The Big Picture: Maddening

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Maddening

MovieBob wonders why people keep buying Madden, and why anyone would want Michael Vick on the cover.

Watch Video

Hey Bob, what about the Madden Curse? I think he's earned that!
And trust me, your voice counts for something (even if you were completely wrong about Rango)

I agree, Vote AP All-Day!!!

Good episode Bob. Glad to see you talking about something you are passionate about, doubly cool because I agree.

I really respect your opinion Bob.

"not saying those guys shouldn't be denied a madden cover either."

Gah. Too many double negatives.

yeah, Vick's pretty much a Grade-A douchebag.

While I agree that this man is completely unforgivable in what he did and that EA is a bunch of idiots for allowing this sort of thing to possibly happen (among other things), him being on the cover isn't the end of the world.

First, it's a madden game. We've only had about a million of them with one coming out every year. His face in the spotlight will be minimal and brief. Plus, if others feel strongly about it, like you do, you can always boycott the game to send an equally strong message. If the sales are down for that game, EA knows better than to do something like that again (maybe).

Second, the madden curse could easily take affect and let karma take sweet sweet vengeance on this horrid douchebag. It's happened many times before (I'm not sure what happened after the Saints got on the cover for them), but more or less we can expect something to happen and that may, in fact, be the reason he's getting voted so high aside from his "skills."

That's about all I have to say. While I agree he shouldn't be on the cover, there are plenty of worse things out there that we shouldn't really let this become a huge issue.

Well said, Bob! Though I think this message is gonna fall into deaf ears, seeing as how EA has been handling its marketing recently (with the Dante's Inferno BS and etc.).
Honestly I could care less about what happens to the mainstream sports games (accept for FIFA series, no one could separate me from them) but it would be a HUGE step back in our "games are art" claim when we make an animal-abuser cover guy to a popular title in our community :S

Poor Bob, he sounds so sad at the end.

Anyway, I'm a veggie as well as an animal rights activist (and I still think PeTA can suck it), and I don't think I had a strong a reaction as you, Bob. Sure I hated Vick, and hated everyone who allowed him to be reinstated to the NFL, anyone who considered him for the cover of Madden, anyone who votes for him, or defends him- but I still think you took it harder than me.

The SOB is still winning rounds by a 30% margin. I think the reason most people have forgoten about it (I hope forgoten and not forgiven), is because of the short attention spans of today. It's along the lines of "I can't believe he did that... Tiger did what, I mean who?"

Power to you, Bob. A very good point, in America professional athletes are put on way too high of a pedestal. I remember when the Lakers won the championship, and the mayor of L.A. said "yeah, we'll pay for the victory parade even though the city has no money to support teachers, public services, or education." Sickening.

I'm surprised Bob didn't bring up the Madden Curse either.

Funny that you mention this, i've been preaching to people and friends about how big of a monster Michael Vick is for years. My old man listens to howard stern a ton and he's always bringing up the topic of how the NFL is stupid for allowing the idiot back into the league.

MovieBob:
Maddening

MovieBob wonders why people keep buying Madden, and why anyone would want Michael Vick on the cover.

Watch Video

I'm with you on this, but I do want to throw in an alternate reasoning:

It's okay to ask us to forgive Vick. It's okay to ask that we believe in redemption, and to open ourselves up to the possibility that we are also capable of all evil things if the world were to just catch us on a bad day. It's okay to point out the fact that he's "done his time" and is trying to get his act together. All of that is okay, and I agree.

However.

Forgiving someone, or believing they have redeemed themselves, does not mean forestalling the logical consequences of those actions. It is not wrong, unforgiving, or uncharitable to vehemently want to deny Vick this spot. He paid his legal debt to society, and that's fine. It means he cannot be punished again, but refusing to honor something is not the same as punishment.

If someone robs me and gunpoint, goes to jail, gets out, and then comes to see me for forgiveness, I might choose to use that opportunity to forgive them. I'd let them know that I didn't like what they did, and I'd stop wishing horrible things to happen to them. I'd let them know I really do hope they go on to make better choices. But forgiving them doesn't mean I have to like them, be "buddies," or ever even speak to them ever again. I certainly don't have to make them best man at my wedding, or keep a picture of them on my desk.

