303: Glitching the Tank

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Achievement grinding, huh? Looks like a few people here don't know about X360A...

I'm of the mindset where cheating and exploiting is detrimental in certain environments (i.e. multiplayer Versus). If a few guys are just trying to add a few points to their gamerscore, who the fuck cares how they do it? In the end it doesn't mean anything anyway - let them have their fun.

Me? Fuck all that - I'll boost every chance I get (though I'm rather proud to have gotten "School for the Gifted" in MvC3 [5-win streak in ranked matches... it's harder than it sounds] without boosting, and I had all but given up hope on grabbing it on my own). I'm not the greatest gamer, nor am I the most honest unless others will be affected. If there's a bug or exploit that allows me to essentially turn on "God Mode", best believe I'll use it.

All right... gotta break out the lightsabre again. I think this thing can catch wildfires...

I love glitches, adore them even. I want to make a game based on manipulating them, or at least making the mechanics of a game based on common glitches. Glitches are all about abusing the system, not "breaking the rules" so much as "finding a loophole". It's far more admirable to manipulate the rules to win in my view, you are effectively questioning the established and beating it at it's own game. I love that stuff.

Srsly dude?

Its not that hard. In the time you spent trying to glitch the game you could of built up some real skills and then done it properly.

I beat all the finales on expert within a couple of weeks of getting the game. Admittedly with randoms, taking my friends along would of been a serious handicap as they aren't that great at FPS.

Oh wait, you're doing this on an xbox? That is hardcore, using a mouse and keyboard makes it 20x easier.

I did the same thing. Blood Harvest was a Bitch.

pneuma08:

Brandon Cackowski-Schnell:
Once on the plane, the only real threat was smokers, but yet another bug offered immunity to their attack provided someone was constantly meleeing you.

That's not a bug. Meleeing someone who is grabbed by a smoker releases them.

The fact that the melee never ran out was *technically* a bug and was fixed in versus, survival and L4D2.

OT: I remember doing that achievement the hard way (or should I say, the expert way ;D) and Blood Harvest was by far the hardest to do, I think my friend and I took ~6 hours. When I played L4D1 I started too late (glitch wise) meaning the only one left was the "power shot", a way of glitching the smg or m16 to empty and entire clip in 1 shot. It killed your ammo but helped a lot against tanks, providing you didnt miss (got annoying on versus when all 4 were using it and tanks died too quickly.

Then there was the case of picking up L4D2 (after reading somewhere that expert on 1 is like advanced on 2, not really the case from experience but I was none the wise then) and seeing "The Real Deal" (survive expert realism). That was my "how the fuck?" achievement for quite a while (we did it eventually but yeah).

The main way that the expert achievements got harder in 2 was the fact that you had to survive the campaigns, not just finish them.

Side note; my captcha is partially in subscript ..... THEY WERE HARD ENOUGH TO READ ALREADY.... especially when there's a lot of i's, l's and t's next to each other, they all look the same

Continuity:
Srsly dude?

Its not that hard. In the time you spent trying to glitch the game you could of built up some real skills and then done it properly.

I beat all the finales on expert within a couple of weeks of getting the game. Admittedly with randoms, taking my friends along would of been a serious handicap as they aren't that great at FPS.

Oh wait, you're doing this on an xbox? That is hardcore, using a mouse and keyboard makes it 20x easier.

/agreed

I originally had L4D1 on the xbox then got L4D2 on both xbox and PC (both pre-ordered, long story). Since the xbox version of 2 was lacking players and I had RL friends on the PC I left the xbox version for quite a while. Going back to it months later I realised that normal was a struggle when I could do solo expert (campaign dependant mind you) on the PC. Honestly don't know how I got "What are you trying to prove" legit on the xbox back in the day

I beat that achievement on day 1. Still it's funny to laugh at the mortals that need to cheat to get it, and still struggle.

I found this article funny, and interesting. Since the subject wasn't all that interesting, it must have been because the writer was a pro.

Brian Hendershot:
Kill a Tank with melee weapons only. What the sandcastle Valve?

Easiest non glitch way was that chainsaw only mutation on easy. Although saying that the way I initially did it was by setting the parish finale to expert, killing the bots, changing to easy and taking the set placed tank being really careful with the baseball bat (or wtv I used). Main thing was to make sure that if I got hit I wouldn't fly off the edge and to have pills handy and since he doesn't do that much damage on easy you can take a fair few hits. Other than that get a group of friends and straight rush.

