So far, I think every Yakuza game has ended with a shirtless fight atop a high building.

Basement friends are the best!

I got the same feeling with Saint's Row 1 and 2.

Same city, but undergone a pretty big overhaul for 2.

I still remember that spot where I killed that one guy with the thing in SR1 every time I pass it in 2.

Odd to get emotionally invested in Saint's Row, isn't it?

double post...

Seems Yahtzee hangs out with Josef Fritzl

captcha: INSTA gotiva
As opposed to a long, drawn out gotiva.

I guess thiss is proof that a ton of backtracking can be a good thing if it's done right.
too bad it hardly ever is.

You have the same thing happen as in SH4 with Project Zero 3. At the start of the game, your home is safe, but as time goes on more and more spirits start to bleed into the real world.

I remember in WoW I got attached to Moonglade. For the longest time, it was the special place for druids. We had an easy teleport straight there for training where most characters could only get there at a very high level by traveling through a tunnel. With no real quests, it wasn't popular for non-druids with the exception of the festival each year.

I think this helps make the Metroid-style of game really awesome. You start out in certain areas having to struggle against these weak foes, and continuously return to uncover new power-ups while tearing the formerly troublesome foes a new one.

I also know it's unpopular with the Escapist columnists, but the back-tracking in the first Halo gave me this same impression in truth. I'd recall a map where I grabbed an over-turned Warthog, driving to the surviving marines so they could hop on board and then drove around taking out Ghosts and a tank. Later in that game I returned to that same canyon, only this time it was night, I was alone and there was still a tank and squad of Covenant on the other side.

Guess it's partly based on delivery as to how this sort of thing grows on (or annoys) a player.

I think Yahtzee hit's something spot on here.

His theory that creating a ''safe haven'' for players, only to later attack or threaten them at their haven is a theory which I have to agree with is a very strong narrative.

I'm especially thinking about the level in Mass Effect 2 where your ship is being attacked by the collectors, in which you are controlling Joker and moving through familiar surroundings that you have established as ''safe'' 15 minutes into the game.

Thinking about that level, I may have to agree with Yahtzee that it is because of that narrative that event is so damn good.

That was extremely well written, almost touching (for lack of a better word) in a way. It made me realise just how important the location and setting of some games can be and just how much they can impact the way we think and feel.
For example, I often have a tune running through my mind, when I recall where it's from (usually the amazing piece of music that plays in Elwynn Forest) I think of Elwynn Forest, Level 3 Mages, Gold farmers (yes, I'm even using them in this example) and World of Warcraft, and how much I truly appreciate what that game has done for me.

All nerdiness aside, I think that games can greatly impact our lives, and leave positive impressions on our characters and who we are.

Onyx Oblivion:
I got the same feeling with Saint's Row 1 and 2.

Same city, but undergone a pretty big overhaul for 2.

I still remember that spot where I killed that one guy with the thing in SR1 every time I pass it in 2.

Odd to get emotionally invested in Saint's Row, isn't it?

I think I'd be more worried about somebody who wasn't emotionally invested in the SR games.

OT: As nice as that kind of experience can be, it's still no excuse for nine out of every ten sandbox games having you retread NYC over and over again(We're looking at you, Rockstar).

It's interesting, I hadn't picked up on this argument exactly, of subtle change over time creating a greater sense of place, but if fits into my big gripe about Final Fantasy XIII, that nothing in the game had any sense of importance. For the vast majority of the game, you run through supposedly-meaningful, instantly-forgettable hallways that you will never see again. Why am I fighting for this?

Final Fantasy VI's world map, Final Fantasy VII's Midgar, Final Fantasy VIII's Balamb Garden, pretty much every location in Final Fantasy IX, they all went through drastic changes as the story progressed, and they were all far more meaningful than anything in Final Fantasy XIII's endless hallways.

Anyway, it's nice to hear you liked Yakuza 4, let's hope some more people go out and buy it.

