The Big Picture: Maddening

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Vault boy Eddie:

feeqmatic:

Vault boy Eddie:
He's a fag that got rich playing a game, and he still felt the need to do illegal shit. If I had millions of dollars aside from putting most of it in a bank, i'd open up as many business ventures and just let the money roll in. So I say fuck him, take away all of his money and make him live in the ghetto, he had his chance and done goofed.

Case study in subdued veiled and subliminal raci.... i mean ignorance.

Maybe i'm missing something but that made no sense at all. You seem to have something to say about anyone that has something negative to say about him. If you don't agree cool, state your opinion in your own post and don't go around belittling other members whose opinion differs from yours.

... not really, in fact i think you are the first person i have responded to directly other than clarifying or asking for clarification.

Your post was devoid of any type of intelligent opinion based on the issue at hand. You, like a lot of people seem more satisfied with watching the man fall than what he actually fell for. And the idea that he has the audacity to TRY let alone SUCCEED in rising again brings out a bit of ugly in you and a lot of people.

As I have stated before, I dont think having him on the cover of Madden is a good idea, but this disdain for his existince based on dogfighting charges is ridiculous when coming from bug stomping, meat eating, leather wearing normal people. What it says to me is that it has little to do with the actual crime at hand and more to do with other "factors" of the person who did it.

Wish he'd refuted the "It's just a dog" thing.

Because really... they are just dogs. I don't get why cruelty to dogs gets such an immensely worse rep than a lot of other animal cruelty. Every dog owner I've met has been an irrational overexcited mess. Between them and their dogs, the dogs were usually the smart ones - and that's saying a lot, looking at those empty hurrdurr-faces of dogs.

I completely agree with this. Even if I could not care in the slightest about EA or its smelly sports games, having this guy on the cover is just... ugh. I'm not just saying that because I am a dog owner either. What that guy did is just wrong. Actually I am shocked he is back playing again, though it is not like I would have known since I don't follow American Football or any professional sport. I do hope that if the voting doesn't take him out of the running, someone at EA will.

A good opinion piece MovieBob, and one I can totally agree with. :3

Azure Sky:

feeqmatic:

Azure Sky:
If there are any Aussies reading I'm sure you know the deal about AFL players and things like this.
Even some of the minor blemishes disqualify you for that years personal achievement medals.
(Or something like that, I don't actually follow it)

How should this be any different?

He was disqualified for two years, went to jail and lost millions of dollars

Your point? If something like that happened here, getting out of jail and slinking off into the shadows in one piece would have been his second chance. Forget ever getting back into the sport.

... well if that is the case Im sure he is happy he isnt Australian... i kind of find that hard to believe however. You are talking about a highly talented bankable athlete. Truth of the matter is they get better second chances than normal people do, ill look into it, but i doubt that there haven't been any cases where a footballer was given a second shot after getting in trouble.

Azure Sky:

feeqmatic:

Azure Sky:
If there are any Aussies reading I'm sure you know the deal about AFL players and things like this.
Even some of the minor blemishes disqualify you for that years personal achievement medals.
(Or something like that, I don't actually follow it)

How should this be any different?

He was disqualified for two years, went to jail and lost millions of dollars

Your point? If something like that happened here, getting out of jail and slinking off into the shadows in one piece would have been his second chance. Forget ever getting back into the sport.

Holy crap talk about Irony and the power of google... this took all of 3 minutes.

http://www.sportsgrid.com/media/rugby-player-photo-simulating-sex-with-dog/

This guy finished out the season and is playing in England as we speak. LOL!

Doesnt make what Vick did right, just makes some people hypocrites.

It was really sad to see how bitter your childhood truly has made you. I think you only feel so strongly about Vick not because he let his cousin run a dog fighting ring from one of his houses but b/c he represents all the people who picked on you and kept you out of the in crowd while you were growing up. "An evil, irredeemable man"? What horrible hubris to think you decide who among us is worthy of redemption.

I usually like your videos even if I don't always agree with you but I found this video to be VERY off-putting. It makes it harder for me to come back and view future videos. I doubt you'll even read this comment but hopefully it is useful to you to have some feedback on how you are coming across, at least to one guy.

Yureina:
I completely agree with this. Even if I could not care in the slightest about EA or its smelly sports games, having this guy on the cover is just... ugh. I'm not just saying that because I am a dog owner either. What that guy did is just wrong. Actually I am shocked he is back playing again, though it is not like I would have known since I don't follow American Football or any professional sport. I do hope that if the voting doesn't take him out of the running, someone at EA will.

