the_green_dragon:

You had to go to the companion's house to be able to really chat with them, that actually annoyed me even more then the camp thing, at least at camp they were all in one place rather then making me hike halfway across town and back (thru 3 or 4 loading screens)

That's what I meant sorry, I'm talking about dragon age 2, going to Ander's clinic was always a complete chore.

Dragon age origins was better because you could talk to them anywhere, and only some cut-scenes were restricted to camp.

rsvp42:

Canadish:

I think the problem is that it never FELT epic or monumental.
You just had another fight with a big guy in a grey boxy room. And then its just kind of over.

And once you are Champion? Doesnt matter. No "Power" like the trailer suggests. No influence on plot, your choices are just as meaningless.
People just call you "Champion" instead of "Hawke". Which kind of makes forcing you into being a Human even less beneficial.

While I can understand your experience I can't say mine was the same. It's clearly been a pretty divisive game, so it has failed insofar as providing a universally enjoyable experience (at least when compared to Origins). I personally like most of the changes and don't lament any features that were lost in translation, but this is just a case where my opinion doesn't agree with a lot of others.

As for the race selection, I don't see it as being "forced" since it was done for story reasons. That being a said, the same game with more VO to support a wider variety in character creation would be cool, but to do that right, you need a lot more VO. I remember Yahtzee's review of DA:O and he pointed out how pointless the origins and race selection felt since they all merge into essentially the same story, with a few lines spattered here and there ("you're an elf!") to support it. I much prefer a game that fully supports its one race really well and ties dialogue and story points into that than one that throws a few token options in and barely mentions them. Personally, I liked the way DA:O handled it, but they weren't grappling with player character VO, so they had a little more freedom in that sense.

The problem with always thinking that more options is better is that it almost doesn't allow studios to tell smaller stories anymore. I love an epic tale as much as the next guy, but a well-crafted story with a smaller scope can be really cool too. I don't need to have unlimited options in an RPG to enjoy the world and the story, so I'd hate for BioWare to think they can never tell that kind of story. Will we as players always accuse any such story choice as laziness?

Whats tragic here, is that I strongly agree with your points. I've felt the same thing, the industry is pushing for nothing but "da most epic story eva!".
What I was worried about with Dragon Age 2, and what DA2 ended up being, was that "a smaller more focused story" translated to "We're adding half the content", rather then being a more focused and deeper, personal story.

I understand that how much someone connects to and enjoys a plot is subjective, but I really didnt feel "Hawke's Rise to Power" was more focused. It was not deeper. It was a little more personal near the start, but you cant avoid what happens to Hawke's family, and so the connection is broken. Those "tragic" moments didnt feel tragic like in Origins dark moments, because in Origins I knew I could have avoided them, I could have done better. DA2 just felt contrived, like a Soap Opera.
Overall, it confirmed my fears that Bioware just cut content (probably EA giving them less time, telling them to just add $10 DLC) and then got Mike Laidlaw to tell everyone it was "more focused". The whole thing felt like marketing spin and that we consumers got taken for a ride.
I think thats why so many are pissed off about this game.

The fact the Origins Lead Designer walked off the project says alot to me.
I hate to mention someone in particular, but Mike Laidlaw (new Lead designer) just struck me as a greasy used car salesman, trying to trick us into a purchase, rather then a passionate games developer who wanted to make something great that would sell on its merits.

Arcticflame:

the_green_dragon:

You had to go to the companion's house to be able to really chat with them, that actually annoyed me even more then the camp thing, at least at camp they were all in one place rather then making me hike halfway across town and back (thru 3 or 4 loading screens)

That's what I meant sorry, I'm talking about dragon age 2, going to Ander's clinic was always a complete chore.

Dragon age origins was better because you could talk to them anywhere, and only some cut-scenes were restricted to camp.

Hey, totally, and how about Avaline and her stupid office at the Viscount's place? I mean when did she EVER actually get any work done in there? She was with me the whole time.

danpascooch:

Worgen:
personally I kind of liked how you didnt have some huge world ending plot and it was more about your life.... altho they certainly could have done a better job at that and the endless baddies did get old, I mean you would think at least the dogs would have some self preservation instinct

It really did get ridiculous after a while, I would be walking around hightown with OTHER PEDESTRIANS strolling peacefully, suddenly I'm attacked and they don't even run, just continue walking quietly by while arrows and fireballs made of demon-magic-killthefuckoutofyou fly over their heads.

