The Big Picture: Going Green: Part I

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This gets all confusing when DC introduced yet another Green Laturn in the Justice League cartoons...

I admit that I didn't read that many comics during the 90s, the only ones I read were the JLA comics I got out of my local library. Hence, I was more familiar with Kyle Rayner than Hal Jordan.

But of course, some people couldn't take it, and went to extreme lengths just to get the old Green Lantern back.

(Hell wrath no fury like a fanboy scorned, I suppose...)

That is exactly why I hate crazy-obsessed fans. They... kinda scare me, and I can be a bit of a crazy fangirl myself when push comes to shove...

I knew the story, but it nice to know what's behind this - I don't read politics in comics too well as I don't khow which site has what specific atributes... I don't care about my countries politcs, and neighter other countries.

I think Paralax is kinda cool, and any super-insanity, especially of a cool design like the Corps's, is awesome. Then again, I've never read those comics, and John Stewart will probably always be "my" Lantern (thanks, DCAU...including Static Shock!).

There also was a Green Lantern crossover with Aliens (the face hugging, chest exploding, blood that can eat through plate steel ones, not the rest of the Green Lantern Corps)i have no idea how that happened

Interesting video. Look foward to seeing part 2 and what you have to say about the Death of Superman story.

If I may ask though, MovieBob, as I'm really wanting to know your opinion on this, on a scale to 1 to 10, how much did the 2011 MTV Movie Awards sucked? Are they even no longer relevant as a film awards show, considering how much they've been playing to the Twilight fan base which has given undeserved awards to them, making Hollywood think this is what the people want? Were they ever a relevant film awards show?! At this point, I personally consider the Razzies more relevant than the MTV Movie Awards. I just couldn't help but to want to hit my head against the wall seeing this year's show, like the last three before that.

Saarai-fan:
Interesting video. Look foward to seeing part 2 and what you have to say about the Death of Superman story.

If I may ask though, MovieBob, as I'm really wanting to know your opinion on this, on a scale to 1 to 10, how much did the 2011 MTV Movie Awards sucked? Are they even no longer relevant as a film awards show, considering how much they've been playing to the Twilight fan base which has given undeserved awards to them, making Hollywood think this is what the people want? Were they ever a relevant film awards show?! At this point, I personally consider the Razzies more relevant than the MTV Movie Awards. I just couldn't help but to want to hit my head against the wall seeing this year's show, like the last three before that.

The MTV Movie Awards were NEVER relevant, nor is any similar award that's left up to a public vote. They are an excuse to sell a BOATLOAD of advertising by assembling hundreds of famous/popular celebrities together in one place because it's bad P.R. to look ungrateful by not showing up to maybe get a priz - nothing more, nothing less. Yes, I remember when they used to have funny sketches and joke prizes, too; but the "main" show was still meaningless B.S.

The only thing sadder than being "upset" that the MTV Awards were a giant "Twilight" party is being SURPRISED by it ;)

What, you trash the old Corps for the yellow impurity caused by Parallax trapped in the Central Power Battery but no word about Alan Scott's sucky weakness against wood which is - as far as I know - never really explained and never overcome?

And I want to use this moment to state my disagreement with Kyle being stripped of his Ion powers. Anyone wanna join my rebel group?

MovieBob:
The MTV Movie Awards were NEVER relevant, nor is any similar award that's left up to a public vote. They are an excuse to sell a BOATLOAD of advertising by assembling hundreds of famous/popular celebrities together in one place because it's bad P.R. to look ungrateful by not showing up to maybe get a priz - nothing more, nothing less. Yes, I remember when they used to have funny sketches and joke prizes, too; but the "main" show was still meaningless B.S.

The only thing sadder than being "upset" that the MTV Awards were a giant "Twilight" party is being SURPRISED by it ;)

I agree with you on the point they're an excuse to sell a assload of adversising. I used to love it too with their funny sketches and whatnot, but now I just facepalm when looking at it. Still, I just can't help but to hate that the possible big wigs in Hollywood look at the MTV Movie Awards, watch the results, and think, "Oooh, so that's what the people want." Just makes me sad a bit.

