About Critics (Part II)

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About Critics (Part II)

Here's why MovieBob has been ignoring some of your other complaints.

Read Full Article

While I don't agree with your opinions on many movies Bob, I cannot fault your reasoning. I guess it all comes down to a matter of perception of things and like your Ratatouille comment, individual emotional connections. And as long as you can defend your opinion, more power to ya.

I recall someone commenting on Machete, a movie you applauded for being crazy violent AND having a purpose, saying that they wished that the movie would just stay out of politics, because it's kind of distracting from the main point. So they say. I might of paraphrased that.

Aside from that, I love the Ratatouille reference. Although I hated how you ended with saying that anyone who defends the Transformers movies is just plain wrong. It kind of undoes everything you just said, even if you were saying it to be funny.

In fact, you're attempts at humor, so far as I've seen, really... are more offensive, in a personal sense, then actually funny.

I'm pretty sure being against ignorance makes you a liberal Bob. I'll bet that if you were there when Paul Revere rang that bell and fired off those shots to warn the British they weren't going to take our guns, you wouldn't even have had a gun! REAL Americans don't need no fancy book learnin' to make decisions like you and your Lamestream media elite! Where's your birth certificate you socialist, Kenyan Islamo-facist?

HankMan:
I'm pretty sure being against ignorance makes you a liberal Bob. I'll bet that if you were there when Paul Revere rang that bell and fired off those shots to warn the British they weren't going to take our guns, you wouldn't even have had a gun! REAL Americans don't need no fancy book learnin' to make decisions like you and your Lamestream media elite! Where's your birth certificate you socialist, Kenyan Islamo-facist?

haha...ha...right? right. haha. also no pun?

Ha ha, you Americans and your crazy political fights...

Whatever, all this article made me think is how much I love Ratatouile (the movie, not the food). And yes, you can point out a movie is bad even if I liked it. That's why I don't watch reviews until after watching the movie, or I'll have bias in the theater and won't be able to enjoy it. I also do that with games, try to make my own opinion before reading any reviews.

Case in point, Pirates 4. After seeing it I gave it a "Well, it's better than Ghost Rider". Then watched Bob's review and realized I really wouldn't have enjoyed it as much, had I done it before.

Ah well, agree to disagree i suppose. At the end of the day I'll still go see transformers 3, you'll still hate me for it, and I'll still watch your review yelling at me about it. I appreciate your desire to see the mean quality of films rise, but I think that such a perspective is a luxury. I've stopped watching a lot of serious movies that i know a few years ago, i would have dove into and enjoyed. Mostly because modern art films strive for an emotional resonance with all the shit that's happened to me in my life that i just can't handle anymore. I was on the verge of tears through half of Kung Fu Panda 2 for gods' sake (all that father-son stuff). I suppose that some could find catharsis in such an experience but not I, not anymore.

I still enjoy your reviews, more so than most others these days. Happy viewing.

Did I ever tell you that I love you have 2 videos and one written article a week, Bob? Because if I didn't, I really should have.

MovieBob:

People like what they like, often without much discernable understanding as to "why" they like it.

One of my friends who critiques EVERYTHING made me realize this. He questions or challenges me about everything, and though it can drive me absolutely crazy sometimes, I still must thank him, because now I try my best to understand why I like the things I do, and it has helped me understand myself so much better. (And apparently you spelled discernible wrong. I didn't catch it, but spell-check did.)

Wonderful article. I love your well thought-out justifications for things, as it's a nice change from the unsupported opinions most people give.

For the track record the below is the speech Moviebob is referencing regarding Ego's speech in Ratatouille:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JPOoFkrh94

It's a humbling realization that applies to any field that involves a critic and more critics do need to have such a realization.

I think you should review a classic movie that everyone has seen, like The Last Crusade or Lord of the Rings or something. It would provide an interesting perspective since you wouldn't have to contend with the "should you see this or not" question.

Edit to be OT: See reviewing an classic movie would highlight the portions of a critics job that aren't just recommendation. This includes stuff like putting things in a broader context like pushing a new things or bashing on cliches.

MovieBob:
MovieBob: About Critics (Part II)

Here's why MovieBob has been ignoring some of your other[b] complaints.

[b]Read Full Article

Tags are wrong.

