Zero Punctuation: Pokemon White

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jak1165:

Coldster:

LeonLethality:

I wasn't preaching, I just got carried away with my response. I know you were on my side.

Competitive Pokemon is the main course of Pokemon for me.

When you were six did you play competitively? If you are just playing through the "story" there is no strategy needed. You could have a horrible nature and still make your way through with little effort, it's competitive play that involves all the strategy.

I agree, but competitive play was not around when I was six so stop misinterpreting my statement.

So don't make any more stupid posts because its pretty clear from reading your posts that the 20-ish year old version of yourself doesn't have a better grasp of Pokemon than the 6-year old version of yourself.

I don't understand where your going with this, please make it more clear. Also I'm sixteen but it's not like you were off by at least four years.

samaugsch:

LeonLethality:

Caliostro:

In chess both players have 16 pieces, and a 64 square board, with very specific movement constraints for each piece.

In card games, the ones taken seriously that I can remember at least, the players hands aren't showing.

Pokemon is like a chess match with 2 lanes and 1 queen each, or a poker game where everyone's hands are showing. It's not "strategy", it's memorizing a spread sheet.

In Pokemon you have six Pokemon, each with an ability, stats and four moves. with nigh infinite combinations. There is a huge amount of strategy involved, who to lead with, what moves to give a Pokemon to counter its weakness, how one Pokemon in a team can compliment another, how to counter someone who has their bases covered as well, what EVs to give to a Pokemon. There is a lot more strategy to a Pokemon battle than there is to Chess. Go in to a competitive battle without any strategy and watch how well your spread sheet memorization works.

Alternatively, you can have one ridiculously strong Pokemon that can one-hit kill all of your opponent's Pokemon.

Nope.

Any meaningful battle is always with everyone being the same level. Even the AI in game ones cut your level down so it'll be equal.

All you're talking about here is in-game trainers controlled by the AI, not human players who play with everything at lvl 100 and use the best specimens of every species.

samaugsch:

Alternatively, you can have one ridiculously strong Pokemon that can one-hit kill all of your opponent's Pokemon.

Depends mainly on how well you built your sweeper and how good the opponent's team is at countering it. In most cases having one pokemon to take out the entire team is not going to cut it, because if they take it down you have no options left.

Also as the above person stated you are all scaled down to the same level.

I REGRET NOTHING!

But anyway, a good episode, I can say that my love of the series cannot be scratched by his review. It's part of the reason me and my girlfriend met and that's still going strong.

Yet you still seem to be having difficulty

Coldster:

jak1165:

Coldster:

I agree, but competitive play was not around when I was six so stop misinterpreting my statement.

So don't make any more stupid posts because its pretty clear from reading your posts that the 20-ish year old version of yourself doesn't have a better grasp of Pokemon than the 6-year old version of yourself.

I don't understand where your going with this, please make it more clear. Also I'm sixteen but it's not like you were off by at least four years.

There seems to be a lot you don't quite understand. Don't worry, it appears you aren't alone

Maclennan:
Heres the question he missed, what do the people in that world eat since every animal and most of the damn plants are pokemon?

I think a miltank would be quite tasty. Pikachu would probably be kind of stringy. They will probably resort to "iceberg lebtuce" soon.

There have been many speculations of this topic... I personally think that Char(mander)grilled Miltank steak would be wonderful paired with a bit of Oddish Salad

Vault Citizen:

mrhateful:
Pokemon is an awful game, I only played red pokemon in elementary school because it was the only game that was any good on the gameboy color.

If Pokemon was aweful how could red be the only game on the system that was any good? I would have thought that aweful and any good contradict one another

Its because of relativity, it just means that gameboy games was really bad. Yes Red pokemon was good in relativity to other games.. Just like 2 is a good grade if everyone else has gotten -3

jak1165:

Swifteye:

jak1165:

Derp

You do realize your not supposed to make low content post right? And what does derp even mean?

You do realize your post is stupid right? Durrrr da game haznt changed....

