Jimquisition: Defending Call of Duty

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Frozen Donkey Wheel2:

subtlefuge:
People went back and captured Osama? That's news.

....Not really, it happened several weeks ago. Also, "killed", not "captured".

But Jim said captured like 5 times. I trust him implicitly.

Can't keep it up. You really thought I was being serious. Really?

Scrumpmonkey:
Look, im not going to go into how you did the exact same thing because i misspelled something thus trolling for no real reason. Being hostile over spelling is just silly. I would respond to your points but... you didn't really make any.

My point is that jim seems desperate for attention in his videos, he is trolling the community here rather than adding anything useful. Kind of like you.

>he is trolling the community here rather than adding anything useful

So making sensible statement doesn't add anything useful and is trolling? Good to know.

>Being hostile over spelling is just silly.

No it's not. If you don't bother to check over your post to see if everything's green, then you clearly don't care about what you're posting.

>trolling

You keep using that word. I do not think you know what it means.

AceAngel:
I hope many people who are saying "He tries too hard" do realize his way of speaking, heaving breathing, and sporadic panting are because he is overweight, right?

When I was kid, and chubby, I had a hard time breathing easily during long conversations and such, let alone wear any Tuxedo or even try to act infront of an audience, so please people, use your head for a moment or two.

...What the fuck?

I really enjoyed this episode, Jim! At first I was skeptical of your show, but after these last 2 episodes I've become a fan. Well done!

Jim, seriosly? Did i just hear the word's "depth" and "Call of duty" in one sentence? And it's easy to pop in a scene from the most overtalked game in the history of man to counter it (tho i like, and respect the series, was a fanboy myself once).

Modern Warfare 4 was a revolution. Ive played it no more then 24 hours but ive got the point of it. It was good.

I totaly respect the fact that u like the game and enjoy it. It's a thing of taste, I myself am playing Battlefields, and I'm waiting for BF3 to come out. But seriously? Depth? Modern Warfare 2 had depth? Just becouse some brit was shot in the face in slo-motion dosent make it depth, im sorry. Not only that u dont even say what the depth is.

Black Ops was terrible, no denying it. Im talking from a PC point of view when i couldnt play Blops for two weeks becouse it was sluttering like hell. The single player? Let my qoute myself from my Steam profile:

"Feels more like an expansion pack to Call of Duty 4. Single Player is a standard, linear, borring shoot-out, multiplayer is the same thing over, over, and over again. Not worth its price, buy it when its 50% cheaper or at some deal. They are way better FPS's on the market, stick to them. This? Waste of money."

Not much to add. All ive heard was:

"Cod isnt played only by kiddies, i play it aswell! And the game is FOKIN deep!"

But its cool, enjoy what u like. Hope to god nobody comes over and says that Minecraft has an awesome plot. And depth.

The only problem I have with CoD is the way girls try to get boys attention by saying "ooh look at me I'm a girl and I play CoD aren't I a desirrable mate?", thinking that CoD is the only game in existence. Not the fault of the game, stupid people are gonna be stupid.

I also thought Blops had a mediocre campaign, not on the level of Cod 4 or even MW2.

For more discussion on Jim Sterling I invite you all to this thread:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.286381-Outrageous-The-Witcher-2-review-by-Jim-Sterling

AceAngel:
I hope many people who are saying "He tries too hard" do realize his way of speaking, heaving breathing, and sporadic panting are because he is overweight, right?

When I was kid, and chubby, I had a hard time breathing easily during long conversations and such, let alone wear any Tuxedo or even try to act infront of an audience, so please people, use your head for a moment or two.

I think sitting down in a comfortable chair with comfortable clothes would help with that. The parts where he is standing up in a suit would exhaust any normal person.

Really enjoyed this episode. The series is really finding it's footing now. I like Jim's attitude in this piece. I'm mostly the same- popular or not I like the games I like and I don't give a shit about elitism in either camp. Sure I like to play a bit of Limbo or Galactic Civ but sometimes I just want to have fun and I'll pull out GTA or FIFA.

As far as the CoD series goes, I'm not much of an online player so I never got more than halfway to prestige in any title. That said, aside from 3 and MW2, I've always had a very entertaining and engaging experience in the single player campaigns.

