The Big Picture: Off the Charts

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vivaldiscool:
In before some fucking idiot posts 5 or 6 good games to refute my claim even though each industry releases thousands of games each year.

Thousands of games that, for the most part, are mediocre. The few greats are those we should be judging on, and if examples [which are clearly needed here] can prove such a statement then who are you to argue against it? Because it might disprove your rash generalizations?

joebear15:
listen I have work to do I said my opinion and you yours, I don't have time to engage you in a dick waving contest right now so either we agree to disagree or I will pencil you in for Friday afternoon.

I hearty apologize for posting evidence, explanations and examples of my point whilst you act cynical and child-like; I'll try harder to create posts with rash generalizations, poorly thought out logic and opinions that don't span beyond "it's bad because I said so" - like you, in the future. By all means ignore the argument, though this post sounds more like an attempt to avoid refutation of points rather than a legitimate response.

All movies based games suck because they rip the story and streamline and cut a lot from the narrative that would be there if not for it being a movie.

Lol I think Movie Bob feeds off the rage of the entitled fan boys on here.

Also, everyone needs to stop trying to get into a dick waving contests on this site. (I mean, just because someone states their opinion, doesn't mean they are stating it as fact.)

And also, I played Uncharted and I didn't really like the game...or the story.

LittleChone:
"For a western developer," eh?

"Heavy Rain" was made by french developers. In France.

The rest are good though.

D_987:

vivaldiscool:
In before some fucking idiot posts 5 or 6 good games to refute my claim even though each industry releases thousands of games each year.

Thousands of games that, for the most part, are mediocre. The few greats are those we should be judging on, and if examples [which are clearly needed here] can prove such a statement then who are you to argue against it? Because it might disprove your rash generalizations?

...what? No, that's completely wrongheaded. When someone says "Most storytelling in this medium is mediocre" you can't counter it by saying "We shouldn't judge the average story in that medium by the mediocre when the few greats are what matters."

No wonder you're having such a hard time with this statement, you're arguing a completely different point. This isn't a question of whether the best storyline games come out of Western or Eastern development, it's a question of the quality of storylines in all games. That means all the mediocre ones, too, which is why we're saying most games are mediocre - at best - in that department while you zoom in on a tiny sample of the whole and ignore everything else.

Thousands of games being mediocre is the whole point.

D_987:

joebear15:
listen I have work to do I said my opinion and you yours, I don't have time to engage you in a dick waving contest right now so either we agree to disagree or I will pencil you in for Friday afternoon.

I hearty apologize for posting evidence, explanations and examples of my point whilst you act cynical and child-like; I'll try harder to create posts with rash generalizations, poorly thought out logic and opinions that don't span beyond "it's bad because I said so" - like you, in the future. By all means ignore the argument, though this post sounds more like an attempt to avoid refutation of points rather than a legitimate response.

Or he(joebear15) could be attempting to stop engaging in a conversation with a guy that won't stop pissing all over his opinions for no good reason like some sort demonic twelve year old troll on 4chan.

Shjade:
...what? No, that's completely wrongheaded.

It's not, but let's see your explanation anyway.

When someone says "Most storytelling in this medium is mediocre" you can't counter it by saying "We shouldn't judge the average story in that medium by the mediocre when the few greats are what matters."

Ok, please point out to me exactly where the person I quoted says that.

Hint: They don't. Instead they make rash generalizations about specific types of storylines from different industries.

No wonder you're having such a hard time with this statement, you're arguing a completely different point.

I haven't actually read your response to my other post but if this is the point you're arguing I doubt I'm going to bother responding...

This isn't a question of whether the best storyline games come out of Western or Eastern development, it's a question of the quality of storylines in all games.

Again, read the quoted post.

That means all the mediocre ones, too, which is why we're saying most games are mediocre - at best

Not the statement Bob made [that I'm arguing against]. Not the statement the person quoted made. Who's arguing this statement again?