Well, no the premise hasn't changed. But if we stick to your narrow and misinformed definition, I guess there's no reason to play any other Mario game besides the NES one that came out 25 years ago. Or Metal Gear Solid 2, 3, or 4....or just about any game with a sequel

Look here. When it comes to sequels and nintendo's in paticular. The games really don't change. the core gameplay is the same. the situation is pretty much the same. And the story is also pretty much the same. One could say this for a lot of games and they would be right most of the time the games don't change. The only real cure for this problem is to either add something dynamic to the fold. Or just make minute changes that appeal to the fans. And guess what most people especially nintendo do? minute changes. Now this isn't bad if you really like the game. Say for instance I like the dynasty warriors series. All that game is about version to version is minute changes. That does it for me. But guess how non fans treat the game?

Disgust, disinterest, generally cutting the game by it's knees and giving it the what for in reviews. Unlike dynasty warriors though pokemon has garnered much more fans so the minute changes have more value. What are the minute changes for pokemon? Adding more pokemon obviously. Making things look nicer. Changing purely cosmetic things like where you are or who the gyms are or who the bad guy is. And then the little mini games that are completely expendable and change from game to game. This does it for the fans. But not for me. Not anymore. Because I am not a fan but not a genuine hater I'd just like to see something truly novel done with the game so much so I could really write some ideas right now if I wasn't busy doing that for something else but because you'd like me to be in depth with my opinion here goes some simple things.

A plot that has very little to do with catching pokemon: Instead of catching pokemon you instead observe them. Breed them. interact with them say the way the player character interacts with there digimon in digimon world one the game. So far pokemon talks a big game about you and your pokemon but they never become too much more than weapons to arm yourself in the random fights against random people.

create a gang war situation with all the previous gangs struggling for supremacy: All the islands feel like they are next to each other in a ways so honestly I don't see how the gangs like rocket and such aren't fighting each other viciously over whatever project they've tried to impede on.

Make the world not revolve around you: the game seems to exist around you. Nobody moves until you show up and nobody continues to move either. Sure in heart gold I certainly saw the gym leaders in there off times but why is it that nobody ever seems to beat the gyms except for you and your rival? And why is it all your phone friends have to stay bolted in one spot rather than leave the area and maybe arrange a battle in a poke center for your convenience? The game feigns bigness but just doesn't have it instead there should be dozens of trainers all gunning for badges all running into you with multiple events both story and side quest and doing everything from teaming up to fight some team gym leader to doing a mini game against each other.

make a very apparant fine line between pokemon and animals and make the desire to capture them and understand them a nesscary objective: It always rubbed me the wrong way how I can capture a creature that on the show would cause all hell to break loose if it's taken away from it's post. Or how pokemon have all these amazing descriptions on what they do when there wild but these things never happen at all.

I could go on all day. Make the training of pokemon fun even after the defeat of the elite four, change the battle system to something that doesn't relay on you one defeating a pokemon by knowing there weakness and knocking them down in one hit.

But I honestly don't believe fans of the game would want these changes either. So ya. If you have something about the game that you endlessly like a sequel is for you but for everyone else. I can't say. Pokemon surely is an entry level game but personally I couldn't find my 9 year old me putting up with how the game works today with all it's stuff. And if you played the previous versions and just about had enough of what that was giving you. This won't give you anything you want.

I hope I gave you what you wanted to hear.

jak1165:

Coldster:

jak1165:

So don't make any more stupid posts because its pretty clear from reading your posts that the 20-ish year old version of yourself doesn't have a better grasp of Pokemon than the 6-year old version of yourself.

I don't understand where your going with this, please make it more clear. Also I'm sixteen but it's not like you were off by at least four years.

There seems to be a lot you don't quite understand. Don't worry, it appears you aren't alone

Oh joy, oh rapture, you not only didn't answer my politely asked question but it suspiciously looks like your response was a cover up. What do you mean I don't have a good grasp of Pokemon? I think I do, want to know why? Its because I played Blue, Gold, Silver, half way through Crystal (don't ask why), Ruby, Sapphire, Leaf Green, and Diamond. I don't know how someone could not get a better grasp of Pokemon by playing more versions of the game.

the scribble with mean eyes had me lulzing

Interesting review- but I would've like to know what you thought of the plot. And doesn't Pokemon have very deep gameplay? The raising pokemon side looks complicated, and the battling side has a lot a variety in strategies. Oh, well.

