Commentary on "Fire and Blood"

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Noelveiga:
SNIP!

I don't think we'll come to an agreement. We're coming from two different places, I think.

Nice chat, though.

unabomberman:

Noelveiga:
SNIP!

I don't think we'll come to an agreement. We're coming from two different places, I think.

Nice chat, though.

Yep. Agreed on all counts :)

I just want to clarify that I do like Game of Thrones. I just don't think it's a TV or fantasy revolution in any way. It's... competent. I watch it. Gladly. It's just not the first thing on my weekly to-watch list.

Noelveiga:

unabomberman:

Noelveiga:
SNIP!

I don't think we'll come to an agreement. We're coming from two different places, I think.

Nice chat, though.

Yep. Agreed on all counts :)

I just want to clarify that I do like Game of Thrones. I just don't think it's a TV or fantasy revolution in any way. It's... competent. I watch it. Gladly. It's just not the first thing on my weekly to-watch list.

Fair enough.

Whether it is revolutionary depends on how you look at it. As it stands, it is one of the first fantasy series of this generation to treat the situations that present themselves in a serious manner beyond what had been the staple of the genre; but yes, we already saw this kind of treatment, but with a sparser and more to the point prose, in Dune a good, good while back before it became "cool."

As for it being a TV series, it could be said that it is groundbreaking, thematically speaking, if only because they succeeded in portraying the content so successfully, and so far nothing of that scope was ever attempted. The closest thing I've seen to this thing has been the first Dune mini series, which I absolutely loved (way closer to the source material than the abomination David Lynch churned out).

But I guess it all gets down to taste. I'm much more enthusiastic to digest this sort of thing as it seems to be the first time where I'm actually having a bunch of fun with an unabashed Fantasy series that treads on grounds that I do not find annoying, for the most part--it's just a bunch of dumb, backwards people fighting for what an uncomfortable chair represents while being totally obvlivious of the massive clusterfuck of brick-shitting proportions that is heading their way. On the otehr hand, you may already have had more experience with the genre than I do and are, likely, more familiar with the tropes being played.

unabomberman:

Noelveiga:

unabomberman:

I don't think we'll come to an agreement. We're coming from two different places, I think.

Nice chat, though.

Yep. Agreed on all counts :)

I just want to clarify that I do like Game of Thrones. I just don't think it's a TV or fantasy revolution in any way. It's... competent. I watch it. Gladly. It's just not the first thing on my weekly to-watch list.

Fair enough.

Whether it is revolutionary depends on how you look at it. As it stands, it is one of the first fantasy series of this generation to treat the situations that present themselves in a serious manner beyond what had been the staple of the genre; but yes, we already saw this kind of treatment, but with a sparser and more to the point prose, in Dune a good, good while back before it became "cool."

As for it being a TV series, it could be said that it is groundbreaking, thematically speaking, if only because they succeeded in portraying the content so successfully, and so far nothing of that scope was ever attempted. The closest thing I've seen to this thing has been the first Dune mini series, which I absolutely loved (way closer to the source material than the abomination David Lynch churned out).

But I guess it all gets down to taste. I'm much more enthusiastic to digest this sort of thing as it seems to be the first time where I'm actually having a bunch of fun with an unabashed Fantasy series that treads on grounds that I do not find annoying, for the most part--it's just a bunch of dumb, backwards people fighting for what an uncomfortable chair represents while being totally obvlivious of the massive clusterfuck of brick-shitting proportions that is heading their way. On the otehr hand, you may already have had more experience with the genre than I do and are, likely, more familiar with the tropes being played.

Well, it's closer to being a first in doing the scope and the tone *for a fantasy setting*. It's just that there's a ton of other stuff (a lot of it on HBO, to be fair) that is very close in many ways. Rome was all for the frontal nudity and backstabbing political intrigue, Boardwalk Empire is close in tone, the Sopranos comparisons started before the show did.

It just so happens that HBO has decided to do one of these very tonally specific shows actually set in a fantasy universe rather than a historical period.

And yeah, like you said, not even the first go at that. Even less so if you count fantasy and sci-fi as the same genre and start thinking about BSG and Walking Dead as well. So unique? Not quite, but definitely... well, rare.

That is not a fully positive thing, at least for me. There's this weird uneasiness I get when people are too caught up in the fiction (like I said above, talking about historical accuracy or referring to the characters as if they were real people). I guess it's residual nerd shame but, deep down, I'm not entirely sure that anybody should be taking the process of hatching dragon eggs this fucking seriously. Really, a naked woman wrapped in dragons spawned out of the ashes of her dead lover? And that remote, shit-bricking-proportioned threat you talk about? It seems to be a straight-up zombie horde. Which exists in the same universe as the naked dragon lady. Somebody somewhere should be acknowledging the silly in that concept, and nobody is.

That may well be what prevents it from getting me excited past the "yeah, it's ok" mark. The continuous geekgasm induced by everybody involved with the production taking these concepts so damn *sternly*, if that makes sense. I mean, the protagonists are called "the Starks", for God's sake.

Noelveiga:

unabomberman:

Noelveiga:

Yep. Agreed on all counts :)

I just want to clarify that I do like Game of Thrones. I just don't think it's a TV or fantasy revolution in any way. It's... competent. I watch it. Gladly. It's just not the first thing on my weekly to-watch list.

Fair enough.

Whether it is revolutionary depends on how you look at it. As it stands, it is one of the first fantasy series of this generation to treat the situations that present themselves in a serious manner beyond what had been the staple of the genre; but yes, we already saw this kind of treatment, but with a sparser and more to the point prose, in Dune a good, good while back before it became "cool."

