Editor's Note: Better Than Before

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Better Than Before

Russ Pitts puts games aside for a moment to take stock of a momentous event: the death of Osama Bin Laden.

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Well done, Russ.

EDIT: I feel compelled to go into more detail. The overreaction of our own government is a very serious problem, and I am glad you addressed that. I think you managed to sum things up pretty well.

RelexCryo:
/Fingergun

Ninja'd, although it occurs to me that the article didn't really leave on a tone which a fingergun would be appropriate. Still, it was jarring that Russ' signature was missing.

Like I said in the forums somewhere, the collapse of the twin towers didn't really affect me all that much, seeing as I live on the other side of the world, but I know that Osama's death will go a long way to bringing closure to a lot of people, regardless of whether or not they were directly affected by the collapse itself. That's good enough for me.

Not being from USA, I never felt too much about both incidents, yes it was a great tragedy the twin towers event, but this last one I see it as people just enjoying that a president gave the order to kill an old man, yes there was a lot of power from that man and possible more terror, but why not judge him? why not to put him under law instead of just killing him?

(Not trying to flame just posting my opinion.)

Russ Pitts:
Editor's Note: Better Than Before

Russ Pitts puts games aside for a moment to take stock of a momentous event: the death of Osama Bin Laden.

Read Full Article

Nearly 10 years ago the nation, the world and I were awakened with a start, by the arrival of a new kind of enemy that ignores borders, wears no uniforms and makes no distinction between civilians and anyone else

I don't mean to sound like an utter prick BUT the WORLD did not awaken to that threat, America did. The rest of the world, my country included, have suffered at the hands of these organizations for a very long time.

I make no attempt to downplay the scale of 9/11, I DO resent the implication that until it happened to America it wasn't happening.

EDIT: To clarify to those who will willyfully misunderstand this. I refer to England suffering at the hands of the IRA, not England being attacked by Al-Queda...

I am not a citizen of this country which has been terrorized and traumatized by 9/11. But I still honestly feel glad that you and your people can feel satisfaction and even some kind of closure, most of all those who have lost someone during the attacks or the subsequent times.

It was a necessary act to kill Osama and I am glad that American troops were able to do it.

But at the same time I feel disgust for the sensationalist parts of the media and those people who can glorify the irrational demonisation and execution of a human being. The macabre media festival that I have been presented with over the last two days and the demand for graphic details and HD proof that this "SOB deserved what he got" leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

I can't really explain so well why I feel the urge to say something critical in a moment like this. But as much as I want to stand back and say nothing, I still have to ask...

Does the killing of bin Laden make the world a safer place? And why do I see childish glee and the naked lust for revenge with so many people instead of just honest satisfaction and a sense that justice has been served?

I do understand the fact that you are representing the views of the average American. I can even respect that. That kind of wanton violence is hard to cope with, and certainly those who died in the towers are innocent victims.

However, it does disturb me that this act, perpetrated by a group of ex-allies of the US in the Afghanistan War, enticed one of the costliest and strangest manhunts ever. Just how many lives (innocent ones) were lost in the "pursuit of justice"? What about the financial cost, for a country with an immense debt and undergoing a profound recession?

Finally, are Americans given a free border pass to conduct operations? By whom? So if the US thinks (and we all know just how badly their Intelligence can fail) a target is in country X, they are free to just put some Chinooks with SEALs there, trigger happy, to dispense sweet justice? Team America sadly comes to mind, here.

I just wish the average American could understand just how much their own country has brought most of the negative things that happened with them so far upon themselves. Let's hope Osama's death finally motivates the US to abandon their botched Middle-East policies and start taking care of the health and welfare of its own inhabitants.

Tuqui:
Not being from USA, I never felt too much about both incidents, yes it was a great tragedy the twin towers event, but this last one I see it as people just enjoying that a president gave the order to kill an old man, yes there was a lot of power from that man and possible more terror, but why not judge him? why not to put him under law instead of just killing him?

