The Big Picture: Done With Dark

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That was FUUUUUUUUUUUUNNY!

Especially when he mentions that aiming a superhero more towards children might do somewhat better than aiming it towards adults.

NinjaDeathSlap:

One thing I do want to know as I'm not a comic buff myself even though I like superhero movies...

Is Spiderman going to be in The Averngers movie? I don't think I've ever seen him on any of the original comic book images of them that Bob has shown but seriously, what is Marvel without Spiderman?

No, spiderman will not be in The Avengers. Spiderman is getting a reboot of his own. Everyone has been recast and it's now going to be more of a teen/highschool driven story. Think Twilight with Spiderman.

I'm going to say this right now: I don't give two shits about the political subtext of the Dark Knight, I just want to see fucking Batman. Did I like The Incredible Hulk and both Iron Men? Of course I did, but I really don't care about the subtext or underlying message, or even the extremely obvious message, I just want to see my fucking superheroes! Since when does an absence of subtext make something juvenile? Like Freud said:"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."And sometimes a space viking with a magic hammer, is just a space viking with a magic hammer.
-Also, I love Batman. I love Adam West Batman, Michael Keaton Batman, Kevin Conroy Batman, Diedrich Bader Batman, and Christian Bale Batman. I think the world is big enough for The Brave and the Bold and The Dark Knight. But not George Cloony Batman, no world needs that.

Yeah, watching Thor tommorow (Britain got it early too!) and looking forward to it.

I'm totally for this message, I love Batman The Animated Series and Batman The Brave and the Bold equally. Though I am coldly indifferent to The Batman.

I totally agree that comic movies are getting way too gritty and dark. I thought the seriousness of the Spider-Man movies pretty much ruined them in comparison to the original comics. I hope the reboot will be more faithful to the original source material. It would be a dream come true to see a goofy teenage Spider-Man spouting out funny one-liners as he beats up super villains. I love the humor and lightheartedness in the series, and it's something that got COMPLETELY lost in translation from comic to film.

lord.jeff:
I've made this same rant many a times myself. Although my rants revolve around more how to mature something properly because you can make mature superhero stories and have it be good, here are some guidelines to start out with:
Rule one- Don't throw in drugs, prostitution, or rape just because it controversial.
Rule two- Adding more shadows and making everything black does not make it a mature story.
Rule three- Characters need more then two emotions, just using anger and regret isn't enough.
Rule four- Happiness is allowed and encouraged, I may be an adult but I still read/watch to be entertained, and whiny assholes aren't very entertaining.

HELL YEAH! I'd like to add something though:

Rule five- Sex and violence is not automatically mature, it just increases the minimum age limit to watch/play said entertainment. Stop throwing it around saying you're catering to a mature audience, because you're not.

Killing_Time:
I totally agree that comic movies are getting way too gritty and dark. I thought the seriousness of the Spider-Man movies pretty much ruined them in comparison to the original comics. I hope the reboot will be more faithful to the original source material. It would be a dream come true to see a goofy teenage Spider-Man spouting out funny one-liners as he beats up super villains. I love the humor and lightheartedness in the series, and it's something that got COMPLETELY lost in translation from comic to film.

I wouldn't say completely lost, as he had a couple of good shots against Jameson in the movies. Apart from that, you're right. One of spidey's main traits is that he can crack a joke or pun in almost any situation, but in the movies there's almost nothing there. Those shots on Jameson were the only time I actually felt I was watching spiderman, and not "whiny kid with spider powers."

We got Thor first? Wow, was not aware of that. (FYI: Watch to the end of the credits)

I more-or-less agree. I love me some dark reboots, but I really wouldn't want every reboot to take that route. As for the whole loving something primarily targeted to kids...I really can't debate that since I hit a rather big Chipmunks phase myself lately. For relevance's sake: the thing that I liked about the recent movies has been that they keep the feel of the older movies while still being a reboot. Which does make it an ironically guilty pleasure considering the dark-nature of everything nowadays that I'm expected to gravitate to almost exclusively.

I know this is kind of off topic, but seeing Thor brought up made me think about the Avengers movie coming out.
Am I the only one who would rather them write the hulk out of the movie apposed to replacing his actor?

I do not blame Todd MacFarlane for the state of comic books today. I blame Alan Moore and Frank Miller for making the dark age of comic books possible.

This week; Bob contorts more of history to fit in with his opinions on the 90s! The US comics industry didn't "Almost kills its self" (well DC did) and i don't really think you can blame Todd Mcfarlane (actually the HBO series of Spawn from season 2 onwards is actually pretty special, worth a look IMO)

I think the REAL problem is that grim and gritty are hardly ever done right in comics, films and yes in games (well maybe in eastern europe). It's always psudo-grit and a kind of the strained adolecent veriety ala Gears of War but without the great gameplay fundamentals (yes the 1st one was good at least).

