The Big Picture: PC Gaming Is Dead - Long Live PC Gaming!

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that's not a cold open

Void(null):
2011 PC Exclusives.

Cut it.
-gigastar

As for the Hardware debate. In no way shape and form can your phone, your laptop or your console provide the same high fidelity experience that a modern desktop can.

Desktops have better visuals, audio and overall performance. Heck the basic gaming desktop of today is 2 generations ahead of the console.

If graphics, sound and data storage did not matter, we would all still be playing Space Invaders.

I feel compelled to reply to this as you went to the trouble of copy/pasting 3 pages of listed PC exclusives.

Firstly, desktop hardware may be better, but not everyone is willing to shell out for something that is going to be considered obselete within the three months.

Secondly, most desktop games are, and always will be, limited by multiplatform releases. Nowadays it wont make a difference if you buy Crysis 2 on PC or PS3, because they will both look, sound and (to a certain extent) perform the same.

Thirdly, while nothing Atari did during the second console generation was really intelligent, and everyone knows this now. Even if they didnt fail spectacularly they would have improved thier consoles and games or the Commordore platform would have overtaken them and put them out of buisness anyway.

Oh and if youre wondering the original Space Invaders was designed for those old arcade coin vacuums. Atari just borrowed the idea then ran away with it. Tripping over several times.

And finally as a go-betweener of PC desktop and console games, i can tell you it is just much harder to get immersed by a PC game. Dont know why, but it just is.

"With apologies to those guys over at alienware" Ahahaha. no. You mean "Apologies to all those decades of system-builders out there?" or "Apologies to every single GPU/ high powered CPU manufacturer out there?"

Does bob even listen to himself when he speaks? Does he not realise that there were gaming systems buld before alienware and about 20 other companies doing the exact same thing and slight variations both founded before and after Alienware? There is also the added bonus of Alienware being tthe "I don't know shit about PC gaming" answer to the PC gaming question. No it's not just alienware who "Makes PCs primarily for gaming" It's everyone who has ever bought a beefy dedicated GPU.

"Install Explorer on my Xbox" Oh right. That explains it. Please Bob gain some understanding of a topic before going on about it.

TheLoser22:
I think there's only one really important question out of all of this that needs to be addressed immediately.

Why the hell is Bob still using Internet Explorer? I'm not a champion for Mozilla or Google, but c'mon, man! It's like refusing to upgrade from a broken down lemon to a fully functional vehicle.

I heard IE9's actually not bad. Still not as good as Firefox or Chrome, but certainly not broken.

Iron Mal:
To be fair, the PC is dying, in decline, falling from grace, whatever poetic or avoidiant terminology you choose to use.

I saw somebody on here post a long ist of games to supposedly prove the contrary, but looking through most of them (we're going to discount indie titles since they aren't 'professionally' manufactured games and thus don't contribute to the games industry at large)

Minecraft
Super Meat Boy
World of Goo
Zeno Clash
Grim Dawn
Gish
Uplink
Darwinia
DEFCON
RuneScape
Braid
Mount&Blade
'Splosion Man

All contribute nothing because they did not have Atari, Activision, EA, ZeniMax or 2K footing the bill for their development?

image

MovieBob:
PC Gaming Is Dead - Long Live PC Gaming!

Hold off on the rage for a second and just listen.

Watch Video

I have a suggestion for an alternate title.

"Even though entertainment software that is accessible through multi-role hardware will always be with us, desktop computers as a specific means of accessing that software will sooner or later cease to be used!"

I agree that yours is catchier and more provocative, but when you specifically remark that PC games aren't going anywhere, it makes your argument seem like little more than a carefully framed statement, presented as a bold declaration - you can't really blame people for being provoked by an argument that's meant to be provocative.

Even if this does accurately summarize your argument, I'm inclined to disagree. We are not at a point where advancements in technology could be said to have killed, or are killing, PC gaming. Considering that Counter-Strike, a decade-old PC game, still dominates Steam's servers, I think it's safe to say you'll need an entire generation of PC gamers to simply die off before you'll really see an abandonment of PC gaming - at which point, you'd probably see an abandonment of all non-mobile computing altogether.

