Extra Punctuation: Action Is Not Finisher Porn

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 NEXT
 

Realitycrash:

Or look at Batman: Arkham Asylum, it's got one of the best fighting engines I've ever seen in a game and it doesn't really do elaborate finishers at all, it just flows incredibly well. Punch flows to kick flows to counter flows back to punch.

Fuck..Yeah. That game truly had flow, and all it required was "Tilt analogue-stick in direction of asskickery, press X to kick ass, press Y to wtfpwn, then X to kick ass again".
Never seen a game that let you do so many different things with just two buttons, and never, ever broke flow. God how I loved to jump into a fight with ten different thugs and just see how long I could keep my combos up. You really felt like Batman when you managed to take them all down, no hits taken.

Agreed. And it never got old either, probably because large enemy groups were few and far between. I still remember the big grin crawling into my face whenever I spotted such a group :D

Ah man. I cant wait for Arkham City.

I enjoyed the broth metaphor as much as Yahtzee. Nicely done. Hell, the whole thing was spot on and hilarious, with salient points, as well. Arkham Asylum had amazing flow. Never have been a huge fan of MK, for the gore reason, but this review has me even less inclined to even try it (as I have in the past).

Speaking of porn, those attacks are even called "climax" in bayonetta.

But...they're optional.

You don't have to use x-ray attacks, you can still win without them. They also provide an opportunity to take a quick breather and think of your next attack.

Also fatalities are also optional finishers, if you don't want to use them then don't, just smack your opponent and you're done.

Mangue Surfer:

Fullmetalfox:
Capcom got it right. Ultra moves in SSFIV are 3 or 4 seconds long. That's enough time to make a spectacle without breaking the action flow.

The X-ray last about 4 seconds. The longest 6. The second Ryu ultra take 6 seconds (I'm not a crazy guy with an chronometer, I see this things on the youtube, if you wanna know). In fact, the close up "fist met chin" in this ultra it's an obvious inspiration to the MK X-Ray moves. Borderline, X-Ray are ultra movies with dark humor.

WoW! you are right! I just checked youtube and Ryu's ultra is 6 seconds long! I've done it hundreds of times and it never felt that long. Anyway, I haven't played the new MK yet so I dunno how long most of them are but Yahtzee makes it sound like they take an eternity. The ones I saw on youtube where 3 to 5 secs long, that's not too bad. I think he just finds it annoying because he doesn't like fighting games.

VATS in Fallout 3 gets really old really fast tough.

finishing movies via QTE that lead to annoying unskippable cut-scenes that are repeated 50+ times throughout the game make me angry!

And you wouldn't like me when I'm angry!

These little finishing moves provide a valuable break in the action. In God of War, they have tactical relevance too, as you gain a brief moment of invulnerability for pulling one off.

Granted, after the hundredth time, you are ready to stop jamming your blade down a minotaur's throat and just stab him somewhere else and be done with it - but this is simply an issue of having too few animations, not an indictment of the concept.

a point of note, the GOW finishers are a god send when doing them challenge levels or when you are low health. As doing them makes you invincible and grants a reprieve from certain death by mobbing. So call it what you will, i've always saw then as a good way to take a breather and nothing more.

MK9 is a pretty sad game in that i've watched a lot of competitive fighting games and this is the one new game that i'm still pretty damn bored watching. most of the pro players don't even bother with fatalities when they win. Sets can go on without ever seeing an X-ray move.

I'm still more willing to watch SSF4 than MK9 :(

surprised Yahtzee didn't mention MVC3 as that whole game is finisher porn, every move is flashy and the supers are all flashy!

Katana314:

Who's waiting for them to get up? If they're standing, press X and Batman leaps over to him. If they're on the ground, about to get up, do a leaping finisher. If they're on the ground but a thug is preventing you from hitting him, take care of that thug first.

Give me any individual frame of action in the middle of a combo in that game, and I can tell you what attack to use next from there without breaking it.

Fuckin A. That game was unbelievably solid. If the combat ended before everyone with 15 feet of you was bloodied and pulped on the floor, then you weren't equipped enough or did it wrong. Thats actually a fact.

And it achieved this with only 1 attack button, 1 counter button and Batmans sweet ass gadgets. Screw it, when I get a new xbox, I'm getting AA again. Playing that game on hard and savaging a dozen armed thugs in a perfect combo... Nothing beats that.