Danial:
I;ve just got into comics, and reading some of the stuff from the 90s a lot of it is like eating chalk. Bland yet still disgusting.

The 90's taste like Necco Wafers?

I don't know I kinda like my dark stories, although I don't think I've had to experience something light from my childhood all of a sudden becoming gritty (most of my childhood entertainment consisted of game boy games, crash bandicoot, spyro and nickelodeon shows though).

Also because I think it's relevant besides Batman I can think of exactly one dark reboot that worked (and oh man did it work).

image

If I could hug you, Bob, I would. You got it dead on. There were some other points I was going to bring up, but other people covered them first.

Keep going, Bob!

I can understand why Bob is tired of the gritty reboot and all, but I wouldn't have comic books any other way.

My favourite comics of old: Batman vs Predator, Spider Man (around the Venom and Carnage period), Batman (around the Knightfall bit) and X-Men (same period, early 1990's).

My favourite comics of now: Sin City, 300, The Killing Joke, Watchmen, Batman: Year One.

So yeah, I really don't see why the gritty reboot is a bad thing. I get it that it can be silly - with Transformers, which I haven't watched, I can't really see it working out because it's too 'silly' to begin with. With Thor... I'm having my doubts, because for me the whole Avengers thing doesn't add up. You've got Iron Man... COOL, that's a really cool character. Then you've got Cap America... yeah, maybe, could work. The Hulk. Umm... ok, why would he join them, but alright... and Thor. A cool character by himself, but one that doesn't fit the same Universe as inhabited by The Punisher, the X-Men and Spiderman. It just doesn't make any sense... a genius multi-millionaire, a WWII supersoldier, a mutating brute and... a Nordic God? What?

So yeah, for someone who's into comics, but not a comic-book geek... does not compute. I'll surely enjoy the movie and all, but it'll take a lot of suspension of disbelief on my part to watch the Avengers without feeling like a five year old who's easy to impress by anything.

Hit the nail on the head BOB, speaking of dark, anyone see the concept art for the Voltron live action movie?

http://www.scificool.com/images/2010/09/voltron-movie-concept-art-1.jpg

Seriously WTF IS THIS?!?!

Wasn't Incredible Hulk always about impulse-control issues? I don't know much about the comics, but he's always been "Monstrous Anger Man", hasn't he?

am i the only one that as soon as BOB said look back at the transformer movies i said no, i shall not

any way great topic today

Frozen Donkey Wheel2:
Uh, yeah. Gritty reboots have gotten silly. I thought we realized this as a culture somewhere around the mid-nineties.

By the way, Nolan's Batman movies are really the only recent superhero movies that might be considered gritty reboots. I don't think anyone is going to call Iron Man "gritty".

Agreed mate

Danial:
I;ve just got into comics, and reading some of the stuff from the 90s a lot of it is like eating chalk. Bland yet still disgusting.

Ahh I got into comics about 4 months ago due to "The Walking Dead" and after finishing that am half way through both Sandman and Y: The Last Man.

Also have read some stuff friends have passed me like Superman Red Sun.

Feeling really nice to be reading stories again >.> Super Heroes just don't do it for me though.

Great episode. However I never though of Transformers as too grim or dark mainly because the robots weren't the stars. Every time I saw Shia Labeouf it became "Don't care about you social problems, go back to the fighting robots." People came to see transforming robot fight but they were given an angsty teenager instead. That's not grim or dark; that's just frustrating.

I would also say that a dark gritty remake needs a original to be a darker reflection of. Batman Begins was great for me partly because I came in thinking of previous silly Batman movies like George Cloony's. It made a great comparison to see whimsical childish figures portrayed in a new darker manner.

That's the ever present pendulum of human want for ya.

I don't mind dark and gritty superhero movies, but with Batman Begins and The Dark Knight it lost its superhero wonderment. Which is why I hate Nolan's Batman. No matter how dark or violent the movie is it should still feel like a superhero movie and not like a John Grisham novel.

You for got to blame Rob Liefield or whatever his name was as well. The guy who drew people without feet and women that technically had no organs.

JUMBO PALACE:

NinjaDeathSlap:

One thing I do want to know as I'm not a comic buff myself even though I like superhero movies...

Is Spiderman going to be in The Averngers movie? I don't think I've ever seen him on any of the original comic book images of them that Bob has shown but seriously, what is Marvel without Spiderman?