Let me make a new declaration:

PC Gaming will outlive console gaming.

Anyone care to argue this?

For much of the central premise I agree that genres are moving over to various other mediums and the tool function of the ginormous personal computer is being picked up by other machines. My one big question is how laptops are all that different from a pc. Keyboard and mouse, especially if your mouse is a usb peripheral, as the control scheme is there and in many ways isn't it the control scheme that actually defines this debate. We have had the same games being released on console and pc for ages and while companies will sometimes release exclusive content on the different machines, we have the keyboard and mouse standard scheme for pc/laptop, touchscreen for the tablet/smartphone, carry over that touchscreen and a number of other controls to the ds, controllers for the consoles, and a variety of generally inaccurate motion control systems that presumably will get better with time also working the console scene.

Digressing already from the laptop question a bit already but maybe this tangent leads somewhere. Its possible to hook the mouse and keyboard into a console but few games released to be played on them take advantage of that and vice versa for the controller. There are some control schemes that the use of more hot-keys than is really possible is an advantage or that if the ui were cleaned up to fit a controller it often involves far more menu navigation which breaks flow. Recent example: Dragon Age 2, you can map six spells to the fast cast system of the controller but as a mage I use at least eight on a fairly regular basis so in order to cast some of those spells I am constantly going into the pause battle menu and then over to the second screen within the subset instant cast spell menu. Mappable hot keys to the number line take care of that fairly well. And until motion controllers register with a bit more accuracy without making me feel like my twitchy hands are in constant seizure state the mouse is just a wonderfully fast and accurate way of navigating a screen. Mouse and keyboard on a PS3 sure I'm game, don't see why Starcraft 2 or any other game loses that "PC gaming feel" by being on a console as long as we still have the interface. Hell my PS3 is so far beyond my old laptop I can hardly be a pc gamer anymore just because it is so expensive to replace the hardware. I still prefer the tool that lets me interface with the game the easiest whether that be a controller in God of War or Saints Row 2, or that be the keyboard and mouse in Deus Ex, Starcraft 2, or Plants vs Zombies.

While I have been rambling that the system a control scheme hooks up to hardly matters as long as the controls and the game work together for immersion I think I might just have to take some inspiration from Bob and deride my children for growing up in the tablet age but wholly embrace my grandchildren's love of the eyeball implants. Its settled. Industry! begin work on the tablet age! I'll get around to the kid thing eventually.

dunnace:
Oh yeah, PC gaming is dying, definitely.

*Opens steam, plays Mafia 2, eagerly awaits Portal 2, contemplates getting Shogun 2.*

You're right, there is no need for this device anymore.

*Decides to install the Oddworld games again, laughs heartily at the latest from TellTale*

Quite simply nobody supports the platform anymore.

*Asks brother how he's getting on with Dragon Age 2, discuss their excitement for the upcoming Witcher 2*

And here's a question, with the axception of Witcher 2, why do I need a PC to play ANY of those games. oh that's right I DON'T.

Delusibeta:

Iron Mal:
(we're going to discount indie titles since they aren't 'professionally' manufactured games and thus don't contribute to the games industry at large)

Incorrect, thus rendering your entire argument invalid. (Two high profile examples: Portal 1 is based on an indie game, Nebular Drop, and elements of Portal 2 has been taken from an indie game Tag: The Power of Paint. Never mind something like The Fancy Pants Adventures or Minecraft).

While you're free to disagree with me I fail to see how that small disagreement between us (for the sake of keeping things simpler for comparison) makes my entire arguement invalid?

Well, in short, it doesn't invalidate my whole arguement and you just don't want to address anything I said (better luck next time though).

Also worth noting, I was never really a fan of Portal.

