The Big Picture: Maddening

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dex-dex:

Steve the Pocket:

dex-dex:
Oh I agree completely this this guy is a suck mother fucker and should never play in the NFL again.
When you think about it it is sending a horrible picture to the general public.
I also like the point you make how the NFL players can resemble a prison line up. If you are familiar with the Canadian Football league, on the off seasons, they are doing community service work and being teachers. now I am not saying that all the CFL players are goodie goods but maybe the NFL needs to start patrolling who they allow in.

Well, that's Canada for you. Everybody knows Canadians are all goodie-two-shoes...es. ;P

at least our football league does not employ criminals just because they can put their butt in the air and throw a ball between their legs.

No, no, I meant that in a good way. Half-jokingly, of course, since I'm sure not all Canadians are paragons of virtue; it's just that there's this very prominent media image that they are, and I have yet to see any evidence otherwise. It's pretty cool, but it's also funny.

Sorry, Bob. The "line you will not cross" is a completely arbitrary line and one I disagree with. If someone has to the power to shoot a fucking duck so that it is unable to feed her chicks has crossed that fucking line. You are no better. You are a hypocrite just like you accuse PETA of being one; if you aren't a hypocrite than you are plainly ignorant.

I'm sorry, Bob, "it is just a dog" and we do worse things to human fucking beings than we do to animals.

I suggest we put bob on the cover.

Susan Arendt:

boeingguy787:
Seriously, guys? NOBODY believes in second chances? I thought that the justice system was designed to rehabilitate people, and Vick seems to be rehabilitated (unlike countless others who have not changed their ways).

He got his second chance - he's still playing professional football and getting paid obscene amounts of money for it. He's been given the opportunity to make a living off his athletic prowess. Anything other than that? He was a millionaire who got his jollies torturing and killing innocent animals. He can die in a damn fire.

I love you.

Marry me!

In other words, thank you for summing up my words exactly.

That's what I said!

Seriously, fuck Michael Vick.

I am firmly convinced that any and all professional athletes are useless sacks of flesh who are a drain on humanity and should be shot and dumped in an unmarked mass grave somewhere. Vick is despicable enough to deserve the first bullet, but I say they all get one.

jakefongloo:
One of the perks of believing in an afterlife is that murder is meh. Child abuse can make for some very strong people and rape.....so? As long as no STD's were spread and no pregnancy happened rape is almost harmless. Weak people crush under the psychological trauma strong move on.

As for torture, torture is possibly the worst thing you can do to anything. It changes their very core. It forces friends to betray each other, sell out family, and will break any mind. Any person capable of torturing anything can not be rehibilitated. It's a dominate high more addictive than heroin. You love the feeling of having something's life in your hand. Once you cross the line there is no way back, when you see creatures you don't see them, you see victims. Vick is going to lose it one day mark my words.

Look, its fine to believe that the strong inherit the earth, after all we are talking about animals BUT STILL TRY TO HAVE SOME HUMANITY!

righthanded:

2xDouble:

righthanded:

if you don't enjoy eating animals, there are alternatives, and they're more cost effective too.
greed drives profits from death in any case. I don't know why there's the need to draw a distinction.

So that's a no. The only thing that matters is making money.

the only thing that matters is not drawing arbitrary distinctions.
if you care about animals, don't eat meat and don't fight dogs.
to say that michael vick is bad because he made money off animal cruelty and that purdue chicken makes money off of animal cruelty but isn't bad-- makes no sense.

Again, thinking only about money... Who cares if they make money? Farms feed hundreds of thousands of people, and other animals. It is a noble sacrifice for the animal and serves a greater purpose. Look at what that chicken went through so you have something to eat. Not eating the chicken is disrespectful to it.

What Vick did, and all dog fighters do, has no purpose. There is no nobility, no sacrifice, no respect. Only murder.

That's a pretty damn big distinction.

For the record, Bob, I voted against Vick because of this video. I didn't even know he was being considered. wtf.