(Not trying to flame just posting my opinion.)

I'n a way i agree, and i live in the US. This is kinda hard for me to say in an inteligent way.
1) i think back on that sad day in 2001....it almost seemed like our country came to a screeching halt, and my work let everyone go home early that day...went home a checked the internet to see the other side cheering and celebrating to our tradegy (yes my spelling sucks)....i was heart broken , and even cried at the the loss of family of people i didnt even know...angry...pissed...kill em all mentality..but is that really the right thing?
2) flash forward to yesterday....a man was killed...a man i for the lack of words...lol totally not a fan of. Personally i dont care to hear about anyone getting killed, even if they deserve it, and yes he did!.....but a day later....on my phone i get jokes forwarded to me via txt, i see people celebrating in the streets....raising flags and all that...lol even a buddy of mine aimed a spotlight on his Red White & Blue so everyone could see it from the street from his 10th floor condo.....and yes i'm happy some justice was brought to the table

3)....i'm worried for us as a race of human beings....seriously.....it fucking disturbs me, that even in 10 years (and i know it takes a while, and grudges arent exactly easy to get rid of)...we as human beings, havent evolved....i'm not saying bend over and take it....but theres alot of people out there dancing in the streets, that really have nothing to do w/ all of it, same as the videos i watched about 10 years ago.....to me just seems to add fuel to the fire

As others who have posted here, i have to say i don't live nor am I a citizen of the USA.
These two events haven't really made me feel (almost) anything, and i haven't understand why the Americans are so happy that that terrorist leader is dead.
When the towers fell, i was young and naive enough to think that those things happen all the time, just like in the movies. And hey, America is like a million times bigger that my country. So i was puzzled why they made such a huge fuss about it (only later did i understand).

However, i think this article acutally made sense and helped me understand. I mean, i haven't seen anyone in the forums express themselves as thoroughly like Russ did. And it did make sense. Of course, there is no way to feel what (most) americans felt after 9/11 and are feeling now, because such stuff hasn't happened in my country. It happened somewhere far, far away.

But still, i have to say, this helped me (kinda) understand the feelings of (a portion of) Americans related to these incidents.

Celebrating the death of a human being. Jebus, what has the world come to? It's all about revenge rather than actual justice.

captainfluoxetine:

I don't mean to sound like an utter prick BUT the WORLD did not awaken to that threat, America did. The rest of the world, my country included, have suffered at the hands of these organizations for a very long time.

I make no attempt to downplay the scale of 9/11, I DO resent the implication that until it happened to America it wasn't happening.

EDIT: To clarify to those who will willyfully misunderstand this. I refer to England suffering at the hands of the IRA, not England being attacked by Al-Queda...

Also from England. Think I understand what you're getting at but the attack on WTC was on a grander scale than anything we witnessed (I think - I may have been too young for the whole IRA fiasco). The attack on WTC opened the worlds eyes to the threat of terrorism because nobody thought America could be hit so hard, not because nobody realised terrorism was actually going on around the world at the time.

FunKing:

I'n a way i agree, and i live in the US. This is kinda hard for me to say in an inteligent way.
1) i think back on that sad day in 2001....it almost seemed like our country came to a screeching halt, and my work let everyone go home early that day...went home a checked the internet to see the other side cheering and celebrating to our tradegy (yes my spelling sucks)....i was heart broken , and even cried at the the loss of family of people i didnt even know...angry...pissed...kill em all mentality..but is that really the right thing?
2) flash forward to yesterday....a man was killed...a man i for the lack of words...lol totally not a fan of. Personally i dont care to hear about anyone getting killed, even if they deserve it, and yes he did!.....but a day later....on my phone i get jokes forwarded to me via txt, i see people celebrating in the streets....raising flags and all that...lol even a buddy of mine aimed a spotlight on his Red White & Blue so everyone could see it from the street from his 10th floor condo.....and yes i'm happy some justice was brought to the table

