Extra Punctuation: Getting Innovation Wrong

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DayDark:
Next console control upgrade should be the Trackball Controller:

image

A thousand times.. THIS.

I'm already years ahead of the majority of PC gamers because I use a $100 Kensington Trackball Mouse... can't believe this hasn't been tried yet.

Raeil:

Hexenwolf:

Raeil:
[Edit: This point is incorrect due to me not reading every word of the article. Thanks to mjc and rje for point out that Yahtzee addresses this.] Finally, this: "I'm trying to think of ways to employ a touch screen and a TV, and the problem I keep bumping against is that the player can only look at one screen at a time." You're right, they can only look at one screen at a time, that explains why the Nintendo DS has flopped completely... oh wait, it's the highest selling handheld of all time (if you use the numbers for all its iterations).

Just wanted to address this.

You can look at both screens when playing a DS. Not perfectly focus on both, but you can certainly be aware of what's going on on the other screen. This is because they're next to each other. Unlike a tv/controller combo in which the only way to put the screens next to each other is to hold up the controller in front of you, which is considerably more uncomfortable than normal. He specifically addresses this. Besides, he likes the DS.

Thank you for ignoring the edit, placed before the point itself, where I acknowledge this fact...

The way forum posts are usually edited makes it appear that the entire paragraph was the edit.

Srdjan Tanaskovic:
Yahtzee I know you probably aren't doing it intentionally but I can't help but feel that no mater what Nintendo does these days you complain

Motion Control: Bad
3DS: Bad
New Games in there franchises: Bad
Upcoming Console: Bad

I mean really?

Squilookle:
And you know what? Blue Ray and HD-DVD were exactly the same thing- a technological gimmick that nobody even needed.

there is a reason HD-DVD died and not Blu-Ray

Oroboros:
I agree that the Wii and 3DS are just gimmicks that don't really advance the industry. I still have my old fat DS and I have seen no need to upgrade. I don't see why I should upgrade to this ridiculously expensive piece of hardware when I can't conceivably gain anything by switching over, except possibly eye strain.

A. new Machine
B. New and better games
C. Improvement functionality
D. Virtual Console with more games
E. There is no eye strain

Hell using your logic one could ask why buy a new gaming machine next generation

image Also, much better graphics than the old DS

I couldn't agree with you more, Yahtzee. I hope this 3D madness will end soon. MADNESS!

Nile McMorrow:
"Like a "suggestive and vaguely insulting gesture" button."

This was funny but everyone knows that your pinkie is for poking the guy next to you in an attempt to make them lose concentration.

I agree with the comment about the touchpad controller, it makes it seem pointless unless you have to angle it in a way that lets you see the TV and the controller's screen at the same time which sounds like a pretty crap version of the DS. I hope its cordless though, no need to go so far back to the gamecube controller.

Man, a wireless controller with a texture simulating touch screen and motion controls would either be the heaviest controller in existence or have the shortest battery life it'd be rather pointless.

Custard_Angel:
Yahtzee is writing an opinion piece.

This is his opinion:

3D is a fad that needs to die because it can't possibly advance the medium in any meaningful way.

Take it or leave it.

take it or leave it? that's your answer? so much for free speech. anyway, you pretty much got it right. his article is his opinion on 3D, then adding free Nintendo bashing along the way.

My point it, he is 100% entitled to not liking 3D, but ranting the way he did serves nothing, if perhaps sensationalistic and fire spirits up, but in the end he will have provided nothing toward a solution or providing directions that can help understand why 3D is a fad, why it needs to die, or, on the other way, what are the challenges to truly make it relevant and successful. Yahtzee is a professional writer, successful business man, i think that entitles us to some form of quality in his statements. if i wanted random ranting on gaming, id be happy reading blogs from random joes that barely made it thru high school.

The one use that comes to mind with the touch pad on a controller is mimicing a mouse. An RTS game could become popular on a console this way.

But Yahtzee, MovieBob says that the new Nintendo controllers might use haptic technology for virtual buttons to create virtual button feedback!