So on scale of 1 to 10 on how much they sucked, guess that means they are at negative infinity. Anyways, thanks MovieBob.

OK Bob usually I attack you when you bring up political correctness but even I was struck with disbelief that people would call that political correctness. When you frame it that way it does sound a tad lefty but that's only if you assume all young people and all artists are liberal.

Well to be honest Bob, as far as the political spectrum goes, your exactly the kind of guy that was being talked about when people were complaining about Kyle Raynor. It's easy to dismiss the other side of these things when it's just that, the other side and not yours.

Let me be blunt, I'm pretty much on the opposite side of the spectrum politically even though I have every personal reason not to be. To be blunt I'm disabled, and yet I stick to my right wing ideals despite the fact that the guys who I'm usually backing are the ones who want to cut the benefits I am going to have an increasing need of as I get older, and the guys who I oppose are generally the guys who are going to give me things. In short, while I might not agree with them on everything, I generally stick to my principles.

I'm 35, and the 1990s was when I was in my teens through young adulthood, I was in the prime of my irresponsible geekdom when this, and numerous other things that can be similarly criticized were going on. On it's own you'd be correct that the whole Hal to Kyle changeover wouldn't have been that big a deal, but at the same time there was a general trend throughout all of geekdom to pretty much lay the smackdown on the Conservatives. Where before comics and most nerd media had remained fairly neutral, with characters from both demographics being present and managing to co-exist, there was a general house cleaning of right wing idealogy going on... and really it seemed to be connected to then President Bill Clinton and a lot of what seemed to be politically charged payback over the previous dominance of Ronald Reagan and his immediate successor George Bush Sr..

To put it bluntly, being even a moderate Republican (and yes, overall I *AM* moderate) in geekdom makes you something of a pariah nowadays because it seems like every attempt has been made to drive people like me out, and to portray the left wing as being inherantly good and pure, and the right wing with being... well everything that is evil and wrong. Just by expressing sentiments that aren't left wing or politically correct, or criticizing comics on those ground is enough to start massive, ongoing flame wars.

I do not think geekdom, of which comics is only one aspect, adapted to it's audience, so much as you had a situation where it set out to create the audience that we currently see, and it succeeded. Things like HEAT which is admittedly not entirely politically driven, are the expected backlash, things like that simply being notable because as you pointed out they worked when most similar protests have not.

It's easy to sit here and talk about moaning, when your pretty much in agreement with the changes that occured and the idealogy that is represented. That does not however mean that it was actually for the better, or even that it will stay that way indefinatly. Right now I think the political bias involved in geekdom will eventuall meet with a pretty big backlash, and really when that does happen I don't think it will be a good thing. Personally I tend to prefer a more realistic take on things, with a degree of parity between the two major political/social ideals that demonstrates how they have both their good and bad points.

Truthfully, with all of the lead up towards Marvel's "Civil War" event I thought that we were seeing things moving in that direction. In the end though it seems like they decided to pull the rug out from under it and turn it into a giant analogy to modern politics from a left wing perspective.... much how "V For Vendetta" as a movie was pretty much an exercise in indirect Bush bashing, while entirely missing the point of the original work. With "Civil War" to begin with they were creating a situation where both sides were basically right which is why the issues were so divisive and worth fighting for, in the end they pretty much turned it into a big "Iron Man is wrong, Captain America is right" statement with analogies to modern politics and "The War On Terror" which increasingly had little to do with the actual world they were in or the realities of the situation they were dealing with in that fantasy world.

Such are my thoughts at any rate. The basic point is that while people can point to any specific situation like "Green Lantern" and try and give reasons why why the changes were made in order to dismiss political accusations, if you look at the trends of the time you can see that there definatly was a political coup of sorts going on throughout almost all areas of geekdom.

Right now with the country divided 50-50 between political ideaologies and on most major issues, you aren't going to find many characters in comics, fantasy, or science fiction that represent the right wing perspective unless they happen to be bad guys.