Jim is a good counterpoint to this website, I mean with the cult like following of Extra Credits here I think people just dont like being told anything different. Personally I find Jim and movie bob better then extra Credits because at least you know their saying an oppinion, while extra credits is very preachy and acts as if everything they say is fact, also they tend to over romantacize games as something greater then they are.

Kukulski:
For more discussion on Jim Sterling I invite you all to this thread:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.286381-Outrageous-The-Witcher-2-review-by-Jim-Sterling

Wow... people are actually capable of doing things like this? I mean, I can troll too, but everything has limits. This makes him look like a "CoD kiddie" (please do note I am not directly calling Jim Sterling that, only that people may see him like that)

I do enjoy your arguments for why CoD is a good series, as they are much more intelligently thought out than most. That being said, I have a completely different opinion on the series.
A few points in no real order...
1. I started playing CoD during World at War, but didn't buy a CoD game until MW2.
2. I thoroughly enjoyed the single player storyline to MW2.
3. I played the multiplayer for quite a long while, but very soon got bored of it.
4. I feel CoD 4: Modern Warfare was an extremely important title which helped online FPS games attain their level of fun online through the console matchmaking services.

Now, I have started having problems with CoD, not just for its player base online, but for its lack of creativity. They have pretty much put out the same game 4 years in a row, making HUGE amounts of money with each consecutive release, and with each release falling shorter than the last. Blizzard makes even larger amounts of money, but they continue to innovate and ensure that releases such as Starcraft II (and eventually) Diablo 3 will be quality releases. Now, the producers of each CoD game did have some kind of creativity for creating different game modes, including the very entertaining Nazi Zombies minigame, but if you look at the competition, CoD really isn't that great (especially after BlOps).
Look at Battlefield BC2. In multiplayer, the maps were larger, almost all the buildings were fully destructible, vehicles were present, yet balanced, more players could join each game, and yet lag was kept much lower than my experiences with CoD. Yet, Black Ops somehow sold more and is much more popular than Battlefield BC2. This makes very little sense, especially due to the backlash the community gave about MW2. Now, the entire Bad Company spinoff was just a side project, used to test the destruction engine and Battlefield's ability to play on console and with matchmaking services, while the real Battlefield 3 was being made.
Boy, if BF3 fails out due to MW3, I will be quite annoyed. Just remember, I don't think CoD sucks or is even bad, but it's just not great. Especially recently.
That is all.

Jim I know you're trying to be funny but seriously you're not likeable enough to be that smug.

Anyway I too am sick of all this shit against COD players. My roommates played COD all the time and yet one of them still got all the latest big release games no matter what the genre.

Also sick of popular things aren't cool and that a true gamer only likes underground/less mainstream stuff. Anyway who thinks mindlessly bashing whatever popular instantly makes them cool can get smacked in the face for all I care.

As for the games I think they're too complex for newcomers (and a bit unfair when the other guys have custom classes and you have to stick to default) and they feel like Skinner Boxes. Although it is fun watching my roommates play Nazi zombies.

And you're right it is a better system than memorizing where all the good weapons are.

Probably the most intelligent argument Ive heard you do so far in this series.

LightspeedJack:
The only problem I have with CoD is the way girls try to get boys attention by saying "ooh look at me I'm a girl and I play CoD aren't I a desirrable mate?", thinking that CoD is the only game in existence. Not the fault of the game, stupid people are gonna be stupid.

I also thought Blops had a mediocre campaign, not on the level of Cod 4 or even MW2.

To be totally fair to those girls, if they could beat me in any FPS or fighting game (Which includes CoD), I would definitely go out with them.

I'm like that one woman in mythology who would marry whomever beat her in a race. ALL IT TAKES TO WIN MY UNDYING LOVE IS TO DEFEAT ME IN VIDEO GAMES!

OT: Yeah, the hating things that are popular for no reason other than they're popular is bothersome. I'm not a CoD fan, but I don't feel the need to run around screaming, "LOLNUBSLRN2PLYRELGAM"

I just watched my brother play Call of Duty yesterday. And despite everything i heard, it looked... fun! The online multiplayer made me think of paintball. One hit kills, you're allowed to try again, you hunt down other players while also trying to hide from them. Despite being "brown and grey" and despite all the copy cats out there, Call of Duty looks okay. Or at least the multiplayer. I haven't seen anything else.

go pepperjack

diebane:
I agree with you, Jim, except for one statement:

I dislike the advantages (more perks, weapons, etc.) an experienced player has. You covered this in the video and stated that it was not any different than an experienced player in i.e. Quake. I disagree.