If I want to do something fun and thought provoking I usually read a book or maybe watch a documentary. When I want to relax I play games, watch TV, and go to the movies. As such I tend to avoid most of the heavier and more meaningful films. But would I want people to stop making those deeper films? Never. And I'm not really interested in "dumb fun" either, I'll take Aliens or The Abyss over 90 minutes of vapid car chases any day. I may lean towards the lighter action flicks but that doesn't mean they can't have some deeper meaning.

And really if a movie is trying to be "just dumb fun" and the critics say that it is "just dumb fun" it's not really a criticism is it, it's a statement of fact. Yeah it may be said as a criticism, and it may be raised as the reason the movie isn't worth seeing, but if you're looking for "just dumb fun" for the evening chances are you weren't looking for a future Oscar-nominee anyway.

Wild_Marker:
Ha ha, you Americans and your crazy political fights...

Right, because the rest of the world never argue the left/right question :-P

i liked exactly one moment in the whole Transformers series. The scene where the Autobots land on earth for the first time. There is a majesty to that scene. The acting from the leads actually displays the appropriate awe. And the music makes the whole thing sublime.

Nearly everything else was closer to shit.

LordLundar:
For the track record the below is the speech Moviebob is referencing regarding Ego's speech in Ratatouille:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JPOoFkrh94

It's a humbling realization that applies to any field that involves a critic more critics do need to have such a realization.

wow...excellent scene. I really need to watch that movie

Left Wing Bias: I guess this depends on where these critics are, TBF I see several Left-Biased critics as much as Right-Biased critics. What I think though may piss people off about Left-Biased critics is that while Right-Biased have an easier time of being ignored (assuming of course one isn't on the same level of the Right), the problem with Left-Biased I find is the attitude about them usually sounds condescending, makng them sound more pretentious than they probably realise (or perhaps as much as the hope to seem like), and as such that smugness about them only serves to distance themselves from the audience. This is only made worse I find when thse particular critics find something in a movie to rave about or complain about that not only most audience members wouldn't see, but most critics woouldn't see either, more than likely because it was never really there. In a sense this is true on either side, but I find while the Right will say anyone who doesn't like/hate a movie just doesn't get it, the Left will more than often say anyone who doesn't like/hate a movie is just a terrible and ignorant person, making those who watch those reviews fell worse about themselves or doubt themselves because they didn't see what the reviewer was trying to look for, which probably has more of a negativity reaction than how they feel about disagreeing with the Right. Also, TBF you've never really came across as a Left-Biased critic Bob, if only because you somehow manage to bring a few Left and Right Bias into your reviews or articles. To list them all would take too long, but I guess some examples would be your take on Idris Elba in Thor for Left-Bias (he was fine, but the idea that giving roles is somehow a better solution as oppossed to say having new characters created is somewhat Left-Bias) and your Magneto Was Right video (a small window into your small but somewhat apparent Objectivist viewpoint).

Turning off your Brain: I don't see how you can answer that in a condescending way when you yourself have said in your reviews that certain movies are really good if we turn off our brains. Just saying. Further, you know what's better than seeing fireworks? Seeing fireworks with other people. Sometimes these movies just are fun to watch becuse of the people who are also there to watch it. It feels like a fun event, a way of being social with others without having to go thorugh the awkwardness of approaching someone. Are alot of these movies bad? Sure, but you seem to think that people watching these movies somehow validates everything about them, forgetting one thing: the audience can descern from good fireworks and bad fireworks. Why else does a movie series like Transformers continue but something like Dragon Wars remain a single film? Because the first is a better executed series of fireworks, and if you think I'm trying to defened Transformers think again, as I don't like both movies either, but I'm willing to at least say that among bad movies it is certainly easier for me to swallow and tolerate than other bad movies. Besides, to reiterate a point I made last time, even if these movies are being made en masse, its because the audience is asking for them, and as much as I don't like these movies, I think that the audience still has a right to ask for what they want, not for them to ask only for what I want.