I ordered this game off Amazon- when I get it, I'm gonna go for a Nuzlocke run! :D

Onyx Oblivion:

Falseprophet:

Onyx Oblivion:
Besides, "catching them all" is no longer viable...or even the point, really. It's all about competitive play, with the advent of wi-fi in D/P/P.

Pokemon is now the middle school version of COD and Halo?

Do you know what Pokemon REALLY is?

It's secretly the deepest competitive strategy game ever.

IT HAS TIER LISTS

http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/intro_comp_pokemon

I wouldn't call it the deepest when it's based on luck as well. Missing the punch and getting critical hits in is still all chance.

mrhateful:

Vault Citizen:

mrhateful:
Pokemon is an awful game, I only played red pokemon in elementary school because it was the only game that was any good on the gameboy color.

If Pokemon was aweful how could red be the only game on the system that was any good? I would have thought that aweful and any good contradict one another

Its because of relativity, it just means that gameboy games was really bad. Yes Red pokemon was good in relativity to other games.. Just like 2 is a good grade if everyone else has gotten -3

I see, thanks for clearing that up.

mrhateful:
Pokemon is an awful game, I only played red pokemon in elementary school because it was the only game that was any good on the gameboy color.

Isn't blue the exact same game with different exclusive pokemon?
How can red be the ONLY good one if blue is the exact same thing....?
Also, it wasn't on Gameboy color, it was on gameboy....

Fact: Pokemon hasn't been great since Yellow. It remained good through Gold/Silver, but then went to hell after that.

OMG I hate pokemon but this video made me want to play it just for the shits and giggles lol.

Maclennan:
Heres the question he missed, what do the people in that world eat since every animal and most of the damn plants are pokemon?

I think a miltank would be quite tasty. Pikachu would probably be kind of stringy. They will probably resort to "iceberg lebtuce" soon.

It would be like the animal in the sequel book to the Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy; the restaurant at the end of the universe, where it willingly cuts off its own body parts and feels good about it as it feeds itself to its masters as it has eveolved through generations of being eaten that it makes it easier to get eaten. I mean in Pokemon all the animals do after captured by humans is go into cock fights and they love it! They don't play with their owners they don't get to know them (aside from Pikachu and that one cat) they just fight for them.

YAHTZEE DOESNT UNDERSTAND THE COMPLEXITIES OF POKEMON AND ITS AWESOMENESS!
derp

Oka, actually seriously, its not for everyone, and while I love pokemon I found this review immensely funny. Though I do have to laugh that Yahtzee kept having his ass handed ot him by the flying squirrel. Hahaha!
the same one that kept killing me with its thunder switching attacks. >.> <.< >_<

Oh, and I liked N, he seemed to add the human element that made Team Plasma feel human and not just hte cartoony logic (I want to make more land, because water is evil! was just so full of derp). And reading his EP this week, you;d think he;d be happy there's some boyishly charming youthful young man that wants to spend special time with you to ride a Ferris Wheel and take special care to go out of his way to talk to you instead of sending his grunts to shoo you away.

ShenCS:
Although he apparently didn't figure out that walking actually decreased the encounter rate quite a bit. But damn if that isn't annoying too.

Or that you should have enough money to buy repels, which as long as you have a significantly powerful enough pokemon, you shouldnt have to worry about it.

jak1165:

Quick, how many 6-pokemon teams can you make from 649 pokemon?

Even if we limit to the competitively useful pokemon, that leaves you with about 100. Now each one of those Pokemon learns between 25-50 moves, if we factor in TMs and Breeding. Each of these pokemon could be holding 1 of probably a dozen items using 1 of up to 3 abilities, and can possess one of like 20 or so natures that can potentially affect the outcome of a battle. For example, a pokemon that's speed natured could potentially strike before and kill a pokemon it would not be able to otherwise.

Now your task is to create a team of 6 pokemon that is capable of deal with approximately any of 100 other Pokemon, each of whom could potentially have any various combination of moves, natures, held items etc....

And you've got that all figured out on a spreadsheet? Haha....I bet.

