Jimquisition: Videogames Are Not Movies, Get Over It

 Pages PREV 1 . . . 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 . . . 30 NEXT
 

Hey Jim, finally ditched those losers at Destructoid?

I'm just joking :P Nice to see you here though. Hope it's not a one time thing ^_^

well this was fucking shite
if i talk about stupid shit for 6 minutes a week in an english accent, can i get a job too please?
remind me to make an audition tape tomorrow

as much as i appreciate the effort he feels a little brash which kind of takes away from his argument a little i will probably not watch again

Kinda looks like a young Jim Cornette rants like a young Cornette too.

VenusInFurs:

Exactly, elitism rules this site. Disgusting.

I'm sorry, I realise there is a lot of mud flung across the isle from both "sides" here, but I feel compelled to address this.
Is it really as simple as that? Can an overwhelmingly negative response simply be attributed to some kind of resident "elitism" without taking the expressed impressions of the users in mind?

I'm not saying every comment here deserves scrutiny (there's been a fair amount too many cheap "fat" remarks to suit my fancy - of course, that also serves to dispute the alleged elitism), but by reducing everyone to that one label, you aren't helping whatever angle you are advocating yourself.

Personally, I think Sterling is a very problematic commentator due to his hyperbole and less than wholesome history of slurs regarding gender politics.
If those objections render me "elitist", point me to the nearest ivory tower.

Admittedly, I don't like him and it's disappointing. He brings up some very good points but the whole "Angry Ranter" persona just doesn't cut it for me.

He's a little like 'Extra Credits' with the word "Fuck"/"Fucking" thrown in.

If he tones down his attitude and gives a much more polite performance, he'll do well. Throwing "Fuck", "Fucking" and "Penis" into an argument makes him lose all credibility and will end with people disregarding every word.

Wait if they had stated the "Heavy Rain is the Cadillac of video games" would this guy be making a vid that games aren't cars?

Honestly it's fucking sales hype, Those guys would tell you that Heavy Rain is the new fucking Jesus if they believed it would sell more games, Everybody knows that and the marketing departments knows that everybody knows it, So in the end all there is left is references to Hollywood in a marketing paper.. and you know what considering the game it's not all that weird.

I don't think the gaming industry has any type of inferiority complex to the movies nor do the gaming community get presented as such.

I the end it's seems more like this dude is presenting his own sense of inferiority.

so we reached the point where any generic fat guy can put on a tie, make shit up and call it a day. A part of me just died. That being said, I'll pass this, whether the dude's right or not

He brings up a really good point. Why the hell are the "artsy" games the ones that are constantly being compared to movies or other forms of art? Or hell, why do we even care about it being "art"?

I'll put forward that games like Halo: Reach are art. Why? Because I enjoy it as a game. There's no other medium that can do that for me. Story, character development, philosophy, etc. can and have been done by other forms of media. And hell, they have been a lot better than games in that respect.

Let's try and evaluate gaming as a medium of it's own, and not just because it consists of elements present in other forms of media.

Right. So Extra Credits is the show for people who want insightful and intelligent commentary, and this guy is for people who want a lot of dick jokes?

Interesting feature, honestly I think Jim could stand to change his style a bit, but at the same time I think he's a bit more on the money in what he's saying than other features like "Extra Credits".

Overall he's absolutly right, however his formula really prevents him from looking at the issue overall. Making statements about how tying games and movies together is going to hamper the development of the industry is fine, but that in of itself does nothing. The people that need to be called to task are the guys who are in the gaming industry right now. Simply put the reason why they are so attracted to the whole "Hollywood" image is because they want to make the big bucks, and also being in a visual medium with large budgets they want to try and play on the similarities to justify their own lavish paydays by acting like it's the same thing (or very similar) when it's not. Also, with those ballooning demands from developers the producers are left needing to recoup those development budgets (what the guys decide they should pay themselves for making a game over a couple of years), hence the demand for increasingly casual games, and things that appeal to a wide audience, movies are something that have a widespread following among the lowest human denominator and make tons of money, so it's not surprising that the producers want to tap into those similarities especially with developers themselves acting like the gaming industry is a lot bigger and more entrenched than it is, and themselves using Hollywood as an example to justify why they should be able to pay themselves that much.

