.

OT: I think Yahtzee just has his panties in a twist over motion controls, and I've thought that for a while now. There's nothing intrinsically immersive about motion controls or standard controllers. It depends on the game, and it helps if you're not predisposed toward another control mechanism to begin with.

I loved this. The minds behind the shows that keep me coming back to the Escapist getting together for this kind of discussion is something I think is important in the network's progression. Moar lyk this!

Going to have to be the rare dissenter on the idea in its current form.

As it is there are too many voices effectively shouting "I have an opinion!" "Me too!" with a little clumsy direct interaction. The concept would work better with two people having a kind of debate instead of the echo chamber it is now.

Yahtzee is great as the voice of the people (even if he pisses them off most of the time.)
James is great as the voice of the industry.

Let the two of them get a good dialog going and I think something really worthwhile could be generated. Leave Moviebob to everything else he does for the site.

It's...it's...beautiful...
We better get some follow up, another topic.
Good read. Looked long, but it was worth it.

Valagetti:
Hands up who fully agrees with Yahtzee, yet again.

Both hands are up here.

I am completely with Yahtzee on the motion controller issue. This is a nice bit - I hope we see more of these conversations.

So... yeah. You may have just created one of the greatest written article/discussion idea's ever. Keep it up!

Wonderful. I hope this continues.

This is something I've been thinking about for a long time, Yahtzee, MovieBob, and the extra Credits guys getting together and doing something. I was thinking like a mega-crossover or something, but I like this idea, too. If only I heard James Portnow talk more, otherwise I could envision what they're saying perfectly in my heads!

Seriously, I can't wait to see more!

This is good stuff, all this site needs now is a weekly or even monthly podcast with talks like this and or even just random discussions and I would have every bit of gaming news I could ever want in one simple place.

So far, The Escapist equals best gaming commentary one the net.

This is the best thing ever. I can now die happy

LZeroK:

What? I'm speechless, besides nobody is going to read this.

I did, granted I read every comment in areas like this. =P

James, Bob, and Yahtzee, all of you wrote well, and provided insightful commentary. I hope to see more of this if possible.

Me likey! I enjoyed all arguments, but MovieBob was off his rocker with saying the WiiMote shake was actually a good thing.

Lets replace sore thumbs with Carpel Tunnel shall we?

Wow, this article was extremely well-written and well-thought out, and it was generally an engaging and entertaining read. Great job, James, Bob, and Yahtzee, you guys are all amazing! PLEASE, Escapist, make this a regular thing!

Wow - three of the most entertaining and illuminating minds on the 'net talking about the things they and I love. It's like watching all your favorite sports teams and players at the same time... and having everybody win!

How did nobody think of this before?!

I defiantly agree with Yahtzee. The standard controller feels, to me, like i'm more immersed in the game. I think to myself ill move to cover here then pop up and shoot requires limited motion when using the simply press a to enter cover then hold left trigger and shoot with right trigger seems more logical. It, for a start, doesn't need as much brain power. It's easier to relax on the couch with a standard controller then having to preform the movements. By brain power I don't mean it makes you an idiot or anything like but it's easier to become fully involved in a story when you don't have to think about the action required to preform a task.
The brain power should go into thinking about the game itself and not the controls.

I also agree with James. The market of motion control has potential but i don't think it has enough. The kinect (not being a fan boy, I don't have a kinect) most likely has the most potential. The camera is a great idea. I read in a magazine article about the kinect when it was originally called project natal (E3 2009). They said imagine coming home to have your Xbox recognize you. It says hello and how was work. It then asks are you ready to get on live and play Battlefield and how your Xbox kindly downloaded the new map pack for you.
a situation like that is what I call potential. That's AI technology but a new advancement that could change gaming forever. Yet it all started with a simple motion camera.

Yahtzee:
My body is free to relax on the couch while my mind goes off to save the universe.

I agree 100% with this statement. It's the reason I've never liked motion gaming, I've been through a whole day of school, I want to relax, flailing around is not relaxing.

I absolutely agree with the notion that gaming is collapsing under it's own weight. 15 years ago, it was perfectly possible for a bunch of dudes to create a playable, fun, "AAA" experience from scratch. Up until 2009, Super Mario Bros was the best selling video game EVER, and it was made by ten guys.

Nowadays an AAA title, even a fairly simple sequel, like a new CoD game, will take loads of money, time, and effort. You can't just have a good idea, a few friends and lots of coffee anymore. You need investors, publishers, marketing, legal advisors, and a good few years. If you decide to code your own graphics engine, get ready to push the release back at least a year.