3)....i'm worried for us as a race of human beings....seriously.....it fucking disturbs me, that even in 10 years (and i know it takes a while, and grudges arent exactly easy to get rid of)...we as human beings, havent evolved....i'm not saying bend over and take it....but theres alot of people out there dancing in the streets, that really have nothing to do w/ all of it, same as the videos i watched about 10 years ago.....to me just seems to add fuel to the fire

I understand what you say, I'm from Argentina, here we lived, the called, "dirty war", where military forces took the power through force and kept the country under a dictatorship, between terrible things that happened, people were spirited away, you could say, police forces had the right to detain you without a reason more than they though you were guilty, a lot of this people were never seen again, even pregnant women were victims of this, who's children were gave into adoption to military forces' families, police's families and civilians who knew and knew not of the origin of the children, Mother's and grandmothers of those children who survived has been since then marching in look for justice, not revenge, not hate, for justice, they always wanted the truth and the truth only about what happened, where are all the children. This actually is leading to a happy ending, it's estimated that 500 children were given during that years, more than 100 have been recovered from then and most of military responsible are being judged for crimes of lesa humanity. Lots of years have passed, hatred died in most of people, but memory of the events and the look for justice and not revenge is what must prevail. Sorry if I didn't explain it right, if you are interested google it it's a pretty interesting history event.

I'm from the UK too. I'm glad he's dead. Taking him alive would be a mistake. It would invite kidnappings to use as bartering for his release.

Russ, that is an excellent piece of writing - I'm using it to explain how many Americans feel to some of my anti-American acquaintances.

The way that Americans are reacting to his death reminds me the people who celebrated the Sept 11 attacks.

And then they try and dress it up with words like peace and justice and whatnot. If you feel that you must celebrate violent revenge and the death of an enemy then by all means do so. I can understand that. I've done it myself, albeit on a much smaller scale. It's what people do. But don't try to pretend that it's any more than that.

Frankly, the whole damned affair leaves me feeling mildly disgusted.

America has been mostly deprived of good news since 9/11. If the death of a mass murdering psychopath that was responsible for the deaths of thousands of my fellow citizens by destroying iconic American structures is not worth celebrating then what is?

OT: I was not one those partying in the streets though. I was content when I felt a satisfaction that surprised me and the closure of a wound I hid for ten years.

the twin towers probably the single biggest attack on a civilian target since nukes were dropped in Japan.

kind of ironic that the only attacks that compare were done by the victims of the most recent big one.

still doesnt make it right though alot of innocent people died it couldnt go un answered.
you shouldnt go dancing in the streets you killed someone took a life try not to be too happy win with some dignity.

The extermination of the modern Adolf Hitler aside, the western glorification of one mans death is an interesting study in human behaviour. Celebrating one mans death may seen primitive considering the circumstances. This isn't a death of a worldy, totalitarian oppressor. It is the death of idealistic, homocidal maniac without global political power. The death of Usama bin laden isn't based on freedom, it's pure revenge. A revenge that's justified mind you. Bali, New York, London and Madrid must never be forgotten. But partying like there is no tomorrow for the sake of revenge? I understand the obvious human nature of the current celebration but "An eye for an eye, makes the whole world blind", right?

If the situation will be improved after the death of a mad man however, I'll leave partly unanswered. Wars are still being fought, a new leader of Al Qaida is basicly ready to take over who might even be more dangerous since he is more idealistic and the US economy is still running rampant. Usama bin ladens death is a great victory, morality wise. Will it make the situation better? Maybe, but I'll stay cynical for the time being.

Russ Pitts:
Editor's Note: Better Than Before

Russ Pitts puts games aside for a moment to take stock of a momentous event: the death of Osama Bin Laden.

Read Full Article

Sooo, the death of some 100 000 civilians in the Middle East doesn't register with you? No. The death of one man who helped arrange an attack that murdered 2000 is what sparks a chord with you. All those 100 000 men, women and children just trying to live day to day. Yeah, the death of one man is much more of a talking point.

