Zero Punctuation: Dragon Age II

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What's strange here is the "lack of consequence" argument, especially after the Deep Roads. There's a pretty big consequence. Your

As far as the plot goes, I did like the politics sense and the lack of typical fantasy OMG EPIC and how I totally killed a High Dragon but it didn't even matter because I wasn't Slaying the Dragon to Save the Princess and Inherit the Kingdom. On the other hand, at one point I genuinely asked myself, "what is it, exactly, that I'm doing here?" I guess then it made a nice change from the usual but there's a risk of losing direction.

Alex_Depth:
I have to wonder if any of the " I like DA2s story cuz its personal, and doesn't involve saving the world!" people ever played Planescape Torment.

There was a game that told an epic story about one man's past, present and future all wrapped up in one of the greatest worlds ever seen in a CRPG. Compare the Nameless one's journey of self understanding to the hollow "I want monies!" motivations of Hawke's adventure and tell me which is more compelling. If you still think the answer is DA2, I am truly sorry for you, you don't have any concept of good narrative .

QFT.

In other news, Mask of the Betrayer. Personal stories with far-reaching consequences, and absolutely amazing characterization, coupled with bouts of philosophy and really intelligent writing.

For that matter, there is also Baldur's Gate 2. The strap-line for that was "Deeper, darker, more personal.." Which is spot on. The whole thing was driven by overarching epicness, but the story was basically about a guy stealing your soul, and your desperate (and exceedingly epic) quest to get it back.. It wasn't the beginning of the Bhaalspawn saga, and it wasn't the end (Throne of Bhaal did that): it was essentially filler - it didn't do a huge amount to advance the original concepts from BG1. And yet it was probably the best of the three. Fillers don't have to be rubbish, or soulless.

I was also a bit confused by the review. Yahtzee really seemed to be phoning it in. He had only one good thing to say about the game (the character development) - he listed it as a money-grubbing whore with no plot, ridiculous camera problems, stupid waves of enemies and repetitive environments, where the devs had taken numerous short-cuts to save time, and yet there was actually very little bile or anger.

cerebus23:

Bioware and their games have sufffered what i liken to the stargate series problems, each arc in stargate was the same rehashed plot over and over change the names and events some and you got stargate sg1, stargate atlantis, for bioware you got bg, bg2, kotr, me1, me2, dao, the same plots and plot devices tweaked a bit for each game with names and places and events changed up a bit but the exact same basic story structure. not to say that they were not expertly crafted for the most part.

Explain to me how "War threatens the entire sword coast" is the same as "Someone's stolen my soul to become a god, I want it back" (BG1 v BG2). BG2 FELT epic, but the threat to the world in general wasn't that huge - eventually you're saving an elven city you've never visited before, and is hardly known about by other characters you meet in the human cities, and it's not even why you're there...

Also, you conveniently forgot Planescape: Torment, NWN1 (which DOES have a quest of the type you mention, but piles more besides), and you also forgot NWN2 (which again, does have the same problem, but has some very cool personal stuff as well - put on trial for murder...), and MoTB, which is almost entirely personal.

Silk_Sk:

Btw "Mike Hawke." Say it out loud in the library.

That fucking made my day.

That was pretty funny, as usual Yathzee manages to rant about stuff most people overlook.

Most the stuff he disliked are reasons I love DA2 though. :P

AsurasFinest:

Not when your character is supposed to be " the Champion"
It kinda defeats the point don't you think if he doesn't do something incredible to make playing him worthwhile

He stepped up, saved a city in a time of cryisis, and during a vaccuum of power. THAT justifies being called a champion. It's what heros do, in fact.

"Dragon Age Bleeeeaaauugggghhh."

A strangely appropriate title, actually...

While I will not say that DA II is better than Ps:T (that would akin to sacrilege) or MoB, it's still a good game imho. Others being better is not that bad.
Also, few agree, but I reall hated DA:O-s story. It was boring, typical and predicable, and it tried to seem so much more than it was. OH EPIC! No, it wasn't epic. Epic in fantasy has to include gods or some semi-godly creature. Not paranoid backstabbing idiots, whose backstory is about as fantasy-like as your avarage Brazilian soap opera. I can accept that "dark fantasy" equals to "realism" and "human (not the race) characters" but this does not work with epicness. Not in fantasy. DA II chose it's range much better for this kind of perspective and while the rush probably effected this part of the game as well, it's still an interesting story about a woman/man who is...well, more or less a normal human.
It's true that everyone is racist or fanatic or has some kind of defect. That has a negative impact on "reality".