I understand that Pokemon might be too complex for some people. But don't knock just because you can't handle the intricacies and nuances POKEMON of all things. No strategy? LOL

LeonLethality:

In Pokemon you have six Pokemon, each with an ability, stats and four moves. with nigh infinite combinations. There is a huge amount of strategy involved, who to lead with, what moves to give a Pokemon to counter its weakness, how one Pokemon in a team can compliment another, how to counter someone who has their bases covered as well, what EVs to give to a Pokemon. There is a lot more strategy to a Pokemon battle than there is to Chess. Go in to a competitive battle without any strategy and watch how well your spread sheet memorization works.

Dreiko:

Here's what you're failing to realize, in Pokemon the strategy happens as you choose the team you'll be using. Battles are a segment of the pokemon game, not it's entirety.

There's 600+ pokemon and each can learn around 40 moves, which pokemon, with which moves, with which other pokemon, which which other moves etc. etc. is the best combination for your team is a purely strategical aspect of the game and how your team is equipped to deal with every threat is purely a matter of strategy as there are many ways of dealing with something.

If you think everyone just picks any 6 buggers cause they like them and then try to shallowly guess their way into victory you're sorely mistaken I'm afraid.

All those arguments come down to the same: a lot of pokemons with a lot of moves.

Now let's remove the pokemons and moves that are basically useless, the exact same thing, work fundamentally the same way, or are countered the same way.

...woops.

Double woops once you consider playing the same person a second time. Surprise element's gone. Now even if you have millions of pokemons it's irrelevant. You know what your opponent has.

Triple woops: There's only one pokemon active at any one time.

That said, all of that would be very relevant, if it wasn't a spread sheet nonetheless. A very big spreadsheet. But a spreadsheet nonetheless. The match is decided before it starts... Except for the very bane of a good player's existence, the good'ol random factor. Isn't it nice when an attack just suddenly fails, fucking you over royally, due to a random statistic? Yeah. Pokemon seems saturated with that... "True" comp games eliminate random as much as possible. This isn't even like card games where you need the "random" factor of the draw... It's just there to fake some depth.

But hey, if you enjoy it, that's cool. The idea of competitive pokemon to me is akin to competitive rock, paper and scissors[1] - hilarious.

[1] Competitive Rock, Paper and Scissors ACTUALLY exists... I never laughed so hard as I when I discovered that. Random factoid.

Poomanchu745:
There are three types of people who watched this video:

1) The ones who are pissed that Yahtzee would actually make fun of something that is so dear to them.
2) The ones who are now rocking back and forth in a corner, denying that anything bad was ever said about their precious pokemon.
3) The ones who don't give a fuck about pokemon.

*raises hand on option 3*

I stopped playing these games around Gen 2, but I will give some credit to Team Plasma for their parts in this tale. (Read that plot in a strategy guide at GameStop.) That's actually a nice twist in the traditional Pokemon story, and actually gives these villains some motivation instead of the Team Rocket mentality of theft and domination to gain.

Taking into account Yahtzee's comment about no people in the world being Meh about Pokemon, that could explain his observation.

Not much to say about this one. I just don't get Pokemon. I watched the TV series when i was a kid, but that's about it. But hey, I'm currently looking for some new games for my DS and this one and Okamiden are pretty high on my list so maybe this could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship...

Dreiko:

samaugsch:

LeonLethality:

In Pokemon you have six Pokemon, each with an ability, stats and four moves. with nigh infinite combinations. There is a huge amount of strategy involved, who to lead with, what moves to give a Pokemon to counter its weakness, how one Pokemon in a team can compliment another, how to counter someone who has their bases covered as well, what EVs to give to a Pokemon. There is a lot more strategy to a Pokemon battle than there is to Chess. Go in to a competitive battle without any strategy and watch how well your spread sheet memorization works.

Alternatively, you can have one ridiculously strong Pokemon that can one-hit kill all of your opponent's Pokemon.

Nope.

Any meaningful battle is always with everyone being the same level. Even the AI in game ones cut your level down so it'll be equal.

All you're talking about here is in-game trainers controlled by the AI, not human players who play with everything at lvl 100 and use the best specimens of every species.

Well, excuse me for not playing against other people like you do. >_>

Caliostro:

All those arguments come down to the same: a lot of pokemons with a lot of moves.

Now let's remove the pokemons and moves that are basically useless, the exact same thing, work fundamentally the same way, or are countered the same way.

...woops.