Just finished re-playing Batman Arkham Asylum and I hadn't appreciated the first time I'd played the game how incredibly good and fun the hand-to-hand combat was; it just flows perfectly (if you're button pressing is perfect that is) and taking out a group of thugs in one swift and flowing combo with no misses is very satisfying.

blindthrall:

UltimatheChosen:
In my opinion, Fable 2 and Fallout 3 are guilty of this, as well. The VATS kill-cam in FO3 is particularly annoying.

I was thinking that. At least in New Vegas you can turn the kill-cam off. And VATS is optional, I really only use it when I'm low on ammo or getting my ass handed to me(you take less damage while vats is playing out).

See I was the opposite. I always used VATS and would very rarely actually shoot.

Personally its just a catchy way to draw people in to a long drawn out series before they decide to bring in another franchise to beat eachother up etc. its an interesting mechanic but when you continually see it... isnt it a bit disturbing that you would get used to the fact that it be becomes boring, if not normal? becoming de-sensitized to it? just a thought.

I wish I could remember which game this was; maybe I dreamed it? But in this game, as you advanced in level you would gain abilities, many of which would have a finishing move if you happened to kill an enemy with it. The higher level you were, the cooler these moves would be. The best thing was, though, the first time you did it, it slowed down and centered and focused on what you'd done, but every other time you did it, it was just part of the flow of the game.

Drew Linsley:
Personally its just a catchy way to draw people in to a long drawn out series before they decide to bring in another franchise to beat eachother up etc. its an interesting mechanic but when you continually see it... isnt it a bit disturbing that you would get used to the fact that it be becomes boring, if not normal? becoming de-sensitized to it? just a thought.

Dude, in my point of view, there's nothing to sensitize in the first place. The gore is so over the top is so impossible to take it seriously. It's Bugs Bunny level of violence. I grew watching the Woody Woodpecker show reruns and I thinking this is more disturbed than MK9. Maybe this is the real problem, Bugs Bunny, Tom and Jerry and Woody Woodpecker de-sensitized generations. But now this is about to end with Twilight and with its vampires that avoid drink blood philosophy.

Thats a very valid point im not proud of many things going on in todays media market. some days i wish i was born a bit earlier. and yeah i love all of the classic violence, but that wasnt gore in truth. I guess my view of the the "gore" in MK is that its un-necessary and its just another gimmick as my main point.

Moffman:
I'd say Ninja Gaiden II also has a very good fast paced combat, sure it's hard as hell but the system is very fast paced because the finishing moves happen in a flash, nice and quick, you know, like a ninja should be... I guess it gets its porn aspects in in other ways though :P

This goes for all of the Ninja Gaidens that I've played. I'm fine with taking two seconds to let Ryu finish someone off because he doesn't waffle about or ask me to rapidly press A while he's doing it. Also, those brief moments of invulnerability were just about the only pause you got in that game.

Jamienra:
As for Batman: AA having no finishers. The most annoying thing about it was waiting for a thug to stand up or walk over and slowly punch him in the face while other thugs waited around you.

This was an issue in Assassin's Creed, especially the first one, but I never really found it to be an issue in Batman. He can cover a lot of ground between moves, so I generally found that if someone was on the ground I could jump to them and do the takedown before they got back up.

I don't get it, most of the ultras/supers in SSFIV are about the same length (look at Zangief or Hakan), yet MK gets dumped on for having "long" X-rays that are 100% optional? And also incredibly tactically useful? Yeah, they're a little long, but is it really THAT different?

To be fair, none of these games require you to use fancy finishing moves.

In MK for example, you can use your accumulated energy to launch several enhanced special attacks, or break an opponents combo. Either way the X-ray moves should definitely take longer to charge and be more difficult to pull off, at least this way players wouldn't be seeing the same overlong animation two or three times per fight.

Finishing moves in GOW style games are a much bigger problem, If you don't execute them, you are often missing out on things like health and experience.

I'd agree, except I really liked the finishers in Bayonetta, I thought they fit really well. Like has been mentioned, they give a break in an otherwise unrelentingly frantic game, like a smart bomb would in a space shooter.
Plus, they built to a head in every level, culminating with a huge demon summon which ate, punched, ate or played volleyball with the level boss. Then it happened again at the end, which was really cool.

