Stolen Pixels #257: The Electronic Artists

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Azaraxzealot:

what if it was an endless loop of "Baby" by justin bieber mixed with Lady Gaga's "poker face"

Oh good god, remove that from your comment before someone thinks that is a good idea.

I'm sending over a squad to have your brain scrubbed anyway, a mind that thought that up is clearly deviant and needs to be purged.

:P

On topic now. Eh, even if they remove more RPG elements that alone won't ruin the game for me. Mass Effect was never much of an RPG to begin with. In my opinion from day one it has been an action/shooter with great characters and writing.

I hate this comic strip's snide insinuations.

Azaraxzealot:

SirBryghtside:

Azaraxzealot:
fanboy complainer is a fanboy complainer.

i have faith in BioWare.

Always.

the only thing that could make Mass Effect 3 suck is if it was a disc with just an endless loop of the "nyan" cat with shepherd's face photoshopped onto the cat

...that wouldn't suck. XD

what if it was an endless loop of "Baby" by justin bieber mixed with Lady Gaga's "poker face"

DEAR. GOD.

mjc0961:
I still think it's a bit too early to think that a few vague statements that are in marketing speak are enough to say they ruined the game.

Azaraxzealot:
the only thing that could make Mass Effect 3 suck is if it was a disc with just an endless loop of the "nyan" cat with shepherd's face photoshopped onto the cat

Yep. If they said they were doing that for sure, then the game would suck and be ruined. Nyan cat needs to go die in a fire.

How dare you say that! I'm like, nyan cat's biggest fan! I know all the lyrics to his songs!

The comic was funny.

But most of us have heard every negative to be said on this subject, over and OVER again, and to say you're beating the shit out of that dead horse is a dramatic understatement.

Bottom line, laughable amounts of whinging about a game people really know jack shit about to one side, I'd bet money that most of us on this forum will be playing Mass Effect 3 the week it comes out.

Eh, I don't think its that confusing.

When they say they're making it a better shooter, they're talking about combat. Better RPG? Conversations.

I am worried by the wider audience thing though - the games are great, but they're not exactly complex.

Oh hey look, it's every mass effect 3 thread ever, in convenient comic form!

GiantRaven:
I'm confused as to why people expect Bioware to just keep making the same type of game (action RPG) over and over. Shouldn't we encourage a developer to try different styles of play? I was under the impression that stagnation was a bad thing...

Also, Mass Effect is far better as a shooter with dialog option and moral choices than as an RPG with simplistic shooter-based gameplay.

while i agree, don't you think we have enough companies making shooters already?

Ephraim J. Witchwood:
Still gonna be great.

Quit crying, people. At least until you've actually played it.

Yes complain about the product only after you paid for it, herp derp.

I will reserve my judgment until the demo is out, but i will be brutal based on how it plays and feels.

Tin Man:
The comic was funny.

But most of us have heard every negative to be said on this subject, over and OVER again, and to say you're beating the shit out of that dead horse is a dramatic understatement.

Bottom line, laughable amounts of whinging about a game people really know jack shit about to one side, I'd bet money that most of us on this forum will be playing Mass Effect 3 the week it comes out.

Ah ah, but we DO know a bit more than jack shit about Mass Effect 3; it IS a sequel, and should share some of the spirit/elements of either/both ME1 and ME2.

If EA is making cases to investors to change the game that only the loyal fan base is helped or hurt by, I'd say EA is looking in the wrong direction. Some physics for a standing structure will tell you compromising the base leads to a better chance the structure will collapse.

We'll still go see how it turns out though, I'm pretty sure.

By the power of Captcha, may avereog justice prevail!

teebeeohh:
while i agree, don't you think we have enough companies making shooters already?

Shooters with intricate dialog trees? Not enough in my book.

Why does everyone automatically assume that making the game appeal to a broader market automatically means turning it into a generic shooter?

The comic was very funny, but I will still be buying ME3 and I am sure I will still enjoy it.