Simply put, the gaming industry needs to break out of it's current course, and that means that people within the industry are going to need to tighten their belts and realize that they can't demand Hollywood-type compensation for their services, until the industry has grown substantially. Simply put the issue isn't so much about the movies, but the industry becoming too big for it's britches, and trying to justify itself through analogy.

It's important to note that when I talk about "Hollywood Paydays" I'm not talking about everyone demanding the wages of movie stars. Rather game developers demanding money on the level of grips, camera men, and FX artists and the like for their work. Of course there are doubtlessly some "idea guys" at the heads of these studios who demand lavish "star-like" payment as part of those dev budgets. On the off chance there are game developers out there with massively underpaid workers, they might want to take a look at what their bosses are demanding as their cuts from these hundred million dollar budgets.

The fact that Hollywood uses computers so much today, with CGI being used to develop everything from creatures, to backrounds, it of course leads a lot of people working with computer graphics to believe that what they are doing is on the same level, or that they could be making more money in Hollywood doing the same basic thing. From a few things I've read here and there, they definatly seem to present themselves that way, and to be honest that's based on self-deception at the very best because simply put there is a glut in the computer and information services market. A lot of people working on games who claim that they deserve this money because "they could go elsewhere and make more" need to be reality checked because they really couldn't. Even if some did, there are only so many jobs for that kind of thing (and most of them are already held). Like it or not, they are where they are because it's really their best option, and they need to start accepting that a dev team splitting up a hundred million dollars or more over a couple of years is really pretty ridiculous.

Once you start getting out of the Hollywood mentality with the devs, I think it will affect the producers, quality won't change (all the same people will still be working pretty much), and more time can be spent on focusing on the development of gaming as it's own medium rather than trying to hitch a ride on the coattails of something more established.

Either this happens, or the current mentality continues, the games industry continues to be a "second rate Hollywood" both in mind and in practice until it crashes after producing tons of lame "interactive movies" like died out at the dawn of CD Rom, and we have to wait for another resurgence to see if the next rise of an industry gets it right.

I will say at the conclusion of this increasingly off topic rant, that I think that the gaming industry DOES have the abillity to become an entertainment industry on the level of Hollywood, and given time and enough penetration it might very well be able to justify people making this kind of money at it. It's simply not there yet, as it's still growing. Movies have a much more established audience, higher circulation, and multiple avenues of making back those huge development budgets. The gaming industry isn't established the same way at the moment, and as such it can't justify paying people that much money.

Heck, I'll say it flat out, I think gaming could be bigger than Hollywood ever has a chance of being simply because with enough time and penetration, I think we could see gaming competition reach the level of pro-sports. It sounds silly until you look at how far it's gone in some nations like Korea. If you think of what an international pro-gaming market could bring to the table, along with Hollywood-level penetration of general gaming entertainment and yeah... the money to be made there is crazy. We'll never see things get there though if they wear out the golden goose by demanding too much of it bfore it's developed.

I LOVE the song playing as he talks! It is Final Fantasy 9 "Jesters of the Moon"! This pleases me very much. As for the video, I already new that Video Games are not movies (Not including Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain)

JackSparrowSucks:

VenusInFurs:

JackSparrowSucks:
[quote="VenusInFurs" post="6.278156.10837995"]Hello, I came here over from Destructoid to support Jim, if it wasn't for that, I would have never step foot inside this elitist camp filled with nonsensical ramblings about a writer who has more talent then the pretentious Movie Bob or the tiring Yahtzee. Really, I wasn't going to leave a comment, but strolling down one page on this very comment section reminds me why I left The Escapist and never looked back.

Yeah, high standards suck.
No, wait, I meant:
hi-standerds suk.

Exactly, elitism rules this site. Disgusting.

Yeah, elitism does rule this site with an iron fist of snob; but we're not pretentious, we're not overbearing, we're not obnoxious; it's not like this elitism is detrimental. We don't look down on other gaming sites (I look down on Joystiq, though; those commenters are stupid-retarded, man.) and snob or circle jerk. We're actually all very debasing of the site, if you look close enough.

I don't want Jim "DA MISOGYNIST FROM WESTERN EUROPE, NIGGA" Sterling to go on here because of the people it'll attract. Moviebob's weird cult movie-show attract weird cult movie watchers, Yahtzee attracts people who hate everything about gaming today; what would this show attract?
The few Destructoid commenters that like him?
No, the type of disrespectful people who are like Jim.