As for it being a TV series, it could be said that it is groundbreaking, thematically speaking, if only because they succeeded in portraying the content so successfully, and so far nothing of that scope was ever attempted. The closest thing I've seen to this thing has been the first Dune mini series, which I absolutely loved (way closer to the source material than the abomination David Lynch churned out).

But I guess it all gets down to taste. I'm much more enthusiastic to digest this sort of thing as it seems to be the first time where I'm actually having a bunch of fun with an unabashed Fantasy series that treads on grounds that I do not find annoying, for the most part--it's just a bunch of dumb, backwards people fighting for what an uncomfortable chair represents while being totally obvlivious of the massive clusterfuck of brick-shitting proportions that is heading their way. On the otehr hand, you may already have had more experience with the genre than I do and are, likely, more familiar with the tropes being played.

Well, it's closer to being a first in doing the scope and the tone *for a fantasy setting*. It's just that there's a ton of other stuff (a lot of it on HBO, to be fair) that is very close in many ways. Rome was all for the frontal nudity and backstabbing political intrigue, Boardwalk Empire is close in tone, the Sopranos comparisons started before the show did.

It just so happens that HBO has decided to do one of these very tonally specific shows actually set in a fantasy universe rather than a historical period.

And yeah, like you said, not even the first go at that. Even less so if you count fantasy and sci-fi as the same genre and start thinking about BSG and Walking Dead as well. So unique? Not quite, but definitely... well, rare.

That is not a fully positive thing, at least for me. There's this weird uneasiness I get when people are too caught up in the fiction (like I said above, talking about historical accuracy or referring to the characters as if they were real people). I guess it's residual nerd shame but, deep down, I'm not entirely sure that anybody should be taking the process of hatching dragon eggs this fucking seriously. Really, a naked woman wrapped in dragons spawned out of the ashes of her dead lover? And that remote, shit-bricking-proportioned threat you talk about? It seems to be a straight-up zombie horde. Which exists in the same universe as the naked dragon lady. Somebody somewhere should be acknowledging the silly in that concept, and nobody is.

That may well be what prevents it from getting me excited past the "yeah, it's ok" mark. The continuous geekgasm induced by everybody involved with the production taking these concepts so damn *sternly*, if that makes sense. I mean, the protagonists are called "the Starks", for God's sake.

Abso-damn-lutely. I, personally, joke with my brother about the Fast-Zombies-with-Swords. For some reason, I'm taken way back to the time when BSG was still on the air and people were shunning the show as 'good' but not 'good enough', and then came this how and everyone began lapping it when the tropes they are lauding now are kind of repeated anyways.

As a drama, it is a solid one, but it's not like it hasn't been done before. But, at the same time, I try to look at it from a glass half-full perspective. I'm just happy I'm getting a fine story and don't care too much if it isn't too ground breaking as long as it is finely crafted, and A Song of Ice and Fire definitely is expertly so.

And as for the process for taking the hatching of dragon eggs so fucking seriously, well, I'll play the contrarian here: Them Dragons are the equivalent of fucking Drones for backwards, medieval twats. I'm finally starting the third book of the series and so far people always tell the stories about how when dragons were unleashed in the battlefield as if it was some kind of reenactment of showering dudes with napalm.

I mean, jeez, imagine if you could tame Assault drones that spewed napalm and farted mustard gas. That would be pretty rad.

The concept in itself is pretty fucking silly but nevertheless fun and meaningful when taken within the context of the story. A good example would be how The Nights Watch aka The Border patrol are not supposed to have kids because of something or other having to do with fucking duty, and still it somehow carries a sense of pathos for the characters.

I just take the good with the bad and enjoy the ride.

RandV80:

This is one of those things personally I wasn't sure about. Oh their bantering was great, but it's how you put it, the two 'spymasters'. This is exactly the way it comes off in the show, but Littlefinger isn't a spymaster he's the master of coin. Sure he'll have his own spy network, but Varys is the real spymaster with knowledge that borders on black magic, and a master of disguise too boot! Littlefinger is the schemer who you give two gold coins to rub together and two more will fall out. The show sets them up as Spy vs Spy, but in the source material it's more Wall Street vs CIA. It's not that big a deal really, it just bothers me a little because having Littlefinger as a spymaster too kind of makes Varys redundant. Not only can he do The Spider's job but he's the pimp daddy of Kings Landing to boot!

While nominally Littlefinger is the Master of Coin, he certainly schemes and plots just as much, if not more than Varys. Unlike Varys, he wants to be the one in charge one day, so Littlefinger oversteps the bounds of what is strictly the domain of the master of coin. He also makes it clear that he has as extensive a spy network as Varys, or hopes to anyway, and that makes him a spymaster as much as Varys.

But this is all semantics. The real point is that their scenes together are badass.

Greg

tzimize:

Sober Thal:
A glimpse of Jaqen..... I am so pissed I have to wait for more!!!!!!

I wonder who will play the Onion Knight, and Briene the Beauty. Those are my only worries for the second season.

Great recap.... but I have to ask...

Greg Tito:
I even thought that Robert Jordan's successor did a better job keeping my interest, which sounds like blasphemy but it was true.

What does that mean?

The new books are amazing... we all know Jordan had his wife write the last few books anyways, eh?

Would you rather the series never be continued?! Or did you miss the 700 page woman's circle talk?

/half kidding

I worry about the casting of Brienne too. I'm afraid she wont be ugly enough. Brienne looks awful in my head and I'm really scared she will be prettied up for television. Like ugly betty style....ooooh shes so "ugly" in her glasses and braces and "WOW" suddenly she is beautiful!

Make her suitably ugly and mannish please. Not a sexy tomboy :<

If the brief glimpse of Maege Mormont in the last episode is any indication, I don't think they will shy from ugly girls. But then again, Tonks is Osha so I got no clue. :)

Greg

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