BloodSquirrel:

Chadling:
I can't believe I'm saying these words, but I have literally no desire to play Mass Effect 3. Unbelievable. I actually have no desire to play a Bioware game.

I'm calling them "Nu-Bioware" now. Let's face it, it's not like this is the same group of people that made KOTOR anymore. It's time to stop expecting the same standard of quality from what is obviously a very different group of people with obviously different priorities.

Post-DA2 I'd call heresy, they can still make good games, but they are lacking what made their previous work so damn good.

The_root_of_all_evil:
There's a reasonably easy way to tell what's going to happen.

A Big Company that makes its success out of annual titles to a large scale audience wants to tweak the product of a company that produces successful titles to a small scale audience.

It's not even science to predict that will mean removing elements that the large scale audience would find difficult to comprehend, and replacing them with things that the large scale audience like.

When they also say they want the game to be more like CoD; and we see the transition of characters in sequels, it's not hard to think that this will be Tits In, Thinky Out.

Because if you were going to change a best-selling piece of media to be available to a larger market, what would you do?

They want to replace thinking with tits?
Don`t tits do that themselves? : )

kelevra:
I'm with Shamus. Entirely.

Chadling:
I can't believe I'm saying these words, but I have literally no desire to play Mass Effect 3. Unbelievable. I actually have no desire to play a Bioware game.

And as much as it hurts, I agree.

Samed I feel like the quote *If you try to grab it all you'll end up with nothing." Seems like that whole we are just going o stay out of Bioware stuff turned out t be what people where saying BS.

Imp Emissary:

They want to replace thinking with tits?
Don`t tits do that themselves? : )

I don't know...I just saw a pair walk past the window...brb.

Have a little faith in Bioware. Plus, if anything is really wrong with the game, we can just blame EA.

On a side note, who hasn't wanted to shoot that goddamn reporter? Hell, I wanted to shoot her. And I always play Paragon!

GiantRaven:

teebeeohh:
while i agree, don't you think we have enough companies making shooters already?

Shooters with intricate dialog trees? Not enough in my book.

you have a point there. Although the guy who came with "dialog wheel" concept is sitting in his basement right now crying because you associated mass effect with dialog tree and not dialog spiral

teebeeohh:
you have a point there. Although the guy who came with "dialog wheel" concept is sitting in his basement right now crying because you associated mass effect with dialog tree and not dialog spiral

Eh, the only difference I see between the dialog wheel and listing the dialog choices is that it's easier for a console user to use with the analogue stick.

GiantRaven:

Eh, the only difference I see between the dialog wheel and listing the dialog choices is that it's easier for a console user to use with the analogue stick.

didn't the bioware guys made a lot of fuzz about how much more immersive dialogs the system is because the position of an option on the wheel gives you context. Like how the bottom right one is always more geared towards renegade.

also isn't it kinda a waste to outfit a shooter with complex dialog options? if you look at CoD you may get the opinion that most people who like shooters get bored unless there are at least 2 explosions every minute.

Hey.. wait a minute....

I HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED MASS EFFECT 2 YET!!!!

....

Ah, and now I remember why!

I was going to play through the first, then carry over to the second.

Look like tomorrow's going to be Mass Effect day...

As for Mass Effect 3, so long as its got good story and characters I'll probably play it! :D

Ehh, I'll reserve judgement until we have something more than words...

Both EA and Activision are famous for this. Theyll make changes to a game's mechanics, trying to appeal to a wider audience and make more money. Then they wind up pissing off and alienating the old customer base.

Ipsen:

Tin Man:
The comic was funny.

But most of us have heard every negative to be said on this subject, over and OVER again, and to say you're beating the shit out of that dead horse is a dramatic understatement.

Bottom line, laughable amounts of whinging about a game people really know jack shit about to one side, I'd bet money that most of us on this forum will be playing Mass Effect 3 the week it comes out.