First the Japanese vote a Western FPS shooter as the most satisfying game last year, and now Yahtzee loves a Japanese RPG.

Wow.

Onyx Oblivion:
I got the same feeling with Saint's Row 1 and 2.

Same city, but undergone a pretty big overhaul for 2.

I still remember that spot where I killed that one guy with the thing in SR1 every time I pass it in 2.

Odd to get emotionally invested in Saint's Row, isn't it?

Not really. I'm still rather pissed with Ultor over what they did to our church. And that mansion used to be mine after I stole it from the Rollerz, and that one too after I stole it from the Los Carnales (I said that just so Dex would be annoyed wherever he is, the bastard).

Well, well. All I can say is, if you liked the backtracking through the now-ruined labs in Half-Life, you're gonna love...

I love it in games when you come back to a place you've been or completed a quest and find that it has changed, or talk to the characters and their dialogue reflects that time has passed. It seems like to few games do this. You often return to a place you left several in-game months ago and it is still the same as it was the moment you left it.

Anything that increases the feeling of verisimilitude of a game world is a welcome addition to me.

Oh gods do I want characters i can get attatched to... I just recently gave up on an icon of a videogame (hint it was number 7) all because halfway through I just didn't feel anything for the characters.

Quite obviously Gordon Freeman was the affirmative action employee at Black Mesa. He was the retard needed to fill some employment requirements.
Think about it: never says a word; only job was to push a cart (and still fucked that up); happily takes orders from anyone he comes across no matter how dangerous sounding or vague; doesn't bat an eyelid that aliens have appeared all over the place. He's clearly a very special little boy.

And I cannot understand why people get attached to the companion cube. I can only guess it's just a massive bandwagon people like to jump on to project an air of whisy. It was a fucking box. Throughout the game, you can pick up other fucking boxes. Whoopdedoo

Reminds me of that act in MGS4 where you return to Shadow Moses. It had actually been maybe 12 years since I last played MGS, and going back and seeing all the same areas was an extremely nostalgic trip for me.

It's what DA2 has tried to do. Unfortunately, no backwards glance is required in Kirkwall when the entire city and everything in it doesn't change one bit over the course of 7 years. For me, it stopped being familiar and started being stifling.

But I appreciate what they wanted to do, and I love it when games get it right. The Suikoden games always feature a home fortress from where you spread your rebellion, and it evolves throughout the game, shops opening, character moving in, dancing shows and cooking contests being organized for the inhabitants, your barracks, your troops, the war room, the rooms of your allies and friends... All growing and becoming more sophisticated as you transform from a guerilla rebel into a liberation army leader.

Please, more of that. That was awesome.

I like that with God Of War. Every game has like 6 main locations, where you keep coming back with new stuff, moves, keys and the like.

Seneschal:
It's what DA2 has tried to do. Unfortunately, no backwards glance is required in Kirkwall when the entire city and everything in it doesn't change one bit over the course of 7 years. For me, it stopped being familiar and started being stifling.

But I appreciate what they wanted to do, and I love it when games get it right. The Suikoden games always feature a home fortress from where you spread your rebellion, and it evolves throughout the game, shops opening, character moving in, dancing shows and cooking contests being organized for the inhabitants, your barracks, your troops, the war room, the rooms of your allies and friends... All growing and becoming more sophisticated as you transform from a guerilla rebel into a liberation army leader.

Please, more of that. That was awesome.

I have to agree with this. While ultimately it wasn't entirely successful, I really do appreciate what DA2 tried to do in this respect.

It's one aspect I like about the good Metroid games, you form an understanding of the world layout and get to know the places because you travel through them often.

fanklok:

Infernoshadow211:
So far, I think every Yakuza game has ended with a shirtless fight atop a high building.

Then they'll have to vary it up for the next one, a pantless brawl in a basement.

How do you say "This never leaves the cave" in Japanese?

Khushal:
I think Yahtzee hit's something spot on here.

His theory that creating a ''safe haven'' for players, only to later attack or threaten them at their haven is a theory which I have to agree with is a very strong narrative.