HEAT is proof one should not provoke fan boys

on a another level anyone else find it funny that this video containing moaning and whining fan boys was put up at the same time that many of us escapsists are moaning and/or whining/aruging about the WiiU :P

Somehow I doubt Ryan Renold's version of Hal Jordan will be as hardcore a conservative as the comic books had him.

My dad was always a fan of Green Lantern, but the best I could get out of him was "he was cool and could beat up bad guys." So I don't really know much about the character.

Interesting episode, Bob, I look forward to the next one's conclusion.

Bob thinks fans were upset for a decade and changed the Green Lantern story by protest?

lol

The whole universe is being redone as of now, is he trying to say it was a 20 year struggle fans have finally won?

This is almost as amusing as people trying to put a number to 'My Little Pony' fans vs 'Green Lantern hater' fans.

A pointless observation secluded to a small minority trying to pass itself off as a cultural movement.

lol again.

Cheers!

Therumancer:

snip.

At the same time, it's easy to complain people are against you if a choice is made you don't like. More often than not our own biases and perceptions cloud things.

Take Civil war. You seem to ascribe that it's an "evil right wing" Iron Man vs a "good left wing" Captian America. Based on the War on Terror, that may be justifiable, but look at it in a different light: Iron Man was for creating a big government program that put restrictions, standards and expectations on heroes while Cap fought for individual freedom for heroes and to not be forced into a controling government. Who's left and right wing now? And the end moral of things was that the big beurcratcy a) didn't work and b) got derailed by someone with an alternative agenda.

Still, I won't argue a lift leaning bent is the nature of the superhero comic. The whole premis is based on the idea of people with great power feeling they should help others with it for no reward, or learing that self serving motives get them nowhere (Spider-Man, Booster Gold). On the other hand, how much of that is due to the silence of the right. I don't mean they haven't complained about balance loud enough. I mean they don't seem to try for their own creative works. If, as they claim, the demand is out there with 50% of the population, they'd be doing a service and proably make a few bucks in the process. The same goes with taking on "liberal Hopllywood". If an overweight pothead from Jersey can become a world fameous director, a few more on the right could give it a try instead of bitching that other people alter their creative visions to appeal to their worldview. There is room for both sides to exist, but someone has to create the other side, and it isn't likely to be someone that doesn't honestly beleive in it.

Redd the Sock:

Therumancer:

snip.

At the same time, it's easy to complain people are against you if a choice is made you don't like. More often than not our own biases and perceptions cloud things.

Take Civil war. You seem to ascribe that it's an "evil right wing" Iron Man vs a "good left wing" Captian America. Based on the War on Terror, that may be justifiable, but look at it in a different light: Iron Man was for creating a big government program that put restrictions, standards and expectations on heroes while Cap fought for individual freedom for heroes and to not be forced into a controling government. Who's left and right wing now? And the end moral of things was that the big beurcratcy a) didn't work and b) got derailed by someone with an alternative agenda.

Still, I won't argue a lift leaning bent is the nature of the superhero comic. The whole premis is based on the idea of people with great power feeling they should help others with it for no reward, or learing that self serving motives get them nowhere (Spider-Man, Booster Gold). On the other hand, how much of that is due to the silence of the right. I don't mean they haven't complained about balance loud enough. I mean they don't seem to try for their own creative works. If, as they claim, the demand is out there with 50% of the population, they'd be doing a service and proably make a few bucks in the process. The same goes with taking on "liberal Hopllywood". If an overweight pothead from Jersey can become a world fameous director, a few more on the right could give it a try instead of bitching that other people alter their creative visions to appeal to their worldview. There is room for both sides to exist, but someone has to create the other side, and it isn't likely to be someone that doesn't honestly beleive in it.

Well, it's like this.

Originally in The Civil War, they set it up to be a situation where both sides were equally right.