That was... that was a lot of gay jokes, y'know?

I called my Hawke Bob... I'm sure the Australians will get it.

Deshin:
"YAY! NEW ZP!!

Moderator Edit: Watch the entire video before posting."

Ok, I have a legitimate question, if people are going to be put on probation for posting before the video's time-length why don't you just enable the comments 6 minutes after the video goes up? Also why is it only Zero Punctiation you set trap cards for when your other videos don't have the same problem? (Lisa Foiles, Extra Credits, etc)

I couldn't agree more. In fact, I'm not even sure why they would bother enforcing this. I also posted in this thread before watching the video. I just didn't do it in the first 6 minutes. I post on slashdot all the time without having RTFA, too. Big deal.

I thought it was a pretty good time...

I'd play anything half decent nowadays instead of another shooter. So. Sick. Of. Shooters.

Island:

Onyx Oblivion:
Not much of a story...

But I liked how the rogue actually did flips and shit. I can't recall another RPG that had rogues that actually felt nimble.

I thought I'd hate the new combat. It's actually the only reason I keep playing...

I always play a rouge its my favorite class, but the rouges were just to weak in this game. i had to play a warrior, and that was disappointing.

What about picking locks? Do they limit rogues to that in the 2nd game like they did in the first? Because that was the only reason I chose to go rogue.

Silk_Sk:
Anyone else hearing this weird woodpeckerish sound in the background?

Btw "Mike Hawke." Say it out loud in the library.

Genius!

The Gentleman:
If the backlash is any indication, "knobbing off" would not have been the most popular subtitle for this game...

I thought he said "gobbing off" not knobbing.

Gob is colloquial for mouth.

I apologise if someone has already brought this up or if I'm wrong.

So yesterday I started to watch this, and then got a little bored so I switched to something else. Today I gave it another go, and made it to the end.

I must say, much like the game Yahtzee is reviewing, this video gets much better by the end.

When will he be reviewing Call of Crysis: Modern Nanosuit you ask?

Silk_Sk:
Anyone else hearing this weird woodpeckerish sound in the background?

Oh good, I'm not the only one. It sounds like a coded message to me, to be perfectly honest, starting sometime after 3 minutes in...a bunch of low tones in alternating long and short bursts like Morse code. My hearing isn't good enough to tell if that's right though, I can't discern the tone from the rest of the sound at points.

OT: I have to agree with Yahtzee on every front here, luckily I didn't buy this game...I'm glad a friend of mine did and let me play it for a bit.

Actually, rouges are overpowered and since cunninc and dextreity are their two main skills (with cunning used for opening locks: 10:easy, 20:medium 30:hard or something like that up to 40 or 50, I don't remember)cunning increases the critical damage and dexterity the critical chance (and the attack). So, by the end of the game I just activated a bunch of speed increasing modes for varric and watched as he single handedly killed anything or anyone.
You can also backstab and use undetectable invisibility (enemies as well, though they are also invulnerable when cloaked, dunno if you own guys are too).

grimner:
Let's take the good: there's precious little at fault with the story itself.

Except for the small point of it ending on a cliffhanger because they wanted to microtransact you into paying more to find out what 'really' happened. And that the story is 99% the same no matter what your Hawke does and dialog options s/he picks. And it's plain weird and OTT B-movie stuff. Give me Origins' cliches anytime over exploding chantries.

grimner:
The combat is also mostly fun. We should NOT have to always compensate for a new wave of enemies in the middle of a fight, but it becomes a minor nuisance once we learn that it's to be expected.

