Zero Punctuation: Pokemon White

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LeonLethality:

jak1165:
But...but...itz da same gaem!!!

Cool, someone actually understands Pokemon

If someone honestly told me it was the same game I would smack them and tell them about how things have changed with things such as the physical special split, the EV and IV system reduxes and all that jazz.

Hey man, you're preaching to the choir here. I just started to get back into competitive Pokemon...I'll admit the phrase "competitive Pokemon" raises my self-conscious-nerdness by about 20%...but it's addictive lol

LeonLethality:

Caliostro:

Dreiko:

So chess or any card game in general is something nobody can be serious about?

Gotta inform all those people who actually are serious about those things, quick, run!

In chess both players have 16 pieces, and a 64 square board, with very specific movement constraints for each piece.

In card games, the ones taken seriously that I can remember at least, the players hands aren't showing.

Pokemon is like a chess match with 2 lanes and 1 queen each, or a poker game where everyone's hands are showing. It's not "strategy", it's memorizing a spread sheet.

In Pokemon you have six Pokemon, each with an ability, stats and four moves. with nigh infinite combinations. There is a huge amount of strategy involved, who to lead with, what moves to give a Pokemon to counter its weakness, how one Pokemon in a team can compliment another, how to counter someone who has their bases covered as well, what EVs to give to a Pokemon. There is a lot more strategy to a Pokemon battle than there is to Chess. Go in to a competitive battle without any strategy and watch how well your spread sheet memorization works.

Ha! If there actually was alot of strategy involved with Pokemon then I was a genius when I was six.

My Captcha says "Boose laser". What is that supposed to mean?

Why must there always be someone on Yahtzee's video that goes on probation for early posting? Yeesh.

OT: I don't know anything about Pokemon other than how to spell them and that they are from Japan. But this still was a great episode. I guess those ample references to gentiles and self-mutilation paid off!

Coldster:

LeonLethality:

Caliostro:

In chess both players have 16 pieces, and a 64 square board, with very specific movement constraints for each piece.

In card games, the ones taken seriously that I can remember at least, the players hands aren't showing.

Pokemon is like a chess match with 2 lanes and 1 queen each, or a poker game where everyone's hands are showing. It's not "strategy", it's memorizing a spread sheet.

In Pokemon you have six Pokemon, each with an ability, stats and four moves. with nigh infinite combinations. There is a huge amount of strategy involved, who to lead with, what moves to give a Pokemon to counter its weakness, how one Pokemon in a team can compliment another, how to counter someone who has their bases covered as well, what EVs to give to a Pokemon. There is a lot more strategy to a Pokemon battle than there is to Chess. Go in to a competitive battle without any strategy and watch how well your spread sheet memorization works.

Ha! If there actually was alot of strategy involved with Pokemon then I was a genius when I was six.

My Captcha says "Boose laser". What is that supposed to mean?


If you did this at the age of 6, what are you doing slumming around here?

Onyx Oblivion:
-snip-
And the game has changed a lot. The basic 8 gyms, 4 moves per pokemon, Rock/Paper/Scissors combat system hasn't. But the other mechanics have.

From the infinite TM use of B/W, to the infinite item bag after R/B/Y's STUPID limit, to the addition of Abilites in Gen 3, The Special split in Gen 2, the Special/Physical MOVE split in Gen 4, and even the removal/addition of new HMs for world exploration, to the key item mapping for easy Bike use.

You see, i would argue that all the other changes to the game are irrelevant. It's still the same game. The combat system is exactly the same as when the game was first released and it is as "one dimensional" as ever. The only thing that i feel brings an appreciable difference to the game is new type combinations. Other than that it's just about loading your poke'mon up with a variety of moves with different types, so they can one shot things that they don't have a direct advantage over, or in the case of the flying pikachu, you need to think up something different than straight ground, but something like the traditional geodude would do the trick.

I've honestly never been excited about any of the changes to the poke'mon games because none of them have dared to change the core game-play.