Even if you like Jim, you can (YES, YOU CAN) come up with 2 volumes of criticism. Did I mention his misogyny yet?

You used the words "cult movie" and "Movie Bob" in the same sentence, psh, save me the romantics - he reviews nothing but mainstream movies.

If you think Jim is a misogynist, then I feel sorry you, you completely don't "get" him. Maybe if you get off your high horse then things will change, but I don't find that likely.

Christ, some of you won't even give Jim a second chance. Maybe Jim should have had blond hair, a short skirt and a top 5 list to gain your instant approval.

(not hating on Lisa Foiles, just trying to make a point)

Haseo21:
Is it just me, or are we getting less original video ideas. It seems these days, all the escapist series are just videos of people bitching all....the....TIME.

Loading Ready Run isn't about people bitching! It's amazing!

I can't say I liked the video, really. I didn't find it funny, and didn't hear anything new. On top of that, it seems rather impractical. You know why Yahtzee, MovieBob, and the people from Extra Credits don't appear in front of a camera? Because it's more practical to do it the way they do it.

Of course, some people can pull off the "in front of the camera" thing, like the guys from Loading Ready Run and Lisa Foiles. Doesn't mean this here Jim chap can do it too.

some decent points, but if you wanted to create a bigger shitstorm, replace the word movies with art

sravankb:
He brings up a really good point. Why the hell are the "artsy" games the ones that are constantly being compared to movies or other forms of art? Or hell, why do we even care about it being "art"?

I'll put forward that games like Halo: Reach are art. Why? Because I enjoy it as a game. There's no other medium that can do that for me. Story, character development, philosophy, etc. can and have been done by other forms of media. And hell, they have been a lot better than games in that respect.

Let's try and evaluate gaming as a medium of it's own, and not just because it consists of elements present in other forms of media.

Yeah, but your missing the point; gamers have established that the games that are "artsy" are the games that have truly beautiful or immersive experiences. While I think Homefront is artsy (until it turns into a boring, skill based shooter), others may call me a giant turd for even considering it likable.

If Halo:Reach was a moving experience, then, yeah, it's art. Mindless fun isn't "art", a beautiful experience with the game is.

VenusInFurs:
Hello, I came here over from Destructoid to support Jim, if it wasn't for that, I would have never step foot inside this elitist camp filled with nonsensical ramblings about a writer who has more talent then the pretentious Movie Bob or the tiring Yahtzee. Really, I wasn't going to leave a comment, but strolling down one page on this very comment section reminds me why I left The Escapist and never looked back.

If he has more talent as a writer, either he needs a better face for his videos, or we are a bunch of philistines that just can't appreciate it, because I see no value in any of this. Yahtzee has a stellar format, an entertaining persona, and he has background as a game developer. Extra Credits all have work in the professional world of animation or game development, and fill their videos with insight into the industry. MovieBob compensates for what are essentially article posts by using images to demonstrate his point. Pretension or tired formulas you may call them, but their presentation is top quality, and that's the quality we've come to expect on this website. This guy doesn't make the cut.

oneshotfinchy:
If you don't like it, don't watch it. Jim's not taking away any of your other shows.

Any time this site picks up a bad show, it means one good show won't get its chance. We already have enough commentary blocks, why not throw in more narrative based shows to balance it out? Those are always quite well received on this site.

Decent soft counter to the Extra Credits guys.

He's completely right that games have to work to their unique strength of course, that being their interactivity.

If you want a game that "teaches" or "encourages debate", or whatever other phrase you want to use, then you should do that with its mechanics. How and why it lets you do the things it does and doesn't the things it doesn't.

If you use story then a book could do it better.

If you use visuals, and sounds, a film could do it better.

Games are unique in their interactivity, they must use it.

Arsing difficult of course, it being pioneering territory and all that. I'll leave it up to the genius level people to do it.

Oh yay another boring generic rant.

Is it me or did he just repeat the sentence "video games are not movies" with different phrasing for about five minutes?

Game culture commentating only works when you have INTERESTING FACTS and stories to back up the point.

VenusInFurs:
Jim isn't a nobody. He's rather popular. Jeez, do you guys live under a rock?