Hive Mind:

Russ Pitts:
Editor's Note: Better Than Before

Russ Pitts puts games aside for a moment to take stock of a momentous event: the death of Osama Bin Laden.

Read Full Article

Sooo, the death of some 100 000 civilians in the Middle East doesn't register with you? No. The death of one man who helped arrange an attack that murdered 2000 is what sparks a chord with you. All those 100 000 men, women and children just trying to live day to day. Yeah, the death of one man is much more of a talking point.

You miss the point.

This hit him closer to home.

Him, as a single person in a country that had it's foundations shook.

He feels the pain that it caused because he CAN.

We can attempt to care about those far away, but honestly it's harder to grasp.

Also, I apologize for the vague and lacking explanation.

I'm in a hurry.

Russ Pitts:
Editor's Note: Better Than Before

Russ Pitts puts games aside for a moment to take stock of a momentous event: the death of Osama Bin Laden.

Read Full Article

I know editors necessarily have very thick skins, so this is probably a needless comment, but try to ignore the folks attacking your position. Those of us who share it recognize the following:

1. You're not universally praising every move the government has made, but you don't feel this is the time at which you have to enumerate your various grievances with them.

2. You're not claiming this was the first terrorist attack ever, but it was certainly one that was very visible (just given America's world status). It was indeed a game-changer, and it is not jingoistic to say so.

3. You're not comparing or weighing losses with other countries here. This one hurts you because you had a personal stake in it. I don't imagine anyone in South Africa was crying over 9/11 if they didn't have friends or family among the victims, just like I don't cry over every traffic accident in Moscow. It's not selfish, it's honest--a splinter in my foot hurts me more than you getting your foot cut off hurts me, so I'm going to react more strongly to that.

All that crap aside, and returning to the topic of the issue, this brings our own "cliffhanger ending" to a somewhat anti-climactic close. We can finally move on to the next installment in our own national "series."

8-Bit Grin:

Hive Mind:

Russ Pitts:
Editor's Note: Better Than Before

Russ Pitts puts games aside for a moment to take stock of a momentous event: the death of Osama Bin Laden.

Read Full Article

Sooo, the death of some 100 000 civilians in the Middle East doesn't register with you? No. The death of one man who helped arrange an attack that murdered 2000 is what sparks a chord with you. All those 100 000 men, women and children just trying to live day to day. Yeah, the death of one man is much more of a talking point.

You miss the point.

This hit him closer to home.

Him, as a single person in a country that had it's foundations shook.

He feels the pain that it caused because he CAN.

We can attempt to care about those far away, but honestly it's harder to grasp.

Also, I apologize for the vague and lacking explanation.

I'm in a hurry.

The U.S and their occupation of various Middle Eastern countries has caused more death than the 9/11 attacks. By FAR. Have you see the footage of U.S troops shooting a man and a baby? "His fault for bringing a baby into a warzone." "Too right." - U.S troops. I'm sorry, "warzone"? You mean THEIR HOME? Turns out the man was unarmed and was going to church with his family. The whole bloody war was started decades ago by the damn U.S.

I'm so sick of Americans crying while they invade people's homes and slaughter them. How hard your life is, murdering people in their home. 'Remember 9/11? Oh how the world changed!' Just doesn't sound... right, when you are occupying people's backyards and turning the world to shit.

If you have more empathy for 2000 strangers than 100 000 strangers because they speak your language and have your skin colour, you need medical help.

As a person from eastern europe,I've always had a bad view on America and what it does to the rest of the world.I knew that 9/11 was a tragedy but I thought to myself,maybe it's a message that needs to be sent.Stop going into wars where you're not needed,stop trying to enforce your way of life and politics.I've never actually looked at it from that perspective so I thank the Russ for giving me that insight.That of a person living in America who took a whole lotta shit because of what happened.