Michael Vick is awesome and godlike, and so is Madden.

THEJORRRG:
I suggest we put bob on the cover.

Can we have our own poll and send it to EA? I think we should put forward Seijuro Shin and Charizard as well.

What is wrong with dogfights?

image

No by seriously, why would I care about somebody profiting on the murder and pain of dogs, I personally hate dogs and I don't even care what happens in countries where the people are in constant pain and murder, why would I care or give a damn? By the way, isn't that one of the most common things in Capitalism, profiteering on other(s)?

*lives in Philadelphia*

*votes for Vick*

What?

Michael Vick tortured and killed animals for sport. Movie Bob owns a hunting and fishing license. There's a difference between eating meat and going out and killing animals for fun. I'm not saying hunting is the worst thing ever, I just don't get out how you can condemn dog-fighting but support hunting. They're both unsavory in my book.

dex-dex:
at least our football league does not employ criminals just because they can put their butt in the air and throw a ball between their legs.

Is that so? You're so funny

Article:
Ricky Williams takes a hand-off, sweeps right and bursts past a couple of defenders, untouched -- his new Reebok high-tops kicking up grass at the Toronto Argonauts' training camp in Mississauga, Ont. Only then does the Argos' latest NFL rent-a-star really accelerate -- propelled by freakish calf muscles that bulge from under a pair of white knee-high socks.

Running backs in the CFL aren't normally this strong, this fast, this gifted. In fact, the former Heisman trophy winner, who has been one of the best backs in the NFL since 1999, is way too good for these parts. But here he is -- for a season, anyway -- thanks to a one-year ban from the NFL following his fourth failed drug test(the first three for marijuana; the league will say only that the most recent was for something else -- it's rumoured to be a herb).

Continued Below

Some consider Williams(from whom the NFL requires up to 10 drug tests a month)the poster boy for all that's wrong with the CFL -- a league with a long history of welcoming deadbeats. NFL hall-of-fame quarterback Joe Theismann, who played with the Argos in the early '70s, says the signing "shows classlessness in the organization," while Hamilton Tiger Cat legend Angelo Mosca says it's further proof the league is "a dumping ground for illegitimate people."

Still, that's tough to square with the five-foot-10-inch, 220-lb. goofball stretched out on the large leather couch in a team trailer after practice. Even though Williams hasn't smoked a joint in about 14 months and has chopped his trademark beard and dreads, he is no less the gentle hippie now than he was in 2004 when he literally walked away from the Dolphins -- after his third failed drug test -- and ended up in the Australian outback, living out of a tent and looking for God. It's just that now he's replaced pot with yoga.

He's soft-spoken but not nearly as shy as he's often described. In fact, he's confident. And a bit verbose -- a product of his new-wave thinking: "I don't necessarily believe in right or wrong," he says, when asked about the failed drug tests. "If I'd never smoked marijuana, chances are I would have never found yoga. So I can't say smoking marijuana, for me, was wrong."

These days, Williams wakes up around 5 a.m. to perform sun salutations, meditation, breathing exercises and yoga postures before breakfast -- which usually consists of fruit, as well as yogourt and granola(he's vegetarian). He earned his yoga teacher's certificate in India last year and plans to teach it twice a week at a Toronto studio. In his duffle bag, which he's been living out of for the last six months, he carries items for his altar("mainly pictures of uplifting people"), clothes, a Bible, the Bhagavad-Gita and a couple of astrology books -- a new passion.

Williams is simply a yoga-loving optimist -- and hardly the most objectionable one in this lot. Which is not the same as saying the CFL doesn't have a problem(remember, this is a league that gave cokehead Dexter Manley another shot in the early '90s after he was tossed from the NFL). There's nothing in the rule book, for example, that precludes guys from playing because they've had brushes with the law. Recently, the TiCats signed Anthony Davis, who pleaded guilty in 2003 to punching his girlfriend in the face(prosecutors later dropped the case after Davis took part in a first offenders program). Winnipeg added Kyries Hebert to their pre-season roster even though he pleaded guilty this off-season to two misdemeanours in connection to a domestic dispute -- he was arrested, but not charged, for allegedly holding his wife's head under water and threatening to kill her in a fight over an unpaid cellphone bill.