- in that department while you zoom in on a tiny sample of the whole and ignore everything else.

I think you're a bit confused about just whom I'm responding to here...

Thousands of games being mediocre is the whole point.

No. No it's not.

I think Bob just hates snarky assholes. oh, and Dane Cook is not a snarky asshole... he is a duchebag. Nathan Drake is more like a Ryan Reynolds.

Brian Hendershot:
Or he(joebear15) could be attempting to stop engaging in a conversation with a guy that won't stop pissing all over his opinions for no good reason like some sort demonic twelve year old troll on 4chan.

If you can't back up your opinions with any form of evidence beyond "I say so" then expect to be called out on it. If you create a post with an intentional arrogant angle "I'll pencil you in..." being such a line, then expect to get a similar response in turn. If joebear, or yourself, can't handle people responding to yourselves in kind [your post [number 249] comes across as both arrogant and lacking in purpose] then post in a different style.

oh god RUN BOB! The flame wars are about to start. I can hold them back just RUUUUUUUUN!

I agree that an actual good video game movie is a long way away if it ever will happen. Although it is not entirely the movie producers fault there aren't many video games that are very compelling when it comes to the story. Even if you have a video game with great writing and an interesting story the whole thing is structured on interaction experience. A huge way you connect to a game is through your first hand experience which makes it extremely difficult to translate those same experiences felt by a gamer into a movie which is purely an observational interaction.

D_987:

Brian Hendershot:
Or he(joebear15) could be attempting to stop engaging in a conversation with a guy that won't stop pissing all over his opinions for no good reason like some sort demonic twelve year old troll on 4chan.

If you can't back up your opinions with any form of evidence beyond "I say so" then expect to be called out on it. If you create a post with an intentional arrogant angle "I'll pencil you in..." being such a line, then expect to get a similar response in turn. If joebear, or yourself, can't handle people responding to yourselves in kind [your post [number 249] comes across as both arrogant and lacking in purpose] then post in a different style.

ill refute your points when I have time to engage in a debate vs rushed as a sidebar to school work im doing.If I had known I would get involved in a protracted argument I would not have commented today at all.

Brian Hendershot:

D_987:

joebear15:
listen I have work to do I said my opinion and you yours, I don't have time to engage you in a dick waving contest right now so either we agree to disagree or I will pencil you in for Friday afternoon.

I hearty apologize for posting evidence, explanations and examples of my point whilst you act cynical and child-like; I'll try harder to create posts with rash generalizations, poorly thought out logic and opinions that don't span beyond "it's bad because I said so" - like you, in the future. By all means ignore the argument, though this post sounds more like an attempt to avoid refutation of points rather than a legitimate response.

Or he(joebear15) could be attempting to stop engaging in a conversation with a guy that won't stop pissing all over his opinions for no good reason like some sort demonic twelve year old troll on 4chan.

thank you

*facepalm*

Yes, D_987, it is the point. Again, you just seem to be having trouble with reading comprehension. No, that's not meant to be a jab or name-calling or anything, it's an assessment of why there seems to be a failure to communicate going on here.

D_987:

Shjade:
When someone says "Most storytelling in this medium is mediocre" you can't counter it by saying "We shouldn't judge the average story in that medium by the mediocre when the few greats are what matters."

Ok, please point out to me exactly where the person I quoted says that.

Hint: They don't. Instead they make rash generalizations about specific types of storylines from different industries.

The post in question:

vivaldiscool:
Western developers-innovative gameplay, vestigial stories.-EXCEPTIONS NEED NOT APPLY.

Eastern developers-Stagnant, dated gameplay, Colorful stories.-EXCEPTIONS NEED NOT APPLY.

In before some fucking idiot posts 5 or 6 good games to refute my claim even though each industry releases thousands of games each year.