Sure there are a lot of useless pokemon and moves but there are enough good ones and enough mixes to be incredibly unpredictable. I have a friend who made a special attacking Tyranitar that wrecked unprepared people (tyranitar is pretty much meant to be physical) You say a lot of pokemon a lot of moves but it's more.
A lot of pokemon, a lot of stats, a lot of EVs a lot of abilities a lot of moves a lot of hold items. All those mix things up and even with the useless pokemon out the window there is still tons of possibilities.

Double woops once you consider playing the same person a second time. Surprise element's gone. Now even if you have millions of pokemons it's irrelevant. You know what your opponent has.

You can build more than one team. Must not have thought of that one huh?

Woops on your part.

Triple woops: There's only one pokemon active at any one time.

Double battles, triple battles, rotation battles...

Woops on your part there again.

That said, all of that would be very relevant, if it wasn't a spread sheet nonetheless. A very big spreadsheet. But a spreadsheet nonetheless. The match is decided before it starts... Except for the very bane of a good player's existence, the good'ol random factor. Isn't it nice when an attack just suddenly fails, fucking you over royally, due to a random statistic? Yeah. Pokemon seems saturated with that... "True" comp games eliminate random as much as possible. This isn't even like card games where you need the "random" factor of the draw... It's just there to fake some depth.

Random factors can turn the tide of battle. But random can work for both sides so nobody has a clear advantage in random.

But hey, if you enjoy it, that's cool. The idea of competitive pokemon to me is akin to competitive rock, paper and scissors - hilarious.

It's a heck of a lot more than competitive rock paper scissors as you are not limited by a small number of options.

LeonLethality:

samaugsch:

Alternatively, you can have one ridiculously strong Pokemon that can one-hit kill all of your opponent's Pokemon.

Depends mainly on how well you built your sweeper and how good the opponent's team is at countering it. In most cases having one pokemon to take out the entire team is not going to cut it, because if they take it down you have no options left.

Also as the above person stated you are all scaled down to the same level.

Only under certain circumstances, like in the battle zone in diamond/pearl/platinum and with other human players. As for the situation of having my one Pokemon being taken down, I usually keep a good supply of healing items like hyper potion (most of the time, it's more cost efficient than max potion) and (max) revive. After that, the only issue is running out of PP for my Pokemon's attacks.

A Flying/Electric pwned your power-leveled Ground?

Correct me if I'm wrong (never played past Red), but Electric is weak against Grass.

Cid SilverWing:
A Flying/Electric pwned your power-leveled Ground?

Correct me if I'm wrong (never played past Red), but Electric is weak against Grass.

Yeah, but flying types aren't. If type matchups are that much of an importance to him, I would've taught the ground type rock moves if possible. Flying types are weak to rock types.

FallenMessiah88:
Not much to say about this one. I just don't get Pokemon. I watched the TV series when i was a kid, but that's about it. But hey, I'm currently looking for some new games for my DS and this one and Okamiden are pretty high on my list so maybe this could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship...

To be fair though, there's not much to get in pokemon in general. Sure they add extra random crap that some people really enjoy like battle towers and endurance thingies and whatnot (if I remember correctly pokemon 8: electric boogalo even had a whole damn island to play with after you beat the story).

But as far as many people will care: You can safely ignore the story and the lack of cutscenes and voice acting make it easier to do so than any nonportable console game. You still collect critters, and you still make them cage fight other critters.

So, y'know. If you want some mindless entertainment then this will sure as hell fit the bill. Covered me off at least.

*projectile vomits*

Missingno...f'taghn...

*blacks out*

-TOM

samaugsch:

LeonLethality:

samaugsch:

Alternatively, you can have one ridiculously strong Pokemon that can one-hit kill all of your opponent's Pokemon.

Depends mainly on how well you built your sweeper and how good the opponent's team is at countering it. In most cases having one pokemon to take out the entire team is not going to cut it, because if they take it down you have no options left.

Also as the above person stated you are all scaled down to the same level.

Only under certain circumstances, like in the battle zone in diamond/pearl/platinum and with other human players. As for the situation of having my one Pokemon being taken down, I usually keep a good supply of healing items like hyper potion (most of the time, it's more cost efficient than max potion) and (max) revive. After that, the only issue is running out of PP for my Pokemon's attacks.