A good opinion piece MovieBob, and one I can totally agree with. :3

Haven't seen you around often these days. =3

But as usual I am going to have to agree with you. XD

feeqmatic:
Holy crap talk about Irony and the power of google... this took all of 3 minutes.

http://www.sportsgrid.com/media/rugby-player-photo-simulating-sex-with-dog/

This guy finished out the season and is playing in England as we speak. LOL!

Doesnt make what Vick did right, just makes some people hypocrites.

Ben Cousins
Brendan Fevola

One got a bigger second chance than the other.
You also have to keep in mind that the offenses are quite minor when compared to Vick's.

I'm not a sports fan and only knew about Vick due to bits on Leno, but I'll agree in principle that we can be far too forgiving to celebrities that commit crimes. I'm all for second chances, but they have to be earned. PR apoligies don't impress me much in the first place, let alone for a pre-meditated act of cruelity.

Ooh this gonna suck but I must say
YOUR CONSENSUS STATEMENT CONFLICTED WITH YOUR ARGUMENT.
Maybe it's cause I don't understand have asper... NO I got to stop using that as an excuse
I have to be brave and YOUR CONSENSUS STATEMENT TOTALLY CONFLICTED WITH YOUR ARGUMENT it does not make sense to me at all.
And I disagree but I admit I have a bias cause I don't like dogs.
I knew this would suck.

Azure Sky:

Yureina:
I completely agree with this. Even if I could not care in the slightest about EA or its smelly sports games, having this guy on the cover is just... ugh. I'm not just saying that because I am a dog owner either. What that guy did is just wrong. Actually I am shocked he is back playing again, though it is not like I would have known since I don't follow American Football or any professional sport. I do hope that if the voting doesn't take him out of the running, someone at EA will.

A good opinion piece MovieBob, and one I can totally agree with. :3

Haven't seen you around often these days. =3

But as usual I am going to have to agree with you. XD

I don't know you, I don't think. :s

Sorry. :(

feeqmatic:
disdain for his existince based on dogfighting charges is ridiculous when coming from bug stomping, meat eating, leather wearing normal people.

That's what's confounding to me. Apparently you're allowed to torture but only to a point, then your irredeemably bad. Funnily enough, some of the things do to make slaughtering animals "more humane" are eerily similar to what Vick went to jail for.

Yureina:
I don't know you, I don't think. :s

Sorry. :(

It was only in passing because you often said what I was thinking, but it was like... over a year ago. XD

Eugh.

A) By your logic, my pocket watch is the most innocent being in the world.

IT KNOWS NO EVIL.

No, not having a capacity for moral reasoning doesn't make an animal "innocent". It makes them "less than human". In the same way that a lion is "less than human" because they have no restraint in goring small children. In the same way that ants are "less than human" because they scatter all over your food and fuck picnics up. Dogs aren't "innocent"; they're just dumb.

Moral backbone comes from one's conscious decision to do no harm. An animal would never be capable of that to great extent.

B) That being the case, I have no respect for animals.

...Yep. Deal with it.

C) If you can't forgive a person after he's tried to turn a new leaf, then you're part of the problem.

Not that Michael Vick has necessarily done so, but saying that anything is completely beyond and sort of redemption is ridiculous.

D) Even moreso if they're just dogfighting.

Look, dogs are just animals, okay? Cows are delicious, chickens are too, and if you hunt, animals are already suffering for your amusement. The difference between animals suffering for your amusement and animals suffering for your taste buds is so arbitrary that I couldn't care less. In the end, they're just animals.

Now, putting aside animal rights, much could be said about a man that revels in this kind of violence, but hey, he's a professional athlete.

E) The fact that so many fans are voting for him shows that there are many people that would, in fact, like to see him on the cover.

Not so much "ruining their reputation" as much "having good marketing".

F) A Wild Growlithe Appeared!

GO! HOUNDOOM! I choose you!

Azure Sky:

Yureina:
I don't know you, I don't think. :s

Sorry. :(

It was only in passing because you often said what I was thinking, but it was like... over a year ago. XD

Wait... did you change your name? :o

Aiddon:
yeah, Vick's pretty much a Grade-A douchebag.

dont you mean grade S?

Just wow, this is what i hate about humans. Look at me! I think Michael Vick should die! I must be such a good person!

Seriously, lets get a timemachine and go back in time and kill Michael Vick because he is a bad person. And while we are at it, lets kill George Washington and Thomas Jefferson cause they where slave owners and thats a million times worse than dog fighting.

[/rant]

I agree entirely and wholeheartedly.