I've highlighted it for you as you requested. "Vestigial stories" and "Stagnant, dated gameplay" are, indeed, rash generalizations. Specifically, they are rash generalizations of mediocrity. In other words, "most storytelling in this medium is mediocre" and "most gameplay in this medium is mediocre," respectively. Not being able to interpret that is what led to my assessment above and, frankly, at this point it doesn't seem like further explanation is going to accomplish anything with you.

Yeah, when you think that Uncharted is the best of what the West has to offer when it comes to stories....I mean, Mass Effect 2 anyone??

Oh and Killzone 3 is a pretty good shooter, and as one dimensional as space nazis are, all that matters is they work.

Oh and Bob...

Just give up on a decent Mario movie coming out one day. There's only one team that could pull it off, and it's Pixar....any other attempt will suck, and be just as faithful to the source material as Super Bladerunner Bros. was...lol

I'm sorry Sodom(I call moviebob that based on a cosplay comment i heard him say) but the transformers movies dont suck because they were made by michael bay, not solely atleast, they sucked BECAUSE THEY WERE SHIT. I'll admit, they're fun to watch but at the end of the day it's still shit.

I was laughing that you were showing Mario as a good prospect for a movie. C'mon that's a joke, it's gotta be right? If you say that Uncharted doesn't have a good story you seriously have a hard on for those little plumbers.

Also, for someone who's never played the Uncharted games, just watched the cutscenes, you've probably missed out on 80% of the narrative, which really drives the story. It's amazing but that's what it does so well, by playing the game and hearing their dialog with each other during gameplay you become involved with them. Of course you wouldn't know that because you HAVEN'T PLAYED THEM!

Zelda would also be a horrible movie. Because once again there is no story. Jesus.

I'm usually not that upset about things like this but this just seemed ignorant.

D_987:

Shjade:
...what? No, that's completely wrongheaded.

It's not, but let's see your explanation anyway.

When someone says "Most storytelling in this medium is mediocre" you can't counter it by saying "We shouldn't judge the average story in that medium by the mediocre when the few greats are what matters."

Ok, please point out to me exactly where the person I quoted says that.

Hint: They don't. Instead they make rash generalizations about specific types of storylines from different industries.

Actually, that's exactly what I intended, and essentially what I said. In order for a conversation on the internet like this to work you have to not automatically twist and imply the worst possible implication from a statement. No body here has the time to spell out every possible conclusion from their statements.

I am indeed talking about generalizations, because we are talking about the industries in general. I do not believe my generalization was rash, but debating that would at least be a productive use of our time.

I can find no logic in your statement that exceptions should set the norm. Can you just clarify...why? I don't get why the few define the great.

Djehuty:
I'm sorry Sodom(I call moviebob that based on a cosplay comment i heard him say) but the transformers movies dont suck because they were made by michael bay, not solely atleast, they sucked BECAUSE THEY WERE SHIT. I'll admit, they're fun to watch but at the end of the day it's still shit.

I believe this is why Bob dislikes Bay's movies so much.

This makes me wonder...

Games Vs Movies.... Vs Books Vs Graphic Novels Vs Theater (aka Broadway)

Can we ever find something so perfect that it crosses all platforms perfectly or will experiances always end up getting changed (for better or worse) in translation?

Have to disagree about the Nathan Drake being a douchebag bit. I think he's got a lot more depth than most characters. Although, since you haven't played the Uncharted series, you wouldn't know this. Honestly Bob, I'm about as qualified to call you a douche as you are to call Nathan a douche. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion, but your opinion wouldn't sound so ignorant if you'd actually played the games.

Other than that, though... I agree, as usual.

Personally, I'm all for the Uncharted movie. The silly developers hasn't brought the game out for PC, so it looks like the movie will be my only chance to see what all the fuss is about...

You, ah, know there WAS a Mario movie right? A picture of Mario and Luigi being up during your "other gaming franchises that could make good movies" confused me cause.. ya...

