Console Gaming

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Tactical Fugitive:
Cool. You guys should do a video talk show, with callers and all, discussing what's hot in the gaming world.

good call, i'd love to see something like that too. there's alot of knowledge in that room and answering reader's questions would be great!

Escapist has just created the holy trinity of gaming... brilliant!!

Just amazing. This website already had so many insightful and awesome things, and now the best of it is in one place. Bravo Escapist.

Now if we can weaponize these three and fire them into the heart of the gaming industry, all the things they've been screaming for years might actually happen.

ThongBonerstorm:

Tactical Fugitive:
Cool. You guys should do a video talk show, with callers and all, discussing what's hot in the gaming world.

good call, i'd love to see something like that too. there's alot of knowledge in that room and answering reader's questions would be great!

The thought of those three making their own podcast just made me pee a little...

More of this please. And you can all have cake for dinner because you did good.

This is awesome! Please make more of these!

I kind of like this, please serve us more :D

Best new concept for a (hopefully) weekly/fortnightly piece in a long time.
Torn between the sides of for and against.

1. Actually doing things ala hollow-deck would be amazing.

2. I agree that the immersion is often hampered by the motion in most current titles (thus we need some fresh thought in the motion department IP development. Immersion has to be possible imo)

3.Games are for fun. Not always immersion. I have, albeit few times, had as much or more fun with some Wii Sports than I have with some objectively superior triple A title. So I'm all for motion in moderation.

Definitely agree with James about the Move and Kinect being dead ends.

The Move was doomed from the start, the PS3 is pretty hardcore orientated and motion control just doesn't fit (though i'd be interested in how killzone 3 pulls it off). Plus they came what? 3 years after the Wii with an identical system, add that to the cost of the console and the Wii's sizeable library and new buyers are always going to pick the wii.

Kinect will probably die as a gaming device, it's not as well tuned as it's competitors and will always struggle from motion pick-up. Again the price and lack of decent games means that new buyers will look at the Wii and most current owners are more inclined to hardcore games and see no need for kinect (and i cant see it being used as in KZ3).

However i would say that that when kinect gaming stops MS will make a deal with a computer company and use the hacked code to integrate the system into PC's. The technology is too expensive for MS to waste it solely on gaming and the potential is huge.

Move on the other hand is only really useful in gaming so once the honeymoon ends it's going the way of the dodo.

*Droooling*

"Ahh"

more of this please.

i could have read 10+ pages of this.... i felt it ended just as it was getting good. i know you all have a lives and MANY other project.... but <3 <3 <3 <3

Wow, James' opinions are a lot less grating when not voiced by a chipmunk...

Overall, I wholeheartedly agree with Yahtzee on the motion controls. Even minor shaking of a control. Useless.

escape you've come close to collapsing the universe before...but this is pushing it...

I love it...its an intelligent conversation even yahtzee doesn't swear which is refreshing in this context. Escapist keep making things like this...the more mature and intelligent conversations there are about games the more the medium will be respected.

I think this is a great idea. But why is Movie Bob a part of it? Can it just be Yahtzee and James?

If this becomes a regular thing I will dedicate my life to bettering society.

the Interactivity in games needs to be subtle . that's why motion controls have a hard times ahead of them .

While I agree with Yahtzee... I agree with Bob and James too... Some times I want to sit back, get drunk and murder space pirates with really big guns, but... I'm also in fairly decent shape and could probably survive a couple hours of full immersion (motion controls) Gears of war, chainsawing people in half and mud hole stomping skulls.

I feel like the unbeatable argument is Yahtzee's though as he mentioned the immersion factor of moving to play lacks with ever important sensory feed back. It would certainly take me out of the game when I go to saw someone in half but feel nothing but air under my chainsaw.