I was not a fan of this game, it's fine if you want to tell the story of his life and not of a world threatening event, but then don't split it so clearly into 3 sections with three big conflicts as if you're using some sort of story-stencil.

my main problem with it aside from the random fights in front of guards was that, what the hell is happening to you during those 3 years that the game doesnt follow you? I mean it would have been really cool if you could have set something that your char was working on so there was a reason you werent being jumped in the streets by gangs of 40 muggers at a time

the games okay...I also guess it's nice to hear that yahtzees getting some man meat. some real protein right their. (I am so getting put on probation)

danpascooch:

mechanixis:
Dragon Age 2 is definitely a game that requires certain expectations and a certain mindset to enjoy. If you go in wanting an epic, overarching plotline, you'll be disappointed. If you play a Hawke who doesn't fit the narrative Bioware's laid out for him, you'll be disappointed. If you want traditional tactical combat, you'll be disappointed. If you happen to stumble into the weakest branches of the branching narrative or have the key scenes of the story fouled by bugs, you'll be disappointed.

Personally, I liked the departure from the epic overarching plot; I enjoyed the story less and less the more epic it became. It was nice as a story about a refugee making his way in the world and rising from abject poverty (though that said, after Act 1 the poverty problem was put to rest and your motivation gets a little hazy.)

And I have to disagree that this is just a shameless cash-in sequel. Obviously there's some of that; game design is still a business. But I have a hard time believing that Bioware doesn't genuinely care about Dragon Age or this whole world they've pieced together. I think the sloppy design comes more from a rushed development cycle than anything else - if they'd had another year to design more environments and iron out bugs, the game would definitely be much better.

So the mindset I need to go in with is: "I didn't need that $60 anyway?"

I find it a bit odd how you say it was not a cash in, but that the sloppy design comes from rushed development

Why do you think they rushed development and cut corners? Because a wizard made them?

Hostile much? What I'm saying is, for me, Dragon Age 2 happened to be the best experience I've had with a Bioware game since the original Mass Effect, and it's a shame I'm in the minority for that. But the way it's designed pretty much guarantees people's experiences will be all over the place.

And really, the people writing the game don't set the deadlines and release schedules. That's done by the marketing execs, and obviously their primary interested is profits. That's their job. But to say that the creative team didn't care is pretty hard to back up; they obviously invested a lot in fleshing out the world and characters. Dragon Age 2 was developed in one year - Origins was developed in seven. They cut corners due to pragmatism, not apathy. It's pretty fair to say that if these people had been given another six months, they gladly would have added a few more caves and everyone would be happy.

sadly i mostly agree with this vid...

i finished it last night and well... even if its supposed to be "a more personal story"
you become champion... ok cool, you pick a side... ok cool, you kill EVERYONE ANYWAY... lame

by the end of the game the threads you weave dont even matter.

at least with origins when you meet a fellow player you can have these massive convosations about how you played it.... dragon age 2 wont have this :(

very funnay as always. Hes the best reviewer ever

Why is it all british people in video games at the moment are being voiced by the same condescending tit? Both Hawke and the annoying british Helghast are voiced by the same guy. Is there going to be an uprising soon and the UK become the next target for the USA's bombs because they're just so clever and witty but all so condescending and we just dont get it so there for they must be destroyed? Great review though. Spot on!

Thespian:

Calibretto:

Mainly because your boring. If you enjoy your office job good for you, some people like reaching for the stars.

Please tell me what office job involves tracking down a serial killer necromancer, quelling an uprising of foreign monsters, blowing up gigantic statues representing the oppression of a race animated by a demented power hungry knight commander hellbent over a magical amulet using the statues to physically accomplish what they metaphorically represent whilst a bunch of robed monks blast fireballs at it to-
Okay, you get the point. Hawke's life was exciting but not as lamely cliché. Plus it suits Dragon Age a lot better since the game is more or less built around the "pissing around" mechanic. Think about it: The majority of Epic RPGs like this consist of side quests that have about as much to do with the main storyline as wit does with the screen writing of Two and a Half Men and yes that was forced but who cares, I hate the show :/ My point is, when you are the last Grey Warden and thus the only one capable of saving the World there's an over hanging guilt whenever I'm chasing around a thief who took a rich dwarf's pocket change, and a sense that there should perhaps be something more important to do.
In Dragon Age II however, the side quests are what make up Hawke's day-to-day lives and are weaved seamlessly into the character development (see the aforementioned necromancer serial killer quest) not to mention building up a reputation in the city of Kirkwall. The Main Quests come to you instead of vice versa and even though I have a feeling that all of this came about due to rushed dev time and hastened writing, it worked very well. If Bioware actually tried to accomplish this in a new game, they'd be dangerous. A concentrated story following the fate of Kirkwall, instead of a huge nation is much more focussed and thus, affective.
Plus, you get to live in a Mansion and have everyone call you "Champion". How is that Not aiming for the stars?