I agree with you on this one for sure, but fighting games have never been my thing. Now that I think about there are other games that do this sort of thing in one way or another, gameplay should not be of the 'rinse and repeat' type. It's like the game is your mom taping you on the should to remind you that your still just playing a game and NOT having the epic adventure of your life!

Speaking of intervening........ I always wondered why didn't the good guys from DBZ just break the bad guy's neck while he was transforming instead of waiting for him to complete and be even more powerful.

i think one where the finisher was really good was the assassin's creed series. it let you finish an enemy that would have taken several more hits to kill, and it was done by either overpowering the guy til you got the opportunity, or by successfully countering.

maybe that's not a good "finisher" though, cause i had the habit of opening with that, and had a particularly fun time seeing how many i could kill before they raise their guard. i found it hilarious when i killed like 7-8 and avoided a fight completely in ass creed 2(early in the game too). they let the AI slip a bit. in the first one, you could get off 3-4 max before they guarded, and the hidden blade couldn't be used offensively at all (i like it though. i consider the sword an option now instead of a requirement)

for god of war im torn. its finishers do get annoying, but its the only way to get minotaurs and gorgons to drop health and mana. i actually prefer the enemies with the finishers, because its a way to get them out of the way instead of having to pummel each and every one to 0 life.

This is why I'm really getting into fighting games like Overgrowth or ZenoClash. Sure one isn't anywhere near done and the other is a little unpolished (and downright weird, but that's half the charm right?) but they keep the action flowing. Plus you spend more time deciding what to do in an ever changing tactical situation instead of how to do a specific five button combo or a 3 button combo repeated over and over again until you win (Hadoken!).

The finishers act as a breather to the gameplay loop, so you can then re-assess the combat situation and repeat. Seems like Ben is not against their idea, just their duration.

I agree on the duration being short, but I also appreciate when developers bother putting enough different animations that they hardly repeat. Making them hard to do, like having a close-quarters finisher in a FPS (The Darkness) where you can be fired upon if you're too close, is a smart idea.

Fullmetalfox:

WoW! you are right! I just checked youtube and Ryu's ultra is 6 seconds long! I've done it hundreds of times and it never felt that long. Anyway, I haven't played the new MK yet so I dunno how long most of them are but Yahtzee makes it sound like they take an eternity. The ones I saw on youtube where 3 to 5 secs long, that's not too bad. I think he just finds it annoying because he doesn't like fighting games.

VATS in Fallout 3 gets really old really fast tough.

Honestly they go by really fast. The average X-Ray takes about as long as the same amount of hits would.

I've never seen a fight go longer because I used them.

It's just not a game that was marketed towards him. I'm sure someone will make a fluid fighting game, then people will abuse the mechanics and the game will die. But at least it'll have been done?

(Soul Calibur can kind of do it, fun to watch a buddy play nightmare and take you from 100% to 0% life before his combo is over, unless you know the super awesome counter combos...)

ChillShark:
Speaking of intervening........ I always wondered why didn't the good guys from DBZ just break the bad guy's neck while he was transforming instead of waiting for him to complete and be even more powerful.

The vast majority of the fighters were curious of just whether or not they could actually defeat their opponent.

Effectively it was many seasons of the saying "Curiosity killed the Cat". This is also why MOST of the time they person waiting is watching on with some level of awe.

Most finishers like those in Bayonette are used as visual rewards. It is true that they could mix up more often, but doing animations like that take a lot of time. I don't think the torture attacks take long enough to get boring, though. Plus you are at least actively doing something, unlike MK's X-ray moves.

Still, many times these moves are used as breathing room, typically with a bit of invulnerability to just kick back and watch something cool. Action Fatigue is a thing!

I get what Yahtzee's trying to say here, but i wouldn't have used Arkham Asylum as an example. Arkham has several instances where the camera slows down while Batman deals the finishing blow to a bunch of bad guys. It's usually not too annoying, but there are lots of instances where I beat the last guy in the room by grabbing him with a silent takedown attack, and the camera slows down to show Batman.....slowly smother a guy and then set him quietly down on the ground for sleepytime.