Limited bag space is only inconvenient, (actually i take part of that back, abilities added an extra layer to the game, but apparently an easily forgettable one), i can barely see the significance of a new list of HMs, key item mapping is just another convenience. I barely noticed the physical/special move split, it made scene but barely impacted the way i played the game.

I just see that list of changes as (mostly) having a minute impact on how i play the game. I'm really at the point where if i want to play poke'mon i'll just whip out one of my old copies of the game, i really would have little problem going back and playing my blue version over my diamond, which i only decided to get because my little brother and sister were getting it.

Red/Blue/Yellow weren't competitive in the slightest.

G/S/C actually introduced new typing and new strategies

Brilliant! Best review in a while - especially the beginning! "Some people think I don't review games due to a secret love..."

jak1165:

LeonLethality:

jak1165:
But...but...itz da same gaem!!!

Cool, someone actually understands Pokemon

If someone honestly told me it was the same game I would smack them and tell them about how things have changed with things such as the physical special split, the EV and IV system reduxes and all that jazz.

Hey man, you're preaching to the choir here. I just started to get back into competitive Pokemon...I'll admit the phrase "competitive Pokemon" raises my self-conscious-nerdness by about 20%...but it's addictive lol

I wasn't preaching, I just got carried away with my response. I know you were on my side.

Competitive Pokemon is the main course of Pokemon for me.

Coldster:
Ha! If there actually was alot of strategy involved with Pokemon then I was a genius when I was six.

My Captcha says "Boose laser". What is that supposed to mean?

When you were six did you play competitively? If you are just playing through the "story" there is no strategy needed. You could have a horrible nature and still make your way through with little effort, it's competitive play that involves all the strategy.

jak1165:

Dragonpit:

Dreiko:

Here's what you're failing to realize, in Pokemon the strategy happens as you choose the team you'll be using. Battles are a segment of the pokemon game, not it's entirety.

There's 600+ pokemon and each can learn around 40 moves, which pokemon, with which moves, with which other pokemon, which which other moves etc. etc. is the best combination for your team is a purely strategical aspect of the game and how your team is equipped to deal with every threat is purely a matter of strategy as there are many ways of dealing with something.

If you think everyone just picks any 6 buggers cause they like them and then try to shallowly guess their way into victory you're sorely mistaken I'm afraid.

I'm afraid my friend's little brother would beg to differ on that point, seeing as he finished his game with the first six Pokemon he picked up.

Oh, your pointless anecdote beat a fairly easy game? Now if he so chooses he can start breeding so he can actually play the real game

TerranReaper:

Dragonpit:

Dreiko:

Here's what you're failing to realize, in Pokemon the strategy happens as you choose the team you'll be using. Battles are a segment of the pokemon game, not it's entirety.

There's 600+ pokemon and each can learn around 40 moves, which pokemon, with which moves, with which other pokemon, which which other moves etc. etc. is the best combination for your team is a purely strategical aspect of the game and how your team is equipped to deal with every threat is purely a matter of strategy as there are many ways of dealing with something.

If you think everyone just picks any 6 buggers cause they like them and then try to shallowly guess their way into victory you're sorely mistaken I'm afraid.

I'm afraid my friend's little brother would beg to differ on that point, seeing as he finished his game with the first six Pokemon he picked up.

I think he meant in the context of multiplayer battles. Anyone can beat the singleplayer easily without much grinding, this being especially true with the newest ones.

OT: Funnily enough, I beat the third gym with the electric zebra, because Emolga takes normal damage from electric attacks being electric/flying. Only real trouble was the gym leader's own electric zebra, in which case, my ground/dark crocodile took care of easily.

LeonLethality:

Dragonpit:
I'm afraid my friend's little brother would beg to differ on that point, seeing as he finished his game with the first six Pokemon he picked up.

The main game is easy stuff, it's meant to be that way. Try going through the battle subway or competitive play with those first six and see how many losses you rack up.