Yureina:
Wait... did you change your name? :o

Waitamin...
*Realises that he did change it at some point*
Now I feel silly. XD

I think it was SilentLycoris, or something similar to that effect.
It was so long ago that I forget. =(

I dont see the issue. If they want to vote in a dog muderer, then thats fine, we can now label them the people who voted in a dog muderer. Just as I label republicans the people who voted in bush. twice.

Edit: wait, green lighting another transformer movie? I think being forced to fight to the death for money is a bit worse then sitting through another transformers movie.. though maybe not by much

Bravo, good sir. Bravo.

Azure Sky:

Yureina:
Wait... did you change your name? :o

Waitamin...
*Realises that he did change it at some point*
Now I feel silly. XD

I think it was SilentLycoris, or something similar to that effect.
It was so long ago that I forget. =(

I don't recognize that name either. Also not friended. Sorry. ;_;

Bob you have many more still coming

Yureina:

Azure Sky:

Yureina:
Wait... did you change your name? :o

Waitamin...
*Realises that he did change it at some point*
Now I feel silly. XD

I think it was SilentLycoris, or something similar to that effect.
It was so long ago that I forget. =(

I don't recognize that name either. Also not friended. Sorry. ;_;

Well, it was ages ago, don't worry about it. =3

Dear Bob.

Here's the quote from you that has me livid:
"We're talking about Michael Vick, the guy who catches and throws a ball pretty good. He ain't really worth cutting a lot of slack to, you know what I mean?"
To suggest that we should make Michael Vick's life more difficult in part because you don't think his job is worth anything is ridiculous. It's not ANYONE'S right to judge a life based on a profession.

We SHOULDN'T overlook Vick's case or dismiss him as a thug because he's a talented football player. For one, athletes ARE valuable.
Many of us spend just as much time being entertained and inspired by their hard work than those who are entertained by blog talks like the one you write.

Today you belittled another person and encouraged your fans to make his life worse because "He ain't really worth cutting a lot of slack to, you know what I mean?" You have a wide and dedicated audience of people that listen to you. I'd hope that in future you write things with a little more responsibility and a little forethought.

Thank you for you time.

-Sebastien

Seddo:
Dear Bob.

Here's the quote from you that has me livid:
"We're talking about Michael Vick, the guy who catches and throws a ball pretty good. He ain't really worth cutting a lot of slack to, you know what I mean?"
To suggest that we should make Michael Vick's life more difficult in part because you don't think his job is worth anything is ridiculous. It's not ANYONE'S right to judge a life based on a profession.

We SHOULDN'T overlook Vick's case or dismiss him as a thug because he's a talented football player. For one, athletes ARE valuable.
Many of us spend just as much time being entertained and inspired by their hard work than those who are entertained by blog talks like the one you write.

Today you belittled another person and encouraged your fans to make his life worse because "He ain't really worth cutting a lot of slack to, you know what I mean?" You have a wide and dedicated audience of people that listen to you. I'd hope that in future you write things with a little more responsibility and a little forethought.

Thank you for you time.

-Sebastien

Here is the thing though. There was an article that mentions PETA being pissed about this, and no one didn't go on this tirade. Hell barely heard a peep. Moviebob makes a post and now we all give a shit. I really trying to see why I should give a damn at this point. I knew about the whole thing for some time now. It is a poll being conduct by the damn fans on who should be on the cover. By the time this weeks is over, people are going to focus on other shit. Or to be more precise by the time the Yatzee vid comes up people are going to focus on that and Vick we a thing of a past.

Barely anyone gave a damn about Madden. Now we are doing the gonna hurt gaming for ever, and set back shit. The whole lose my faith in humanity tirade. No one really cares, at this point it just a fad. People had their chance to care, and it passed by.

So Bob if you do really believe in forgiveness and rehabilitation, extend it to Vick. It happened years ago, he has been focusing on his career and not being the pokemon wiz-kid of dog-fighting.

There is too much emotion behind your statements. You don't forgive, you don't think he can suffer enough. Look up forgiveness and consider how you contradict yourself in the video.

Also Bob, the term murder only applies to the killing of one human being by another. A nice attempt at pathos there, but killing an animal is never murder.

I respect Bob's opinion, as well as the opinion of many people here regarding Vick's worthiness for the Madden Cover. You are all certainly entitled to your view that Vick is a vicious man. You can argue that he is worthy of some of the worst labels we can give a person. I understand that some people will never forgive Vick for his actions, and that is ok.

