Honesty is the Best Poly-cy (Except When It Isnít)

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Hmmm, seriously? I think I could give better relationship advice than that. Plus it is a pretty big leap to assume all his hobbies are D&D from that question. And it doesn't take into consideration where he lives, if he lives in a small town, it could be that all the ladies are taken.

No offence meant here, as I only scanned the article. But it concerns me that the article is credited to Susan Arendt when a disclaimer at the bottom reveals it's written by Lara Crigger. Shouldn't she be given the byline credit then? Forgive me if I don't understand the Escapist's editorial policies, but that seems like it could be at least misleading.

Well this is an odd addition to the escapist content.

But I'll admit that second guy is hilarious, I want to see more freaky stories :D

This is a bit of an odd addition - and I completely agree with Sabrestar that the byline should be altered. In terms of the content itself, I can really only see this working if there is a) a firm policy of concentrating on relationship questions that intersect with the main focuses of the site (gaming/tech - i.e., find a niche); and b) enough letters of sufficient quality meeting that first requirement.

Failing that, I don't think the venture makes any sense in an internet that already has things like Dan Savage and Nerve.com.

That said, I did think the answers were fine (especially in reply to the second letter).

Thanks, everyone. The byline issue should be fixed.

bdcjacko:
Hmmm, seriously? I think I could give better relationship advice than that. Plus it is a pretty big leap to assume all his hobbies are D&D from that question. And it doesn't take into consideration where he lives, if he lives in a small town, it could be that all the ladies are taken.

As a now married guy I was just like the first guy. Had no idea where to look and my time was full of things I was doing to either stay out of the house or save money and game.

I wish someone had told me three years ago that the woman I would marry was a girl I had been playing WoW with for years.

I like this article. I am sure there are people here that would like the convenience and advice.

As to BDC, really man? You seem angry bro?

I don't think the first question was answered very carefully. For example, my University had an 8:1 male to female ratio. It didn't matter how many classes outside my major I took. It didn't make a difference how many extra curricular courses I enrolled in. It didn't matter how many salsa dances I went to; I went to suit and tie formal parties in hotel ball rooms (seriously) to dive bars that didn't even have a compelete ceiling - any girl I met and got along with had a boyfriend.

At a point you just give up.

I'm really not vibing this relationship advice, it seems shallow and artificial.

I'd advise the first guy to try online dating, might turn out that some of the girls in his area are just as shy as he is, and furthermore will allow him to meet women he knows have the same things in mind as he does, leaving none of the awkward moments when you try and work out whether or not she's actually really busy, or just avoiding you. Online dating has lost a lot of it's stigma over the recent years, and advances in technology and psychology have made it even easier to find good matches.

The second guy to work out which of the girls he wants to keep, his wife isn't happy seeing him with his girlfriend, he isn't happy seeing his wife with other men, it looks like polymony isn't working. Either he loses the wife, or he loses the girlfriend. If he chooses his wife, he could use the girlfriend as leverage to get her to become exclusive. Truth be told, if he wasn't comfortable with multiple partners, he should never have agreed to it, and his wife should never have pushed for it.

Relationships aren't about boundaries they are about mutual feelings of looking out for one another. If it comes to the point where you have to pick between letting the one you love go, or letting the one you love hurt you, the first is always the better option. Don't try to hold on to something that's already gone.

But I won't start raging until she starts telling people to "Just be themselves"... That one really annoys me.

One day after the two totally forgettable new videos by Firefilm (Drinking Games and No Right Answer), we wind up with this. Has June gotten an April Fools week that we weren't informed of?? Because frankly, none of the new series I've seen this week will be worth a second look.

Bretty:

bdcjacko:
Hmmm, seriously? I think I could give better relationship advice than that. Plus it is a pretty big leap to assume all his hobbies are D&D from that question. And it doesn't take into consideration where he lives, if he lives in a small town, it could be that all the ladies are taken.