In another controversial case, Trevis Smith was still a Saskatchewan Roughrider when he was charged with two counts of aggravated assault for allegedly having unprotected sex with two women without telling them he was HIV positive.(He was suspended immediately; his trial begins in October.)

The league is even open to guys with criminal convictions. "We're like many other employers that do not discriminate for criminal offences," says Michael Copeland, the CFL's chief operating officer. "If you have a criminal record you're entitled to seek employment."

The CFL has no drug policy -- at all -- making it a refuge for NFL stars who are riding out suspensions. In addition to Williams, Onterrio Smith is the other big American import this spring. The Winnipeg Blue Bomber running back has already been tagged by fans as the Blue Bonger. Now clean, Smith -- who spent seven of the last 12 months in rehab -- says he was once young and careless, and had a problem with marijuana. Following four failed tests, Smith was caught in May 2005, yellow-handed, at the Minneapolis-St. Paul airport with dried urine and "The Original Whizzinator"(used to beat drug tests). Bombers management are taking the one-year, $65,000 chance on the 25-year-old -- who faces a civil suit in Minneapolis later this month related to a sexual assault case.

Many with troubled pasts end up in the care of Argo head coach Mike "Pinball" Clemons. Argo offensive tackle Bernard Williams, a first-round pick in the 1994 NFL entry draft, was suspended a couple of times by the league for marijuana. Receiver R. Jay Soward became an alcoholic and was banned from the NFL indefinitely in 2002 for repeatedly breaking the league's substance abuse policy. Wideout Robert Baker is another product of the CFL redemption plan. Several years ago, he spent 10 months in a maximum security prison for trafficking cocaine. He thinks Williams should get a break. "Ricky deserves a second chance, a third chance," Baker told the New York Times. "As long as you're breathing, you deserve a chance. He ain't killed nobody yet. He hasn't taken a life, so he deserves a chance."

The pipeline may soon close partway. Last week, CFL commissioner Tom Wright announced the league is talking with the NFL about a reciprocal agreement that would see each league uphold the other's suspensions. Of course, until then, the CFL remains a rehab centre for NFL drug offenders.

Clemons is all about second(or third, or fourth . . .)chances, and has high hopes for his latest reconstruction project. "If a league is thought less of for giving people an opportunity and helping them turn their life around," he says, "that's where I want to be." It's a nice sentiment, but Williams isn't exactly a charity case. He's a game-breaker. A guy who puts fans in the seats. In fact, he's already proven to be a major box office draw(Argo ticket sales were moving 20 times faster than normal after he signed last week). Orders for his No. 27 jersey are skyrocketing.

Williams says he didn't seek out the opportunity with the Argos -- it simply presented itself to him. "When I walked away from football, I really walked away," he says. "Football didn't let me go." If so, he's lucky(or has good karma, at least), considering that he has kids to support(a seven-year-old daughter, a four-year-old son and another on the way)and owes millions to the Dolphins for breaking his contract in 2004. Williams' salary with the Argos is estimated to be worth at least $240,000. "Ring on my finger or not, it will be obvious by the end of the year why I was supposed to be here," he says. "If one person looks at their life a little differently because of me, that justifies why I'm here." Does he miss Australia? "I don't really miss anything," he says. "Missing means that you're not living in the present -- I always try to live in the present." On his right forearm, Williams has a tattoo of Bob Marley. His favourite Marley tune? Running Away. But that's an old tattoo. That's not Ricky Williams now.

We dont need to employ our criminals. YOU DO!

Would it be okay to put Michael Vick on the cover of the next Pokemon game?