My exact thoughts when I played MK for the first time. I remember I yelled "OW! Right in the suckerbag!" the first time I saw a Finisher move. I also twitched a little whenever I saw an X Ray move. But after playing a couple of hours, I'd just say "Oh, man..." or "Huh." or just stare. It certainly lost its touch after a while. Perhaps if the new MK was strictly an arcade game, where you have to waste a couple of dollars to make it all the way to the end, then yeah. It might remain flashy for a while. But when you won the game and you're able to play it as many times as you want, then...no. Repetition is not good.

Now, it's not like I'm in love with MvC. Heck, I haven't played it in a while. But the action is fast paced! You cannot look away for a minute or else you might die. MK, though, will let you take your eyes off the screen for a second.
As a side note, this is why I don't like MOST 3D fighting games like MK. When you focus on making the characters look realistic, they cannot move as fast as, let's say, MvC, where in 5 seconds, your character can extend his arms and launch some attack, then come flying down and kick you, then summon a friend and punch you, then do a combo, then appear behind you and kill you. All in 5 seconds. With MK, it's quite easy to break an attack because you can actually see the character beginning to do that attack. Yeah, you have around a second to react but still.

For games like MK or GoW (A game that I really like), I WOULD like to see the finisher moves being saved only for boss fights. For example, allow me to kill Hades as flashy as it is. I don't need to kill its minions the same gory way over and over and over and over again. At the end, I usually just try to hit them until I see the finisher move cause I'm lazy. But if you see those finisher moves less often, they'll be more flashy later, obviously.

But alas, gore and sex sells. Those two can make up for a mediocre games.
I'm looking at you, Bayonetta.

Fullmetalfox:
VATS in Fallout 3 gets really old really fast tough.

What! Blowing up the cranium of a mutant never gets old!

ouch111:

Fullmetalfox:
VATS in Fallout 3 gets really old really fast tough.

What! Blowing up the cranium of a mutant never gets old!

You are right, blowing up the cranium of a mutant never gets old, but watching the computer do it for you every time does.

Wait... too many whats spoiling the what-now O.o!!?
...oh. Well, this is Embarrassing. I accidentally read cooks minus one "o" ...and with an extra "c"

-_-'

I'll just chock this one up to sleep deprivation and never speak of it again... deal?

OT: Another game which is plagued by the same problem Yahtzee is beating on here but which was not mentioned is Fable 3; where practically every "flourish" finishing move plays like a slow-motion money$hot :| ...though I noticed it tends to stop after they've played the same sequence over seven times or so and just plays it real-time without any camera-angles.
Soo, I guess kudos for Lionhead studios o.O?

I decided not to buy this game pretty much right after I saw a video of all of the big finishing moves? Why? Because that's pretty much the only reason to pick up these games, which made me realize that's not much of an experience. Plus, having seen them once that was more than enough. The reason why a brutal moment is good in a film is because there's generally a build up to it and (most importantly) it happens once in the film. If a game is built up around these "shocking" moves that happen again and again and again then they become not shocking by default.

To be honest, I hate it when I lose control of my character in mid combat. These finishers don't bother me as long as the other enemies can't attack me. Or if they can and I can cancel the attack. But what bothers me even more about video games are the mid-combat cutscenes. Nothing pisses me off more than cutscene of some new enemy appearing while I was trying to do something precise, like just about to shoot someones head with sniper. Or in Uncharted 2, when I was trying to fight off squad of soldiers, while hiding in the train-wreck and this cutscene (about 2 guys with miniguns) in middle of me trying to roll away from sniper aim starts. Drake ofcourse had jumped OUTSIDE the train while the cutscene was playing. >.<

I have to agree with Yahtzee here, atleast as far as them stopping the flow of combat goes. If they are going to use finishers, make them faster and more efficent or let players cancel them if things get hairy.

Well, on Quick Finishers the Assassin's Creed games usually had finishing moves/counter kills that don't last too long. Mostly it's just stabbing a mook in the vitals or a fancy cut. In Brotherhood, Ezio can move from mook to mook doing really quick finishing moves.

I don't have much problems with Finishers but I guess I'd rather them be quick and brutal rather than overelaborate (though as boss finishers they can be satisfying).

It never gets old with friends... just saying. It's like playing street fighter with a mate and hitting your ultra combo. Bit biased, but I never get sick of seeing Zangief do his ultimate atomic buster on one of my hapless chums.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here