Also, I agree that Americans give athletes far too much credit over other professions that provide equal if not greater contributions to the betterment of society. Americans built a ridiculous, messed up culture over here that certainly defies a rational first glance. And the NFL has a deeply sinister dark side. So many players have RAP sheets and dark pasts. Many players are grossly irresponsible individuals (80% of retired NFL players are in financial ruin). The NFL needs reform, as do America's priorities. I agree that there are many profoundly troubling problems here that Americans need to confront.

I would ask you guys to look at some of the other issues at hand here. For one thing, look at the way the media handled coverage of Vick's trial and crimes. Granted, Vick did not conduct himself at all admirably during the trial (the judge compelled him to tell the truth with a lie detector machine), yet at the same time the media would not stop haranguing Vick. Meanwhile, far worse things happened in the world. In just the NFL alone, plenty of NFL athletes and coaches have done despicable things. Roethlisberger, for instance, raped a woman and got away with it before the most recent season; most people do not talk about this incident anymore. Brett Favre sexually harassed a female team employee, and more people blame her for the incident. But Vick's crimes will continue coming up. Yes, they were brutal. Yes, they were unconscionable. Michael Vick is also African American. And in this country, we keep allowing our media to paint black men as criminals. People still bring up Ray Lewis' murder trial even though his charges were dropped a decade ago. People will keep talking about Vick's crimes for the rest of his life too. While his crimes were heinous, keep in mind that we keep hearing about Michael Vick partially due to American society still tacitly condoning the racist antagonism of American Americans.

Furthermore, consider Vick's background and you start to understand more of his psychology. I'm not asking you to excuse his crime, yet consider the way you judge the crimes. Vick grew up in a horrible neighborhood. He also grew up in the South. Dog fighting, cock fighting, and other such contests carry a little more social acceptance in that region of the nation. And some African American people hold very justifiable fears of dogs or even hate dogs, due to the fact that police excessively used dogs against civil rights demonstrators (not to mention that white supremacists and even slave owners also may have used dogs against black people). Getting back to Vick personally, he used his athletic ability to find success, but he also surrounded himself with many of the poisonous influences and relationships too many young athletes allow into their lives. There are plenty of stories about Michael Vick's (and his brother Marcus') bad behavior and notorious misdemeanors while at Virginia Tech. Michael Vick made it in the NFL, but even he admits his did not work as hard as he could and conducted himself unprofessionally. He made excuses for himself, and kept people in his life that encouraged him to make more excuses for himself. When you consider all of this information, it's easier to understand (while certainly not condoning) what Michael Vick did to those poor animals.

I understand why people get as emotional as Bob did about Michael Vick. Dogs are family members to some people. I owned a dog during childhood, I understand the perspective. At the same time, I cannot fathom relating Vick to the second coming of Hitler. Bob, I respect you a lot, so I need to say that I felt really disappointed to hear you say that about Vick. If you feel that way personally, fine, yet I do not think it's responsible for someone with a large audience to make such a leap in a comparison. You vastly distort Vick's actions while simultaneously undercutting your own argument by making this wildly emotional statement.

In conclusion, I will say that it's fine to hate Vick for what he did. It's fine to say he doesn't deserve the Madden cover. When you judge Michael Vick, just keep in mind the way that you judge him, and why you judge him. To casually dismiss him as a scumbag diminishes his responsibility. To casually dismiss Michael Vick as a scumbag also lets us all off the hook for everything our society contributed to this awful crime.

Seddo:
Dear Bob.

Here's the quote from you that has me livid:
"We're talking about Michael Vick, the guy who catches and throws a ball pretty good. He ain't really worth cutting a lot of slack to, you know what I mean?"
To suggest that we should make Michael Vick's life more difficult in part because you don't think his job is worth anything is ridiculous. It's not ANYONE'S right to judge a life based on a profession.

We SHOULDN'T overlook Vick's case or dismiss him as a thug because he's a talented football player. For one, athletes ARE valuable.
Many of us spend just as much time being entertained and inspired by their hard work than those who are entertained by blog talks like the one you write.

Today you belittled another person and encouraged your fans to make his life worse because "He ain't really worth cutting a lot of slack to, you know what I mean?" You have a wide and dedicated audience of people that listen to you. I'd hope that in future you write things with a little more responsibility and a little forethought.

Thank you for you time.

-Sebastien

Great point man. I hear you.

This weeks topic is not the something I would describe as 'the big picture'.

I say old chap:
So Bob if you do really believe in forgiveness and rehabilitation, extend it to Vick. It happened years ago, he has been focusing on his career and not being the pokemon wiz-kid of dog-fighting.

