Critical Miss: Evil, Evidently

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Heh, this reminds me a little of the style of humor they used to run with in Slackerz before they stopped updating. Shame, that comic was kind of fun in a weird sort of way.

Anyway, really nice work, I giggled at "Hitli" ^^

Actually all of that was pretty much meaningless.

You have... Malcolm MacDowell. How more evil can you get?
image

Don't forget they're all made to be British as well.

I watched to 1.08 and then I LOL'd so hard I couldn't be bothered to watch anymore.

He nuked his own city, okay, extreme times and extreme measures, etc, I can appreciate that part of the story.

Oh, and the city just happened to be named Pyrrhus. *facepalm*

O I C WAT U DID THAR.

ohhhhhh so that's why they called them the HELGHAST I see what they did there now

Truly-A-Lie:

Onyx Oblivion:
Why is it I feel more sympathy for the Helghast, then I do for the ISA?

Oh. Because Rico is a douche.

Yeah, I've always viewed the Helghast as the rightful protagonists of Killzone. They may have the design of the Nazis, and some parallels, but whereas the Nazis are universally evil based on what happened in WW2, the Helghast have never commited the same level of atrocity. They invaded a planet that they were forcibly removed from in Killzone 1, that doesn't sound so bad to me. Then they got invaded and fought back. Again, not such a terrible thing to do.
But then Killzone 3 came along and had them creating tickers from Gears of War and doing human experiments, as if Guerilla were desperately trying to convince us that they've been bad all along. Instead of making me side with the ISA, it simply conflicted with my earlier view of an otherwise industrial and practical army so made me disconnect from the story.

And then of course the ISA go and blow up the entire frakking planet so nonchalantly. The douchyness of that is 100 times worse than anything the actual Nazis did.

Misho-:

Eico:

Misho-:

But Stalin was one of the good guys in WW2... Oh wait right... Communism equals eveel so it's okay then. Why not throw Castro in there too?

Firstly: There is no good in war. Period.

Second: Russia was neutral in the war. The only reason they were considered allies is because they were fighting back the Germans. Who, you know, invaded them. Russia couldn't care less about the rest of us at that point.

Ok Ok I'll give you that...

image

Anyway the real reason why he became the next evil was that he was reluctant to let go of the "conquered" countries after the war...

Well that...and the propaganda machine, secret NKVD police, Siberian gulags, the executions of thousands of intellectuals and generals due to suspicion, slave labour, penal battalions, restructuring of the farming system leading to starvation, and generally just ensuring that Russia would modernize rapidly within urban areas, but its wheels would be oiled by Russian blood.

Optimystic:
And goatees for everyone.

I misred this as "goatse"

:<
Please, help me

Maybe it's trying to be ironic.

If you pay close attention to the story line you'll notice that, not only are you invading their homeland( an in hospitable world that you exiled them to) but your systematically destabilizing their governments very infrastructure without any plans to aid or assist the civilian population.

The game goes out of it's way to establish the pretense that they are evil,
but if you look below the surface you will notice that they are just a product of your interference.
Their very existence was born of your persecution and the game seems to hint that they are, in fact, the real tragic hero, left with no other option than to become as brutal and ruthless as the lot they have been cast.
The irony is that now after your planet created this monster that now you must exterminate it once again, to repeat the same mistakes of the past.
It truly is a tale of sorrow and social satire that muddies the water between what we see as good and evil, truly this is an unappreciated gem that so many have passed over.

Or it was just really lazy...

Everything about that intro made me cringe. I like how he nuked his own capital city in order to win. The city's name? Pyrrus.

Real subtle. YOU GUYS ARE GENIUSES!

Well, except for the part where it appears they pull a starship troopers and the Helghast MIGHT be the GOOD GUYS

I still feel sorry for the Helghan.

Exiled to a radioactive, inhospitable planet? Forced to adapt, evolve, survive?

And then invaded by space-yanks.

Bad times.

Grey Carter:
Critical Miss: Evil, Evidently

Nice touch with the armbands. Subtle.