Meaning: The problem with this one is which movie its being put into. There are indeed several movies I think that are terrible and their lack of meaning is what lead to my negative reaction, but those were in movies where not much else was happening, so it had no excuse for even existing. Then there are movies I think are awesome because of their lack of meaning, like Planet Terror or Hobo with a Shotgun, fun movies that were enjoyable to watch in theatres and at home. Was their lack of meaning their only defining feature? No, but it acted as a catalyst for the other things I liked, such as the action, gore, and just plain implausable. It's lack of meaning helped me realise from the get-go that this wasn't trying to be anything more than what was shown, so I was able to sit-back, relax, and laugh as I soaked in the good parts. And you know what, I think if those movies tried to havve meaning to them, it would have hampered the experience. Take Machete for example, it was a good fun film, I'd still probably watch it, but the part about crossing the border and having completely open doors felt hoakey and cheesy, and not in a good way, but a bad way. Thankfully it didn't appear so much, but it was still boring when it did happen. A major offender though of this was Sucker Punch, the worst movie I've seen this year, one that sucked some royal donkey dong because of its inclusion of a meaning. Had it been meaningless, it would be easier to take and perhaps fun to watch (it would also probably be only about 30-40 minutes long then), but because of its meaning, it just came off as pretentious, convulated, and even insulting. What am I trying to get here, that meaning is bad? No, not at all, in fact meaning can take a boring premise and turn it into a meaningful experience, but it actually has to follow trhough with it, go far with it. In a lot of movies like Sucker Punch, I see them add meaning in such a half-assed manner that it makes the experience worse had they not have it at all. In other words, if your going to have meaning actually make it important and fully-formed, don't half-ass it, otherwise you should just have no meaning.

Great article, especially the Liberalism part.

Honestly, I never viewed the whole "movies don't have to be good" argument that way. I personally am much pickier than the average movie goer, but there are plenty of movies that I enjoy just for the spectacle.

Still...that's a damn good comparison. Makes me feel guilty for liking those movies. XD

Good article. Thanks :)

I agree to quite everything. Ever noticed how MovieBob starts throwing in smiles when he talks about something controversive?
Edit. I just remembered watching Penn and Teller's Bullshit show, where they told that actual difference between liberal and conservative parties is how big they think the government should be. Liberals want big government with each man carrying small role, and conservatives want small government where each man has great power. Or something like that.

I think from the political point of view alot of the problem stems from people (mostly American) not actually knowing the differences betwen right wing (fascism) left wing (communisim) and conservitive (some where in the middle). The problem being that the American political system is excessivly scewed to the right to the point that what Americans call leftist policies/politics would in most other countries be called conservitive middle of the road politics.

Yes sonic the rest of the world argue the left right question they just do it from a more balanced point of view. That and most of the rest of the democratic world get there election campaigns over and done with in the period of a month or less while America stretches the same process over a couple of years or more.

starwarsgeek:

LordLundar:
For the track record the below is the speech Moviebob is referencing regarding Ego's speech in Ratatouille:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JPOoFkrh94

It's a humbling realization that applies to any field that involves a critic more critics do need to have such a realization.

wow...excellent scene. I really need to watch that movie

You definetly must. After that, Wall-E and Up, you start seriously wondering why Pixar would lower themselves to make Cars 2 (although to be fair to them, I didn't give two pennys for Toy Story 3 and it turned out to be so awesome I almost cry)

Moviebob:
Maybe it's a musical cue, maybe it's a "one great scene" deal, whatever - every movie, even a terrible one, is loved by somebody

By that logic, somebody out there loved the Human Centipede. I find this rather disturbing a thought.

OT: Good article. I like these kinds of articles that elaborate on not just Moviebob's movie opinions, but world opinions in general.

Also, I just wanted to point out that I never understood the concept of "left wing/right wing" politics until reading this, so thankyou for that.

"Thusly, while I won't cop to any kind of bias against one "side" or the other, I'll freely admit to being quite proudly biased against stupidity, injustice and lies - if and when I come up against a "creationist" film (stupidity) I'm probably going to be inclined to kick the crap out of it. When I've encountered openly homophobic/anti-gay films (re: injustice), I've typically taken them to task for it. Those pseudo-science "Global Warming doesn't exist" documentaries? They are lies, and I treat them as lies deserve."

I dunno... calling someone's beliefs that they based their life around "stupidity" seems pretty biased to me.

And my opinion of him keeps getting lowered...

Between the constant bolding and emoticons, this felt a lot more unprofessional than usual. That bugged me a little.

Anyway, I really appreciated the points- I think your arguments are well reasoned as always.

risenbone:
I think from the political point of view alot of the problem stems from people (mostly American) not actually knowing the differences betwen right wing (fascism) left wing (communisim) and conservitive (some where in the middle). The problem being that the American political system is excessivly scewed to the right to the point that what Americans call leftist policies/politics would in most other countries be called conservitive middle of the road politics.