Moriarty70:
The SOB is still winning rounds by a 30% margin. I think the reason most people have forgoten about it (I hope forgoten and not forgiven), is because of the short attention spans of today. It's along the lines of "I can't believe he did that... Tiger did what, I mean who?"

And because in American culture, Sports>Almost anything else.

So if Vick sat down and penned a mathmatical proof of the Grand Unifying Theory and gave up his current career, it would be easier to excuse the act? It seems Bob hates the idea of a football player getting a second chance, as if that person is less human.

Im no fan of dogfighting, but Im not really a fan of throwing a guy in jail and wasting the rest of his life. I certainly dont value an animals life higher than a human being. The fact that he can comeback and start the process of atoning for things is nice to see. Rabid intolerance is best left to jihadists and Fox News.

Additionally, I pulled a 4 year old girl from a dog cage where her parents were leaving her out in their front yard in the sun. It was 120 degrees that day. I find it difficult to make the connection with dogfighting being "one of the worst things possible."

I agree Mr. Chipman, Vick's a scumbag, and it pisses me off to hear people try and defend what he did. Should he get a second chance? Yes, almost everyone should, has he already gotten a second chance? Yes, the second he was given his million doller job back, he got that second chance people seem to be talking about.

I completely agree. I'm from Atlanta and (I'd blame blind fandom) it is sickening how many people still support him here.

I see some remarks on the lines of "dogs are just animals," "this is not so much of a deal," "dogs are 'right down there with mosquitoes and wasps'."

These kind of remarks showcase an atrocious lack of knowledge, or disregard for, the history of human relationships with animals, especially dogs.

Throughout history, humans have bred and altered specific animals in order to make them more fit for human use. Neither modern sheep or cattle as species would survive for a decade without human support. They have been bred forth for the sole purpose of providing meat and clothing.

Which leaves us with dogs. Dogs are more remarkable than anyone thinks in their day-to-day interactions with dogs. They have been bred for the specific purpose of being humanity's companion through the world. They are our last link to an ancient world where survival was a constant battle and food did not grow in supermarkets. No other animal can understand human responses in the same instinctive way as a dog; they are better at understanding us than most primates.

Before the inevitable backlash from more cat-preferring people, note this crucial difference between cats and dogs: cats are wild animals that have been utilized for usages that required a high degree of original instincts and 'wildness.' They have therefore been less distanced from their instincts, and hence are more independent and distanced from the human species. They are basically still a wild creature at heart. This is not the case with dogs.

To return to my opening principle; dogs are more human than any other (non-primate) animal. The seemingly hypocritical notion of favoring dogs over, say, sheep, is therefore both historically correct and justified.

This also leaves us with the requirement that dogs need to be raised in a correct way; their receptability to human impulses make them vulnerable as they have less original instincts to rely on. We are their guardians and masters.

Dog-fighting is therefore comparable only to gladiator fights or making chimps partake in knife-fights. Even worse is the practice of dog-fighters to kidnap ordinary household dogs for use as sparring partners. Sparring partner sounds like an innocent task, but the exact purpose is to be mauled, savaged, torn limb from limb to train the fighting dogs' blood-lust; the fighting dogs themselves being born into a world of nothing but pain, violence and slaughter.

And all this for gambling profits.

I'm pretty sure that these 5 something minutes made me a little bit dumber.

Wow, just wow. So, you would excuse him if he was a famous doctor and approve of him being on Medicine Weekly (or whatever) but because he's a lowly pro athlete he shouldn't be on a game for said sport?

What? What does the job have to do with it? Jesus fucking Christ.

I don't care about the NFL, Madden or Peta or whatever, and I myself find animal cruelty incredibly low and offensive, but that has nothing to do with this guy being an athlete and advertising his face. The way you talk about this person is just as sick as what he's done.

illmuri:
So if Vick sat down and penned a mathmatical proof of the Grand Unifying Theory and gave up his current career, it would be easier to excuse the act? It seems Bob hates the idea of a football player getting a second chance, as if that person is less human.

Exactly man.