Ah ah, but we DO know a bit more than jack shit about Mass Effect 3; it IS a sequel, and should share some of the spirit/elements of either/both ME1 and ME2.

If EA is making cases to investors to change the game that only the loyal fan base is helped or hurt by, I'd say EA is looking in the wrong direction. Some physics for a standing structure will tell you compromising the base leads to a better chance the structure will collapse.

I think your post highlights well one of the consistent issues I have with ME naysayers in general at the moment... You're missing the forest for the trees a little.

Some comments regarding adding some mainstream appeal(which could really mean anything or nothing. I'd say Mass Effect has a pretty strong mainstream appeal as is), and getting rid of some of the daft and silly stat based stuff from early installments(level up for a 2% increase in sell value. Yay?) doesn't mean an awful lot. The game is still Mass Effect the 3rd.

-There will still be an epic plot, completing the reaper/shepherd saga.
-Choices will still play a role in the game.
-Choices made in previous games will still play a role in the game.
-Different. Breeds. Of. Husk. Swarms. WIN.
-From what we've actually SEEN, we can fairly assume combat will be more of the good stuff, with MORE stats focusing on said combat, as has been directly stated by Bioware(which was the point of the 'stat games' post everyone managed to ignore).
-Weapon customisation will be returning, and be improved upon from the original(Good, cause having infinity attachments at stupid level increments(+4% physics resistance. Lolwut? And having to sell shit all the time was a right ballache...).

I honestly think the Mass Effect hating has become a kind of bandwagon now, cause I genuinely, honestly am NOTHING but excited about this game and really can't comprehend what was so sacred about the early games that people are so vehemently defending.

teebeeohh:
didn't the bioware guys made a lot of fuzz about how much more immersive dialogs the system is because the position of an option on the wheel gives you context. Like how the bottom right one is always more geared towards renegade.

I forgot about that. Good point.

also isn't it kinda a waste to outfit a shooter with complex dialog options? if you look at CoD you may get the opinion that most people who like shooters get bored unless there are at least 2 explosions every minute.

Erm...no? Was it a waste to give Deus Ex a deep, interesting story? Just because there is a group of fans that like a certain thing, it doesn't mean that other aspects of design cannot be considered. Not every fan of shooters is the stereotypical CoD-loving frat boy idiot (I wonder how true that stereotype is really, I've never seen an overwhelmingly large amount of people in that mould myself).

Are EA's investors really so uncomfortable with RPGs that they have completely forgotten about the seven million units sold already. Sure it isn't Cod but if not every franchise can or should be.

GiantRaven:

Erm...no? Was it a waste to give Deus Ex a deep, interesting story? Just because there is a group of fans that like a certain thing, it doesn't mean that other aspects of design cannot be considered. Not every fan of shooters is the stereotypical CoD-loving frat boy idiot (I wonder how true that stereotype is really, I've never seen an overwhelmingly large amount of people in that mould myself).

...
damn you now i have to reinstall deus ex because you mention it's awesomeness.

Just look at the sales: CoD sells extremely well every year and i am pretty sure that if a company like Bioware would add an incredible singleplayer campaign with a deep story and extremely well written and delivered dialog to a CoD game the vast majority of customers would never see it or skip through the cut scenes to get back to shooting people. That OK not everyone likes the same things and i do see the appeal that mindless shooting has but i think that using Bioware to make shooters is a waste because almost everyone who likes RPGs loves a good story while a lot of people(yes, the CoD-Halo-fratboy demographic among them) would just see a story as something that gets between them and shooting people.

short version: most shooter fans do not appreciate a good story in their shooters as much as RPGler appreciate a good story in their RPGs, thus Bioware should keep making PRGs.

edit: also, Deus ex is not a normal shooter in the way that if you strip aways all the story, item collection and character progression it's a horrible shooter.

teebeeohh:
damn you now i have to reinstall deus ex because you mention it's awesomeness.

My work here is done.