..I know how you feel, Russ. I mourned the death of my hamster once. Took me weeks to get over it. Scarred me for life.

I think this is way more of a thing for just Americans than Americans realise.

Like that awful speech in Independence Day. Talk about cringe - no amount of Will Smith can balance that out.

As for Bin Laden... eh. What it seems they've done is killed the guy who knew the most about all that was going on, but not the guy who was the single pin holding the entire cause together (because there isn't one). Not much of a victory.

Tuqui:
yes there was a lot of power from that man and possible more terror, but why not judge him? why not to put him under law instead of just killing him?

This is pure speculation on my part, but I think it's very possible that the entry team had orders to take him alive if possible, but since bin Laden started firing at them, they fired back.

UNHchabo:

Tuqui:
yes there was a lot of power from that man and possible more terror, but why not judge him? why not to put him under law instead of just killing him?

This is pure speculation on my part, but I think it's very possible that the entry team had orders to take him alive if possible, but since bin Laden started firing at them, they fired back.

Nothing against you, but if they are capable of a head shot they could also target arm or hands to make him drop his weapon, also speculating.

Zhukov:
The way that Americans are reacting to his death reminds me the people who celebrated the Sept 11 attacks.

And then they try and dress it up with words like peace and justice and whatnot. If you feel that you must celebrate violent revenge and the death of an enemy then by all means do so. I can understand that. I've done it myself, albeit on a much smaller scale. It's what people do. But don't try to pretend that it's any more than that.

Frankly, the whole damned affair leaves me feeling mildly disgusted.

Osama Bin Laden was responsible for not only the deaths of thousands on Sept. 11, but as many as three million Afghans, and he was a figurehead for ultraconservative movements in muslim countries all around the globe, many of whom are responsible for brutal acts in their own countries.

It ain't just the West that's glad he's gone, is my meaning. The world is a better place without him. And one can be happy that the man is dead and not approve of the changes that happened over the ten years as a result of the hunt.

Also, for people who lost a friend or family member in the Sept. 11 attacks, this is important closure. It may be nothing more than symbolism, but symbolism is sometimes important.

Dastardly:

1. You're not universally praising every move the government has made, but you don't feel this is the time at which you have to enumerate your various grievances with them.

It doesn't matter, you know. 2000 people die every day because of wars none of you know why is fought. More people than that die every day from curable diseases. Hell, people die every day because they don't have access to clean drinking water.

The truth is that the "personal stake" people have in this one event is predicated in large parts on the idea that Osama bin Laden is another Hitler-person that embodies the evil of everything on the planet. The actual impact is exclusively emotional - and it's experienced by people who did not have relatives or friends anywhere near New York.

It's childish, it's offensive, and it reveals a world-view so narrow it is hard to accept it's even possible.

Not only that - but the empathy is also exclusive. It's not just blue-eyed fascination with victims around the world. Oh, no. It's very clearly /only/ about "that momentous day". And then that emotional scar is "healed" by killing some random raghead in the Afghan mountains.

But you've no idea how offensive this stuff is to the rest of us, now have you?

Imagine a council-meeting. On the Agenda is: War in Sudan, War in Afghanistan, Relief efforts in Libya, security force authorisation and ROEs, organisation of private military companies and private relief agencies, usage of foreign technical resources for rebuilding efforts.

And the fat guy with one of the votes comes in and demands we should all stand in a moment of silence because his aunt passed away.

No offence, but go to hell.

Tuqui:

UNHchabo:

Tuqui:
yes there was a lot of power from that man and possible more terror, but why not judge him? why not to put him under law instead of just killing him?

This is pure speculation on my part, but I think it's very possible that the entry team had orders to take him alive if possible, but since bin Laden started firing at them, they fired back.

Nothing against you, but if they are capable of a head shot they could also target arm or hands to make him drop his weapon, also speculating.