What about that Yahtzee? Huh? Huh? Wouldn't you prefer the controller's touch screen gently buzzing your fingertips to let you know you've pressed a virtual button? Wouldn't that be better than pressing an actual button? Huh? WOULDN'T IT!?!?!

Latinidiot:
But surely making a button for the pinkie will alienate our british friends!

Think of the tea drinkers!

He clearly meant a button that's pressed by extending the pinky. :)

eniac0:

Custard_Angel:
SNIP

take it or leave it? that's your answer? so much for free speech. anyway, you pretty much got it right. his article is his opinion on 3D, then adding free Nintendo bashing along the way.

My point it, he is 100% entitled to not liking 3D, but ranting the way he did serves nothing, if perhaps sensationalistic and fire spirits up, but in the end he will have provided nothing toward a solution or providing directions that can help understand why 3D is a fad, why it needs to die, or, on the other way, what are the challenges to truly make it relevant and successful. Yahtzee is a professional writer, successful business man, i think that entitles us to some form of quality in his statements. if i wanted random ranting on gaming, id be happy reading blogs from random joes that barely made it thru high school.

Yahtzee is a random joe with a blog. He happens to be known by a lot of people but that doesn't mean he's expected to do anything more than what he's been doing all along. This sort of stuff is why he is one of the worlds most popular figures in gaming.

He got to where he is today by being a harsh critic, complaining about petty things and using colourful language when a mundane description would suffice.

Yahtzee isn't trying to win any journalistic awards. He isn't trying to win a Pulitzer prize. He isn't attempting to build a business empire around his work.

He's just a guy doing what he likes to do in the time he can do it. Some might call it opportunism, I call it living the dream.

Wow that is fairly low aim with current generation technology pc's which what nintendo is basically building it from.

Worr Monger:

DayDark:
Next console control upgrade should be the Trackball Controller:

image

A thousand times.. THIS.

I'm already years ahead of the majority of PC gamers because I use a $100 Kensington Trackball Mouse... can't believe this hasn't been tried yet.

There's a reason pc mice don't have balls any more just laser sensors. Its because all the muscles for the hand are in the forearm and wrists. Professional artist draw from the wrist to achieve superior accuracy on there movements which what you can do with high end laser mice. But the idea for console gamers is great.

I have NEVER been fooled by 3D. To me, it's always been a stupid gimmick, may only for certain kinds of movies. I don't see how it's going to improve games.

murphy7801:

Worr Monger:

DayDark:
Next console control upgrade should be the Trackball Controller:

image

A thousand times.. THIS.

I'm already years ahead of the majority of PC gamers because I use a $100 Kensington Trackball Mouse... can't believe this hasn't been tried yet.

There's a reason pc mice don't have balls any more just laser sensors. Its because all the muscles for the hand are in the forearm and wrists. Professional artist draw from the wrist to achieve superior accuracy on there movements which what you can do with high end laser mice. But the idea for console gamers is great.

I never said my Trackball didn't have lasers sensors... This beauty is what every PC gamer should have:
image

grumbel:
Except that works perfectly fine without a second screen. Put the face in the HUD and do the voice via the regular TV speaker. Problem solved, plenty of games do it that way.

Clauging up the display is NOT "perfectly fine" it is "the best we can do."

Again, put it on the HUD, use Dpad to select stuff. Tons of games do that, it works. Second screen would at little to nothing.

Except it doesn't, and is one of the many reason people still play FPSes on their PCs. It is clunky at best and greatly inefficient with items more than the Call of Duty: Black Ops number.

If the screen could act as touchpad

The same rumour states that it does, moving on.

But that's the problem. Those are all little gimmicks that don't really change anything

UI is big big big. Your UI is easily one of the most important aspects about your game, and can make or break the entire experience, no matter your aim: competative gaming, casual audience, artistic expression, even board games rely on the UI to capture the player.

I'm not sure it's going to be what's going to get console gaming out of this weird little experimental transitional phase, but we'd better come up with something soon or the poor innocent children (handhelds) will continue to be bewitched by strange men offering sweets (3D) as the next leap forward is sought.