Just look at the sales: CoD sells extremely well every year and i am pretty sure that if a company like Bioware would add an incredible singleplayer campaign with a deep story and extremely well written and delivered dialog to a CoD game the vast majority of customers would never see it or skip through the cut scenes to get back to shooting people.

I'd like to think that people might experience something new and have their horizons expanded. That's probably just the optimist in me fleetingly showing itself for a second though.

Awesome! I wonder what else happens in the future. Surely Shamus knows.

I have no issue with speculation about the future of the ME series or any other series and, despite the fact that apparently my definition of RPG is different than it is to the majority of those on this site, I too think there`s some troubling info leaking about about the series. I don`t, however, have the same crystal ball that everyone else seems to have.

The game isn`t out yet. In fact, at this point we haven`t seen anything from the actual gameplay of ME3 at all. We`ve seen teaser trailers and basically cut scene stills. Period.

Don`t you think it may be just a teensy weensy tad early to be definitely stating how the game will play and how deep the RPG elements are at this point.

What's more disconcerting about the conflicting statements that they give to investors is... well, what's the truth? Are they telling the investors the truth, or are they telling gamers the truth? Never mind what the game will actually be like, this kind of talk seems like it's inherently designed to breed uncertainty and doubt in the fanbase. Neither we nor Bioware should be surprised about the reaction.

This comic is extra hilarious to anyone who watches Spoiler Warning. Not because of flaws in the game itself, but because of all the complaining Shamus did about Bioware.

And now he's complaining about EA taking control away from Bioware.

And then you get meta, and realize the this comic is doing the same thing it's mocking EA for doing.

There we have it the whole deciding if a game ia any good before playing it has now turned into deciding if a game is any good before they have even released it.

I will let time tell and play the game before i decide it is any good as i am one of those odd people that cant have an opinion on something before i have even tried it.

Concerning rpg elements I still stand that if they made a hybrid from Kotor and Jedi Knight it would be the greatest game ever.

Eh i'll say this now to quantify where i stand with this whole issue.

I loved playing DA2 and ME2, and looking back on their predecessors, i can't say i was having more fun with more of those RPG elements still in the mix.

SO im all for the streamline approach. I really am, less inventory management and stat tracking is definitely what i've grown more accustom to.

Should ME3 story be completely generic and characters be without any depth but the game is a fantastic cover based shooter, then i have a reason to be pissed. But until then i'll keep my hopes that the story will still shine through regardless of the game play mechanics :P

The minute you used the word "betrayed" I knew you'd jumped aboard the train to crazy fanboy town. How can I talk you down? I can't. You'll just have to keep rambling about your paranoid, unsubstantiated misinterpretations of bioware's statements until you work yourself into a self-entitled berserker frenzy and spend a year planning to hate a game you haven't even seen yet. Yes that seems perfectly reasonable doesn't it?

I wish I could be more pragmatic about it but I'm sick of melodramatic mouthpieces like you who have some mythical preconception of what an RPG has to be and define every attempt at innovation or cross pollination with words like "betrayal" and "abandonment". You can either learn to adapt with the times or you can hitch your pants up to your chest and mutter about the "damn kids" and how the world's going to hell in a handbasket. It seems you've chosen your strategy.

I for one can't wait to see you bust out a chalkboard and walk us through your best Glenn Beck impersonation: "Shepard, let's take the letters in Shepard and find out what they stand for... Shooter!... Hates, ... Every... Previous... Archetypal... Roleplaying ... Demographic!" If you were "loyal" enough to be "abandoned" then you'd probably place more faith in the developer. If you're expecting to be betrayed and you're hoping that jumping ship first will soften the blow then allow me to say this to ease your mind: "This will be a good game. Even if it's not everything you want it to be, few things in life are, and you will probably be happier you played it than not." As for your concerns, the conversations and combat are pretty much two separate systems. There's no contradiction in terms to say both are being improved.

It was a fantastic ass though wasn't it?

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