It's just not that simple. If someone's shooting at you, you're going to aim at whatever you can see. If he was shooting from behind cover, it's very possible that part of his head was all that was visible. Or maybe they were aiming for center-of-mass, and "missed" high.

There are a very small selection of scenarios where it's possible to "shoot the gun out of the hand" on purpose. That's only really possible if they're holding the gun away from themselves (hostage scenarios are the most common); otherwise they'll likely be holding the gun near their head (to look down the sights).

Woodsey:
I think this is way more of a thing for just Americans than Americans realise.

QFT.

The sad thing is that there was a more or less worldwide feeling of sympathy and solidarity toward the USA in the days, weeks and months after 9/11, but it didn't last. Mistrust over the motives of the coalition in going to war in Iraq, and the dismal realisation that the coalition had no idea of how to win the peace, saw to that.

It's a nice pre-election boost for Obama, and a 'feel good' story for the US, but in the long run it changes nothing. To draw an analogy appropriate to this site, the final boss may have been killed, but his minions will continue to respawn.

UNHchabo:

It's just not that simple. If someone's shooting at you, you're going to aim at whatever you can see. If he was shooting from behind cover, it's very possible that part of his head was all that was visible. Or maybe they were aiming for center-of-mass, and "missed" high.

There are a very small selection of scenarios where it's possible to "shoot the gun out of the hand" on purpose. That's only really possible if they're holding the gun away from themselves (hostage scenarios are the most common); otherwise they'll likely be holding the gun near their head (to look down the sights).

Oh, thanks for explaining, I now nothing about guns, I understand now a little more, and Yeah I see what you mean.

nipsen:
And the fat guy with one of the votes comes in and demands we should all stand in a moment of silence because his aunt passed away.

No offence, but go to hell.

Who told you that you had to? No one. No one anywhere is telling anyone that they must believe this is significant. They're only saying it is significant to them, and then they're having to defend that position by saying you should allow them to find it significant to themselves.

Sorry, but my aunt passing away has more emotional pull for me than an orphan dying in a fire in China. It's not because I hate orphans, or because I believe they're less valuable than my aunt. It's because I know my aunt, and now she's dead. It's just far more immediate a loss, and I can see its effect in my life right before my eyes.

Americans all over are celebrating. They are not, however, demanding that you celebrate, or demanding that you watch them celebrate. Your outrage is self-manufactured, and it reflects a very intensely arrogant point of view that everyone everywhere must share your priorities so you don't have to endure hearing them celebrate something you're not excited about.

Woodsey:
I think this is way more of a thing for just Americans than Americans realise.

That's just it, though. We totally realize it's just an American thing. And we're Americans. So we're celebrating. And our reporters here in America are reporting about all these Americans that are celebrating.

And then people in other countries are watching these American news videos or reading these American news stories and they happen to be seeing us celebrating. But we're not telling them to celebrate. We're not telling them this has to matter to them at all. We're just celebrating, and other people are watching us.

I just haven't seen any indication that people are trying to push this on non-Americans. If England or Australia or Japan or Korea or Russia are having a slow news day, and they decide to report about how much those Americans are celebrating, that's not us. That's them.

John Funk:
Osama Bin Laden was responsible for not only the deaths of thousands on Sept. 11, but as many as three million Afghans, and he was a figurehead for ultraconservative movements in muslim countries all around the globe, many of whom are responsible for brutal acts in their own countries.

It ain't just the West that's glad he's gone, is my meaning. The world is a better place without him. And one can be happy that the man is dead and not approve of the changes that happened over the ten years as a result of the hunt.

Also, for people who lost a friend or family member in the Sept. 11 attacks, this is important closure. It may be nothing more than symbolism, but symbolism is sometimes important.

To go a bit further, even, the victory is that bin Laden has been stopped. The fact that he was killed is as unfortunate as any death, no matter how necessary it may have been. Death isn't what we're celebrating.

We're celebrating that he was stopped, not how he was stopped.

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