Reading through this article, I started thinking about evolution. The bolded section, in particular, acts as an interesting parallel. Just as living creatures evolve, and mutations cause various mutations, so too do gaming companies (and really, all companies) experiment to see what works. The main difference lies in the definition of what 'works': in organisms, survival until mating is as close to a standard as you can get. For a builder of any sort, the ability to stand for a while works. For artists, the ability to stimulate the imagination is essential.

People are always going to try to be artistic. People are always going to try new things. People are always going to act on their whims. There's a very simple reason why: what works today may not work tomorrow. That instinct drives us to test our limits. While some may want to settle into consistent routines, a part of us knows that such a state cannot continue forever. If something keeps working, then fine. It can make it into the next generation. If not, it dies out. But we need to try it to be sure.

~A video game nerd with a cursory knowledge of high school biology

I have to question where all of these leaks about the new Nintendo system are coming from. I don't see how a controller with a touch screen is going to cost less than $100, let alone one of any quality, and especially not with some kind of a haptic system that allows people to feel textures that don't actually exist. And about that haptic system -- the only thing I know of that can do that manipulates sound waves in such a way that the air actually vibrates into something resembling the texture you're looking for. The problem with it is that, well, it uses sound waves; from what I remember, a big part of why it hasn't been marketed in anything so far is because it has the potential to cause major hearing damage to anyone sitting close enough to it to use it. Is Nintendo really capable of doing all of this, and getting it into a package that costs less than the system which uses it? Color me skeptical.

P.S.: I can't disagree more with Yahtzee about the "best case" for 3D; he clearly didn't see Toy Story 3 in 3D, or apparently any film that was 3D from inception, or even a 3D videogame of the type commonly found on the 3DS. Properly handled, 3D isn't cardboard cutouts at all; the movies that have that problem were all converted to 3D from 2D sources. I'm not saying the technology is perfect, but give credit where credit is due.

While I am not sure 3D is a wise avenue (my stance is similar to Roger Ebert's on 3D in film), I think Nintendo was very creative by making it not require glasses. Still, I always get the vibe that Yahtzee hates any innovation by a AAA studio, and loves that of indie developers. Sometimes, I think that if he had been famous from the start of the gaming industry, he would have fought rumble packs and analogue sticks as the 'flavor of the month' and 'gimmicks'.

I really can't help but think that if an indie studio had developed a game that could produce 3D images without glasses, he would be falling over himself to proclaim this is an example of why indie studios are the future.

The consoles as we know it will die out when digital distribution becomes the primary form of gaming. When that happens, exclusives will die out, and people will all begin to wonder why we need more than one console.

Then there will be only one. And Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft will all manufacture these consoles, and make their own software. Also, they will all make tons more money than they are now.

Why can't they understand this?

Eh. Clearly Yahtzee wrote this before the latest rumours came up.

Decent haptic feedback means you can probably make a decent attempt at using a touchscreen without looking at it.

Better still, the one demonstration video shown of that kind of technology shows it can be applied to curved surfaces, and areas that aren't a screen.

This means it can be applied (in what I would consider the ideal case) the grips of the controller.

(Hence, the area where your palm, and most of your fingers are usually in contact with the controller.)

Lots of options for 'extra' dynamic buttons, and lots of options for touch feedback.

Also, yes, stereoscopic 3d is a half-assed trick that is unlikely to ever get past being a gimmick.

But holographic 3d, is according to recent rumours, about a year from a practical (if incredibly expensive) commercial implementation.

And once you have a holographic 3d display, rather than a stereoscopic one, most of the limitations that stop 3D doing anything useful suddenly go away.