See the Extra Credits episode on EA advertising. You know, for a while, I considered EA the lesser of the two evils when compared to the necromancers known as Activision and their president Bobby Kotick, AKA former president of 4Kids Entertainment of which as an anime fan, there's no redemption.

A while ago, I'd say EA was on its way to redeeming itself: from teaming up with Valve and leaving them be with full creative control, to giving the go-ahead to titles that wouldn't have a chance in hell like Tim Schafer's Brutal Legend, to actually creating incredibly new IP's such as Mirror's Edge. Then '09 came around, and the atrocity known as the Dante's Inferno advertising campaign reared its ugly head. Then came Project Ten Dollar. Then came the utterly superfluous purchase of Playfish...

In short, Activision fucks their games while EA doesn't give a fuck about their games. EA's just doing it for the cheap shock value for a quick buck, and it's working.

As for the Madden thing? Yeah, them getting the exclusive NFL license just rubs salt in the woods, doesn't it Bob? I know it does for me.

I find it incredibly hard to be an Eagles fan right now. The Madden curse, although deserved for Vick to receive a second time doesn't really make up for what he did.

I don't think there's anyone out there who will be buying that game that wouldn't know of Vick's history. I guess it shows that as long as he plays good enough football and gets enough spotlight in the NFL throughout the season, some people are willing to ignore his past.

Reminds me of a few Dead Kennedys songs...

I am deeply upset with you bob! As a Carnivore and plant-rights activist I...cant keep this up anymore.

Seriously I couldnt give a damn about pansy assed US rugby-with-pads, or any other sport, but this guy should'nt be touched by any association, it says alot about organistions like the NFL that they'd even let guys like this play for them.

Honestly, I think you guys should put Master Chief on the cover. Apparently he sells a lot of games.

HankMan:
Hey Bob, what about the Madden Curse? I think he's earned that!
And trust me, your voice counts for something (even if you were completely wrong about Rango)

I agree. Some people may be voting for him, hoping that the Madden Curse will finally do to him what the legal system couldn't.

The sad truth is that even in this 'enlightened' age, dogs are still viewed legally as property first, and as a living thing second in the eyes of the law.

Vick is a sick fucker! Anyone that does that to a dog needs to have his brain ripped out.

I completely agree with you Bob.

Unfortunatley as usual the cover poll is nothing more than a popularity contest where people vote for a guy who like purely on a professional level or have some sort of feeling of respect for him because hes had a good season / was on a team you like / is on a team you like.

If EA thinks that it can sell a few more boxes then I don't think it would bother them if they put Bundy or Ed Gein on the front cover as long as they had some sort of proof (ie, the voting polls) that enough people would be willing to shell out money for it.

On the subject of paying for a roster update I do agree to an extent, but the Madden games in recent years have had alot of good functionality added that has really improved the game. Fair enough that alot of it is 'background' functionlity (ie, route running, animations, multiplayer etc).

I'm not trying to justify the same cost each year as all they are doing is adding & tweaking stuff onto the same basic engine, but sometimes itsn't it better to have something that performs better but doesn't have any 'OMGWOWTHATSSOCOOL' features than lots of new stuff but the core basic problems of the previous years still laughing at you?

It's funny how people want to vote players to be on the cover of Madden with the whole Madden Curse and all. Yeah, Vick's an asshole, but I wanted to see him at least do well with the Iggles because it made for an interesting story. Then again, if he isn't voted to be on the cover, who will be? Aaron Rodgers?

....on second thought, yes vote for Aaron Rodgers to be on the cover of Madden NFL 12. And the fact that I am a Bears fan has nothing to do with that at all. No sir, not at all.

I fully agree with you Bob (both about Vick and Madden in general)
A few years ago I lived in a bad neighborhood. My family at the time owned 3 dogs (I forgot the breeds, but 2 males and a female). One morning someone stole the female out of our yard when we let them out to go to the bathroom. 6 mouths went by and we finally found out what happed.
She was made to fight other bigger dogs and when she lost she was left for dead, Someone found her half dead wandering the streets and took her to the Humane Society where some kind hearted stranger paid for all of her medical expenses and she was able to survive, and had her face rebuilt.
The stranger adopted her, and we gave them our blessing us not wanting to bring her back into the neighborhood that we shortly moved out of.

So I understand how horrible dog fighting is.