The only reason why consoles are so greatly supported is because its simply too easy to pirate games making consoles more profitable. Now once online game buying truly kicks in then and DRM becomes standardised so not every company has to create their own crappy DRM then we shall see PC take over the gaming market completely, leaving consoles to 12 year old kids.

I disagree. The parts that separate PC from most other electronic devices is personalization ( like many variations in hardware) and being an open platform.
You can find both of those traits in a laptop or a netbook, there are even Windows 7 tablets now. Both tablets and laptops can be used for gaming these days, I'm using a laptop for gaming right now (not some facebook games, but things that actually take time and much skill to make - Bulletstorm or W40K2:Retribution)

IMO, PC gaming is not dieing, it's just slowly changing it's shell. And as long as PC holds the fore-mentioned traits it will remain PC and people will play games on it, no matter what shape it has at the time.

Void(null):
-HUGE SNIP-
As for the Hardware debate. In no way shape and form can your phone, your laptop or your console provide the same high fidelity experience that a modern desktop can.

Desktops have better visuals, audio and overall performance. Heck the basic gaming desktop of today is 2 generations ahead of the console.

For now...

I have to agree with Bob here. While PC currently still manage to keep ahead of consoles with genres, hardware, and custimization; it's obvious that what the PC does is begining to spread to other hardware. Phones, tablets, consoles; they're all moving closer and closer to being PC's in and of themselves (I didn't put laptops because I consider them to just be mobile PCs). Sure, right now other hardware still can't reach PCs, but what's to say in the future that it will continue to hold this gap? Remember about a decade ago when phones could only really call people, game consoles could only be used to play games, tablets didn't really exist, and when you wanted to play music you used the CD player that could only play CD's? Now look at where we are. Make no mistake, the PC is being to lose it's edge over the compition.

I've read through some of the posts so far and from what I saw of those disagreeing with Bob are those looking solely at the current sitiuation rather then the overall pattern we've been having for the last decade. Like I said before, PC's used to perform tasks that no other piece of hardware could do; now many of those tasks can be performed with cellphones. Look at the pattern and context, not just the random data.

In the end, PC gaming isn't dying. It seems pretty healthy right now. But looking off into the future; I can tell it's days are numbered.

Excellent discussion issue Bob.

Edit: I'm also surprised that after 5 pages, nobody has yet to post that one picture. You know which one I'm talking about.

Very little to say about this video, except for congratulations! You've finally degraded this show to the same standard as your Game overthinker show!

*Facepalm*

Void(null):

Iron Mal:
To be fair, the PC is dying, in decline, falling from grace, whatever poetic or avoidiant terminology you choose to use.

I saw somebody on here post a long ist of games to supposedly prove the contrary, but looking through most of them (we're going to discount indie titles since they aren't 'professionally' manufactured games and thus don't contribute to the games industry at large)

Minecraft
Super Meat Boy
World of Goo
Zeno Clash
Grim Dawn
Gish
Uplink
Darwinia
DEFCON
RuneScape
Braid
Mount&Blade
'Splosion Man

All contribute nothing because they did not have Atari, Activision, EA, ZeniMax or 2K footing the bill for their development?

image

Not mad actually, I simply thought it'd be easier to keep the indie games out of the discussion since both consoles and PC have rather extensive indie listings so we could be here talking about it all say.

It's keeps it quicker and easier if we just limit the discussion to the bigger titles that it's guaranteed everyone has heard of.

Sutter Cane:

dunnace:
Oh yeah, PC gaming is dying, definitely.

*Opens steam, plays Mafia 2, eagerly awaits Portal 2, contemplates getting Shogun 2.*

You're right, there is no need for this device anymore.

*Decides to install the Oddworld games again, laughs heartily at the latest from TellTale*

Quite simply nobody supports the platform anymore.

*Asks brother how he's getting on with Dragon Age 2, discuss their excitement for the upcoming Witcher 2*

And here's a question, with the axception of Witcher 2, why do I need a PC to play ANY of those games. oh that's right I DON'T.

Holy shit, you have Shogun 2 on your Xbox?