True enough, all he did was beat the main story and the League; he may not have actually done anything that would've required a greater diversity in his team. But I guess what pisses me off the most is he did it in a week. I've been playing for three and I've only cleared the second gym.

on an unrelated note - i would be interested to see him play a mech game

MB202:

TehIrishSoap:
Yathzee reviewing Pokemon? ITS THE END OF THE WORLD!

Not, he already reviewed that game.

Anyway, I also was almost religiously devoted to Pokemon back in the day, but nowadays, I just don't really care that much anymore.

i used to think that as well until i recently decided that i was bored enough to pick it up again and see if it was still as fun... AND IT TOTALLY IS!! gotta catch em all!!!

Well it was certainly nice of Yathzee to sum up all the reasons I don't like the game. Namely that it's one dimensional in almost every aspect it shows up in. And i've played more of these games than him and it just has not really changed since the ol yellow version.

Dragonpit:

jak1165:

Dragonpit:

I'm afraid my friend's little brother would beg to differ on that point, seeing as he finished his game with the first six Pokemon he picked up.

Oh, your pointless anecdote beat a fairly easy game? Now if he so chooses he can start breeding so he can actually play the real game

TerranReaper:

Dragonpit:

I'm afraid my friend's little brother would beg to differ on that point, seeing as he finished his game with the first six Pokemon he picked up.

I think he meant in the context of multiplayer battles. Anyone can beat the singleplayer easily without much grinding, this being especially true with the newest ones.

OT: Funnily enough, I beat the third gym with the electric zebra, because Emolga takes normal damage from electric attacks being electric/flying. Only real trouble was the gym leader's own electric zebra, in which case, my ground/dark crocodile took care of easily.

LeonLethality:

Dragonpit:
I'm afraid my friend's little brother would beg to differ on that point, seeing as he finished his game with the first six Pokemon he picked up.

The main game is easy stuff, it's meant to be that way. Try going through the battle subway or competitive play with those first six and see how many losses you rack up.

True enough, all he did was beat the main story and the League; he may not have actually done anything that would've required a greater diversity in his team. But I guess what pisses me off the most is he did it in a week. I've been playing for three and I've only cleared the second gym.

The main game is full with ways to be overpowered, if you just stick to 6 pokemon and don't branch out into deeper strategies and more complex style of play (which you do by catching new pokemon) you'll be so over-leveled by the mid point and on that everything will become really easy to defeat, just send one guy, do one move till everything dies, rinse and repeat. You don't get penalized for it either, instead your guy gets even stronger for it!

If you think this is what it takes to beat anything properly EVd (and I'm talking about the stupid AI here) which you don't outlevel by 15+ levels, you don't have a clue.

Like that extra credits episode about easy games said, pokemon can be beaten by little kids but it's not a little kid game.

Dexiro:

shadowmagus:
Great review Yahtzee. I haven't played pokemon since Blue/Red, and it's nice to know I haven't missed anything in 15 years.

~ basing opinions off a ZP video? You should know better ;3

Except in Pokemon's case, its true for the most part!

Seriously... I quit playing after they released gold and silver... 151 was too much for me, and they add pokemon to the game at a rate far faster than I can catch without cheating. And with the advent of all their bullshit store promotions of giving you a pokemon you can probably get already, but this one is special because it lets you get a pokemon you can't get in the new game, is really, really stupid.

Yellow might of been the best, though I'd argue any pokemon game that DIDN'T make you have to have 10+ versions of the game just to have them all, would be the best. My favorite moment though in pokemon, has to be getting a Cacuna that knew both Harden and Tackle. If only I could of some how got it to learn silk shot...