Are you overlooking those of us who like Jim? Geez, don't treat us all the same. I frequent Destructoid and The Escapist about equally. You're welcome to post here. It's kind of boring when everyone has the same opinion.

AngryMongoose:

solidsnake101023:

what was the name of those clowns i forgot and thats my favorite final fantasy :(

Zorn and Thorn, also

i hated that thing they turned into

oneshotfinchy:
Christ, some of you won't even give Jim a second chance. Maybe Jim should have had blond hair, a short skirt and a top 5 list to gain your instant approval.
(not hating on Lisa Foiles, just trying to make a point)

You forgot Poland! And the boobs, and the fact that she's a blonde no longer.

StriderShinryu:
The content of the video? Good, if not anything at all new to The Escapist. As much as I love the intelligent discussion of videogames and welcome new faces to The Escapist it would be great if they at least brought something new with them.

The video itself? Meh.. sorry, but it's just terrible. There's a reason why Yahtzee, MovieBob, the EC crew, etc. don't just stand in front of a video camera recording themselves for their video segment each week.

I agree. It looked like a homemade shoot and was rather poorly done, yet the content was valid. But kudos for having a crack, I don't have the inclination to do such a thing.


Oh, no, he usually likes the movies EVERYONE HATES and have a huge "cult appeal". He LOVED Suckerpunch, apparently. He also LOOOOOVED "Paul" despite that it was hugely ignored.
EDIT:
Besides, I personally hate cult movie reviewers. It's just self-indulgent and chockfull of justification rather than review.

HE ISN'T A MISOGYNIST? REALLY? HOW NOT, YOU CRAZY PERSON FROM OUTER SPACE?

JackSparrowSucks:


Oh, no, he usually likes the movies EVERYONE HATES and have a huge "cult appeal". He LOVED Suckerpunch, apparently. He also LOOOOOVED "Paul" despite that it was hugely ignored.

HE ISN'T A MISOGYNIST? REALLY? HOW NOT, YOU CRAZY PERSON FROM OUTER SPACE?

Hahaha, really? Please, enlighten me! What has he done/said that makes him a misogynist. I know plenty of - women- who would gladly disagree with you. Jeez, what planet do you live on?

Azure-Supernova:
You're like an odd mix of Smithy from Gavin & Stacey and Bulk from Power Rangers. Either way it's nice to see another Brit doing something here. I want to see this man in a threeway debate between himself, Yahtzee and Moviebob. Throw him in the deep end. The Extra Credits crew can host and commentate and we'll all sit back with the corn of popping.

Boom, that's right on the money! I know it would be impossibly impractical but it would be AWESOME to have the entire Escapist team in a on-topic video, perhaps something like 'The Future for Escapist magazine' or whatever. Absolute mayhem. Heck, even if they put a silly group-photo up that would be cool.

OT: Racking my brain to think what differentiates this from other rant/criticism videos like those splattered across Youtube - well, it takes a sort of "stand-up-comedy-meets-axe-to-grind" approach (weird, jolly music all the way through) and if I had to say what it's unique 'angle' was, it seems to be the humour (the chip-in game clips were funny and well-chosen). Can't decide based solely on this first video (the poor guy seems to present it with an 'audition enthusiasm') whether it's contributing anything unique so will simply keep watching for now.

Loved it.

Jimothy Sterling:
Is it considered gauche to respond to your own feedback here? I don't know. Ah well. Too late now.

Thank you all for the feedback thus far, even the negative stuff. It's obviously important to hear why you suck from people who will properly explain it to you. Having isolated the key criticisms, I will address them:

1) Obviousness of subject: Not every episode is going to be something hotly contested. Sometimes it's just stuff that pissed me off and hopefully people can feel cathartic in hearing it voiced by someone else. That said, future episodes will have more debatable and touchy topics to discuss, so it won't just be a fat man stating the obvious.

2) The visual presentation: One of the reasons I went with having me on the camera is the very fact that we have shows like Extra Credits and Zero Punctuation. I don't want to look like those. Future episodes will strive for more cut-away content and I will be getting better lighting up in this business as soon as I can. I'll be working hard to make it both different and interesting.

3) That line flub: Dunno how I let that slide. No, that was shit on my part.