The Pro-Registration crowd was pretty much argueing that like it or not super beings are incredibly dangerous, and that it's ridiculous to say that they should not be accountable to anyone except for themselves, and that society should just have to deal with that. Basically the attitude was that all super heroes should operate under similar guidelines to the The Avengers, or The Fantastic Four. Unlike various X-men titles, this was not some kind of cover for a shady genocide plan, nor was it singling out Mutants since pretty much anyone with exceptional powers whether they be based on mutation, scientific alteration, or heck just highly advanced weaponry, would be handled the same way. Someone has a problem with a super hero, they can then find out who it was, and have them served papers much like has happened to both The Fantastic Four and The Avengers at various points.

The Anti-Registration crowd was pretty much making an arguement based not just around individual liberty, but also the basic arguement that if heroes were made accountable for their actions or hunted down actively, it would make dealing with a lot of super villains substantially more difficult. After all your typical hero dons his mask to break the law and probably commits dozens of crimes a night, ranging from breaking and entering, to illegal surveillance, to assault. In a world where villains like Doctor Doom have diplomatic immunity, do you really want heroes to worry about the law? What's more, when it comes to say saving a hundred people, do you want a hero to avoid taking action because his plan might involve say trashing someone's car by using it as a projectile, which could get him taken to court? The basic arguement being that super heroism would become impossible for largely the same reasons you saw at the beginning of the movie "The Incredibles", except unlike that movie you'd probably start seeing cities flattened almost immediatly if the heroes weren't quick and effective in their response.

The original point being that both sides were correct within the context of that world. Of the two sides, part of the point was that the Pro-registration side is arguably more sane, which to begin with was intended as a kind of counter-point to all of the stuf floating around in the X-titles, along with the specific mention that you had all of these super heroes who WERE operating in an accountable fashion without any real problems.

The situation became de-railed and turned into yet another X-men scenario rather than being anything differant, by writers wanting to make it more of a "liberty vs. security" issue and try and make it seem like the paranoid persecution of "maybe" terrorists, and similar things. Totally forgetting that we're not usually dealing with "maybe" cases here, but guys already known to go walking around in masks and break the law every 10 seconds or so, in the context of the scenario as presented the guys involved are guilty, and admit to being guilty, the arguement being "should these people be above the law?" which was rapidly forgotten in the course of creating things like a thinly veiled analogy to Gitmo (even advertised that way in a comic-book sales catalog for shops), and similar things. Before the official launch we even had Luke Cage going off to Iron Man about slavery in one of the most "WTF" moments in comics I've ever read, and I think once we started seeing things like that... though arguably beforehand as well, any semblance of this being the awesome event and analysis of the super hero genere that we had hoped for kind of went out the door.

Iron Man pretty much became an avatar of so called "right wing paranoia" where Captain America became an analogy for personal liberty and oddly enough what is presented as sanity and normality. The sides became analogous to political positions in the real world, and it even read that way, as opposed to dealing with the situations as they existed in that fictional world with those issues. The original point being made by using characters like The Fantastic Four or Iron Man once he stopped having a secret identity, characters who are effective heroes despite their accountability, and comparing them to heroes who are accountable to nobody but themselves and slink around in the shadows meting out what they think is jutice... well that never happened. Especially given that we're dealing with the ideal of vigilantism in a comic book world, where unlike reality we are dealing with guys that are trying to destroy the world every 48 hours, and have to examine the issue from that fantastic perspective. I mean the idea of someone like "Doctor Doom" is crazy to begin with, but "Doctor Doom" with diplomatic immunity which he's had in the comics for a while now? Yeah... the Anti-Registration guys have a valid point in being critical of a system that let that one happen.

-

As far as the rest goes, it's like this. The industry took what were popular, conservative leaning characters, and whenever possible retired and/or replaced them outright. It's a situation where it's not a matter of nobody liking those characters or nobody created them, but an attempt to surpress or erase them. Things like HEAT kind of demonstrated how there has been substnatial opposition to things like this, even if people want to call them "paranoid wierdos" and "conspiricy theorists" the overall evidence demonstrates it. Someone like Bob would probably tell you that it's a matter of the industry growing up, or something like that, but really it's more a matter of a house cleaning and an intentional political move. Right now it's pretty unlikely that you would find anyone to publish a character with some pretty extreme conservative leanings as a straighforward, non-comedy relief good guy, who was not going to get one upped by a liberal every 15 seconds. Remember this is an industry that had Superman renounce US citizenship not too long ago... a character that is defined as fighting for "Truth, Justice, and The AMERICAN" way.