Read Full Article

Killzone 3 isn't just dumb. I like dumb games. Killzone 3 assumes the player is dumb. In case you couldn't figure out that the Space Nazis with the glowing eyes (and designs ripped from the far superior Jin Roh) weren't supposed to be the antagonists they drop handy little hints, like having them execute prisoners of war, their own men, anything they can get their hands on. Sony honestly shows a remarkable degree of restraint by not including a scene where they shovel puppies into a furnace. The good gentlemen over at Penny Arcade already touched on the ridiculous design of their evil technology but the characters are even worse. Helghast leaders are literally pulled straight from the history books. Stalin? Sure. Kaiser Wilhelm? Why not? Hitler? How about two Hitlers? Great. No, I didn't make that part up.

The intro is honestly a marvelous thing to behold. It takes the idea of the idea of the visual metaphor and beats the viewer to death with it. It's quite endearing a way. If only because it proves there are writers out there worse than I am.

:(.....I'm guessing you didn't like Killzone 3.

Say what you want my good sir, but for continuity's sake of finishing the series and the fact that I out right despise any Call of Duty game (Cept 4) Then I shall continue to play this awesome game.....and yes they are EEEEEEEEEEEVIL!!

RobCoxxy:
I still feel sorry for the Helghan.

Exiled to a radioactive, inhospitable planet? Forced to adapt, evolve, survive?

And then invaded by space-yanks.

Bad times.

Huzzah for someone who payed attention to the story :D

You sir are awesome.

ReiverCorrupter:

Abedeus:

ReiverCorrupter:

Lol. That's rather ironic considering he's German. I'll give you one last hint. He's probably most famous for saying "God is dead." Though people often misinterpret what he means by this.

Nitz... Nitsche... The nihilist guy?

Seriously, we don't learn about what people SAY in school. And I don't learn every single quote in all languages I know.

Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche. I know it's a pain to spell, it's polish. And he wasn't a nihilist. In fact, pretty much all of his writings are geared towards defeating nihilism. He didn't believe in objective values, but rather that we create values through our wills. It's complicated. He's a really witty writer, I suggest you read one of his works when you get a chance. "Twilight of the Idols" and "The Antichrist" are both short and thought provoking.

Good to see Nietzsche getting some love here. I think this may be the first time I've seen someone reference Nietzsche in some way that is accurate.

Would be nice if someone like Nietzsche was more influential in games and such, his view of going 'beyond good and evil' could make the whole 'moral choice' mechanic much more fun. Plus his perspectivism and concept of the overhuman (and eternal recurrence, AND will to power) would make great gameplay elements.

Throw a resurrected Nietzsche into this game and I may be interested.:)

Two Hitlers? I only ever saw one Hitler. To be honest though, my focus was on the guy with the really goofy 'stache...

Ghengis John:
image

The one on the left in this pic. What the hell is going on with that facial hair, Helghast dude?!

Madara XIII:

RobCoxxy:
I still feel sorry for the Helghan.

Exiled to a radioactive, inhospitable planet? Forced to adapt, evolve, survive?

And then invaded by space-yanks.

Bad times.

Huzzah for someone who payed attention to the story :D

You sir are awesome.

I would submit that they did not pay attention to the story. They left out the part where the Helgan people (they weren't called Helghast yet) tried to basically take over space and make it really hard for other people to trade, and try to kick out what were basically government troops from their planets. Obviously, the ISA and the UCA responded to this act of aggression, and ended up winning that war. So that's the part that wasn't mentioned before "Exiled to a radioactive, inhospitable planet?". The Helghan people started a fight, and then lost it.

And then before "And then invaded by space-yanks.", you guys forgot all about Killzone 1 and Killzone Liberation, where the Helghast invaded the "space-yanks" FIRST and did lots of nasty things there, one of the big ones stealing a nuclear weapon from the ISA and take it back to Helghan. This is why they were invaded by space-yanks. And then we all know about the nasty things they did in Killzone 2 and 3 if we played.

No, I do not feel sorry for the Helghast at this point at all. I also find it quite laughable when people claim "You play as the bad guys in this game, the Helghast are the good guys." No, they are absolutely not the bad guys. The ISA aren't really the "good guys" here, but that doesn't mean the Helghast are. You have the ISA which are just regular dickheads and not total bad guys (still jerks though), and then you have the Helghast which are giant, "gold penis statue from Minecraft" dickheads who are 100% pure bad-guy. And THAT is all things you will learn if you truly pay attention to the story.

http://www.killzone.com/kz/storyline.psml Good stuff, check it out sometime. And remember to play the games again and pay attention, you can see that the Helghast aren't even close to being good guys or being pitiable.