A player (let's call him Dave) that gets wrecked in Quake because of him not knowing where the weapons are is going to want to change that by, for example, looking it up on the internet. If Dave still gets wrecked after that, it is the experience of the better player that gives him the advantage over Dave.

If Dave played Call of Duty, weapon spawn locations don't matter too much (except for some FFA gametypes). Of course, Dave gets wrecked. But this time he can't do anything about that because the advantages of the other players are not (only) based on knowledge (weapon spawns) and game experience, but gametime, too. Sure, if Dave is bad at FPSs he gets wrecked no matter what, but Perks/Weapons/Killstreaks are something that he can't do anything about even if he is decent at gaming.

However, in a game like Cod where in every game so far you've been able to spawn with a rocket/grenade launcher/grenades/shotgun. All of these kill in a single hit most of the time. This has a wonderful habit of balancing out gameplay. At level one I was still in the top 3 of my team.

Mr. Omega:
You're defending CoD on the Escapist, one of the most sequel-phobic, anti-mainstream, "popular is bad (Unless it's Valve)", indie-snobby sites on the internet... that takes balls.

Anyway, the defenses have been pretty good. It's not the best defense, but it's good. And I do not like the whole "CoD players are dicks" mentalities.

Sequel phobic? A discussion on what series/games need sequels tends to show up quite a bit here.

tomany2:
Unfortunatly, Call Of Duty didn't start the "Unlocks with levels", that would be battlefield 2's doing. So i guess you could call Activision the copy cats.

that seriously goes back to WAY before Battlefield 2.

I mean, how could anyone possibly think otherwise? Its been around in one form or another since multiplayer games were created, its just that the industry took a turn for a while that favoured the quake style of MP.

Battlefield 2 was no more original than CoD4.

I personally loved Call of Duty 2 and the first Modern Warfare game. My personal dislike of the series came with MW2. As I havn't played Black Ops I can't comment on that.
There were serious balance issues that persist throughout the online component of the game such as akimbo and the ever present noob-tube.
I've always wondered why they changed the way the MP was in COD 2. Pre selected weapons, reselectable after a death but with no perks or streaks made for a more balanced game in my opinion with a higher emphasis placed on pure skill as every weapon was viable. I also found the Death Streaks and over the top kill streaks introduced in MW2 were just sillly.
I also felt the game play became far more scripted. Enviorments seemed to became smaller with the option of diffrent paths being limited especially in comparision to COD 2 My personal favourite.
I found the story sub-par in comparision to Modern Warfare. I also agree with one of the complaints leveled at the game a lot which is an overdoing of the cool or more dramatic pieces from Modern Warfare.
So to conclude the wall of text, I don't hate COD because of popularity. I hate it because of I was unhappy with what I felt was a serious change in direction for the series.

Scrumpmonkey:

Call of Duty was a great series, Call of Duty 4 was one of the best shooters arround at the time. People dislike Call of Duty, not becuase it's popular but because it's not been very good post CoD4.

Quoted for truth, although I personally thought the series from the beginning wasn't very good.

My issue is mainly with the small percentage of CoD players who migrate to the next new MP shooter, fail to grasp different gameplay, then call it crap for not being like CoD. Brink is a perfect example, I'm sick of people whining about how the other team is stomping us when they're not buffing or playing their class. That and medic snipers who don't revive.

This video completely ignores the fact that the most important part of video games and call of duty is the the player interaction and gameplay, which is nothing but an expertly crafted military people-killing simulation, hidden behind the guise of "videogamey" rewards systems and the controller.

There is less and less credence being giving to the idea that maybe killing people in video games has hit a juvenile and sadistic point, now that millions of dollars and years of work are being poured into these projects and millions of people compulsively play them each and every day.

This was fine back in the days of the arcade, but now that we can do better with realism in the simulation, why aren't designers and players craving the true harrowing and emotional result of killing someone in addition to the thrill of competition? The fact that this argument is struggling at all makes me fear not only for the large scale state of the game industry, but humanity's (especially those loud-mouthed teens mentioned in the video) increased desensitization in conjunction with a lack of desire for truly enriching entertainment.

Mantonio:

Also, Jim, have I mentioned that with that outfit and flag behind you, you remind me of Norsefire from V for Vendetta?

That has gone through my head since episode 1.