Mangue Surfer:
I have a question. Only pokemons exist in the world? I mean, without the normal animals what people do for meat? Pikachu BBQ?

there are regular animals in their world (at the very least fish) but pokemon are edible

I cannot wait for the inevitable mailbag showdown #2 that comes from this. Remember what happened LAST time you reviewed a game featuring pokemon (Ess Ess Bee Bee)?

doggie015:
I cannot wait for the inevitable mailbag showdown #2 that comes from this. Remember what happened LAST time you reviewed a game featuring pokemon (Ess Ess Bee Bee)?

I'll admit it, the thought crossed my head...sending Yatzee pokemon furry porn I mean...but then I realized I'd also have to look at it so I refrained.

Awsome, as always.

There'd be no point. Pokemon is about competitive play. Yahtzee didn't do that. Ergo, he didn't actually play the game.

Dreiko:

doggie015:
I cannot wait for the inevitable mailbag showdown #2 that comes from this. Remember what happened LAST time you reviewed a game featuring pokemon (Ess Ess Bee Bee)?

I'll admit it, the thought crossed my head...sending Yatzee pokemon furry porn I mean...but then I realized I'd also have to look at it so I refrained.

If you did send him some then he might probably dedicate an episode to bashing it in every way possible ("Don't these people have a f***ing life!?" and so on)

jak1165:

Swifteye:
Well it was certainly nice of Yathzee to sum up all the reasons I don't like the game. Namely that it's one dimensional in almost every aspect it shows up in. And i've played more of these games than him and it just has not really changed since the ol yellow version.

Derp

You do realize your not supposed to make low content post right? And what does derp even mean?

doggie015:

Dreiko:

doggie015:
I cannot wait for the inevitable mailbag showdown #2 that comes from this. Remember what happened LAST time you reviewed a game featuring pokemon (Ess Ess Bee Bee)?

I'll admit it, the thought crossed my head...sending Yatzee pokemon furry porn I mean...but then I realized I'd also have to look at it so I refrained.

If you did send him some then he might probably dedicate an episode to bashing it in every way possible ("Don't these people have a f***ing life!?" and so on)

Nah, he was commenting about FFXIII porn in the credits of one episode, I'm convinced he's immune to everything by now.

(Either that or he liked FFXIII more than he let us believe :p)

TerranReaper:

Coldster:

LeonLethality:

In Pokemon you have six Pokemon, each with an ability, stats and four moves. with nigh infinite combinations. There is a huge amount of strategy involved, who to lead with, what
moves to give a Pokemon to counter its weakness, how one Pokemon in a team can compliment another, how to counter someone who has their bases covered as well, what EVs to give to a Pokemon. There is a lot more strategy to a Pokemon battle than there is to Chess. Go in to a competitive battle without any strategy and watch how well your spread sheet memorization works.

Ha! If there actually was alot of strategy involved with Pokemon then I was a genius when I was six.

My Captcha says "Boose laser". What is that supposed to mean?


If you did this at the age of 6, what are you doing slumming around here?

Okay, what did you seriously mean by that? That I, right now am six years old?! No, but what mean is that when I first played Pokemon Blue I was six years old and was able to beat it. Therefore, the strategic part of Pokemon is obviously not hard if could do it at such a young age. I haven't bought the last 3 generations of Pokemon (Black/white, HG/SS, and Platinum) because I realized that it is the same game as before with minor improvements. Yes Pokemon is still a good game but I don't think it is meant to be played seven generations in a row.

Coldster:

TerranReaper:

Coldster:

Ha! If there actually was alot of strategy involved with Pokemon then I was a genius when I was six.

My Captcha says "Boose laser". What is that supposed to mean?


If you did this at the age of 6, what are you doing slumming around here?

Okay, what did you seriously mean by that? That I, right now am six years old?! No, but what mean is that when I first played Pokemon Blue I was six years old and was able to beat it. Therefore, the strategic part of Pokemon is obviously not hard if could do it at such a young age. I haven't bought the last 3 generations of Pokemon (Black/white, HG/SS, and Platinum) because I realized that it is the same game as before with minor improvements. Yes Pokemon is still a good game but I don't think it is meant to be played seven generations in a row.