Mumorpuger:
Everything about that intro made me cringe. I like how he nuked his own capital city in order to win. The city's name? Pyrrus.

Real subtle. YOU GUYS ARE GENIUSES!

Well, they didn't actually win by setting off the nuke, so it wasn't actually a pyrrhic victory. It was pretty much just plain ol' "epic fail".

OK, I could et not knowing the first quote, but the 'That which does not kill me' thing is freaking super famous. Then again, just because you know the saying doesn't mean you know where it came from. Of course, I've always prefered the variation "That whcih does not kill me won't get a second chance."

mjc0961:
Two Hitlers? I only ever saw one Hitler. To be honest though, my focus was on the guy with the really goofy 'stache...

Ghengis John:
image

The one on the left in this pic. What the hell is going on with that facial hair, Helghast dude?!

I suspect in keeping with the team's truly incredible originality that this is the origin:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_I,_German_Emperor

Seriously, seriously. If they put one of those "real persons living or dead" "real events" unintentional messages on this thing they would be bold faced liars. I really hope they didn't.

Grey Carter:
Killzone 3 assumes the player is dumb.

Having played games online for quite a while, I'm sad to say they're not wrong.

"How about a Mussolini as well?"
"No. We don't want to dillute the concept."

The video is amazing because at first it looks like someone played Modern Warfare and didn't get it, but when you look into it it looks like someone played it, got it, and just didn't give a shit.

I read the "history" of Killzone and the helghast actually seem like the good guys.

Seriously,the ending of Killzone 3 kinda made me sad.....

Congratulations Sevchenko you've just mass murdered god knows how many men women and children

The helghast could be more evil if they let dr.doom and darth vader join their ranks.

i7omahawki:

ReiverCorrupter:

Abedeus:

Nitz... Nitsche... The nihilist guy?

Seriously, we don't learn about what people SAY in school. And I don't learn every single quote in all languages I know.

Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche. I know it's a pain to spell, it's polish. And he wasn't a nihilist. In fact, pretty much all of his writings are geared towards defeating nihilism. He didn't believe in objective values, but rather that we create values through our wills. It's complicated. He's a really witty writer, I suggest you read one of his works when you get a chance. "Twilight of the Idols" and "The Antichrist" are both short and thought provoking.

Good to see Nietzsche getting some love here. I think this may be the first time I've seen someone reference Nietzsche in some way that is accurate.

Would be nice if someone like Nietzsche was more influential in games and such, his view of going 'beyond good and evil' could make the whole 'moral choice' mechanic much more fun. Plus his perspectivism and concept of the overhuman (and eternal recurrence, AND will to power) would make great gameplay elements.

Throw a resurrected Nietzsche into this game and I may be interested.:)

Taking a Nietzschean approach to a moral choice system would be rather strange. The system would just be whatever you wanted it to be, with the whole revaluation-of-values thing.

As far as the other principles go, I'd say eternal recurrence kinda already applies to FPS multiplayer. You keep doing it over and over and over again. Plus the will to power is in pretty much every game ever. Certainly in every RPG, where the entire point is to become more powerful. Just goes to show you that he was right.

ReiverCorrupter:

i7omahawki:

snip

Taking a Nietzschean approach to a moral choice system would be rather strange. The system would just be whatever you wanted it to be, with the whole revaluation-of-values thing.

As far as the other principles go, I'd say eternal recurrence kinda already applies to FPS multiplayer. You keep doing it over and over and over again. Plus the will to power is in pretty much every game ever. Certainly in every RPG, where the entire point is to become more powerful. Just goes to show you that he was right.

As to the moral choice system, precisely, games should be exploring more freeform choices, in fact, moral choices should be done away with altogether (especially when the game itself takes a view on your actions).

Just the whole framework of gaming seems to suggest a somewhat Nietzschean viewpoint. Being the central driving force into a work of art (though they may not be yet) gives unparalleled potentional in involving the gamer.

A personal struggle is what games are all about, I think your point on FPS multiplayer does apply just as well to will-to-power; rules, tactics and team strategy pulling together to dominate.