See, the point being that right now despite the divide in the country your not going to find very many super heroes who would say put a group of mexicans illegally crossing the border back on their own side of the border with a stern warning not to do it again after say saving them from criminals out to rob and murder them or something.

Take any BIG issue ranging from border control, to gay rights, or well... anything, and these issues are big because of the nation being divided. Guaranteed when reading comics the hero is almost inevitably going to be on the left wing side of the fence, and the bad guys or the "obviously wrong" party will be on the right.

As Bob pointed out, there was a time when you could have comic characters with differant political leanings teaming up and having a dialogue about such things, that's no longer really the case. Anyone with right wing beliefs, or who complains about this kind of thing, is generally treated like a redneck cartoon character within the geekdom community. While I get a lot of harsh responses on forums like these, I also occasionally get some positive ones even from people that disagree with me because really the geekdom community has become so insulated from the right wing that people are shocked when then run into someone in these circles who can defend the other side, many not even realizing that the other side even had any valid points that COULD be debated.

The basic point here is that I think the issue isn't really one where there is a lack of anyone who would or could write right wing characters, or those with that point of view, but a situation where the industry had been carefully setting itself up to prevent it from happening on anything like a large scale.

Quaxar:
What, you trash the old Corps for the yellow impurity caused by Parallax trapped in the Central Power Battery but no word about Alan Scott's sucky weakness against wood which is - as far as I know - never really explained and never overcome?

And I want to use this moment to state my disagreement with Kyle being stripped of his Ion powers. Anyone wanna join my rebel group?

As far as I can remember, Alan Scott's weakness to wood was psuedo-explained by something to do with the source of his ring's power, the Starheart. I'm not 100% certain of the details, but I think it was sort of explained in the recent storyline when Jade was ressurected as a result of Blackest Night.

And as much as I liked Kyle as Ion, I personally don't think he used them enough - as far as recent continuity goes, I sorta like Sodom Yat. He can be a bitch at times, but he's been pretty awesome as well.

Just as a side-note, I fully believe that the Sinestro Corps War was the best event comics have done in recent times.

Bob, you continue to decipher the nerd Rosetta stone for all the stuff I skimmed over in my youth. You have my thanks.

A good episode (kinda weird that it is on a show called The Big Picture, but whatever), but did you have to cram your "90s sucked" schtick into it? Yes, we get it, Bob. You were bullied in the 90s. Woe is you. Now how about you man up and accept that the 90s had some good things along with the bad, just like any other decade.
Also, using a picture of Randy Ram as a justification for your opinion is hilarious, considering that Randy didn't hate the 90s because of its films, music, literature, politics, ..., he hated it because it was the (beginning of the) low point of his career/life; a selfish way of looking at things.
By using a picture of him as some kind of proof, that just reinforces the public's opinion that you are being a big baby about the whole ordeal.

Geamo:

Quaxar:
What, you trash the old Corps for the yellow impurity caused by Parallax trapped in the Central Power Battery but no word about Alan Scott's sucky weakness against wood which is - as far as I know - never really explained and never overcome?

And I want to use this moment to state my disagreement with Kyle being stripped of his Ion powers. Anyone wanna join my rebel group?

As far as I can remember, Alan Scott's weakness to wood was psuedo-explained by something to do with the source of his ring's power, the Starheart. I'm not 100% certain of the details, but I think it was sort of explained in the recent storyline when Jade was ressurected as a result of Blackest Night.

And as much as I liked Kyle as Ion, I personally don't think he used them enough - as far as recent continuity goes, I sorta like Sodom Yat. He can be a bitch at times, but he's been pretty awesome as well.

Just as a side-note, I fully believe that the Sinestro Corps War was the best event comics have done in recent times.