This feature was awesome. I want more of these :)

NaramSuen:

ReiverCorrupter:
There is a diochotomy underlying this debate that Yahtzee just touched upon lightly in his last reply:

The division between a 'GAME' and 'VIRTUAL REALITY'

In a game, the gamer is conscious of the fact that he is controlling the avatar. In virtual reality the gamer IS THE AVATAR. Now granted we haven't really seen virtual reality yet, but that's exactly what the Wii is moving towards. Why go to the gym to play racquetball when you can do it in your own home. In this scenario, the gamer REALLY IS playing a VIRTUAL VERSION of racquetball, NOT a SIMULATION of racquetball.

Will VR kill normal gaming? I don't think so. People who play Star Craft are still going to play Star Craft. They're conscious that they're playing a game, and furthermore, they don't care about feeling like they're "in the action," quite the opposite in fact.

Thus I see the gaming community going in two directions. One will the the VR simulators for casual gamers that will be part of the family entertainment system (i.e. it will also provide netflix, TiVo, internet, all connected throughout the house). The hardcore games will come on consoles.

PC gaming will be die because the PC will die. Well... it won't die, it'll just be spread throughout the house. The PC gamers will just move over to consoles, and the console will probably have keyboard accessories etc, so it'll work more or less like a PC.

The consoles will really be attachments to the integrated home system, that allows one to use it for the more hardcore games.

TL;DR version: technology will integrate such the lines between hardware will blur completely, thus making the terms 'PC' and 'Console' rather obsolete.

Those are my predictions.

I think that you have eloquently put something into words that has been bouncing around my skull ever since the Wii came out. Part of the Wii's success is due to the fact that it is selling virtual reality experiences, not necessarily "video game" experiences. I think that there has been a significant portion of the population waiting for games to deliver just such an experience and then can get something approaching it on the Wii.

However, just as you see the PC getting swallowed up into an as-of-yet-unnamed much larger integrated system, I see no reason that consoles would not go this route as well. If the PC will get reduced to a keyboard, then what is stopping the console from being reduced to a controller? If download-only becomes the standard medium of the gaming industry, then a physical console no longer makes any practical sense.

Well, that's basically what I think will happen. The console/PC/gaming system will just be a hardware install for the home computer network. The only physical thing you'll deal with will probably be a controller.

My whole theory is that the middle class will start getting integrated home computer networks that connect everything in the house. We're actually already seeing it happen, but it won't be for another decade or so that it becomes a standard thing for American households. We'll see it in Japan first. Sony will probably be the first one to pioneer it. The entire household will have one central mainframe somewhere in the house that will allow access to all the connected screens, etc as well as all the other household electronics. We already have stuff like this that allows you to adjust the AC remotely and turn off the oven, it'll just keep expanding.

Good discussion, but it falls a little flat for me. I bought a ps3 because i saw how beatiful, engaging and immersive gaming had become. Sure you're going to have mainstream titles that drive the industry economically...but don't most forms of entertainment suffer from this? Part of it is just cause I actually really am excited about the games coming out this year, more so than last year which I wasn't sure was possible. I mean, come on: Portal 2, LA Noire, Infamous 2, Uncharted, Skyrim. Granted, a lot of those are sequels, but sequels are one thing gaming does so so well (room for another discussion there). I mean, right?

It's too bad this devolved in to a argument over motion controls. I guess that might be (sadly) indicative of the future of consoles.

I have to side with Yahtzee on that argument though. I'd much rather hit a button than have to stand up and actually preform the same physical task that is happening on screen. I find that yanks me out of the immersion as well, especially since motion controls are so imprecise and error-prone. I also feel like an f'ing goofball violently shaking a controller around to make some action happen on screen.

ReiverCorrupter:

NaramSuen:

ReiverCorrupter:
There is a diochotomy underlying this debate that Yahtzee just touched upon lightly in his last reply:

The division between a 'GAME' and 'VIRTUAL REALITY'

In a game, the gamer is conscious of the fact that he is controlling the avatar. In virtual reality the gamer IS THE AVATAR. Now granted we haven't really seen virtual reality yet, but that's exactly what the Wii is moving towards. Why go to the gym to play racquetball when you can do it in your own home. In this scenario, the gamer REALLY IS playing a VIRTUAL VERSION of racquetball, NOT a SIMULATION of racquetball.