Gears of War 2; Seriously 2.0
That's an achievement and a half to get without grinding for 18 hours straight and one I believe I may never get (I refuse to grind out of boredom reasons)

pejhmon:

Brian Hendershot:
Kill a Tank with melee weapons only. What the sandcastle Valve?

Easiest non glitch way was that chainsaw only mutation on easy. Although saying that the way I initially did it was by setting the parish finale to expert, killing the bots, changing to easy and taking the set placed tank being really careful with the baseball bat (or wtv I used). Main thing was to make sure that if I got hit I wouldn't fly off the edge and to have pills handy and since he doesn't do that much damage on easy you can take a fair few hits. Other than that get a group of friends and straight rush.

Gears of War 2; Seriously 2.0
That's an achievement and a half to get without grinding for 18 hours straight and one I believe I may never get (I refuse to grind out of boredom reasons)

Don't even get me started on the Gears of War 2.0 Achievement. I almost had it once...and then I had to switch accounts. (For some reason I forgot my password to my account, and the e-mail I used was invalid so I couldn't prove it was my account. Stupid *******). Anyways...yeah. Hate that achievement and all achievements like it. Achievements like that are put in the game only to make you keep playing it... (I think that's why Epic put the Golden Retro Lancer in their beta. To keep us playing the game. (The sly buggers).

Hahaha...love your narrative...

It's funny how you describe the impending doom of a coming Steam patch with more dread than the zombie apocalypse you're placed in :P

I can't imagine playing a game for a month and still sucking at it.

I don't really care how you obtained the achievements, but I'm curious...Doesn't cheating lessen the feeling of achievement? In other words, against the point of Achievements?

I was able to get 'Still Something to Prove' in L4D2 because I had joined a special server that allowed like 20 players and low gravity. There was even a points system that let you buy weapons and health. The downside was that special infected and hordes constantly spawned, but it was fucking awesome.

I got the achievement legitimately on the PC. It was difficult, but with a good team and some luck you should be able to do it. Now Left 4 Dead 2, I haven't even tried. I find that game much harder with my play style, probably because I relied heavily on shotguns, melee attacks and pistols in the first and now those things are not as easy to abuse. Plus my regular play group kind of broke up.

One achievement I never went to the effort to do was Nothing Special. We tried maybe a handful of times, but it is not fun at all to do, since about a half hour of work can be made worthless in a few seconds.

As for defeating the tank with melee weapons only, it's very doable, but you need 4 people together who are achievement hunting and some coordination. The tank takes a while to turn corners and turn around (although at one point there was a bug where he would lumber toward you backwards and be facing you as the computer believed) and also to climb objects. If you can kite the tank into climbing a ledge you have a good block of time to wail on him. Then you need the person who has aggro (dealt most damage most recently) to run away, loop around a building or something to get some distance on him and trick the tank into climbing again.

I don't see why glitching is necessary honestly. With a team of competent players (note: Competent, GOOD is optional), you can easily get to the Finale in under two hours in any expert campaign.

As for the finales themselves, PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT. Just skip to the finale, practice it a few times, then do the campaign for real the next day.

While i can't really complain about glitching in a co-op game, cheating to boost Gamerscore is a bit of an insult to everyone who got it legitimately.

It's a well-written article, but that doesn't change the fact that cheating is cheating. It also doesn't change the fact that displaying dishonestly gained achievements is a lie.

It's hardly surprising that gamers are so often viewed with such dismissive & derisive contempt by the mainstream population.

You don't have to play mediocre games to have a great gamerscore. I'm about to break 50k and every game I have on my system was enjoyable to play.

"tremendous respect for a game that could dismantle us so completely" ? As much as I try to like left for dead as a series the ai director imo comes accross more like an AI troll, which is basically some kid with a bunch of "spawn enemy here" buttons.

The more of his monsters you kill, the more and more and more angry he becomes, anyone whose killed a hunter in a hetic battle where you're surrounded only for it to near instantly reappear around a corner knows what I'm talking about.

nice story did the glitches at the end, with 2 friends.
Bit to all you who say that glitching and such is bad, HAVE YOU TRIED L4D on xbox 360??? it is 5 times harder than the pc version, nobody on 360 has done this legit because it is so hard, we all uses these glitches because they are pretty much a part of the game for us.
And donīt tell me you never have cheated,used exploits or glitch in some game at all

I came from NoHighScores.com
I love that site.
This was a great read.