Uncharteds are interactive movies. They don't need this. Sure it was full of some cliches but for a game, an actual video game, it was new and different. Any film version will just be rehash no matter what.

BarbaricGoose:
Have to disagree about the Nathan Drake being a douchebag bit. I think he's got a lot more depth than most characters. Although, since you haven't played the Uncharted series, you wouldn't know this. Honestly Bob, I'm about as qualified to call you a douche as you are to call Nathan a douche. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion, but your opinion wouldn't sound so ignorant if you'd actually played the games.

I completely agree. If you haven't played the games, why are you bashing nay sayers who don't want a movie? This is total BS. Very childish and respect-reducing.

Shjade:

Nautical Honors Society:
As I said before Eastern Developers re-hash the same stories over and over again...like Final Fantasy.

Do you really want to go over how many World War 2/It Was The Russians games we've made?

Really?

No not really, I am fully aware...I am not saying one is superior to the other I am saying they both have there flaws, which made Bob's statement unnecessary.

I don't know how you can think Easter Devs are better than Wester and vice versa...

itt: "No my opinion is right. NO MINE. NO SHUT THE FU-"

Tbh, I think Moviebob is biased by his dislike of the game/Nathan Drake (though to be fair, fans are just as biased by their utter adoration), and came off a bit "I don't give a rat's ass what happens anyway" type of vibe. Watching cutscenes is really not the same as playing the game. Immersion is what makes games, games. I would have taken his opinion much more srsly if he had at least played through the Uncharteds.

Also, how is Nathan Drake a douchebag. Both Yahtzee (says the pot to the kettle, ammirite) and MovieBob seem to agree on this point.

I don't understand. I always thought douchebag was synonymous with "asshole".

Which Drake really is not.

He's witty, has human faults, genuinely cares about other characters (and shows it), and most of responses to problems is pretty realistic. So yeah, perhaps he has a few too many one-liners, and could be considered an overgrown frat boy sure, but really, a DOUCHEBAG?
Personally, he's my favorite new-gen character so far.

On the movie part though, I was actually very happy (initially) that David Russell was directing the movie, it's just that as of late I've been completely confused as to what the movie actually has to do with the game. Drake's immediate family has never been even mentioned in the games (haven't read Eye of Indra yet, so I don't know about that one) so the fact that Russell's basing the movie off that tangent...has me a little worried.
And yes, I'm also a bit butthurt about Wahlberg being cast. :p

He's Bob and He's a pretentious biased Nintendo/Japan loving douche that dresses up opinion as fact.

The first problem with uncharted the movie is that it's an adventure movie based on a game that's basically an homage to adventure movies.

To be true to the subject of the game is basically to rip off indianna jones, The Mummy, national treasure, and countless other films. While the charm in the game was the fact that it let you vicariously experience this style of entertainment, a film form of this will at best seem generic and at worst boring an uninspired (think Sahara)

The problem with this though is that to make it work on screen the creators have changed the feel of the stories plot, cast characters better suited to this new plot, than they were to the game, and basically tossed everything out about uncharted except it's title and character names.

It's not that this movie is bad, that remains to be seen, it's just that it's a tasteless attempt to drum up ticket sales to a movie by misleading fans of the game.

Not only that but If the movie turns out to be popular, it might cause the games developers to change future installments of game to fit this different direction of Drake, regardless of whether or not it's original fan base likes the new Nathan.

D_987:

Brian Hendershot:
Or he(joebear15) could be attempting to stop engaging in a conversation with a guy that won't stop pissing all over his opinions for no good reason like some sort demonic twelve year old troll on 4chan.

If you can't back up your opinions with any form of evidence beyond "I say so" then expect to be called out on it. If you create a post with an intentional arrogant angle "I'll pencil you in..." being such a line, then expect to get a similar response in turn. If joebear, or yourself, can't handle people responding to yourselves in kind [your post [number 249] comes across as both arrogant and lacking in purpose] then post in a different style.