You can have proper depth. From something floating right in front of your nose, to something well into the screen at a huge virtual distance...
You won't need glasses. (because if you did, the holographic principle wouldn't actually work anyway)
Your eyes will be able to focus correctly on the light patterns. (because they are reconstructions of the natural way light would fall on your retina for a set of objects with a given 3d relationship to the viewer)
Chances are, because the effect of the most probable implementation relies on real-time processing (because the location of the viewer is part of the calculation), all existing 3d content will probably work on such a holographic display without needing explicit modification.
That means even if such displays start out horrendously expensive, they are a viable 'soft' upgrade from other 3d displays, because unlike moving from 2d to 3d, you don't need to alter the content to do it. (well, not necessarily. - There's probably a mathematically more efficient way of encoding 3d for holographic displays than simply using the method stereoscopic 3d uses for saving such content. - but that doesn't mean 3d content for stereoscopic displays couldn't be tweaked to work. Obviously, content explicitly designed for a holographic display can do without artificial restrictions caused by the limitations of stereoscopic 3d.)

The most serious limitations will be that the viewing angles, and allowable locations of objects (especially if they seem to be in front of the screen) means that the screen edges put a bit of a limit on where things are visible.
The (seemingly) most practical and useful implementation still requires a lot of processing power, and high-speed eye tracking to make it viable. (Both of which together limit the number of people that can watch a single 3D screen.)
And, the requirements of constructing displays in a manner somewhat different to current displays (3d or otherwise) - even if the overall implementation shares a lot of parts with more traditional displays - means the costs of the earliest models are probably going to be astronomical.

Hopefully, the alleged touch feedback will help users handle the touchscreen without looking at it.

And I'm too tired to go argue that pointer=analog combos are a step up from dual analogue.

Jumwa:
Usually the "Extra Punctuation" articles are a little more thought-out than the gripe and mock shtick for the videos, but this is just whining. And frankly, it's gotten tedious. Yes, you don't like motion controls. Yes, you have many convoluted reasons for why you think making a gimmicky new controller is a bad thing.

Don't forget, "Yes, you hate Nintendo."

It's the same old thing repeated over and over on a topic that seems little more than purely personal opinion justified by rambling sort-of-sensical arguments.

Yeah, I'm agreeing with this. I've almost stopped watching ZP for the same reason. It's just getting old.

I hate 3d in any form of entertainment, Roger Ebert agrees that 3D movies is stupid too.
Honestly I just don't find 3D that worth it...maybe some day it will look good

Squilookle:
And you know what? Blue Ray and HD-DVD were exactly the same thing- a technological gimmick that nobody even needed.

Um no.

HD-TVs had been making their way to the market in a steady pace. Screens have gotten bigger and so has the resolution. Blu-Ray was introduced to give you the full visual effect of your TV, something DVD could not. It also contained way mote storage than a DVD something the PS3 is taking advantage of.

Sure more and more is becoming digital downloads, but you can't expect people to have the opportunity to download 10s of gigabytes just yet, and the DVD is also running out of space.

So compared to 3D Blu-Ray was an expected evolution of the TV/film market.

Volkov:

Squilookle:
And you know what? Blu Ray and HD-DVD were exactly the same thing- a technological gimmick that nobody even needed.

I disagree with this. Higher-definition image does, actually, help watch some movies.

BUT:
- Most movies do not benefit from the higher definition.
- An image with EVEN higher definition than Blu Ray would NOT be useful. There is no use for any more pixels than that.
- The sound that both BR and HD-DVD provided is also about as good as is necessary for a home setup. I really don't think that any time in the next few decades sound systems will get so good that they will need higher definition sound than that carried by the blu ray.

Yeah see, what you listed pretty much sums up my thoughts on DVD.

Squilookle:
And you know what? Blue Ray and HD-DVD were exactly the same thing- a technological gimmick that nobody even needed.

Hey man. Don't hate on bluray.
Some of us are connoisseurs!
Your average DVD audio is 192kbps. I think the majority of my blurays have audio tracks that are at least 2000kbps, if not more. That alone was worth the switch for me.
If you think that isn't a significant jump in quality, get better speakers. If you don't think the image quality is better either, get a better TV.
And to add to that, PAL regions have to deal with a 4% speed-up on our DVD's. Doesn't sound like much, but that ends up being about a semi-tone increase in pitch and enough of a speed increase to totally destroy the pacing of everything you watch. If you do not believe me, take one of your NTSC dvd's, play it with VLC player and put the speed thing in the bottom right corner to 1.04x and observe the difference for yourself.
Blurays all play at the correct speed, except for extremely lazy transfers (such as Four Lions, where the only versions you can get on physical media are both PAL, the DVD *AND* the bluray.)