As Bob points out the current generation consoles are basically PCs, and this is particularly true for the XBox 360 and PS3.

PCs have a lot of things still going for them: a more open OS that allows for easy modding, a greater variety of controller support, and no single dominating company trying to control all aspects of it (and adding $10 to all game prices). If PC games do die it's because consoles continue to embrace things that PCs do well and then "console gaming" and "PC gaming" will be a meaningless distinction.

How about in a few years mobile phones will be about as powerful as the average desktop now, and that we install all games on that, and connect it wirelessly to a keyboard/mouse setup. then the desktop will be gone, but desktop/pc gaming will not. I really want a few more fallout and total war games please.

Void(null):

mrhateful:

teebeeohh:
PC gaming will not die simply because the PC is an open system while consoles are a choke hold on creativity and customer friendliness. I will trade in my PC the Day there is a console that allows me to run whatever OS i want, use whatever input method i want and connect to whatever online service i want.

In other words the day your console becomes a pc.

Then isn't console gaming dieing and PC gaming taking over?

If consoles become PC's... what happens to consoles?

Ofcause, PC is going to stay while console will slowly fade away.

I was just pointing out that if a console becomes viable then it becomes a PC. Its like when MovieBob said that guitar hero wouldn't work with a button masher controller.

over 30 million steam users disagree Bob...
...and thats just the steam users!

If you really can cope with gaming on your Xbox then I hope you're prepared for the inevitable gaming stagnation that would come if PC gaming and the indie developers that use it were to die.

The fact is I haven't heard of a single developer that began on a console and if anyone can tell me one then I will happily take back this point.

The PC is still the only place where new ideas can be given true creative freedom.

ZombieGenesis:
Laptops ARE computers, and I agree laptops will probably replace the box PC. But ...it's still a PC.

I agree completely, and when I talked to MovieBob at PAX East after seeing this video screened there, I pointed this out to him. He clarified that he wasn't referring to laptops and when he said PC, he meant computer tower + monitor.

Well you could just as easily argue that console gaming is dying. If tablets and mobile phones will make the PC obsolete, they could just as easily do that to consoles. But i think in reality neither will happen, as both PCs and consoles have advantages (battery life, versatility on the side of the PC and convenience on the side of the console).

gigastar:
Firstly, desktop hardware may be better, but not everyone is willing to shell out for something that is going to be considered obselete within the three months.

That old chestnut. You really should get better arguments, since that hasn't been valid for at least three years, probably longer. If you make a cutting edge computer today, it'll last at least five years without any pressing need for an upgrade. If you make a mid-class computer, it will probably last four years.

gigastar:
Secondly, most desktop games are, and always will be, limited by multiplatform releases. Nowadays it wont make a difference if you buy Crysis 2 on PC or PS3, because they will both look, sound and (to a certain extent) perform the same.

This is true, but the PS3 won't get the mods that make Crysis 2 look better (assuming Crytek releases mod tools. And even then, I wouldn't rule out someone organising something along the lines of the S.T.A.L.K.E.R Complete range of mods)

gigastar:
And finally as a go-betweener of PC desktop and console games, i can tell you it is just much harder to get immersed by a PC game. Dont know why, but it just is.

Personal opinions aren't much of an arguement.

munx13:
I disagree. The parts that separate PC from most other electronic devices is personalization (many variations in hardware) and being an open platform.
You can find both of those traits in a laptop or a netbook, there are even Windows 7 tablets now. Both tablets and laptops can be used for gaming these days, I'm using a laptop for gaming right now (not some facebook games, but things that actually take time and much skill to make - Bulletstorm or W40K2:Retribution)

IMO, PC gaming is not dieing, it's just slowly changing it's shell.

I think that is kinda what Bob was saying, but just not very well. Unusual for him.

There is a concept called, convergence, and it is happening. The day you can hook up a keyboard and mouse to a 360 and use MS apps is the day there is little reason to not call it a PC (I think the PS3 went through some trouble in Europe over an argument as to what it was: toy or computer).