You are attacking JoeBear over there like he declared that Gandhi was in fact a Martian bent on taking over the entire Milky-way as opposed to the kind hearted, peace seeking, person he was.

I'll break this down for you though and use small words so you can be sure to understand.

Joebear15 stated his opinions about video games. Opinions mind you, not facts. He didn't attack you personally or anything. He just said something that you didn't agree with, so you jumped all over him like a fat kid on candy. And I can't help but notice that it is not just JoeBear you are arguing with, but a few other people as well.

So in summary, you son, are trollin so hard, you can't even see the bridge you are under. Now take a break, make some friends, and stop fighting on the internet, cause at the end of the day, NO ONE CARES. (Yes, I realize that sentence was a grammatical nightmare.)

joebear15:

Brian Hendershot:

D_987:

I hearty apologize for posting evidence, explanations and examples of my point whilst you act cynical and child-like; I'll try harder to create posts with rash generalizations, poorly thought out logic and opinions that don't span beyond "it's bad because I said so" - like you, in the future. By all means ignore the argument, though this post sounds more like an attempt to avoid refutation of points rather than a legitimate response.

Or he(joebear15) could be attempting to stop engaging in a conversation with a guy that won't stop pissing all over his opinions for no good reason like some sort demonic twelve year old troll on 4chan.

thank you

No problem man. That dude is trollin so hard, he can't see the bridge he is living under.

joebear15:

Shjade:

D_987:

Way to just make a controversial statement without any kind of reasoning or explanation behind it to back it up...If you make a remark like that, and I think based on his previous works it pretty clear Bob's attempting to troll people, expect to get called out on it.

Do explain, just why is that comment "not wrong".

Bob's statement, paraphrased: most western games have lackluster story.

The argument people have presented: most games in general have lackluster story, western games are no worse than non-western.

That argument does not conflict with Bob's statement. Most western games have lackluster story even if most non-western games also have lackluster story.

The statement isn't wrong, you just don't like how it's phrased because it implies some other origin of games is better. Whether or not that's true is irrelevant to the majority of western games having weak (I wanted to keep repeating lackluster through the whole post to see if I could do it; I couldn't) stories.

To put it another way, if I say that gun control in Madeuplandia is terrible, you pointing out that gun control in Also Fictitioussia is just as bad does not make my statement wrong. If they're both equally terrible, then they are individually terrible as well.

Did that clear it up for you? I could try being more detailed if you need it, but it's not a complicated position.

this and on a side note the statement is backed up by the the reality of the world in witch you inhabit. if you have been a serious gamer for any period of time and do not have your head up your ass( are honest with yourself) you are aware that 99% of games have terrible stories and that a 1st grader could count the number of western games that have good stories without using his toes.(not commenting on eastern games, have not played enough of them to know if their any better)

I can't say you missed *too* much on the Easter side. The games tend to rely on awkward habits from days of old, refuse to grow the flip up, or are nonsensical. As an avid fan of Eastern games (when they get it right), I wouldn't be able to quickly name off "fantastic" stories either. Lets see...Persona 4, Drakengard (I don't care, turn THAT to a movie and you win me), and..............*Thinks about FFXIII*..........*Laughs*....

You didn't miss much.

Is Bob saying he's down on the upcoming Green Lantern movie?

May I ask why? I thought it looked good.

Brand recognition. thats all this is. thats all any of the reboots/repeats and spinoffs are. they wanna make another samey procedural cop show and maintain an audience? screw making original just make CSI:hawaii!

wanna make a movie with a plot that actually sounds pretty cool but you can offord the license to at least garuntee some major cash? do a video game movie!

My only problem is that mark whalberg is a shit actor (my opinion is fact btw :D), the story sounds like it could be at least intresting..hell itd be intresting if it all turned out to be true in Uncharted 3, seeing as how we know so little about Nate as it is

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