I tend to rate my achievements by how many people other players haven't been good or interested enough to get them. trueachievements.com is a really good site for checking this out.

I think, therefore, that if an achievement can be glitched, the achievement is essentially for utilising that glitch. Many other players would have used the exploit, that what it rewards, doing it legitimately is just a longer and tougher solution.

Not that using an exploit can substitute the personal satisfaction of gaining a difficult cheevo on you're own steam. My hat's off to anyone who puts in the time and effort:)

xsoenx:
nice story did the glitches at the end, with 2 friends.
Bit to all you who say that glitching and such is bad, HAVE YOU TRIED L4D on xbox 360??? it is 5 times harder than the pc version, nobody on 360 has done this legit because it is so hard, we all uses these glitches because they are pretty much a part of the game for us.
And donīt tell me you never have cheated,used exploits or glitch in some game at all

You sir, are a liar. I got 1000/1000 on the 360 without glitching or cheating.

The trick is to not suck.

I like the glitch that Valve did to me.

Erased the amount of zombies I killed due to a patch, so I got reset for a certain achievement I was working towards slowly.

Thanks alot, guys.

Cool.

Now do it in Killing Floor. :3

perpetualburn:
I don't really care how you obtained the achievements, but I'm curious...Doesn't cheating lessen the feeling of achievement? In other words, against the point of Achievements?

I'd say it depends. You got people who play the games, and see achievements as just some numbers and if they're close to nabbing 1k/1k, aren't going to wax moralities of glitching a game that affects nobody but themselves. Then you have people who whine and moan and groan the second others make an achievement somehow less "extraordinary" in only their own eyes, by getting it through some other means.

These are the same people who will yell at and remove their friends from the friends list just because they have the infamous 5m-1k Avatar game in their gamerscore list. And honestly, I find it rather pathetic people would become so anal over what is essentially just a few insignificant digits.
They've become so invested in the achievements, its a wonder if they ever manage to play games that DON'T have achievement points in it. It becomes less of the enjoyable activity gaming is meant to be to the general demographic, and some e-peen waving contest who indulge themselves in meaningless bouts of tossing around their "scores" as if it proves they are somehow better than the other.

Me? I'm the former. Was it glitching that I saved before making important choices that got me achievements in DA Origins? How about this.
I glitched my cunning up to 500, so I could make sure I got the ending I actually wanted in Origins, because the game had decided to argue with me and not allow it otherwise. Note I was a warrior, and with 500 cunning, it didn't really do jack squat for me damage wise.

Or Mass Effect 2. I glitched my renegade bar to nearly full at the beginning of the game, taking a few hours and 250 saves. Why? So I could actually play the game as I wanted, as Mass Effect 1 would of allowed me to given some time. Why? Because I hate being either a complete D-bag or goody two shoes, and wanted to play my way and not be gimped because of it.

Is it so bad to glitch, when you're only doing it so you can play the way you want? Is glitching 1 35 pt achievement out of the 965 legitimate points you earned so horrible a thing? You're twisting your sand-filled panties into a bunch over nothing, plain and simple. It's a game, first and foremost its about enjoying the game, not getting a bigger e-wang than others, and being insulted when others have gotten half a millimeter bigger with a glitch.

edit: I'm also sure the tone of some people would change if, perhaps, some of the people who may glitch one or two rather taxing achievements were disabled in some way that made normal play harder.

It's funny because I already got that achievement for the PC by no-clipping through each and every campaign.

I legitimately finished all 4 campaigns on Expert, though I died at the rescue vehicle in Blood Harvest. With 3/4 complete, I decided to make another go at Blood Harvest one day, but then an update stripped all of my achievement progress. That was the moment I realized I didn't really care about filling up my achievements.

Achievement glitches in Left 4 Dead are a double-edged sword.

this article reminds me of my time with Xmen Origins Wolverine. The cheats in that game removed the achievement credits, but if you quit out of the game to the menu, it would return the achievement credit (so you could get achievements) but the cheats would not disable. So I got 1000 points on that with cheating, but it still took me a solid week of playing to do it, more time then most other games I play.

I've had a couple achievement glitches with L4D as well, but more along the lines of getting an achievement the instant I boot the game up without doing anything, from a mode I never play (versus).