Alright. So it is sort of explained, thanks. I do not really catch up on Alan Scott anymore, he's not my kind of hero.

Well yes, Sodam Yat is not bad but he's a Daxamite anyway so now permanently adding Ion seems like they are giving him too much power. Though the Oans can control Ion through his power ring so it might not be that bad.
Nothing against Yat in person. It's just I like Kyle and it is an unusual move for the guardians.

Also, I agree on your last statement, at least as far as Blackest Night as I have yet to read that one. Comics are expensive, especially those spanning multiple issues.

wow...there could actually be a movie about how the fans reacted to the series :O

You should try replacing the faces you use in the episode with rage faces for a week or two. Lols would be had.

well i suppose i shouldn't say this but... all that actually sounds good to me;D

Very nice sequel hook. I'm waiting anxiously.

MovieBob:

The MTV Movie Awards were NEVER relevant, nor is any similar award that's left up to a public vote. They are an excuse to sell a BOATLOAD of advertising by assembling hundreds of famous/popular celebrities together in one place because it's bad P.R. to look ungrateful by not showing up to maybe get a priz - nothing more, nothing less. Yes, I remember when they used to have funny sketches and joke prizes, too; but the "main" show was still meaningless B.S.

The only thing sadder than being "upset" that the MTV Awards were a giant "Twilight" party is being SURPRISED by it ;)

The only public voted film award show that is any good is the UK's Empire Awards, mainly for the films that won and the fact that the films nominated and the films that win are chosen by film geeks. For example in this years show the awards were:
Best Film - Inception
Best Director - Edgar Wright - Scott Pilgrim
Best British Film - Kick-Ass
Best Actor - Colin Firth - The King's Speech
Best Actress - Noomi Rapace - The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo
Best Comedy - Four Lion
Best Horror - The Last Exorcism (only bad category of the show)
Best Sci-Fi/Fantasy - Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 1
Best Thriller - The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo
Best Newcomer - Chloe Grace Moretz - Kick-Ass/Let Me In (the only category MTV got right in their equivalent)

Plus, the Twilight films have never won any awards Empire gives out. But in the UK we get the much worse National Movie Awards, to indicate how bad they are, they make the MTV awards look like the f'ing Oscars.

Exterminas:
Could someone explain to me how this buisness with the colors really works?
I mean with superman it is like "Here is Cryptonite!" "Blarg" is it the same way with the green guy and a yellow shirt?

Green is the colour of willpower, it resides in the middle of the emotional spectrum, right next to yellow which is the colour of fear. The green ring used to be impervious to yellow but, as Green Lantern: Secret Origin tells us, Hal Jordan was able to break that rule and now everyone can... I think. When Sinestro was banned from the corps for becoming a fascist dictator, he went to the antimatter world of Qward and forged a yellow ring to fight the lanterns with. Upon Hal's return in Rebirth, Sinestro went out and created his own Yellow Lantern Corps (The Sinestro Corps). When the two duked it out, the prophesy of the Blackest Night (from the book of Oa) began to come true, at which point every colour of the spectrum (ROYGBIV) was granted it's own rings, power batteries and chosen members. Each colour represents an emotion, the very thing the guardians of the universe believe causes chaos. Red is rage, orange is avarice (greed), yellow is fear, green is willpower, blue is hope, indigo is compassion and violet is love. Each of the corps is pretty badass in its own way and the Blackest Night series is absolutely brilliant
Hope that helped! Also I did miss out a lot but yeah, you get the gist... or not, I donno. You get used to it all

SpaceMedarotterX:

maximara:
Snip

They didn't cut Hal to make Kyle, they cut Hal because Green Lantern dropped below the threshold for cancellation, like it or not Green Lantern was changing, if Hal didn't die the book would simply have been cancelled. The new issues coming out weren't anything out of the normal, and it's not like they weren't betraying their own continuity

That was NOT my point. It was not so much killing Hal that was ticking off Hal fans as the whole story we got required the Guardians, Hal, and the entire GL Corp to have IQs below that of a cinderblock and ignoring what little Post-Crisis continuity there was.