Falseprophet:

I agree, and I liked most of the companions and especially their banter. But I have to agree with the people who say it needed another 6-12 months dev time to make it great. I'm sad the brilliant storytelling potential is being overshadowed by lazy gameplay choices, and the plot kind of falls apart at the end. I found this review to be the fairest I've read.

I also enjoyed the characters more than any other non-gameplay element, as usual with Bioware. I can't deny that it could have used another year or so very well, however. The plot did seem sloppily finished, and the ending was not nearly as satisfying as one would have hoped.

Pretty much this.

Bioware and their games have sufffered what i liken to the stargate series problems, each arc in stargate was the same rehashed plot over and over change the names and events some and you got stargate sg1, stargate atlantis, for bioware you got bg, bg2, kotr, me1, me2, dao, the same plots and plot devices tweaked a bit for each game with names and places and events changed up a bit but the exact same basic story structure. not to say that they were not expertly crafted for the most part.

Then you get stargate universe and dragon age 2, sgu i think is the best stargate since the early sg1 seasons, and is a hell of a lot more interesting with better characters than i can recall in awhile. but the old sg fanbois hated it, not enough stargates where is the big god wannabe baddies? this is not stargate! and the show suffered because of all the hate they heaped upon it.

dragon age 2 has the unending nerve to break the typical bioware story mold, and try something new, and omg the haters will hate. yes the game is far form perfect the lack of levels is inexcuasable especially in the second game in a engine they have worked with. but the story works it works better than DAO by far, it works better than ME1 and ME2 in that i never was far less taken out of the story by the thought that why am i rescuing kittens and old ladies purses while the entire universe is going to be obliterated like in a few hours? why am i having to solve the problems of the dwarves and the elves and the entire city of denerim while the entire nation is supposedly going to wiped off the face of the earth, why the hell is everyone asking me to run around and solve their personal problems? and why was the hole darkspawn showdown so anticlimatic?

the lack of that impending and overarching doom in da2 was refreshing and more natural and more immersive. you are simply helping your friends doing the occasional odd job, while events unfold around you and you get caught up in them. even if you are aware of the problems what are you going to to do lead an army on the templars or mages? you can offer to become king but your are an immigrant and have a tad too shadey past to really make a serious run, nm al the factions you utterly pissed off on your journey along the road of fame and fortune.

And at the end of da2 your actions and the events that have unfolded arguably are more world changing, then all the events in DAO.

Really liked the point about the plot, that's what really bugged me about the game. I assume Yahtzee was playing on a console, though, the PC controls were fine. Also, the graphics are much better.

Wow. I reviewed this game recently, it's scary how close his opinion is to mine.

Seriously, the #1 reason not to buy this game is the lack of plot. The three acts of the game are only tangentially connected with each other, and your choices in the first two mean nothing in the end. The last act comes right out of nowhere, and is the only actual IMPORTANT part of the game. It's 30 hours of meaningless combat leading up to 3 hours of actual story.

And you thought FF13 was bad.

More importantly, there is no antagonist in the entire game. Mass Effect had Saren, ME2 has the Collectors, Dragon Age has the Blight. This game has... being poor, and even that goes away after the first act. Act 2, you're only doing quests because shut up. Act 3, you get roped into a power struggle of sorts, and both sides are horrible, horrible choices, with no real reason for you to be involved.

Here's something else that annoyed me. During the time skips, Hawke does not get more actual in-game wealth. She does does not get experience. She does not age. I can only assume that during the time-skips she is cryogenically frozen for years. The time skips could have been filled with gameplay, even generic dungeons, or even just giving levels and gold. Instead, we get... nothing. Great.

Dragon Age 2 is a wonderful game to play if you want to see first-hand the worst of what modern RPGs are like. Foul gameplay, no plot, and bland visuals. Perhaps you disagree, and if you enjoyed this game, then good for you. I simply did not enjoy Dragon Age 2 at all.

Some good jokes and clever insight, but not much depth. I suppose I didn't get a feel for the game because there's no footage and it doesn't go into the game mechanics at all.

Well, I guess this explains all the whining on the forums over the last couple of weeks.

rsvp42:

But I agree with your overall point, mainly that BioWare should not throw the baby out with the bathwater for the next game. They need a perfect fusion of the two: a personal story with the great visual design and action-packed combat, but with the longer, wider-reaching quest style of the first, with more unique environments and an overall goal that ties all the main story quests together (player character VO is optional, but I like it, so whatever).