His most relevent point today was simply: will we still, 5 years from now, be buying a big honkin desk to hold computer/monitor and printer. Actually, yes. At a minimum, it's called an entertainment center. BTW: for $400, I built an AMD quadcore with 5670 card that plays games reasonably well at 30 FPS and does all those PC apps too on my 55" TV. Not the best computer, but on par with consoles + PC functionality.

Macrobstar:

Void(null):

As for the Hardware debate. In no way shape and form can your phone, your laptop or your console provide the same high fidelity experience that a modern desktop can.

Desktops have better visuals, audio and overall performance. Heck the basic gaming desktop of today is 2 generations ahead of the console.

If graphics, sound and data storage did not matter, we would all still be playing Space Invaders.

2 Generations ahead? Really? Have you ever played a console?
Fine whatever if that list of games you posted makes you feel confident about your purchase than fine, I'll just say I don't feel so insecure I have to post a huge list of games

Actually you're right and that's my bad. Its one generation ahead.

gigastar:

Void(null):
2011 PC Exclusives.

Cut it.
-gigastar

As for the Hardware debate. In no way shape and form can your phone, your laptop or your console provide the same high fidelity experience that a modern desktop can.

Desktops have better visuals, audio and overall performance. Heck the basic gaming desktop of today is 2 generations ahead of the console.

If graphics, sound and data storage did not matter, we would all still be playing Space Invaders.

I feel compelled to reply to this as you went to the trouble of copy/pasting 3 pages of listed PC exclusives.

Firstly, desktop hardware may be better, but not everyone is willing to shell out for something that is going to be considered obselete within the three months.

Secondly, most desktop games are, and always will be, limited by multiplatform releases. Nowadays it wont make a difference if you buy Crysis 2 on PC or PS3, because they will both look, sound and (to a certain extent) perform the same.

And finally as a go-betweener of PC desktop and console games, i can tell you it is just much harder to get immersed by a PC game. Dont know why, but it just is.

The PC version of a game that is released multiplatform will always be better. Especialy if we're going with shooters. Mods and little tweeks you can do on the PC make it relevent and until consoles start doing so it will remain.
As a go-betweener myself I can tell you it is much easier to get immersed in a PC game. I can't even see how you would think otherwise (Again especialy for FPSs).

Well, as a 3D modeller I wouldn't like to work on my phone, tablet, shmoncole or whatever. I game on my workbench. I also don't have any needs for handehelds or pads or the like. I for one actually can be social among people and do other things than stare at a screen all the time (although I do quite a bit of staring).

The only things that might make me play on a oldsole would be if I could use a keyboard and mouse, swap out parts so that I can get even better performance and not have to worry about getting weirdo color schemes and other things (look at DA2, someone played with some hue extremes). But oh wait, that's what my PC already does! I have K&M, I don't have to wory about gems getting stale due to hardware stall and I don't need wacky color schemmes so that I can clearly see what's going on.

If there's anything consoles does better than PCs it's racing games, but that's easly rectified. Get a controller for a PC. I have no interest in stuff like god of war or anything the like. Even less for JRPGs. Consoles doesn't offer anything I'd like and they are trying to become more and more of a PC with all the internet browsers that get tacked on and whatever.

I don't think PC gaming is going to change much, yes it's going to EXPAND but not too much changing.

Void(null):
2011 PC Exclusives.
*snip*

That list... is awesome!

However, yes, Bob has a point. People no longer "NEED" a Home Computer Station. A simple EEEpc to type some stuff up, wifi connecting everything, a small printer somewhere, a spiffy phone... yeah. Yeah... its no longer needed.

Interesting.... hm...

Surely though, by the arguments in this video, it also means that console gaming and consoles in of themselves are dying. I can't really bring myself to agree with many of the points in this video except for the idea of the decentralisation of computing.