Like, seriously. I expect V to cut in at any time.

subtlefuge:

Frozen Donkey Wheel2:

subtlefuge:
People went back and captured Osama? That's news.

....Not really, it happened several weeks ago. Also, "killed", not "captured".

But Jim said captured like 5 times. I trust him implicitly.

Can't keep it up. You really thought I was being serious. Really?

Ah. That one's on me, your comedic genius went right over my head, sorry.

Whoops, my "Sarcastic Asshole" mode was turned on. Let me fix it.

THERE. I apologize, my good man, for the terrible misunderstanding. You see, in the instance of communication over the internet, we must rely on mere text to convey our ideas and points, without the luxuries of verbal and body language with which face-to-face communication rewards us. This provides the unfortunate side effect of making sarcasm particularly challenging to detect, which is why I thought you were being serious with your statement concerning certain Middle-Eastern former fugitives. Again, I offer my sincerest apologies any offense this may have caused.

And "Sarcastic Asshole" mode is back...ON...There we go.

Man, these things are great. You might have yours look at, though. I think it's stuck or something.

SlugLady28:
I just watched my brother play Call of Duty yesterday. And despite everything i heard, it looked... fun! The online multiplayer made me think of paintball. One hit kills, you're allowed to try again, you hunt down other players while also trying to hide from them. Despite being "brown and grey" and despite all the copy cats out there, Call of Duty looks okay. Or at least the multiplayer. I haven't seen anything else.

I got into CoD4, because we were at a house party at my cousins, and her kid was playing his copy. It looked like fun, I pick a copy up, and it was, for a few months.

The problem isn't that modern shooters aren't fun, it's that you get a phenomenal feeling of deja vu every time you play one. The genre needs a colossal kick up the arse, and I'm talking more than " oh look, the antagonists are more/less Russian/Arabic than the last game..."

I didn't agree with every point you made Jim but I watched this entire episode with a smile on my face, this is by far the best episode you've done! This time, the humour seems roughly balanced, what you were saying makes sense and is for the most is TRUE!!! Also, the lack of swearing and silly MS paint pictures was a big plus.

Verdict: This show gets better with each episode, keep it up!

I've tried to like it a few times, and it isn't happening.

The offline campaigns / single player are hoot simply for how "WTF" they tend to be. But the maps have felt awfully basic compared to other FPS.

I dislike xp, perks and all that crap. Good for those that like it, sure, but I'll pass. While I don't favor the Quake / UT1 era of weapon pickup, the concept evolved a bit and developers got better at it. - Also, I can do a quick youtube search or an offline match to find the layout of the map and weapons. - In XP games, I'm forced to just kind of suck until i can 'level up' and get better guns & perks. Very annoying.

Maybe it's different in the UK, but but over here quite a few youngsters flock to CoD. I've seen children in the 9-10'ish range beg and scream at their Mothers for it. I can't say its the majority, but most open / random matches I went tend to remind me of that.

tl;dr

Not liking CoD doesn't mean your some asshat trying to win points just by not liking CoD. There's a pretty good game in there somewhere, but its also surrounded by a lot of dicking, and some folks just don't like being dicked by a piece of entertainment software.

This has made me really wanna play CoD. Never thought it would happen. I want that post nuke scene

dogstile:

diebane:
I agree with you, Jim, except for one statement:

I dislike the advantages (more perks, weapons, etc.) an experienced player has. You covered this in the video and stated that it was not any different than an experienced player in i.e. Quake. I disagree.

A player (let's call him Dave) that gets wrecked in Quake because of him not knowing where the weapons are is going to want to change that by, for example, looking it up on the internet. If Dave still gets wrecked after that, it is the experience of the better player that gives him the advantage over Dave.

If Dave played Call of Duty, weapon spawn locations don't matter too much (except for some FFA gametypes). Of course, Dave gets wrecked. But this time he can't do anything about that because the advantages of the other players are not (only) based on knowledge (weapon spawns) and game experience, but gametime, too. Sure, if Dave is bad at FPSs he gets wrecked no matter what, but Perks/Weapons/Killstreaks are something that he can't do anything about even if he is decent at gaming.

However, in a game like Cod where in every game so far you've been able to spawn with a rocket/grenade launcher/grenades/shotgun. All of these kill in a single hit most of the time. This has a wonderful habit of balancing out gameplay. At level one I was still in the top 3 of my team.