If what I've seen so far is indicative of your attitude, then screw whatevers gauche. It's always nice to see the creators of these things get into the trenches and respond to our high and mighty commentary once and awhile. Now here's some high and mighty commentary. ;) I can't say you've made a good first impression on me, but you've addressed that in part one and two of your response. Someone in this thread posted your video on Bulletstorm and it got my attention much better. I look forward to more

As much as I love the insight from the extra credits crew and moviebob and the like, it's refreshing to see someone willing to take gaming off of it's pedestal once in awhile and remind us of the game part of our beloved media. I think we should treat games with respect as the view of them starts to mature, but sometimes things just get flat out silly. Kudos to you for playing the devils advocate in that aspect.

If I have only one complaint redundant though it may be, I hope your future videos have a little less penis in them. Like none. Personally I drive a school bus for a living and sometimes I watch these videos on my iPad on the bus while I load up, and while the headphones can keep my students from having their delicate ears melted from the NSFW language, I'd hate to lose my job because the kindergartener behind me told his parents about your latest ms paint masterpiece. Honestly I didn't even think that was kosher on this site (even Yahtzee blurs out his dick jokes)

All that aside... Welcome to the Escapist.

I'm definitely not sold on this. 5 min and 40 sec spent on repeating the title of the video is not a promising start at all, especially seeing as the first video ought to display some of, if not the full range/potential of the series. I can't really imagine I'll bother to follow this guy at all.

JackSparrowSucks:

sravankb:
He brings up a really good point. Why the hell are the "artsy" games the ones that are constantly being compared to movies or other forms of art? Or hell, why do we even care about it being "art"?

I'll put forward that games like Halo: Reach are art. Why? Because I enjoy it as a game. There's no other medium that can do that for me. Story, character development, philosophy, etc. can and have been done by other forms of media. And hell, they have been a lot better than games in that respect.

Let's try and evaluate gaming as a medium of it's own, and not just because it consists of elements present in other forms of media.

Yeah, but your missing the point; gamers have established that the games that are "artsy" are the games that have truly beautiful or immersive experiences. While I think Homefront is artsy (until it turns into a boring, skill based shooter), others may call me a giant turd for even considering it likable.

If Halo:Reach was a moving experience, then, yeah, it's art. Mindless fun isn't "art", a beautiful experience with the game is.

Well, art is subjective. So I prefer Halo's story to Homefront's. Also, if fun doesn't count as art, I don't know what does. I enjoy games like Mass Effect 2 for the story/characters as well, but just because Halo doesn't have similar elements, it doesn't mean it isn't art. Maybe not to you, but for me it is.

Also, "JackSparrowSucks"?! You take that back, good sir!

He sounds like Ricky Gervais, but he's as funny as cancer. The unfunny kind.

I quit about a couple minutes in when it became evident that he's not very smart either.

VenusInFurs:

JackSparrowSucks:


Oh, no, he usually likes the movies EVERYONE HATES and have a huge "cult appeal". He LOVED Suckerpunch, apparently. He also LOOOOOVED "Paul" despite that it was hugely ignored.

HE ISN'T A MISOGYNIST? REALLY? HOW NOT, YOU CRAZY PERSON FROM OUTER SPACE?

Hahaha, really? Please, enlighten me! What has he done/said that make him an misogynist. I know plenty of - women- who would gladly disagree with you. Jeez, what planet do you live on?

http://gamersareembarrassing.wordpress.com/ (Just chock full of his wackiness.)
http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=4298
http://www.destructoid.com/defending-virtual-rape-not-the-same-as-condoning-it-143025.phtml

Yeah, you get the drift.

I liked it... in the sense that I already dislike him, but that's the point, right?

Maybe it needs more scripting/editing, though. I felt like his point could have been made in four minutes, and probably would have been funnier for it. Also there were some errors that should have been caught ("Hideo Kojima is the Steven Spielberg of film").

I completely disagree with those saying that he's just another Yahtzee (seriously, you can't lump the two together on such a weak basis as them both being sardonic and British. I'm a Brit; if I followed that line of thinking and dismissed all "wisecracking American" reviewers as the same, I would be skipping 80% of reviews on the internet). This guy has a very distinct style. Hopefully that will become more apparent to everyone as time goes on.

 Pages PREV 1 . . . 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 . . . 30 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here