There is too much emotion behind your statements. You don't forgive, you don't think he can suffer enough. Look up forgiveness and consider how you contradict yourself in the video.

Agreed. Forgiveness. Redemption. I think that they extend to Vick. I believe he is turning his life and his career around. Ray Lewis did a similar thing after his murder trial back in 2000. He's a pillar of Baltimore now. I really respect the man, for his game and what he does off the field.

Same thing about Vick. He talks to kids all over the country about the wrongs he committed so he can try to make things right. Not to mention, did you see his game against the Redskins? It was phenomenal. Amazing performance. Athletes like Vick, who can do incredible things, entertain us, and energize a whole city...they do have significant worth. Misplaced American priorities and unchecked capitalism have overblown their worth, but nonetheless I would hesitate from belittling the accomplishments of Vick and other NFL athletes.

Moviebob, while I respect your opinion and sympathize with your moral objections to celebrating a man who tortured animals for sport, I completely disagree with this video.

First of all, animals are not afforded much weight on the morality scale unless you are, say, a practitioner of Hinduism, a vegan, etc. etc. However, assuming that you are not living on tofu and soy milk, your very existence depends on the rather horrific treatment of animals. Forget cutting them up and eating them, google some images of a milk farm some time, of cows hooked up to the Matrix's great great grandfather, literally sucking the life out of them (and yes, I am actually typing this while drinking a glass of milk).

It's not that I am unmoved by the suffering of animals, or cruelty directed against them. It's simply that I was born and raised in a tradition about as old as the human race itself:

Animals are not people. They are prey and tools. They do not think like we do, remember like we do, or possess morality as we do, and as they lack that higher thinking, the usual standards do not apply.

Does this excuse dog fighting? In my opinion, no. It is needlessly cruel, and puts the animals in a horrific amount of pain. It is unnecessary. However, in the same way that I have been raised in a culture in which the exploitation of animals for utilitarian purposes is not only accepted but often embraced, Michael Vick grew up in a culture in which the exploitation of animals for recreation was acceptable. This is how he was raised; I find the argument that he simply did not know better very convincing.

The point I'm trying to get at is that Michael Vick is not (necessarily) a monster. Again, this judgment is dependent on one's moral code, but as I am responding to an argument that arbitrarily singles out one form of animal cruelty amidst a myriad of animal cruelties that are commonly accepted, said moral code is not solid ground to stand on in this case.

And as far as his crime is concerned, I do believe him to have repented, served his time, and even rehabilitated. I'm not talking about the jail time, the financial losses, or the horrible publicity and public outrage that he endured.

No, I'm talking about his community service: He has become a spokesman for stopping dogfighting.

Yes, I know he became an advocate against animal cruelty out of necessity, and that he could very well not regret a single moment of his own dogfighting. I don't care. Michael Vick is the best thing to ever happen to the cause against dogfighting. Dogfighting is an underground practice that is geographically isolated, and was accordingly something that the public was mostly unaware of... until Michael Vick. He brought the issue front and center, and between the media frenzy and his subsequent community service and activism, he has helped bring light to this practice. Whether or not his motivations are self preservation or genuine regret are immaterial: the number of dogs he has helped to save outweighs the number of dogs he helped to murder.

(1) EA backed down on the whole "Taliban" thing for Medal of Honor and it was a multiplayer skin.

(2) EA was hesitating attaching Tiger Woods to ANYTHING related to them because Woods cheated on his wife.

EA. What-The-F*#$???

It's bad enough that convicted felons get paid such exorbitant sums when I'm sure there are plenty of Americans who could just as easily take the sports spotlight.

Forgiving is one thing. Doing time is one thing. But that does NOT excuse a person like some kind of purifying ablution. With that logic, had Hitler just paid some penalty and said he was really, really sorry, then he should have been forgiven and his slate wiped clean. What do incidents like this Michael Vick ordeal show regarding accountability? That is the greatest crime of all.

Good job, Bob, very well said!

I admit EA churns out terrible products without end. As an NFL fan though, it's important to stay connected to your team. Getting Madden means you can keep a year of your team's history in your hand. As a Saints fan, I feel obligated to someday buy Madden 2010; the Saints won the Superbowl, their stats are sick, and Drew Brees is on the cover. I just need to wait until I can afford the game and a PS3. So I will side with Bob on that one issue; the games themselves are sold at too high a price. Some games are works of art, Madden is not. The game would be a niche product for NFL fans, it just so happens that the NFL is the most popular sport in America.

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