I don't know about you, but I don't want to be viewing works of artistic genius at anything less that the optimum quality. If you don't care for quality, that's fine, but don't write it off just because you don't care about how shitty quality affects the experience of watching a film for those who do.

Anyway. Great article. Busted out the old PS2 recently, been playing some Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 and having some of the most fun I've had playing a video game in years. For all the technological and "artistic" advancement gaming has been making, it's the games that still feel like GAMES that really give me my kicks in this specific medium.
You can take your pseudo-realism, I'll stick to escapism in games.

I would REALLY LIKE TO KNOW why Yahtzee can swear in his articles, yet we cannot do so in the forums that is bs!

Um, I was under the impression that we could as long as it wasn't over the top and/or directed at someone?

Worr Monger:

murphy7801:

Worr Monger:

A thousand times.. THIS.

I'm already years ahead of the majority of PC gamers because I use a $100 Kensington Trackball Mouse... can't believe this hasn't been tried yet.

There's a reason pc mice don't have balls any more just laser sensors. Its because all the muscles for the hand are in the forearm and wrists. Professional artist draw from the wrist to achieve superior accuracy on there movements which what you can do with high end laser mice. But the idea for console gamers is great.

I never said my Trackball didn't have lasers sensors... This beauty is what every PC gamer should have:
image

You have piqued my interest.
I love the mouse. LOVE it. It's one of the main reasons I still prefer PC over console. But the one thing you can't do with a mouse is keep it moving indefinitely in one direction, which is a problem I've been thinking a trackball might solve without losing any of the accuracy. Hmm, decisions decisions...

You poor poor people, I can't even see 3D so I am saved from being dragged into the "greatness" from friends that 3D is supossed to be.

I don't even get how 3D became more popular than sliced bread.

Having no depth perception and therefore not being able to see 3D, I really fail to see what the fuss is about.

I got my 3DS for three reasons:

- I needed a DS that could go through WPA security.
- My old DS was exactly that, old.
- It has an analogue stick (kind of).

The whole 3D aspect can go rot somewhere for all I care.

Lukeje:

Yahtzee Croshaw:
And if you used the touch screen for extra contextual buttons then you'll run into the iPhone game problem that there'll be no physical feedback.

Isn't the screen supposed to have at least some sort of physical feedback?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109722-Rumor-Nintendos-New-Console-Will-Make-You-Feel

Physical feedback != tactile controls.

With a controller, you move your thumb, find the button, press the button. But most importantly, you don't HAVE to do step three immediately.

But with a touch screen, as soon as you touch it, that's a "press", which means theres no room for error, so you either have to have millimetre-fine spacial perception in your thumbs, or look at the screen. Or you have to hold your thumb above the screen, and a hour of that would be pretty painful.

Latinidiot:
But surely making a button for the pinkie will alienate our british friends!

Think of the tea drinkers!

SCANDAL!

One NEVER extends one's pinkie while holding a teacup! It the epitome of rudeness!

Worr Monger:

DayDark:
Next console control upgrade should be the Trackball Controller:

image

A thousand times.. THIS.

I'm already years ahead of the majority of PC gamers because I use a $100 Kensington Trackball Mouse... can't believe this hasn't been tried yet.

I had a trackball mouse when you were still at your mother's teate, they're little better than the mousepads on laptops.

Trolldor:

Worr Monger:

DayDark:
Next console control upgrade should be the Trackball Controller:

image

A thousand times.. THIS.

I'm already years ahead of the majority of PC gamers because I use a $100 Kensington Trackball Mouse... can't believe this hasn't been tried yet.

I had a trackball mouse when you were still at your mother's teate, they're little better than the mousepads on laptops.

Then you were doing it wrong.

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