A little kowtowing to the "hardcore" RPG crowd is fine, with some more customization in terms of outfitting the party, but only if it makes sense. In DA2, all the companions are basically doing their own thing, so it makes sense they would dress themselves.

Exactly. This game should not be immune to criticism, as it is certainly very flawed. And most of the criticism is lost by the fact that people spewing them are foaming at the mouth and generally incoherent.

Let's take the good: there's precious little at fault with the story itself. It might not seem as "evil god wants to destroy the world", but it has a feel of a turbulent time, with templars quietly overstepping their bounds, Qunari looking in contempt at the civilization of Kirkwall, and mages screaming for vengeance in increasingly loud tones. Perfect set up for a major scale conflict. Like Cassana says to varric right at the beginning, Hawke's actions led the world to the brink of war, and throughout the game, the reasons are very well explained.

The combat is also mostly fun. We should NOT have to always compensate for a new wave of enemies in the middle of a fight, but it becomes a minor nuisance once we learn that it's to be expected. Tactics and micromanagement are the PC's turf, but the consoles do a pretty ok job at coping and keeping track of what's going on.

Which leaves us with several negatives that can be boiled to one: A sense of confinement. This includes the same sets being used and reused over and over again, and a city that is too static and doesn't "respond" to the events. Quite frankly, if I saw a sword fight in my vicinity, let alone fireballs hurled from fingertips, I'd run as fast as I could, and not sit blindly in my store while magical fire rained all around me. Likewise, the poweres we use on the skill tree should be acknowledge in canon. I mean, what's the point of ranting against blood magic when Hawke gets a clear free pass at it?

This could easily be solved by creating a semi dynamic world in the moulds of assassin's creed. We'd faff about, collected quests, explored the city, have key characters or places trigger events just like both games do. If a quest led to say, a showdown on a back alley, it would be conveniently deserted. if it was in daylight and merrill or hawke used blood, it would have consequences (and some system could be defined to set those consequencies, or at least, from a certain point onward, have them be explained. Simple as Hawke gaining some shielding for his social status and not having the ability to use blood magic until AFTER he becomes champion at such time, the people were even more willing to give him and his friends a blind eye or too afraid to defy him openly. If he gained templar abilities, have him learn them from say, Samson. Simple way to explain the small incongruences.)

Similarly, the passage of time was well done in act one. As we progressed quests more would become available giving a sense of flow in time. Just apply it to a city that feels dynamic.

Simply put, imagine Assassin's creed's Rome, and all the quests of the game happened there. You had a homebase, were really rarely attacked during daytime (if you were, the streets would naturally clear off while the fight took over, or have most encounters behind closed doors), quests would be given and solved in keyplaces of that world map. Everything else stayed the same, from the GREAT plot, to the cool battles, and obviously, the dialogue system.

As it stands, DA2 is one of the best RPGS out there. But, on the strengths of his story alone, it could have SOARED. Sadly, bioware rushed it, released it in the same engine as Origins, who was not quite ready to depict a whole city and then have us live there. That's how I'd put the franchise back to the drawing board if I were them. Mixing AssCreed's free roaming with baldurs Gate combact tactics and Bioware's talent at making characters and making us feel like we own, rather than watch, the story unfold? It's all well within the confines of current technology. And would blow neatly every RPG out of the water.

I think Yahtzee just became one of my best friends right now! plus it is truth there's some resemblance between the ME2 and DA2 main characters...

HAHAHAHA!!!!! Aw man, I almost fell put of my chair with that bit at the very end in the dinner. That was pure awesome!! ^_^

I still think this is way better than the first one.

SpiderJerusalem:
Oh look, Yahtzee is recycling the same dull, easily countered points that every Dragon Age 2 hater has been spouting for the past month without fail. CRITICISM, you has it!

Seriously though, no plot? I guess you could see it that way if you spent all the time in game thinking of lame, slightly offending gay jokes to be edgy instead of, oh I don't know, listening in on the characters or following the story. Shocking, I know.

The camera didn't follow your direction in DA:O either, nor did the party members automatically heal themselves in any way - but that was OK to the Origins elitists, because it was all about micromanaging! Now, even though it's exactly the same, it's suddenly dumbed down and herpderp.

Luckily the drooling masses are happy to move on with their hate faster than the Big Brother crowd, so I'm guessing by the time the first DLC for Dragon Age 2 comes out the only people who'll care are the fans of the game - which is about 95% of the gaming populace.