No, spiderman will not be in The Avengers. Spiderman is getting a reboot of his own. Everyone has been recast and it's now going to be more of a teen/highschool driven story. Think Twilight with Spiderman.

Or ya know... what spider-man started out as for the first decade or so.

Fronzel:
Wasn't Incredible Hulk always about impulse-control issues? I don't know much about the comics, but he's always been "Monstrous Anger Man", hasn't he?

Originally Hulk was actually pretty intelligent and capable of rational thought. That's been rebooted recently with Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes where he's a lot more rounded out of a character and not just "Hulk SMASH!!!" all the time. In fact, he spends most of his time as Hulk and can turn it on or off at will.

MB202:
I agree with Bob, but not really for his reasons. I don't like grim and gritty settings because... Well, they just don't appeal to me. Never have. I don't like excessive violence and I almost loathe anything sexually-related, mostly because it makes me feel like a pervert or sicko whenever I watch something like that.

Also, WALL-E FTW! My favorite movie of all time, by the way.

I agree. Some writers/artists try way too hard in that regard. It makes me almost embarrassed to be reading comics sometimes.

Go Bob. If only Lucas had seen this video before those episodes...
Pls do a video on webcomics. There are about 20k of them and they are good.

HankMan:
Your NEVER too old to see the appeal of a Space Viking and his magic Hammer!

And this little fact makes me hope they do a second Thor movie and make it about Beta Ray Bill.

Bob, I liked this episode. I wish there had been more meat to it, but I liked it. Even if you did trot out your favorite dead horse.

i'm all about grim and dark, but i can't take someone seriously when they're trying to be gritty while wearing tights. that's just ballerina emo. and you can't do that. black swan took the market

Father Time:
I don't know I kinda like my dark stories, although I don't think I've had to experience something light from my childhood all of a sudden becoming gritty (most of my childhood entertainment consisted of game boy games, crash bandicoot, spyro and nickelodeon shows though).

Also because I think it's relevant besides Batman I can think of exactly one dark reboot that worked (and oh man did it work).

image

Loved that game, even though I pretty much hated the back story. A perfect example of where darkly comic should be used instead of darkly gritty. The game concept was designed to appeal to kids - shape shifting icecream truck mechs and a guy welded into giant wheels do combat? Heck yeah! But I couldn't let my son play the campaign 'cause the cut scenes would have given him nightmares.

I guess I didn't like Thor as much as other people seemed to. I didn't think it was particularly horrible, just overwhelmingly unnoteworthy. It just seemed like 2 hours worth of Avengers exposition, although in retrospect, it occurs to me that my experience watching it may have been biased as I knew all about the upcoming Avengers movie. Yes, it was nice and flashy and all, and usually pretty interesting when in Asgard and the ice giants' world, but the bits of the movie set on earth I mostly found just cringeworthy.

Anyway, I'll let MovieBob make up his own mind about it when America gets it.

Incidentally, Chris Hemsworth is Australian. That's about the only connection to Australia that I can make that might have led to its early release here, but maybe that's enough?

so far only Nolan has actually done the gritty thing, mostly because it's REAL grit and doesn't do things for shock or amusement. Hopefully Thor is good.

I'm so sick of the media trying to package adult theme entertainment, and only slapping on a shallow helping of blood, gore and tits.

Can someone enlighten me with the whole Todd McFarlane bashing part?

Watched it all the way through and you kind of lost me after the "Transformer movies are aweful" bit. Though I agree they are pretty bad, I don't think it needs to be cover addressed over and over again.

Oddly enough Space Viking with Magic Hammer actually sounds like a horrible movie from -insert stereotypical year here-

walsfeo:

Father Time:
I don't know I kinda like my dark stories, although I don't think I've had to experience something light from my childhood all of a sudden becoming gritty (most of my childhood entertainment consisted of game boy games, crash bandicoot, spyro and nickelodeon shows though).

Also because I think it's relevant besides Batman I can think of exactly one dark reboot that worked (and oh man did it work).

image

Loved that game, even though I pretty much hated the back story. A perfect example of where darkly comic should be used instead of darkly gritty. The game concept was designed to appeal to kids - shape shifting icecream truck mechs and a guy welded into giant wheels do combat? Heck yeah! But I couldn't let my son play the campaign 'cause the cut scenes would have given him nightmares.

Twisted Metal was always kind of dark (or at least the stories were), this game just ran with it.

Also in this game you have a car (Brimsotne) whose special weapon is suicide bombers (this came out before 9/11 so it wasn't meant to be bad taste).

Oh and I thought the back stories were really well done, but yeah definitely not for kids.

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