Convicted animal-abusing sports star on the cover of a sports game? Sure, why not. Let's put Ed Gein on the cover of the next Tomb Raider while we're at it. Not like the gaming industries rep isn't already shot to ****.

I agree wholeheartedly with you Bob. I believe that there should be stricter punishments for crimes in general, especially when it harms an innocent being.

2xDouble:

righthanded:

2xDouble:
So that's a no. The only thing that matters is making money.

the only thing that matters is not drawing arbitrary distinctions.
if you care about animals, don't eat meat and don't fight dogs.
to say that michael vick is bad because he made money off animal cruelty and that purdue chicken makes money off of animal cruelty but isn't bad-- makes no sense.

Again, thinking only about money... Who cares if they make money? Farms feed hundreds of thousands of people, and other animals. It is a noble sacrifice for the animal and serves a greater purpose. Look at what that chicken went through so you have something to eat. Not eating the chicken is disrespectful to it.

What Vick did, and all dog fighters do, has no purpose. There is no nobility, no sacrifice, no respect. Only murder.

That's a pretty damn big distinction.

i don't know why you're so hung up on the money aspect of this. do you think an animal cares if it's being slaughtered for food or if it's being slaughtered for fun?

snyderman8910:
Michael Vick tortured and killed animals for sport. Movie Bob owns a hunting and fishing license. There's a difference between eating meat and going out and killing animals for fun. I'm not saying hunting is the worst thing ever, I just don't get out how you can condemn dog-fighting but support hunting. They're both unsavory in my book.

There's a difference between merely killing animals and torturing them. Conscientious hunters make a serious effort to kill their prey in one shot; merely wounding an animal and letting it get away is considered one of the biggest fuck-ups you can possibly make. As for fishing... well, there are mixed opinions. There's evidence that their neurobiology is so different from that of mammals that they don't even feel pain per se; their minds just register that something bad is happening and that they should try to get away.

You can see why this is so hotly contested. More important, probably, is what Vick's willingness to do what he did says about his neurobiology, if you catch my drift. I don't know all the technical psychological terms, but in layman's terms it's generally agreed that he'd have to be pretty fucked in the head.

I don't care about Madden, NFL, Sports or Sports Games in the slightest but I believe that this man is a complete scum bag and deserved his jail time, honestly could have been off lightly, BUT he should have let go of the charges after he left prison, he did his time and as long as he doesn't do it again why convict him, I have the same view on this as all charges.

I heard your side and I respect your opinion but you may have to stop and think for a second "do you like dogs, are they your favourite animal, do you think that your love of dogs make you bigoted on this subject?" and really your point is invalid the second you called Dogs soulless creatures unable to conceive conscious decision of what right and wrong is I'm sure all life forms have that in one way or another.

Anyway - don't let your hate for this guy stop him from getting his mugshot on the Madden 12, who knows, if he's lying to the cameras while having dog fights in his garage in his spare time, maybe he deserves his curse.

vorkon:
Would it be okay to put Michael Vick on the cover of the next Pokemon game?

That made my day :P

Let EA put this on their game. While they are at it why not put a dog fighting mini game in it as well. I mean hey they obviously love the fact that this sort of thing happens.

No wait they just love any kind of free press and that is the real reason EA even has him on the list. they don't care what people think of them they just want people talking about them and their games. The fake Protest, the mothers commercial, and now this B.S. I swear EA is doing it on purpose. they are like children that don't understand the difference between good attention and bad attention. So long as they are in the news and people are talking about them it's all good. there is no way to punish them except take there allowance away. make them hurt in the pocket book and them maybe they will smarten up. But with I.P. like "The Sims", All the sports games, SWTOR, Sim City, Ect. they are going to have all there little addicts buying games from them no matter what they put out. EA is like the Mob of the 30s. they figure they can get away with what ever they want and no one has the power to stop them.

As for Vick just strap him down to one of the "Breading/Rape" racks and let the dogs have their way with him. Now that would be justice.