I'm especially thinking about the level in Mass Effect 2 where your ship is being attacked by the collectors, in which you are controlling Joker and moving through familiar surroundings that you have established as ''safe'' 15 minutes into the game.

Thinking about that level, I may have to agree with Yahtzee that it is because of that narrative that event is so damn good.

I was just coming here to mention this; ME2 did this masterfully. Even more heartwrenching than the panicky scramble through the attacked Normandy controlling a barely-functional Joker, was the horribly-empty ship you were forced to travel around in after the attack, and woe-betide you if you didn't have all the upgrades yet.

believer258:
Yatzhee, are you saying that series like Yakuza and Half-Life and... well, pretty much anything that goes beyond 2, needs a sort of "anchoring point" that you become familiar with? Or that games should repeat memorable areas?

I see your point, but I don't really think I like it a whole lot. Wouldn't you get a little sick of seeing the same area after 4 games?

The effect of turning something familiar upside down does work. I remember it in Jak 3, when you first got back to the city after a few hours of gameplay and it was a big wreck. However, I think I'd rather a game go through different territories than try to repeat an area unless it served some sort of atmospheric or story purpose.

Great point about Jak 2 and 3. Those games are the two best examples of this that came to my mind. Those were two very underrated games as well.

The Article:
This is a great example of letting the player get comfortable with a place, then taking that comfort away to let them know the stakes have risen.

I remember in Perfect Dark 64 you could at any point in the game wander around your home base of Carrington Institute, saying "hi" to your co-workers and testing out the equipment. And then in one of the later levels within the game the Institute comes under attack and you have to drive the enemy out, protecting the scientists and helping your fellow agents. It was always my favourite mission, and for a similar reason to what this article pointed out.

That's probably what I loved most about Portal. You blast through the testing chambers, but you also get to see the surroundings and you can see the testing chambers from outside. Cool.

And man, what's that game that's something like this HL thing, where you play half of the game in a clean environment and than backtrack it when it's completely destroyed and bloody? Doom 3 had a good thing going, but I'm sure there's a game that had this even better. But I can't remember what game was it.

Oh yeah, also Crysis - it's cool when the jungle freezes up and everything turns white! Yay!

Wait, Yahtzee has people locked up in his basement?
Underage girls perhaps?

Optimystic:

I was just coming here to mention this; ME2 did this masterfully. Even more heartwrenching than the panicky scramble through the attacked Normandy controlling a barely-functional Joker, was the horribly-empty ship you were forced to travel around in after the attack, and woe-betide you if you didn't have all the upgrades yet.

Oh god, I remember that. The Normandy felt so empty, it was actually creepy. With no Kelly Chambers to say "sir, there's been a new message at your private terminal", no Mess Sergeant Gardner, neither of the two engineers... I felt the loss then more than I did when it was happening. Same with Kaiden/Ashley in the original - after the actual event (you know the one I mean), what really got me was the conspicuous lack of checking for their skill upgrades, giving them new armour etc. The game really made me feel like I'd lost something.

Yahtzee:

So this is Yahtzee's little game storytelling nugget of the day, chaps. If your game is a linear succession of locations with nary a backward glance then the most you can do is make the player go "Ooh, that's pretty."

Annnnd there's the big issue with FFXIII (to me)

/oldnews

Optimystic:
I was just coming here to mention this; ME2 did this masterfully. Even more heartwrenching than the panicky scramble through the attacked Normandy controlling a barely-functional Joker, was the horribly-empty ship you were forced to travel around in after the attack, and woe-betide you if you didn't have all the upgrades yet.

Agreed. And that's not the only bit too. After ahving played ME1 thrice, I had gotten rather attached to her. Needless to say I was pretty fucking upset at the beginning of the game.

There was a similar bit in Dragon Age:Origins where your safe camp gets attacked. But the altercation was so brief and abrupt, it doesn't really leave any thing even remotely resembling a scar..... right shame too.