Furthermore there was a way to get Kyle without "cutting" Hal--follow Gerard Jones' original plot following it up with Hal starting a new corp with Kyle as its first member.

Never mind Green Lantern HAD ALREADY been cancelled with issue #224 in 1988. If Hal wasn't selling books in 1988 to save Green Lantern why did DC think he was going to sale books in 1990? As Supergirl shows many times it is not the CHARACTER that is boring but the way they are written do why kill them off rather than shove them into comic book limbo until you figure out what to do with them?

maximara:

That was NOT my point. It was not so much killing Hal that was ticking off Hal fans as the whole story we got required the Guardians, Hal, and the entire GL Corp to have IQs below that of a cinderblock and ignoring what little Post-Crisis continuity there was.

Furthermore there was a way to get Kyle without "cutting" Hal--follow Gerard Jones' original plot following it up with Hal starting a new corp with Kyle as its first member.

Never mind Green Lantern HAD ALREADY been cancelled with issue #224 in 1988. If Hal wasn't selling books in 1988 to save Green Lantern why did DC think he was going to sale books in 1990? As Supergirl shows many times it is not the CHARACTER that is boring but the way they are written do why kill them off rather than shove them into comic book limbo until you figure out what to do with them?

The problem with that? those issues were the same old shit that was causing the sales decline. I realize that Green Lantern was on it's third volume, what do you take me for? Kyle wasn't created and then they decided "Oh were not going to go with Gerads idea" they went "Green Lantern is simply not selling, we need to reinvigorate the WHOLE fucking concept." The only problem with Emerald Twilight was it being 3 issues instead of the required 6 for such a big change. What do you expect when 3 issues are written back to back with 3 different artists simply so they can get out on time.

And the thing that kicks you in the nuts further? KYLE RAYNER SOLD. The new concept? sold a fucktonne and no Gerad Jones rehashing the same old shit he'd been doing all volume was not going to change that. Wanna know why sales for Volume 3 failed? because Ron Marz left the book and Judd Winick and ESPECIALLY Ben Raab the fucking hack couldn't fill the boots.

Hal was made intresting for the first time in his entire god damn career as a character when he took the stage as the tragic Anti-Villain, bombarded by grief and loss and confronted with a new hero who was every bit as related to the villains he fought as he was to the reader.

Kyle and Hal both had their grief, Kyle was the hero who had a good life and then with the Ring came blood and the death of his loved ones, being smacked around by Neron and New Gods, finding out that he left no markings on the future, failing to be there every damn time. And Hal was the same! he failed to protect Coast City, he failed the Justice League, he failed the Green Lantern Corp! Hal wasn't some mustache twirling villain, he was a good guy who just wanted his life back. He wanted Barry Allen back, his city back, when he finds out that Kyles girlfriend died he offers to bring her back too, genuinely sorry that she died and Kyle had been through what he had!

And when he died and became the Specter? he became even more intresting, because he showed such human sadness about never being able to be with Carol and Tom again. Hell Emerald Knights was the best selling book of that era not because it featured Hal, but because it featured Hal as written by Ron Marz.

Geoff Johns has played more fast and loose with the continuity than anyone did. You can go back to 'assuming' that a 'new' green lantern corp, with the same god damn name and some new faces would have brought the same sales spike, would have saved the book. I'll go on understanding that it was a gamble that paid off explosivly.

But obviously you're just going to retaliate that I'm missing your point so lets get some things out of the ways, and others when I get to trawl through my stack of GL comics and piece together continuity (RESEARCH!)

Kyles ring wasn't Hal's ring, not really. It was a crushed ring, recreated by Ganthet, still tied to Hal Jordan by being the original owner, but possessing different features. Ganthet didn't instill a weakness or limitations because he wanted his new choice to have the best shot he could. Also putting on the ring didn't have it expell his guilt and sadness, it was him trying not to contfront the grief of Alex being dead that caused Oblivion to be expelled.