Most competitive play forbids items other than hold items.

Lucie:

Jdb:
I want to know why some people think Pokemon is a super-complex game. Raising Pokemon is complex, but when it comes to battles between similarly-raised Pokemon it's just crossing fingers and hoping the other guy doesn't send out scissors when paper is in play.

Or hope he doesn't send in a level 1 Rattata.
Tip: turn your volume down

I see your video of somebody being beaten by 6 F.E.A.R Rattatas and raise you a team of level 1s that doesn't break species clause beating level 100s.

Cid SilverWing:
A Flying/Electric pwned your power-leveled Ground?

Correct me if I'm wrong (never played past Red), but Electric is weak against Grass.

No grass does neutral damage on electric but electric is not very effective on grass.

Electric has only one weakness; ground. But Emolga is flying electric so he gains flying type's weaknesses (ice and rock) and electric does neutral damage.

LeonLethality:

samaugsch:

LeonLethality:

Depends mainly on how well you built your sweeper and how good the opponent's team is at countering it. In most cases having one pokemon to take out the entire team is not going to cut it, because if they take it down you have no options left.

Also as the above person stated you are all scaled down to the same level.

Only under certain circumstances, like in the battle zone in diamond/pearl/platinum and with other human players. As for the situation of having my one Pokemon being taken down, I usually keep a good supply of healing items like hyper potion (most of the time, it's more cost efficient than max potion) and (max) revive. After that, the only issue is running out of PP for my Pokemon's attacks.

Most competitive play forbids items other than hold items.

Well, I have started lvling up other Pokemon after I beat the Elite 4. I could start introducing Pokemon with moves like Knock Off for competitive gameplay (like if someone sent out a Pikachu with Light Ball). Moves like Thief and Covet could work, too, but only if I didn't already have an item on him.

thecoreyhlltt:

MB202:

TehIrishSoap:
Yathzee reviewing Pokemon? ITS THE END OF THE WORLD!

Not, he already reviewed that game.

Anyway, I also was almost religiously devoted to Pokemon back in the day, but nowadays, I just don't really care that much anymore.

i used to think that as well until i recently decided that i was bored enough to pick it up again and see if it was still as fun... AND IT TOTALLY IS!! gotta catch em all!!!

I'm sure it is, but it's got to be a real time-consuming game.

You know, this is why I love Zero Punctuation. I have Pokemon Black and I really like it, having finished the game and actually enjoyed the ending, a rare thing for me.

But everything Yahtzee said is still true. (Except "catching them all", that is no longer viable. Wow, that would be a lot of work.)

I liked the game, but it did have its flaws. Nothing is perfect, no matter what other reviews tend to say. Yahtzee brings attention to the flaws in a pretty funny way, and he's right. But I still like Zero Punctuation, and I still like the game. Someone can disagree with you and still be a good and funny guy, Internet. Did you know that? Cause I don't think you did.

So Yahtzee, keep making those scathing reviews. The world is full of imbeciles, yes, but some people will go "Yeah, that's right, that doesn't make much sense, does it?" without becoming a raging ape bent on weakly challenging your sexuality and eating habits. Some people, despite all evidence to the contrary, are sane and find your reviews very funny even if it pans a game they enjoy. Keep panning them for us, okay?

Who am I kidding, Yahtzee will never read this comment anyway. That was a waste of time, wasn't it?

Edit: I'd like to talk about the actual game, namely the electric gym in the review and the insinuation that it has no strategy. I'll set the stage: The pokemon I used in the successful fight were a Herdier and a Sandile. After leading with Sandile and failing, I decided to lead with Herdier. I repeatedly used Take Down (periodically healing, of course) as the leader volt changed between her two Emolgas, hoping to kill at least one of them. It didn't, but it turned out to be better because she used all of her potions on those Emolgas. When she ran out of potions, Herdier was low on health and I used him as a sacrificial lamb (dog, I don't really care) to get that last hit in and kill one of them. As the other was at practically no health, she sent out her Zebstrika and I unsurprisingly one-hit killed it with Sandile. Then I sat there for ten minutes listening to the gym-leader's-last-pokemon music, then killed her second Emolga easily. So, as you can see, the strategy doesn't appear that often during the main game, but it does exist.

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