Will VR kill normal gaming? I don't think so. People who play Star Craft are still going to play Star Craft. They're conscious that they're playing a game, and furthermore, they don't care about feeling like they're "in the action," quite the opposite in fact.

Thus I see the gaming community going in two directions. One will the the VR simulators for casual gamers that will be part of the family entertainment system (i.e. it will also provide netflix, TiVo, internet, all connected throughout the house). The hardcore games will come on consoles.

PC gaming will be die because the PC will die. Well... it won't die, it'll just be spread throughout the house. The PC gamers will just move over to consoles, and the console will probably have keyboard accessories etc, so it'll work more or less like a PC.

The consoles will really be attachments to the integrated home system, that allows one to use it for the more hardcore games.

TL;DR version: technology will integrate such the lines between hardware will blur completely, thus making the terms 'PC' and 'Console' rather obsolete.

Those are my predictions.

I think that you have eloquently put something into words that has been bouncing around my skull ever since the Wii came out. Part of the Wii's success is due to the fact that it is selling virtual reality experiences, not necessarily "video game" experiences. I think that there has been a significant portion of the population waiting for games to deliver just such an experience and then can get something approaching it on the Wii.

However, just as you see the PC getting swallowed up into an as-of-yet-unnamed much larger integrated system, I see no reason that consoles would not go this route as well. If the PC will get reduced to a keyboard, then what is stopping the console from being reduced to a controller? If download-only becomes the standard medium of the gaming industry, then a physical console no longer makes any practical sense.

Well, that's basically what I think will happen. The console/PC/gaming system will just be a hardware install for the home computer network. The only physical thing you'll deal with will probably be a controller.

My whole theory is that the middle class will start getting integrated home computer networks that connect everything in the house. We're actually already seeing it happen, but it won't be for another decade or so that it becomes a standard thing for American households. We'll see it in Japan first. Sony will probably be the first one to pioneer it. The entire household will have one central mainframe somewhere in the house that will allow access to all the connected screens, etc as well as all the other household electronics. We already have stuff like this that allows you to adjust the AC remotely and turn off the oven, it'll just keep expanding.

It sounds like we are pretty much on the same page. I'd just hate to see what happens if the mainframe breaks down. I have visions of Brazil running through my head.

it sure was fun reading each entry in their author's respective voices, switching it up all the time. except james's, which i had to read in daniel's fake voice. but that was pretty cool too.

This was a great idea and it ended with a great email debate

Honestly? I fully expect "motion controls" to be the differentiation between consoles and the "plays videogames" gadgetry that's Bob is predicting. That said, I can't help but feel the "plays videogames" gadgetry will just play iOS-level stuff, and your deep RPGs and RTSes may become extinct (or the preserve of PC gaming).

I suggest that they have a talkshow or podcast! I demand such! :D

NaramSuen:

ReiverCorrupter:

NaramSuen:

I think that you have eloquently put something into words that has been bouncing around my skull ever since the Wii came out. Part of the Wii's success is due to the fact that it is selling virtual reality experiences, not necessarily "video game" experiences. I think that there has been a significant portion of the population waiting for games to deliver just such an experience and then can get something approaching it on the Wii.

However, just as you see the PC getting swallowed up into an as-of-yet-unnamed much larger integrated system, I see no reason that consoles would not go this route as well. If the PC will get reduced to a keyboard, then what is stopping the console from being reduced to a controller? If download-only becomes the standard medium of the gaming industry, then a physical console no longer makes any practical sense.

Well, that's basically what I think will happen. The console/PC/gaming system will just be a hardware install for the home computer network. The only physical thing you'll deal with will probably be a controller.