Dude, beating the game's AI and beating humans is not the same.

You may have beaten the game but you clearly didn't comprehend anything that happens in that vid, as to not write 10 paragraphs I'll just say that everything is planned, thought of in many future steps and much more deeply complex than any 6-YO can process.

Coldster:

TerranReaper:

Coldster:

Ha! If there actually was alot of strategy involved with Pokemon then I was a genius when I was six.

My Captcha says "Boose laser". What is that supposed to mean?


If you did this at the age of 6, what are you doing slumming around here?

Okay, what did you seriously mean by that? That I, right now am six years old?! No, but what mean is that when I first played Pokemon Blue I was six years old and was able to beat it. Therefore, the strategic part of Pokemon is obviously not hard if could do it at such a young age. I haven't bought the last 3 generations of Pokemon (Black/white, HG/SS, and Platinum) because I realized that it is the same game as before with minor improvements. Yes Pokemon is still a good game but I don't think it is meant to be played seven generations in a row.

His point was that you did was not strategy. Its not that difficult to understand.

LeonLethality:

jak1165:

LeonLethality:

If someone honestly told me it was the same game I would smack them and tell them about how things have changed with things such as the physical special split, the EV and IV system reduxes and all that jazz.

Hey man, you're preaching to the choir here. I just started to get back into competitive Pokemon...I'll admit the phrase "competitive Pokemon" raises my self-conscious-nerdness by about 20%...but it's addictive lol

I wasn't preaching, I just got carried away with my response. I know you were on my side.

Competitive Pokemon is the main course of Pokemon for me.

Coldster:
Ha! If there actually was alot of strategy involved with Pokemon then I was a genius when I was six.

My Captcha says "Boose laser". What is that supposed to mean?

When you were six did you play competitively? If you are just playing through the "story" there is no strategy needed. You could have a horrible nature and still make your way through with little effort, it's competitive play that involves all the strategy.

I agree, but competitive play was not around when I was six so stop misinterpreting my statement.

I see people state turn-based strategy has no place anymore and I just laugh and laugh.

Then I go play real-time checkers.

LeonLethality:

Caliostro:

Dreiko:

So chess or any card game in general is something nobody can be serious about?

Gotta inform all those people who actually are serious about those things, quick, run!

In chess both players have 16 pieces, and a 64 square board, with very specific movement constraints for each piece.

In card games, the ones taken seriously that I can remember at least, the players hands aren't showing.

Pokemon is like a chess match with 2 lanes and 1 queen each, or a poker game where everyone's hands are showing. It's not "strategy", it's memorizing a spread sheet.

In Pokemon you have six Pokemon, each with an ability, stats and four moves. with nigh infinite combinations. There is a huge amount of strategy involved, who to lead with, what moves to give a Pokemon to counter its weakness, how one Pokemon in a team can compliment another, how to counter someone who has their bases covered as well, what EVs to give to a Pokemon. There is a lot more strategy to a Pokemon battle than there is to Chess. Go in to a competitive battle without any strategy and watch how well your spread sheet memorization works.

Alternatively, you can have one ridiculously strong Pokemon that can one-hit kill all of your opponent's Pokemon.

Coldster:

LeonLethality:

jak1165:

Hey man, you're preaching to the choir here. I just started to get back into competitive Pokemon...I'll admit the phrase "competitive Pokemon" raises my self-conscious-nerdness by about 20%...but it's addictive lol

I wasn't preaching, I just got carried away with my response. I know you were on my side.

Competitive Pokemon is the main course of Pokemon for me.

Coldster:
Ha! If there actually was alot of strategy involved with Pokemon then I was a genius when I was six.

My Captcha says "Boose laser". What is that supposed to mean?

When you were six did you play competitively? If you are just playing through the "story" there is no strategy needed. You could have a horrible nature and still make your way through with little effort, it's competitive play that involves all the strategy.

I agree, but competitive play was not around when I was six so stop misinterpreting my statement.