Ok, you got a point there. Besides, those unlockables sure encourage the player to keep going, a great motivation if you think about it.

mfG diebane

WaaghPowa:

Scrumpmonkey:

Call of Duty was a great series, Call of Duty 4 was one of the best shooters arround at the time. People dislike Call of Duty, not becuase it's popular but because it's not been very good post CoD4.

Quoted for truth, although I personally thought the series from the beginning wasn't very good.

My issue is mainly with the small percentage of CoD players who migrate to the next new MP shooter, fail to grasp different gameplay, then call it crap for not being like CoD. Brink is a perfect example, I'm sick of people whining about how the other team is stomping us when they're not buffing or playing their class. That and medic snipers who don't revive.

I agree on that front. The Community of Call of Duty is not the best in the world to say the least. The problem is that this is the first contact with shooters many have, thus making then think 1. that acting like a barely sentient ass-monkey is the right way to behave on line and 2. That all FPS games should be played like Call of Duty and 3. That team-work is never needed or evem desireable.

I would do a deconstruction of the problems with CoD as a game, with CoD as a movement and with CoD as a business model but frankly Jim's F-list trolling rutine is not worth the rise. Many good people have said hundreds of valid things about WHY the call of duty series is distasteful to them, both in terms of the game its self and the circumstances and community surronding the game.

Being popular doesn't necessarily make something bad, but it certainly is a strong indicator.

If something has reached the level of generic-ness and mass appeal required to become the top seller in a medium, that often means it doesn't speak strongly enough to someone for it to be the best or most meaningful experience for a specific group or person.

For instance, imagine having to order a single pizza to share with 8 people. Some people like anchovies, some people like peppers, etc. But for a pizza to appeal to everyone it might have to be just cheese, because every person has their own specific tastes that come into conflict with each other. But just because they are all willing to eat that cheese pizza doesn't make it the 'best' pizza, just the one that has the common denominator between all of the people.

In fact I love food analogies when it comes to popularity and the quality of the product. You may find people who will argue until the end of time that Justin Bieber is the height of artistic meaning and achievement in music, but few will say that McDonalds sells the most hamburgers because they are made of top quality ingredients.

GundamSentinel:
People will always be hating on what's popular, because that's what the 'cool kids' do

I hate when people put on that whole 'people hate what's popular because it's cool' nonsense. It's not cool to be critical of what's popular. What's cool is to like the same thing everyone else likes, to be in with the popular crowd.

Having standards is the loneliest thing a person can do, and it's practically never out of choice. I would love to think that the media which surrounds me is truly meaningful and entertaining. I wish I could go back to only listening to songs on the radio, only watching big dumb blockbuster flicks, and only playing the games everyone else around me plays, but once I saw that there was more to life than what was placed directly in front of my nose it became impossible to go back.

I wish more people were critical, and more willing to admit the faults even in things they enjoy. But instead we have a strange kind of world where it seems like you either love something to the point of ignorance and blindness of any even somewhat critical views of it, or you're a hater who just disses the things people likes to be 'cool'. When really it's far more likely that neither of these things are true, and people just have a really hard time truly expressing their feelings and views on things in general.

I could ramble forever, and I tend to have my point missed completely no matter how much I type... so I'll just stop now.

I hope they get rid of this terrible show soon. Seriously, it's like he can't figure out if he wants to be more like Yahtzee, MovieBob, or an angsty 12 year old, so he tries too hard to be all 3.

CoD exists, love it or hate it. Cast opinions across the internet at people about it.

Just remember, no-one puts a gun to your head to play it and above all things it's just a game, something you play to enjoy and experience.

It's fun, challenging and refining your game-play and MP create a class is something a perfectionist like me enjoys to no end.

I just think they should bolster the SP for MW3. I think if you make the SP more engaging, more players would look favourably on it. Rather than burning through or plain disregarding it in favour of the MP.

One question I have is, if more people dislike CoD because of the SP and how many for the MP and would improvement in those areas, make them look more favourably on the series?

Scrumpmonkey:

Mr. Omega:
You're defending CoD on the Escapist, one of the most sequel-phobic, anti-mainstream, "popular is bad (Unless it's Valve)", indie-snobby sites on the internet... that takes balls.

Or maybe jim is doing what he always does and is being a despirate troll.

Exactly. Also way to be a complete and total asshole (Not you but Jim) and insult soldiers everywhere and what they fight for.

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