PunkRex:

NickCooley:
From the Free Dictionary

mur·der (mūrdr)
n.
1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

Just something that niggled at me a little bit during the video. Now that's out of the way...

Yes what the guy did was pretty bastardish but he HAS done his time, I'm not gonna be inviting him around for tea any time soon but I'm not calling for his head either. Yet another reason to be thankful most of the western world has a rational justice system instead of going on the whims of the angry mob that want him lynched. Animal Cruelty, while deplorable is pretty low down on my crimes to be riled up over list with the usual suspects being at the top (genocide, murder, rape, paedophilia etc)

Also, while I respect others right to their opinions I can only hope the kind of people that feel murdering a fellow human being over an animal never get into any position of real power, thats an unbalanced and irrational mind right there.

Look guy, I understand were your coming from and I cant really speak for other animal lovers like myself but its not about valueing animals over people, its about having humanity to begin with. If you want to get technical, then sure, murder may not be the word but such deplorable acts dont deserve any sort of defense. I believe that humans are above animals but that means we have a responsibility to act human towards them, not to kill unless necessary and to NEVER cause unessary pain. Giving someone who robbed a bank a second chance makes sense as were unsure why he did it but if he shoots someone while doing it then it doesnt matter, screw him.

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to defend the guy, what he did was sickening yes, but he's served his punishment and I don't think the calls for his head (metaphorically speaking) are deserved. Especially when people are committing worse crimes and there's not so much as a peep from people. As for the animal/murder thing, that was more the Grammar Nazi in me more than anything else.

And while I'm here.

John Funk:

As someone who has played both rugby and futbol americano, I can say with certainty that football is waaaaaaaaay rougher than rugby is. Rugby tackles are like, "grab your jersey and pull you down." Football tackles are "250-lb slab of muscle slamming into your spine at full speed."

Here's a tip: Football players wear those pads because they need them, and that makes the sport rougher.

The more you know! (Twinkle)

Grab your Jeresy and pull you down? Tell that to the All Blacks. Hell, tell that to any professional Rugby players =P

I went and voted for the other guy, even though I've never played a Madden game in my whole life, and don't even follow football.

Appreciate the explanation for us foreign dudes, Bob.
While i'm not quite as outraged by animal abuse as Bob, theres no question that it's wrong and immoral, i do have pets, and the thought that anyone could harm such animals is disturbing.
What i fully agree with is the leniancy concerning athletes and the law. OJ is one example, and many, if not most of the professional athletes in the US and UK notably, have convictions and have comitted crimes that have become very public.
Assault and battery, harassment, drunk driving, drug abuse, drug trafficking, unlicensed firearms, even rape is fairly common among famous sports stars.
The reason they often get away with very leniant punishments considering the crimes they commit, if they don't get let off outright, is because they are "famous".
Young boys in particular look up to these men as idols, and do their best to emulate their behaviour, what kind of message are we sending those children when these men can literally get away with murder just because of who they are?
Worse, the public FORGIVES these men, for no other reason than his fame.

Rkiver:
I had no idea who this Vick guy was (Yay international audience member).

I think Bob hit the nail on the head with regards to this one though. That sums it up. Nothing more or less.

*Goes and hugs and brushes the two kittens he rescued*

As an international cohort myself, the soccer league here in my country with massive douchebags who are also involved in scamming, dogfighting, drug dealing and corruption of the sports system.

I can relate to Bob, but I'm in no hurry of defending his point of view because I'm not a sports fan myself, but I know douches when I see them and there is a massive one here.

*pets dog*

Sigh. So much for rehabilitation. Sad, but no surprising.

I also wonder why people keep buying madden games. Wasn't Vick already on the cover for '04? Well if he makes it again maybe the madden curse will kick in.

I didn't see the angry dolphins on the first page...i'm surprised. I agree 100%. Even with your opinion about how he is a waist of space. Anyone who cause harm to anything for money is waist of skin.

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