Iron Mal:

Delusibeta:

Iron Mal:
(we're going to discount indie titles since they aren't 'professionally' manufactured games and thus don't contribute to the games industry at large)

Incorrect, thus rendering your entire argument invalid. (Two high profile examples: Portal 1 is based on an indie game, Nebular Drop, and elements of Portal 2 has been taken from an indie game Tag: The Power of Paint. Never mind something like The Fancy Pants Adventures or Minecraft).

While you're free to disagree with me I fail to see how that small disagreement between us (for the sake of keeping things simpler for comparison) makes my entire arguement invalid?

Well, in short, it doesn't invalidate my whole arguement and you just don't want to address anything I said (better luck next time though).

Also worth noting, I was never really a fan of Portal.

My other problem with your argument is that it applies equally to each individual format these days.

Yeah Bob is mostly right here and I'll tell you why. Remember Moore's law? that rule about computers doubling their capacity every so often? Well that really isn't going to be the case forever. I'm not even sure it's true right now. Because a circuit path has a limit to how small it can be before quantum mechanics start interfering with the electrons traveling along them.

Unless computer engineers find a new way to condense circuit boards the easier solution will be to make computers bigger. Like we're going backwards in time to where PC's took up an entire room by itself. At that point they will be far to big an expensive for the average home owner to keep or maintain. Then personal devices that are essentially just a wifi connection to your local "SUPER HUB" will be the only way to go. I think that's pretty much what Bob was saying.

Although I can foresee a transition period where your gaming console acts as the video card for your PC. So the console remains portable and you don't need to spend extra cash on a video card for your PC. This would mean that the distinction between a gaming console and a gaming PC will be lost.

So for all you young people who want a career in computing it wouldn't hurt to be an expert in networking and network security. They will be even more important in the future.

gigastar:

I feel compelled to reply to this as you went to the trouble of copy/pasting 3 pages of listed PC exclusives.

Firstly, desktop hardware may be better, but not everyone is willing to shell out for something that is going to be considered obselete within the three months.

Secondly, most desktop games are, and always will be, limited by multiplatform releases. Nowadays it wont make a difference if you buy Crysis 2 on PC or PS3, because they will both look, sound and (to a certain extent) perform the same.

Thirdly, while nothing Atari did during the second console generation was really intelligent, and everyone knows this now. Even if they didnt fail spectacularly they would have improved thier consoles and games or the Commordore platform would have overtaken them and put them out of buisness anyway.

Oh and if youre wondering the original Space Invaders was designed for those old arcade coin vacuums. Atari just borrowed the idea then ran away with it. Tripping over several times.

And finally as a go-betweener of PC desktop and console games, i can tell you it is just much harder to get immersed by a PC game. Dont know why, but it just is.

First: You don't need to have the best hardware at all times. I haven't upgraded my PC for 3 years and its still doing just fine. Having to upgrade to the best of the best every few months is just a silly myth.

Second: This is why you won't need to upgrade much. Since each game will need to run on consoles, the PC requirements won't be really steep.

Third: Don't have much to say about that to be honest.

And finally: I find it much easier to get immersed in a PC game than a console game. Its the reason console "horror" games don't scare me at all. Yet on the PC they scare the crap out of me.

all pc gaming has is WOW, Minecraft and RTSs
consoles are far superior and cheaper plus if a console breaks you don't have to rebuild the damn thing they normally have a warranty as long as the time between upgrades so they are better at what they do plus all other forms of genre are just different on the consoles just cause you can turn round faster on a pc does not make it better.

Void(null):

Minecraft
Super Meat Boy
World of Goo
Zeno Clash
Grim Dawn
Gish
Uplink
Darwinia
DEFCON
RuneScape
Braid
Mount&Blade
'Splosion Man

Oh, sorry for the double post but I should also mention that at least half of those titles are also avaliable on one or more of the three major consoles out at the moment, posting huge lists of games doesn't really make your point any more valid.

Sneaklemming:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/10/ea-its-totally-conceivable-that-pc-will-become-our-biggest-platform/

Sweeeeeeeet. Good news to those of us that want our consoles but our PCs too.

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