No it's not just the waves. It's the spawning in mid air. It's the fact that the game tries to be an action game ... using a vestigial semi-turn based mechanic from Origins. Ends up being just a chaotic mess where you desperately flail around trying to use the combos, but can't see properly or time them properly. Using the AoE is just random luck because the enemies move stupidly fast and the targetting area UI is glitched (snaps into places it 'likes'). Boss battles take 25 minutes, so if you are on NM and need to reload 3 or 4 times it is a frustrating, mind numbing chore.

grimner:
As it stands, DA2 is one of the best RPGS out there. But, on the strengths of his story alone, it could have SOARED. Sadly, bioware rushed it, released it in the same engine as Origins,

Sorry, but you must have played seriously different RPGs to me (or this is some level of sarcasm I do not grasp). This game is Sacred 2 -level bad. Rushing it was not the main problem. They gutted out 50% of typical RPG mechanics (which is a big deal, since last time I checked, BW made R-P-G's). They made an art style based on some anime cartoon with stupid exploding enemies and JRP combat moves. The plot and dialog is clearly aimed at young emo teens (in BW's insane bid to get the Call of Duty audience interested in orcs and sorcery). Basically BW lost the plot on almost every level. In no conceivable way is this just a question of bugs and recycled areas - the rot goes waaay deeper.

Just for the record, the Escapist disagrees:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/reviews/8701-Dragon-Age-II-Review

I'd also like to point out that Yahtzee is a cynical bastard (I still love him!), and if you go into any game looking for cut corners, that's all you're going to see. I get the gripe about the reused dungeons, but I'd bet my financial aid check that that was solely the result of a short development window. If the price for the awesome dialog and amazingly well-developed characters is a few repetitive dungeons, then I'll gladly pay it.

X51:
Just for the record, the Escapist disagrees:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/reviews/8701-Dragon-Age-II-Review

I'd also like to point out that Yahtzee is a cynical bastard (I still love him!), and if you go into any game looking for cut corners, that's all you're going to see. I get the gripe about the reused dungeons, but I'd bet my financial aid check that that was solely the result of a short development window. If the price for the awesome dialog and amazingly well-developed characters is a few repetitive dungeons, then I'll gladly pay it.

Thing is, if I wanted just awesome dialog and well-developed characters (and I say just as there's nothing wrong with that, just if that's all there is), I could pay $5 and rent a movie...

For the case on rushing it out, seems to be the trend with time being focused on marketing and DLC. I knew there was some in DA2, but never how much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMcVZQI6ybw

It's a trend that I hope stops sooner than later. I didn't like hats (yes hats) taking over my TeamFortress2 and stopping new gameplay development.

grimner:

AsurasFinest:

Not when your character is supposed to be " the Champion"
It kinda defeats the point don't you think if he doesn't do something incredible to make playing him worthwhile

He stepped up, saved a city in a time of cryisis, and during a vaccuum of power. THAT justifies being called a champion. It's what heros do, in fact.

Here's a though after mentioning the DLC. If there was all that DLC already ready at the time of release.... how can they say they were short of time and had to cut and paste the dungeons??

Seems more like putting DLC and money ahead of the original content you already paid for in buying the game. That's a nasty trend.

samaugsch:

Island:

Onyx Oblivion:
Not much of a story...

But I liked how the rogue actually did flips and shit. I can't recall another RPG that had rogues that actually felt nimble.

I thought I'd hate the new combat. It's actually the only reason I keep playing...

I always play a rouge its my favorite class, but the rogues were just to weak in this game. i had to play a warrior, and that was disappointing.

What about picking locks? Do they limit rogues to that in the 2nd game like they did in the first? Because that was the only reason I chose to go rogue.

yeah only rogues can pick locks, but you can keep a rogue in your party that well pick locks for you.

Didn't have any problems with loading, even playing on my laptop. Yeah, preferred DA1, the dungeon recycling didn't bother me that much, and I don't even know why people are bitching about this when Oblivion had the same problem, only 100x worse. I did enjoy DA1 though, the characters were more involving and interesting, and the villains truly seemed like villains.

Even though a story based closer around a character and his personal happenings was a breath of fresh air from the usual "save the world from total utter tragedy" fare.

Island:

samaugsch:

Island:

I always play a rouge its my favorite class, but the rogues were just to weak in this game. i had to play a warrior, and that was disappointing.