Yes sonic the rest of the world argue the left right question they just do it from a more balanced point of view. That and most of the rest of the democratic world get there election campaigns over and done with in the period of a month or less while America stretches the same process over a couple of years or more.

You're a bit off. Conservatism is right-of-centre to almost far right. Liberalism is centrist to just left-of-centre. Social democracy, socialism, and communism are left of that.

But this is the problem with using a simplistic dichotomy based on 200-year-old French politics. This site uses two axes, left-right to represent economic views and authoritarian-libertarian to represent social views. See how famous leaders and thinkers line up.

Ne1butme:
i liked exactly one moment in the whole Transformers series. The scene where the Autobots land on earth for the first time. There is a majesty to that scene. The acting from the leads actually displays the appropriate awe. And the music makes the whole thing sublime.

Nearly everything else was closer to shit.

The only scene I liked in that movie was when Optimus fought that one Decepticon on the freeway. The reason I liked it was because it was true to the source material: If you're not Megatron, Optimus is going to crush you and it won't even be a contest. And it wasn't. The fight was over before it began.

On Topic: Fun reading. I didn't realize the rest of the world no longer argued about creation verses evolution. I'm glad he made a reference to the critic in Ratatouille. That is the part of the movie that's always stuck with me because it reminds me that, in the end of the day, a critic's opinion shouldn't affect my own. I may end up having the same opinion--or a completely opposite one--as the critic, but it doesn't matter.

SonicWaffle:

Wild_Marker:
Ha ha, you Americans and your crazy political fights...

Right, because the rest of the world never argue the left/right question :-P

Actually, no. Not the way it's done in America, anyway. Our definition of what makes left and right . . . left and right is largely completely arbitrary and meaningless and when you step outside of American culture and examine political philosophies of different countries, you really see that. That's the problem with the right/left split in political philosophy; things that have absolutely no relationship to each other get lumped together as if supporting one meant you had to support the other. Ask yourself this: why should a person's stance on gay rights affect their stance on stem-cell research? Why should their belief on religion affect their positions on the appropriate size of government?
Sorry, straying off topic.
The point is, your assumption here is that he left/right split that we argue in America exists in other countries. It doesn't. The way we divide left and right is different in many ways from which other countries divide it, supposing that the other country only divides its political philosophies into two different stances. Point of fact, we only have the left-right split because we have only two political parties (that matter, I mean). In countries that have more parties, you have more political divisions.
So no, the "left/right question" does not really get argued outside of the United States.

"Pseudo-science "Global Warming doesn't exist" documentaries".

..

That sounds horrible.

So, everyone pointing out how you condescend to your audience more than you critique movies made your tummy hurt huh? The only way to make that go away Bob is to cop to it, apologize, and stop doing it. Just saying that you understand why every movie is loved by someone, doesn't excuse you from insulting people for the movies they like. It just makes you a hypocrite. You have to admit you were wrong before you can be forgiven.

SoopaSte123:
Did I ever tell you that I love you have 2 videos and one written article a week, Bob? Because if I didn't, I really should have.

I know, right? It makes waiting a tiny bit easier. And then you have the Overthinker stuff and some podcasts too, although honestly my favourite material remains the Escapist one. I think it's because the Overthinker is more for fun from what I can tell and less... "professional" I guess?

captainjackofms:
I dunno... calling someone's beliefs that they based their life around "stupidity" seems pretty biased to me.

Oh, it is biased, but it's neither Left-wing nor Right-wing. I don't think he denies he has subjective opinions and is biased on a bunch of stuff. He's just saying it's outside of the left-right political spectrum.

About the critic thing:
I remember when I was in art school (I spent a year there). It was pretty horrid, we had various classes that we had to make something for once a year, and they were merciless in criticizing them. We were grated out of 20 and most people would get 1 after 1 after 1 (they wouldn't give less to someone who had actually done something). After working the 15-20 hours required for each project, getting the same grade as someone who would have spent five minutes sucked. It was heartbreaking.