Sinestro never did anything with his ring 'For Personal Gain' what he did with the ring was use it to 'Round up Criminals' not for his own personal gain but because he believed in instilling order. Yeah I know this stinks of 'bullshit' when Yalan-Gur got away with the same crap, but Yalan-Gur also did it successfuly for YEARS before the Guardians put a stop to him. They kinda suck like that.

The Poglachi were using rings created by the QWARDIANS if you remember, that harnessed 'Anti-Oan Energy' and... okay honestly I barely remember the facts from the Lord Malvolio crap other than it being said in interviews as a way to 'get out' of turning Hal into a villain later on. Which didn't make sense to me due to the above.

All Guardian action/inaction can pretty much be summed up as 'The Guardians are fucking stupid' they really are. Smart enough to create intergalactic society but dumb enough to not understand concepts such as grief. Even after they came back with the Zamorans they understood things like humor and curiosity, but were also content to let a moisac of alien races dragged out against there will slaughter one another to see the results.

I don't see what Hal not being fearless has to do with Emerald Twilight, since even during Gerad Jones run when the ring is out of energy (and thus shouldn't be able to do diddly squat) Hal remained exactly the same. Hal also took up multiple rings because he was INSANE WITH GRIEF, his constructs werent anymore powerful.

Yalan-Gur and the Fist of the Guardians are indeed grevious plot holes, both of them explained away by the obvious "Guardians are complete cocks" the third plot point is not stopping them when their lives were at stake, which again falls under the "Guardians are Idiots" idea.

The thing is... the Guardians ARE idiots, they take way to long to deal with any situation

In the end I simply post this

Ron Marz:
"I would have loved to write 'ET' over six issues. I think that's about the length that would have been necessary to really make Hal's descent believable and tragic. So what we ended up doing was a bit rushed because of circumstances, and I regret that. But if I'd had six issues, the events would have been generally the same. I just would have had more room for the character stuff. Sometimes you just have to play the cards you're dealt."

Despite Marz's wish to further explore the psyche of Hal Jordan, as he said, many things were set in stone and he did what he could to create the best story, given the requirements. "I had a few pages of notes from editorial, dictating the broad strokes of what needed to happen: Hal goes nuts, wipes out the Corps, kills Sinestro and blows up the Central Battery and the Guardians. The details were up to me. I decided to have Hal kill Kilowog on camera, because I felt we needed to feel the loss of a more known character to make this thing have some weight. I decided that Ganthet would be the one Guardian to survive, since he'd had some previous exposure.

"I've never given much thought to what I would have done differently, because that wasn't a possibility at the time. As I said, though, more pages to tell the story would have been great.

That actually sounds cool. Anyone know where to read these comics?

Jyggalag:
That actually sounds cool. Anyone know where to read these comics?

Do you mean are there scans of comics online like Manga has? no. DC has yet to take to the digital distribution market (they will be with the oncoming Post-Flashpoint event) and The trades for Green Lantern are... Sketchy at best. (DC has never really been good at the whole Trade Paperback thing)

It also depends on where you want to start, and which Lantern you want to read about.

Another week, another jab at some conservative spokesman.

Look, I'm no fan of Beck, but this is becoming transparent, cartoony and ridiculous. It is as if you are bending your topics just to get a shot at these people...

Take the high road.

Other than that, pretty informative piece. Can't wait for part 2.

Oh boy, cuz we all just love hearing Bob bitch about the 90s don't we?

Admittedly, this was a good episode, but as he admitted himself: no original content. So he can't be blamed for the quality here.

i think i already know what happens, of course 99% of MY comic knowledge is 2nd hand from internet entertainers (Linkara and such) i believe the movie is also going to have something similar to what Bob will talk about next week

slightly off topic but i wonder if Bob will talk about the other rings at some point...maybe i am wrong but i think there are as many rings as colors in the rainbow that represent different emotions, with black royally fucking up that whole DC universe...that would be a good comics are weird segment =D

This is why I don't read American Comics.. they take a story, and make a freeway out of it.

I know I might get torn apart for this, but that actually didn't sound that bad too me. I think it was an interesting twist to make the Green Lantern go insane and turn into a super villain.

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