Bob, I usually disagree about your views on movies and games, but when we agree, we REALLY agree. This is one of those times. (The other was when you discussed your beliefs about the existence of a God)

I'm I they only one that smiled a bit at the thought of Bob getting a justified beating, I felt bad about feeling good about that afterwards, but still.

As for Vick winning, its the internet, I feel they are deliberately voting the choice that will make the game have a bad public image for the sake of laughs. Its not because they support him, they just find it funny that someone with a lot of hate gets rewarded and they get to watch people get angry over it. So yeah EA shouldn't have put him in the the running in the first place, but the internets going to do what it always does. The internet voted that a bridge in hungry be named after Stephen Colbert, a british special forces group use the Team Gurren symbol, and that Justin Beiber be sent to North Korea, all for laughs.

How many people can readily remember the name of any Madden game Cover star? It's not Micheal Vick football it's Madden, the cover is literally irrelavant 10 minutes after the release of the game. That is why it will never matter that he was on it. That's right WAS on it because it's already irrelevant.

wow... cant say I saw this one coming...

oh, and to the guy who explained his approval of this because "its just a dog"...
please cease from ever talking about subjects...

You mad?

Seriously, I don't give a shit about animal rights or the NFL, but surely it is obvious that this is just trolling?

You are rising to the bait of some trolls, they have been successful

Hmm. I really don't care about either American football or dogfighting... guess this episode wasn't for me. :P

And it seems a pretty small issue for a column called 'The Big Picture'. But hmm, there's also been a lot of episodes about comics, so maybe that point is kinda moot.

Seriously, guys? NOBODY believes in second chances? I thought that the justice system was designed to rehabilitate people, and Vick seems to be rehabilitated (unlike countless others who have not changed their ways).

Sorry Bob, but I don't agree with a lot of this, there are much worse crimes this man could have done; murder, rape, child abuse etc than simply making dogs fight each other. Sure, it's cruel alright and I wouldn't do it personally, but just as bad things go on in nature every day. Also I didn't like in your video how you dismissed a lot of the oppositions potential arguments without even explaining why you did so. I happen to believe that morals don't apply in the same way to animals as they do to humans, I don't see an issue here.

Perhaps it's time to forgive and forget, he's done his time and if he says he's sorry, then I'll accept that. Anyway, just being on the front of what quite frankly is an unimportant video game cover for just one year is hardly worth being worked up about.

Dastardly:

MovieBob:
Maddening

MovieBob wonders why people keep buying Madden, and why anyone would want Michael Vick on the cover.

Watch Video

I'm with you on this, but I do want to throw in an alternate reasoning:

It's okay to ask us to forgive Vick. It's okay to ask that we believe in redemption, and to open ourselves up to the possibility that we are also capable of all evil things if the world were to just catch us on a bad day. It's okay to point out the fact that he's "done his time" and is trying to get his act together. All of that is okay, and I agree.

However.

Forgiving someone, or believing they have redeemed themselves, does not mean forestalling the logical consequences of those actions. It is not wrong, unforgiving, or uncharitable to vehemently want to deny Vick this spot. He paid his legal debt to society, and that's fine. It means he cannot be punished again, but refusing to honor something is not the same as punishment.

If someone robs me and gunpoint, goes to jail, gets out, and then comes to see me for forgiveness, I might choose to use that opportunity to forgive them. I'd let them know that I didn't like what they did, and I'd stop wishing horrible things to happen to them. I'd let them know I really do hope they go on to make better choices. But forgiving them doesn't mean I have to like them, be "buddies," or ever even speak to them ever again. I certainly don't have to make them best man at my wedding, or keep a picture of them on my desk.

<3 u

boeingguy787:
Seriously, guys? NOBODY believes in second chances? I thought that the justice system was designed to rehabilitate people, and Vick seems to be rehabilitated (unlike countless others who have not changed their ways).

He got his second chance - he's still playing professional football and getting paid obscene amounts of money for it. He's been given the opportunity to make a living off his athletic prowess. Anything other than that? He was a millionaire who got his jollies torturing and killing innocent animals. He can die in a damn fire.

I had no idea who this Vick guy was (Yay international audience member).

I think Bob hit the nail on the head with regards to this one though. That sums it up. Nothing more or less.

*Goes and hugs and brushes the two kittens he rescued*

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