One teacher told me once about that, close to the end of the year. He talked about how when you work on a project, you put yourself into it, you love it. And when it's attacked, you feel you're attacked. And you need to learn to dissociate yourself from it, and be the one attacking it. Because as much as you like it, it might still be a piece of shit. And he said, when he looked back at the stuff he made as a student, which he had kept, it was shit. He could see it. He knew it. But man, he still loved it and it was heartbreaking every time.

Something you love isn't the same as something you made, but the emotional investment might be similar. When that thing is attacked, you feel attacked because you liked it. It's hard learning to detach yourself from it. Hell, I spent a year being told my stuff sucked and doing it anyways, and I still don't have a tough skin. Honestly can't take criticism well at all. But I know it's a fault on my part, not the people doing the criticism.

About politics:
It's funny, here in France "liberal" means "right-wing". Not because your left is our right (your left is more our center), but because we don't refer to the same thing being liberal.
We refer to classical liberalism rather than social liberalism, so your "liberal" is left-wing, our "liberal" is right-wing.
Before I realise that, it made discussing politics with Americans pretty weird.
We also don't have the same dichotomy of every issue becoming a left-wing or a right-wing issue. We don't have the evolution debate at all (religious people think that's how God wanted things to happen, by evolving, non-religious people think that's just the way it is, and either way nobody sees it as having anything to do with whether God exists or not. Kind of like gravity, it exists, religious people think God made it so, non-religious people don't. End of story).
We also have lots of parties, some left-wing, some right-wing, some extreme-left or extreme-right, some center, some center-left, some center-right... So yeah, we're less used to dividing things in an either/or kind of thing, because every party has its own views on every issue and it's not purely tied to where they fit in the left-right spectrum.

Anyway, interesting stuff.

Sex does not require romance, meaningful connection or even attraction - merely the joining of interlocking parts and the exchange of fluids.

Sorry I just thought I would mention with your 'not everything needs meaning' argument. While I cannot deny that some of this probably does come from insecurity, I would contend that an equal amount comes from serviceability. No, sex does not need a meaningful connection. And sometimes that's good.
Sex without a meaningful connection can be a completely serviceable and useful release for any human, and it does so without the need for any of the mental strain normally associated with convincing a woman your worth being around after hours. Just like Transformers. Well sort of. There's less cleanup, and it costs slightly more (bam).
But you did already say you understand this. Which is good, I just wish you would spend less time per review reminding us how crap we are for enjoying a one-nighter. A casual movie-bang if you will.

But why-oh-why do you feel the need to remind us of your disapproval every other review? Okay, you're having a hard time meeting your time quota. I get it, I've been there-I may not write reviews, but my work involves its own kind of minimums that can be ungodly to meet. But all the same dude, you need to mix it up a little if you're just trying to stretch your play time. Record your bum with plastic eyeballs on it and do a dance. Shoehorn some 'kitties shot by lasers' in there. Record your review, and then take part of it mirror it or play it backwards and tack it back on to the end of the review. Something, anything new!

Hmm, I somewhat agree and disagree with Bob, as is my usual schtick. Though He does raise some good points, that even I had to think about.

SonicWaffle:

Wild_Marker:
Ha ha, you Americans and your crazy political fights...

Right, because the rest of the world never argue the left/right question :-P

We have three major parties in Canada. More if you count the Green Party and Bloc Quebecois. No not everyone in the rest of the world argue about left/right.

MovieBob:
MovieBob: About Critics (Part II)

Here's why MovieBob has been ignoring some of your other complaints.

Read Full Article

I think conservatism and liberalism refer to a lot more than simply the reach/size of government power. American Conservatism is defined quite a bit by a set-in-stone traditional values system, usually based on church doctrines with assumed Biblical support from several decades ago, and a corresponding yearning to get back to "the way things were." Whether or not things really were the way that many conservatives imagine is open for debate. Liberalism is very much defined by establishing and protecting civil rights and ensuring that everyone has a voice, and to a lesser extent to ensuring that eveyone has a fair shake. When one gets into the specifics of this, of course, the role and extent of federal power comes into play.

Good points, but you could pass on calling stupid to religious people. That really passes as stupid in itself.

Actually, I don't really get your double standard. Racist remarks pass as injustice, but bashing religious people doesn't? Do you need to be reminded that the declaration of human rights, you know, the thing you've defended time and time again, defends the equality of both races and beliefs?

It baffles me how people can be so unconsciously hypocritic about their own remarks.

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