Honestly...? Your getting very defensive of the game. Why so serious?
The use of the word "Hate" is getting thrown around way to much. I doubt many "hate" the game, but I think the majority are let down by Bioware, to different extents.
I've yet to hear a reasoned argument that puts the game in a good light. Only justifications for why it turned out as it did (A big let down).

This game is so much worse that Origins that i don't know where to begin from. Yahtzee is dead right on this one.

I liked DA2, but I gotta admit that Yahtzee is pretty much right. In retrospect, the story of Thedas as a whole didn't really advance all that much.

I never thought a single video could sum up every single problem I had with this game whilst playing through it.

Even the fact that your mom apparently has tits the size of volleyballs was addressed.

Well done Sir. Well done.

I really enjoyed DA2 but found it hard to disagree with a lot of that, apart from the bit about combat - I had several irritating moments where I would be aiming the camera at someone's chest rather than their health bar so it thought I wasn't targeting anything, but none of the other problems.

I know the first two-thirds of the game's story were almost totally inconsequential and the final third was just setting up for a third, but I was so hooked on the companions and their stories I didn't really mind.

Actually I don't think they limited the character selection so you would be addressed by name, it was so they could give the character a voice, something you have said made characters more identifiable than they otherwise would be, I think you cited Saints Row or its sequel as livening up your experience with the presence of a voice. And I like the wheel dialogue option method, "Origins" died out of the gate with me because my guy didn't talk, and the characters that did were so whiny and derivative that I couldn't stand them... Maybe it was best he didn't speak... and the gameplay was like a busier Warcraft layout (waste of 50 bucks).

Pretty much agreed with Yahtzee. The dialogue (and its speakers) is brilliant and what keeps me coming back to the game. The rest is McDonalds... tasty the first time, repetitive and uninspired the remaining 100 times.
I didn't find the story itself bad, it's a perfectly good story. It's just really badly told. (As opposed to Dragon Age 1 (aka Origins and expansions), which had a pathetically trashy cliche story, but was well told). The time skips may have looked like a good idea on paper, but they ruined the build up.

I just hope it really was Dragon Age: Intermission, because half of the quests certainly felt like nothing but a set up for another game.

Bravo. I would have rather paid 40 quid for this review rather than that fucking awful game.

Too bad he didn't like it, I was sort of expecting him to say he loves it, just to piss of the constantly complaining fanboys. That being said, I'm still getting the game and Mass Effect 3 as well.

You know...I really love DA2, I didn't really like the 1st game cos'It just was so frustrating sometimes. An yet I aint even mad at Yahtzee bashing DA2. Everything he said is true, Yes he focuses on the negative aspects but this is ZP not Some "Cinematic Compelling review" you can get from any site. I still love DA2, to be honest, although everything he says is true, The game is still good. That shows character (In a game).
P.S The flak people are giving Bioware for the conversation system is only partially deserved. There are so few games which do conversation systems definitvely better (I can only think of Alpha Protocol, which wasn't great overall anyway.)

-End Rant

[Gavo]:
Really liked the point about the plot, that's what really bugged me about the game. I assume Yahtzee was playing on a console, though, the PC controls were fine. Also, the graphics are much better.

He also complained about loading while load times were only three seconds compared to one minute in Origins.

But I actually liked the structure of the plot. I liked how it wasn't epic, just a guy trying to make a name for himself who gets involved in a bunch of political conflicts. The ending definitely was sequel bait but they rounded up the conflict in Kirkwall to introduce more adventures to come.

My biggest complaints are the recycled levels and the fact that characters don't age. I expected Isabela to have back problems by the time the last act starts.

Thespian:
Everything he said here was true, but it was also what I liked about the game. I prefer a story that's just about some Refugee guy who's life is fucked up and gets a few lucky breaks and then makes a name for himself. Why does it have to be more? Why must the fate of EVERYTHING EVER constantly rest on THE ONE LAST HOPE OF EVERYTHING EVER? Okay, so if every story was about some random guy trying to make it in the world we'd get bored, but I thought DAII was a nice refreshing perspective. There was no good or evil, just several displaced political groups and a desperate need for some coin.

This. A hundred times, this.

No doubt DA2 has numerous shortcomings, and suffered from an apparently overly-short development cycle. But I still can't help but enjoy it, simply because it's such a refreshing change from the One True Hero saving the entire universe from the Ancient Evil (TM).

This review was brilliant, while I do think some people really wanted to make a quality game they were overruled in the rush to make a sequel to a 5 year game in 18 months. This would have be hilarious if so many of the problems weren't so true.