I think it's most noticeable on the PC. Games are getting rushed, their release versions are sometimes hideously bugged, even unplayable. MMO's are the worst offenders, often getting released way ahead of schedule, riddled with bugs, and lacking enormous amounts of content. "We shall patch it later", say the devs, while scraping the last two coins from the bottom of the money jar.

The industry will grow bigger and bigger, production values reach new heights, especially as technology advances. I'll be amused to see whether or not we'll reach a point where every AAA title will take 10 years, and 500 million dollars, to make. Or will the bubble burst before that, leaving us with current indie devs, who will either lead us to a new land, or start the cycle again?

This is awesome stuff. But it ended at the best part! I was hoping to see MovieBob's Re-Rebuttal to Yahtzee's last mail. :(

Oh well, can't look a Gift horse in the mouth. If I could.....I would ask to have them all flown to North Carolina to have a Super Special Live stream event. That'd be ridiculously swell.

What a great idea, my three favorite escapist contributers having a debate. Maybe those 5 should start their own game company?

surprised that bob didn't bitch about Halo

"Beautiful. Could not agree more with Yahtzee about the Wii remote controls. All they've ever done is hurt my wrist and frustrate me. But playing with an Xbox or Playstation controller means little to no physical distraction from the immersion you're trying to experience."

I do not particularly enjoy the flailing of the Wii remote when it is out of context, but I have seldom had any occurrence in my gaming history where I wasn't enjoying the Wii remote. My guess it is my flexibility that enables me to elude this problem. This is not what I wanted to talk about though.

I want to talk about how the POINTER is amazing. I rarely play any games on the Wii that don't require a pointer in some sense. Elebits is an enjoyable game for example. The already mentioned Metroid Prime Series well although great and I have played all 3 only the last one was on the Wii I didn't buy the whole series again just for motion controls although I wonder if it is good.

Yahtzee is right, insofar that he believes games are forced to include a "Random Wii Waggling Mote Move". Yeah but as I mentioned before I never had a problem with this. His talk on 1-to-1 interface I couldn't agree with more (the being the best way to interact with a game). Here are my thoughts: Although gaming controllers like the Gamecube Controller and Classic Pro are very much more standard controls with their style and ability to be closely interactive, I think being able to place a cursor that allows you to turn is far superior to the analog stick. Seriously, when I would try to play Golden-Eye or Black Ops, I just could not use those controls; they are just too unfocused and unspecific. I like the fluidity of the pointing.

Now I have played the entire call of duty series available on the Wii plus the Big Red One on the Gamecube, as have I played the entire Metroid Prime Series. I have got to say, Motion Controls are great, if we only speak on "pointers" otherwise... It gets messier. I do really like the reloading is required by hitting the nunchuck. This was particularly effective in playing RE: Umbrella Chronicles and HOD: Overkill. I played RE4 on both systems: GCN and Wii and it were much better on the Wii.

I particularly enjoyed slapping the back of the Wii Zapper in Umbrella Chronicles, God that was fun! Smack. Also I loved tossing the zapper in between turns and the fact that I had 2 of them made it awesome to dual wield them. There is a lot of stability in that. You can snipe so much easier in Black Ops with a Zapper but the controls are all shit so don't bother using it (unless you want to).

You know what game I really liked that I don't have any more: Wii Play. The tank section was great to play with my cousin but aside from that. The shooting aspect was so much fun using 2 remotes. I was coordinated enough to do it. Lots of fun to be had using 2 remotes. I really imagine using them while playing zombies on the Black Ops, but it's a bummer. They should use that more.

Also why is it that the Wii always gets the stripped down versions?! Sonic Unleashed: Stripped Down from the PS3 version (from what I could tell on looking a friend of mine). Also Force Unleashed: Stripped Down from the PS3 Version that I could see from same friend. Why? COD WAW never had the zombie feature; COD BO has 1 level, that's it. So when I hear people (Yahtzee) talk about it I think, gee sure wish that was true and was the case for me. Examples: In sonic you don't get to walk through the over world it's just menu based, wow was really looking forward to that. In force unleashed when you stop the giant ship: also looking for it never saw it. Yeah it gets me too how I always seem to catch the best parts at that one friend's house right?

You know Yahtzee was right, the party-aspect of games like GH3, GH4, RB1 and Wii Sports / Resort and others that I can't think of at the moment are definitely the target audience of it. Its way fun to play these games in big groups but their single player is lacking a lot.

On a side note, I watched the Oscars for the first time just to see how right MovieBob really was. Wow. Spot On fella save maybe a few (but who's counting?).