Who knows, maybe "Thus Played Zarathustra" shall come out sometime :P

Logic 0:
The helghast could be more evil if they let dr.doom and darth vader join their ranks.

But both of those characters actually of some semblance of humanity left in them.
No, what they need is someone like my dear friend Judge Death
image

Ahh that's better....

With the catch phrase "the crime is life, the sentence is death" we need not fear some poor soul misunderstanding that this is our antagonist. Because we all know that subtly is simply overrated.

It also works out quite well because the Helghast are all sorta dead now...
See, the ground work is already in place

hippo24:

Logic 0:
The helghast could be more evil if they let dr.doom and darth vader join their ranks.

But both of those characters actually of some semblance of humanity left in them.
No, what they need is someone like my dear friend Judge Death
image

Ahh that's better....

With the catch phrase "the crime is life, the sentence is death" we need not fear some poor soul misunderstanding that this is our antagonist. Because we all know that subtly is simply overrated.

It also works out quite well because the Helghast are all sorta dead now...
See, the ground work is already in place

The great irony is that death is one of the most likable characters in the Dreddverse.

Madara XIII:

RobCoxxy:
I still feel sorry for the Helghan.

Exiled to a radioactive, inhospitable planet? Forced to adapt, evolve, survive?

And then invaded by space-yanks.

Bad times.

Huzzah for someone who payed attention to the story :D

You sir are awesome.

:3

Still got the bad feeling it's going to end horribly for them. Haven't played Killzone 3 yet.... but in American games, the enemy (even if they aren't the 'bad guys') never win.

Ghengis John:
Every time I run into these guys I have to pull out wikipedia and educate them myself.

I agree with your World War 2 in Space style argument, but you tried to use Wikipedia as a credible source to educate people? *Facepalm*

As for the thread: Too evil, too cliche. Whenever I write stories or fanfiction and such, I try to make my villains be regular people with corrupted visions, ideals, or the such. Not super-evil that it's obvious, but you can tell deep down they have some sort of insanity that plagues them that they try to combat against, leading to struggles and changes of personality.

Enough: "I am Evil. You, shall die."

More: "I think I'm a good person... right?"

At the end of the first extra solar war (read: world war 1), Earth's ISA forces (the allies) had crushed the rogue colony (Country) of Helghan(Germany).

The victory did not bring peace, but instead brought humiliation, hardships, and bitter resentment.

Driven by the vision of scholar Visari (Adolf Hitler), the population of Helghan (Germany) transformed from a defeated nation into a military super power.

They would become humanity's greatest threat.

They called themselves the Helghast (Nazis).

Hmm, wow Carter.. you may be right, they are bad writers, or at the very least very unoriginal.

And yet, I find myself rooting for them...

Yeah, Guerrilla Games do go a bit overboard with their allusions, metaphors, and clear cut "WWII in SPACE!" analogy in the Killzone games. I doubt they'd know what "subtly" is if it hit them square in the face. It's still a good game, I think anyway, and I do find the whole situation fascinating in how it's presented and shown regardless of where it was ripped from.

Diamondback One:

Ghengis John:
Every time I run into these guys I have to pull out wikipedia and educate them myself.

I agree with your World War 2 in Space style argument, but you tried to use Wikipedia as a credible source to educate people? *Facepalm*

It's not like I'm shooting for university level accreditation. Besides, what matters is they get the gist of things quickly. I could tell them to go check out a book from their local library, but I doubt contentious kids will go through the trouble.

Jumplion:
. I doubt they'd know what "subtly" is if it hit them square in the face.

This is possibly the 5rd or 6th best sentence I've ever read.

Being hit in the face with subtly...it's like you crammed a metaphor into a paradox, loaded it into an analogy, and shot it as an insult. Seriously, I don't know if it was intentional but someone needs to hand you an award(or at least a printable certificate).

hippo24:

Jumplion:
. I doubt they'd know what "subtly" is if it hit them square in the face.

This is possibly the 5rd or 6th best sentence I've ever read.

Being hit in the face with subtly...it's like you crammed a metaphor into a paradox, loaded it into an analogy, and shot it as an insult. Seriously, I don't know if it was intentional but someone needs to hand you an award(or at least a printable certificate).

I dunno, I thought that was a common expression? Like "You wouldn't know [whatever it is] even if it [something it does]!"

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