So don't make any more stupid posts because its pretty clear from reading your posts that the 20-ish year old version of yourself doesn't have a better grasp of Pokemon than the 6-year old version of yourself.

Dreiko:

Coldster:

TerranReaper:


If you did this at the age of 6, what are you doing slumming around here?

Okay, what did you seriously mean by that? That I, right now am six years old?! No, but what mean is that when I first played Pokemon Blue I was six years old and was able to beat it. Therefore, the strategic part of Pokemon is obviously not hard if could do it at such a young age. I haven't bought the last 3 generations of Pokemon (Black/white, HG/SS, and Platinum) because I realized that it is the same game as before with minor improvements. Yes Pokemon is still a good game but I don't think it is meant to be played seven generations in a row.

Dude, beating the game's AI and beating humans is not the same.

You may have beaten the game but you clearly didn't comprehend anything that happens in that vid, as to not write 10 paragraphs I'll just say that everything is planned, thought of in many future steps and much more deeply complex than any 6-YO can process.

I have now been quoted four times now with the response relating to something similar to this "Strategy is only involved with competitive play man not story brah". Yeah, I know, thanks tips. I agree with all of you so stop with this nonsense.

It's too bad there aren't more 2x2 or 3x3 battles in this game. I liked those. They reminded me of days when I'd play Final Fantasy Legends on my Gameboy. More strategy involved anyway.

I'm playing Pokemon as I type this and I would love to disprove what Yahtzee said by claiming that I have no strong collection urge but sadly he's right on this one, the fact that I have bought several games, comics and movies simply so that I would have the complete set of a particular series is testament to this.

mrhateful:
Pokemon is an awful game, I only played red pokemon in elementary school because it was the only game that was any good on the gameboy color.

If Pokemon was aweful how could red be the only game on the system that was any good? I would have thought that aweful and any good contradict one another

jak1165:

Coldster:

TerranReaper:


If you did this at the age of 6, what are you doing slumming around here?

Okay, what did you seriously mean by that? That I, right now am six years old?! No, but what mean is that when I first played Pokemon Blue I was six years old and was able to beat it. Therefore, the strategic part of Pokemon is obviously not hard if could do it at such a young age. I haven't bought the last 3 generations of Pokemon (Black/white, HG/SS, and Platinum) because I realized that it is the same game as before with minor improvements. Yes Pokemon is still a good game but I don't think it is meant to be played seven generations in a row.

His point was that you did was not strategy. Its not that difficult to understand.

I'm still wondering why people like you think I don't understand why I don't agree with you. Let me repeat myself by saying this "what I mean is that when I first played Pokemon Blue I was six years old and was able to beat it. Therefore, the strategic part of Pokemon is obviously not hard if could do it at such a young age". I stated right from the beginning that it is not strategy.

EDIT: Read your first sentence again and then tell me that the second statement wasn't completely ironic.

Onyx Oblivion:
You got your game strategy thrown off by EMOLGA enough to complain about it? Pokemon wasn't EASY enough for you that a Gym Leader you COULDN'T sweep with one move is a negative point against it?

image

The bane of Yahtzee's existence.

Besides, "catching them all" is no longer viable...or even the point, really. It's all about competitive play, with the advent of wi-fi in D/P/P.

And the game has changed a lot. The basic 8 gyms, 4 moves per pokemon, Rock/Paper/Scissors combat system hasn't. But the other mechanics have.

From the infinite TM use of B/W, to the infinite item bag after R/B/Y's STUPID limit, to the addition of Abilites in Gen 3, The Special split in Gen 2, the Special/Physical MOVE split in Gen 4, and even the removal/addition of new HMs for world exploration, to the key item mapping for easy Bike use.

All minor tweeks. Besides, why have SIX F***IN' HUNDRED if you're not supposed to catch em' all?

And I agree with Yatzee. It is a game for eccentric, collect-o-maniacs. And I am proud to be one of them.

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