My whole theory is that the middle class will start getting integrated home computer networks that connect everything in the house. We're actually already seeing it happen, but it won't be for another decade or so that it becomes a standard thing for American households. We'll see it in Japan first. Sony will probably be the first one to pioneer it. The entire household will have one central mainframe somewhere in the house that will allow access to all the connected screens, etc as well as all the other household electronics. We already have stuff like this that allows you to adjust the AC remotely and turn off the oven, it'll just keep expanding.

It sounds like we are pretty much on the same page. I'd just hate to see what happens if the mainframe breaks down. I have visions of Brazil running through my head.

Or worse, 2001: A Space Oddysey

"I'm afraid I can't do that Dave."

So let me get this straight, all three of my favorite shows on the Escapist just came together to make a column just talking about Video game stuff?

*escapist wet dream*

Great read, I'd love to see more of this.

As regards the discussion about motion controls, I definitely agree with Yahtzee that randomly shaking the controller for a finishing move or similar action that would normally just be mapped to a button is pretty much the opposite of fun (it made combat in the Wii version of Twilight Princess nigh-unplayable at points), although I do think that turning the controller in driving games ended up making for an excellent control scheme that I wouldn't mind seeing become standard. The best (and only good) minor integration of motion controls I've ever seen was in Folklore (originally Folk's Soul in Japan), where the sixaxis was used to tear the souls out of defeated monsters in order to capture them for later use. Wrestling and tugging them out of their bodies felt natural and intuitive, and definitely provided a better experience than just pressing a button. However, this only worked because the action you were performing in real life was incredibly sample and matched perfectly with what you were doing on screen, eliminating the cognitive disconnect random flailing usually creates. As far as using motion controls and a cursor to navigate menus, It is effective but I can mostly take it or leave it. Touch controlled menus have really spoiled me for most other interfaces.

ThongBonerstorm:

Tactical Fugitive:
Cool. You guys should do a video talk show, with callers and all, discussing what's hot in the gaming world.

good call, i'd love to see something like that too. there's alot of knowledge in that room and answering reader's questions would be great!

Last one Yahtzee did didn't work out at all...

I like this, I want moar !

Bob is dead on that the onscreen cursor is the biggest thing to come out of the Wii. That is the equivalent of the mouse-from-the-couch which console fps gamers were dreaming about since Goldeneye.

I hated everything about Resident Evil until I played 4 for the Wii. Where switching to "aim mode" was completely natural and not awkward like controlling the crosshair with the thumbstick.

And the mario spin or the travis touchdown slash is very satisfying except the finishing moves from NMH are basically quicktime without user control and in Madworld they are so sloppy that you can't really pick which one you use.

Also the nunchuck throwing of the grapple beam in Metroid Prime corruption is viscerally satisfying, much moreso than a button press.

I very much agree with most of the points in here. Motion controlling is great fun for casual gaming (using the Wii for such things). However, I for one am greatly interested to see the possibility of the motion controlling technology moving away from gaming, and more towards becoming a control for a Media Center application.

As far as non-casual gaming goes, I unfortunately see this as the future:
http://www.foxtrot.com/2010/11/11282010/

This is a great read and I love the crossover idea, but I have a bad feeling this is gonna turn into the usual "Ha! Yahtzee OWNED MovieBob! Lolz!!!!" crap which is a shame seeing as that's not the purpose for this.

I completely understand what Yahtzee means about immersion through the small button presses that were so accustomed to that we don't even think about anymore and how having to think about our controls takes us out of the immersion.

Also DKCR ground pound made me smile when I first used it, especially when using the Wii Remote/ Nunchuk combination, it just works really really well and it's a shame they had to also make the roll a waggle move.

I just think motion controlled games are a completely different experience, they tend to be a lot more fun in group settings.

Well...that was awesome. A very interesting and intelligent read on the current state of gaming. There needs to be more of this.

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