What about picking locks? Do they limit rogues to that in the 2nd game like they did in the first? Because that was the only reason I chose to go rogue.

yeah only rogues can pick locks, but you can keep a rogue in your party that well pick locks for you.

I know that, but in the first game, if I didn't go rogue (I like saying that :P), I wouldn't be able to open some of the chests early in the game at all because I wouldn't be able to get one in my party at the moment. I always liked to make my party completely diverse ;D (a warrior, a rogue, a mage, and a war hound). What I wanted to know is if there's a moment in Dragon Age 2 where there is absolutely no way to pick a lock because you couldn't get a rogue in your party unless you started out as one.

samaugsch:

Island:

samaugsch:

What about picking locks? Do they limit rogues to that in the 2nd game like they did in the first? Because that was the only reason I chose to go rogue.

yeah only rogues can pick locks, but you can keep a rogue in your party that well pick locks for you.

I know that, but in the first game, if I didn't go rogue (I like saying that :P), I wouldn't be able to open some of the chests early in the game at all because I wouldn't be able to get one in my party at the moment. I always liked to make my party completely diverse ;D (a warrior, a rogue, a mage, and a war hound). What I wanted to know is if there's a moment in Dragon Age 2 where there is absolutely no way to pick a lock because you couldn't get a rogue in your party unless you started out as one.

in the very first part there is a time where you don't have a rogue companion, but its only a really short section of the game.

Tontomanzz:

X51:
Just for the record, the Escapist disagrees:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/reviews/8701-Dragon-Age-II-Review

I'd also like to point out that Yahtzee is a cynical bastard (I still love him!), and if you go into any game looking for cut corners, that's all you're going to see. I get the gripe about the reused dungeons, but I'd bet my financial aid check that that was solely the result of a short development window. If the price for the awesome dialog and amazingly well-developed characters is a few repetitive dungeons, then I'll gladly pay it.

Thing is, if I wanted just awesome dialog and well-developed characters (and I say just as there's nothing wrong with that, just if that's all there is), I could pay $5 and rent a movie...

For the case on rushing it out, seems to be the trend with time being focused on marketing and DLC. I knew there was some in DA2, but never how much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMcVZQI6ybw

It's a trend that I hope stops sooner than later. I didn't like hats (yes hats) taking over my TeamFortress2 and stopping new gameplay development.

It's not *just* the dialog and characters, but your interactions with them. It's getting to know Merrill, and being shocked by her innocence in the face of what you first discover about her. It's standing up for your sister when Fenris goes on an anti-mage rant. It's butting heads with religious zealots and conniving politicians. Or, you don't have to do any of it! You can reject Merrill as a monster. You can throw your sister under the bus and agree with Fenris. You can play toady to the religious leader and increase your own power and influence with which to stab them in the back later.

Regarding DLC, Dragon Age 2 isn't nearly as bad as other games. Most of the DLC are items, and they're mostly free (not counting some of your free time), and are hardly essential to the content of the game (you'll be replacing most of the items by level 12 or so anyway). It is admittedly lame that a full character is left out of the main game, but the same was true for DA:O.

Dead on Yahtzee, as always! :D
But yeah I mean what were they expecting the feedback to be like when all the devs did was to showcase us an unfinished version of a sequel half-arsedly put together in a sh*t scenario.
I call Dragon Age II the "Vista of Dragon Age Series" because of this. ^^

Kudos ! youve done it again , articulate much more eloquently that which I was feeling myself,, this game is a TURD !!!!

Hahaha, "Freud Freud".

Epic Review. See people. Even Yahtzee hated the game. This is the worse game in bioware history of games. It funny how BioWare seems to think if it not Mass Effect. Mass Effected it. It as if Dragon Age 2 caught some nasty Virus before it was even launched. Wonder if this means Star Wars old republic will be just as bad.
Would say Mass Effect 3 will most likly be bad but oh wait it already Mass Effected.

Still Mass Effect 2 was very much shit. Main Story plot. You got for repear killing bad ass to corpse and baby sister. To a rag tag team of Regects with a few worthy members. Only to find out 75% of your crew are not loyal until you stop their family problems.

Yahtzee you edited the sound too fast, it's barely understandable.

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