I was almost on a pro team back in the day, but my schedule didn't allow it. :( My friend and I got so good that we ran people through experts for FUN, and we did it (mostly) legit. We would use the tank safe room door thing and I think that was it.

The Imp:
1. There are no Zombies in Left4Dead. Even the developers said their monsters are infected humans.
2. What is a "Gamescore"?
3. No, never, under no circumstances what so ever are cheats, exploits or glitches okay - at least in a MP game.

Great input. Allow my rebuttle:
1. Who gives a shit?
2. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gamerscore
3. He wasn't asking if they were ok, he was talking about how fun the experience was regardless of legitimacy of acquiring the achievements.

Sidenote- one definition of Zombie: 'automaton: someone who acts or responds in a mechanical or apathetic way'.

Ah, the finale glitch.
I remember people doing that.
I had the opposite glitch.
Surviving campaigns on expert and not getting credit for it.
That sucked balls.

Achievements like that are for when you get TOO good.

I've played Left 4 dead for something like 100 hours, you get SO GOOD that normal mode you will never go below about 70hp, is when the game becomes boring and you HAVE to turn up the difficulty.

Glitching for achievement points has to be the most pathetic things in the world. The points in them self are MEANINGLESS! Glitching for them makes them worthless. It's nothing but obsessive compulsive disorder "gotta have 100%" bullshit.

But if you think about it you are NOT getting 100% out of the game.

You are denying yourself the stage of getting so good you have to raise the challenge to get "technically" 100%.

If you actually played the game as it was intended then

Example of why it is so hard even playing just finale on Expert: no pacing. If you played through the whole campaign on Expert you would be slowly immersed and train your reflexes to deal with the new threat.

But switching to expert that the HARDEST STAGE is just too steep a difficulty curve!

It doesn't matter how you achieve them in my opinion, just as long as you have fun achieving them. At the end of the day, it is just a form personal accomplishment.

People are taking this well too seriously.

Brian Hendershot:

I kinda miss the good old days of Left for Dead. Left for Dead 2 just doesn't cut it for me.

This. L4D2 just lacks something. Not even sure what, but despite several game mechanic improvements, and great new infected, something is just missing that L4D had.

That said, I'm torn on the column. Its cool that he had fun with his friends. I'm all for that. I'm not so sure its cool that the achievements were "achieved" illegitimately.
Of course, i'm not so sure how I feel about achievements in general.

Some are great. Like "saint" from DR1, which added challenge to the game and gives a nice feel of accomplishment on completion. Or "irony" from Bioshock, which added a little bit of humor to the experience and recognized how players think. I'm all for any achievement that can enhance the experience.

I'm torn on some of the achievements that seem to serve no purpose than to encourage multiple play throughs. Take D.A. Origins for example. I'll probably never add that game to my completed list (as much as I'd like to have it there) because I cant justify playing through the game times to make a different decision at every major plot point. i.e. siding with the werewolves instead of the elves this time around. Yea, I know I could stop, load a save, play it out, and reload to get those achievements, but I cant be bothered because I dont really play the game FOR achievements, I play it to be immersed in a fantasy game. Hopping in and out of saves for the sake of not missing an achievement does not feel conducive to immersion.
Of course the other side of that coin is that playing again does allow me to see all the dialog and such like it did for me in Mass Effect. Torn.

I loathe most other types of achievement, particularly online only achievements. I don't know if you all know it, but xbox live is kind of a sewer. And I dont like that several achievements in some of my favorite games require me to go wading in the sewer to get them. Thats not even talking about the effect that "boosting" (when did we stop calling cheating by name?) can have in online play. I don't know how many multiplayer experiences i've had wrecked by players not really playing the game, but playing for achievements.

Collectible achievements are rarely more than time sinks. the intel achievement from MW2 for example, because there's zero net effect on gameplay for going out of your way to get these stupid things. I didnt mind Bioshock's "historian" so much because at least it fleshed out the story behind raptures collapse.

Worst thing about any achievement is Gamerscore. Why does each achievement have to have some arbitrary number attached to it? I cant see one benefit of gamerscore that cant be outweighed by the cheating/account theft that it inspires.

Yea, I know, I rambled a bit afield, I tend to do that bored at work.

Back on topic: Good for the OP for having fun in a great game with his friends, BOO HISS to glitching and the OCD worship of gamerscore/achievements that leads to the very behavior that makes them even more meaningless.

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