"I'm putting my foot down. You've officially put too much awesome in one place on the internet. Turn back now before the can of worms is completely open! AAAAAAAGH!
OT: I really do like this kind of open discussion. It reads like a really intelligent, quite insightful forum debate, and I approve. Now, if this kind of civility could infect forums everywhere...."

I should also note that these three people all coming together to talk is awesome, wow, this is definitely a combination like no other. I am so Grateful for this combination.

James, and the Extra Credits Crew, How do we demand for better games? The last one I bought was COD BO because well I haven't' had the money to buy any other ones yet. Oh I should mention I've been playing a lot of Dungeon Explorer Recently. It's so messed up all the facts people have posted on the walkthroughs and such they don't have any numbers. So I've been working on numbers for the spells and formulas and time trials for running speed Its looking nice but I have a feeling it might be wasted.

This reminds me of when I made my own guide for the Obscure: Aftermath game. That was a nice game, about the only horror game I played save SH: Shattered Memories. That had really nice atmosphere, how come it felt short and why weren't there co-op or shooting aspects, oh well, that's horror for you. Obscure was great by the way, played that game twice, the stuff after the credits is nuts, how long is that game (laugh out loud).

This whole business with FPS Shooters coming off the unreal engine, I guess is sad? I really enjoyed Unreal tournament 2003 Demo, 2004 and III. The game is very fun to play and the maps were very nicely made. Vehicle Combat is a blast. Man I haven't' played them in a while, I should pull it back out.

As for Real Time Strategy Games, YAHTZEE, Don't review SC2, just play through the single-player parts, the campaign and the challenges and try out the User-Map-Settings Games. I don't have any record against other players on my account because I don't like playing the RTS part of the game. The single player is great Last time I played I was toward the end, last mission I think on hard mode. Playing it for the Third time by the way last time I was though.

Man Warcraft 3 is probably my favorite game even though I don't play it. I spent so much time making maps. God the RTS factor of it, not at all never was very fun. BUT all those maps I made so many years of them I enjoyed making them a lot. Starcraft Brood War was good too though but not as good map wise. SC2 I've dabbled but not as extensively into the map making as I have in the past. Starcraft 64 was fun.

I never did have any good games for the N64. No Ocarina of Time, No Golden-Eye, ANY Banjo Kazoo, any Starfox, Etc. I did play Gauntlet so scratch that first statement I guess. You know what good games were: Geist, Resident Evil 4, Super Smash Brothers Brawl, Metroid Prime 1 and 2, Gauntlet Dark Legacy, Phantasy Star Online Episodes 1 AND 2. Melee I meant, not brawl. I have Brawl now, still. I t was a decent game; we don't play it anymore though.

"I approve of this.
Please make this weekly! (:"

"Good read, does this mean we're getting more of this..?"

Totally, Make it weekly, Mondays we have the collaboration of these guys and their blogs, what else are they up to the rest of their lives? [Ha I kid, I know they have lives] It would be a joy to read these columns on a weekly basis.

Do you guys know if Yahtzee ever played Luigi's mansion? I heard it was awesome. Twilight Princess was fun, the Shooter for it was too, I really enjoyed the Ranger missions those were great fun to be all crazy macho like gunning people down while moving, and it was one of those things where they hadn't done of a lot of it yet on the Wii. Move and shoot stuff. You know what I liked Red Steel better than Red Steel 2. I think it was the story mostly, that and it had multiplayer. Oh it was the locations too, that creepy amusement park-ish level starting in the cabin and stuff that was a fun level.

This reminds me of Travis Touchdown in No More Heroes, a game I borrowed once, Good game. I liked the story. I liked how the second time around was a little different: Different cards to collect, A new final boss, but yeah Kind of wish they would make a Grand Theft Auto for the Wii I played it at the house of the guy I borrowed the No more heroes from. Half an hour of one chase with multiple cars and it was crazy fun. Sandboxes are great aren't they?

I should rap up with saying that I thought the creativity peak of last generation might just be true. Bummer right dude?

I want to see more of this on the site - really fantastic; I'm hooked already!

I mostly agreed with Bob in the sense that the Wiimote and motion controls have a lot of wasted potential and I was thinking the exact same example, Metroid Prime Trilogy have the very best FPS controls for the system, going back to moving Samus with a single stick while I have to press down a specific button to "aim" was pretty archaic at best.

With Prime Trilogy, instead of having a button pressed, you just simply move your wrist to whatever direction you want, you still have lock-on feature, but that's useful for harder battles. Also, the visor/weapon changing system was pretty nifty with the Cube controller; it's even better with the Wiimote. Just press a button, move your cursor to either up, left or right, I loved it.

Yahtzee have some good points too, but I agreed mostly to MovieBob.

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