As a now married guy I was just like the first guy. Had no idea where to look and my time was full of things I was doing to either stay out of the house or save money and game.

I wish someone had told me three years ago that the woman I would marry was a girl I had been playing WoW with for years.

I like this article. I am sure there are people here that would like the convenience and advice.

As to BDC, really man? You seem angry bro?

I'm not angry. Just saying the advice giver made some pretty big assumptions about the lonely fellow's hobbies.

itf cho:
One day after the two totally forgettable new videos by Firefilm (Drinking Games and No Right Answer), we wind up with this. Has June gotten an April Fools week that we weren't informed of?? Because frankly, none of the new series I've seen this week will be worth a second look.

QFT...
That said, a lot of new content seems to go nowhere, as the steady stream of one-season shows that have been on recently proves. (doraleous, game dogs, CMM, show about games show, a good knights quest)

It's a shame at least they can notice when things go wrong, the only thing i regret no longer being shown on the escapist is Unforgotten Realms.

Look at ladies not just as potential sex partners - that is, as a means to an end - but as worthy of friendship for their own sake.

Being friends with a woman is like being friends with a really lame guy. He whines about his fuckbuddies all the time, he doesn't like the movies you like because they have tits and blood in them, he won't help you fix your car because it will get his hands greasy and he won't help you move furniture because he is too wimpy.

There is no advantage to having women as friends but tons of disadvantage. However there are several advantages to faking a friendship. A. you might get lucky if she gets desperate or feeling bad or gets drunk enough to overlook your flaws, and B. She is likely to have female friends into whose pants you could potentially get.

The correct course of action is to pretend to care as long as it doesn't require you to make an effort.

But finding love requires putting yourself on the line a little.

Translation from woman language to English: Our culture requires men to do 100% of the work, accept 100% of the social/rejection risk, and commit 100% of the action responsibility. Accept that in order to "play the game" you need to stick your neck out for women to chop off. Because if you are asking advice you probably aren't attractive enough for any woman to even consider making the slightest bit of effort to create a relationship with you.

Flying Dagger:

QFT...
That said, a lot of new content seems to go nowhere, as the steady stream of one-season shows that have been on recently proves. (doraleous, game dogs, CMM, show about games show, a good knights quest)

It's a shame at least they can notice when things go wrong, the only thing i regret no longer being shown on the escapist is Unforgotten Realms.

I used to enjoy both Doraleous & Associates, and A Good Knights Quest. Both were much better productions, both content & concept, that any of the new stuff this week.

Flying Dagger:

I'd advise the first guy to try online dating, might turn out that some of the girls in his area are just as shy as he is, and furthermore will allow him to meet women he knows have the same things in mind as he does, leaving none of the awkward moments when you try and work out whether or not she's actually really busy, or just avoiding you. Online dating has lost a lot of it's stigma over the recent years, and advances in technology and psychology have made it even easier to find good matches.

We have to edit these questions for space, but in the original submission, the poster had said he'd tried online dating, and hadn't had any success with it. Now I wish I'd kept that line in.

Sabrestar:
No offence meant here, as I only scanned the article. But it concerns me that the article is credited to Susan Arendt when a disclaimer at the bottom reveals it's written by Lara Crigger. Shouldn't she be given the byline credit then? Forgive me if I don't understand the Escapist's editorial policies, but that seems like it could be at least misleading.

That was just a tech goof on my part. It has since been fixed.

Now this is just cruel. Starting out with an email from someone who epitomizes almost all the users of this forum, & following it with someone in a situation that every user of this forum wishes they were in.

I'm now going to eat a massive bucket of lard to get over my feelings of :foreveralone: this whatever it is has brought up.

edit: have now also learnt that Laura Crigger is an anagram of Larger Cigar, among other amusing potential combinations that further hit home the cruel joke I now feel I am, by association, the butt of.

Lara Crigger:

We have to edit these questions for space, but in the original submission, the poster had said he'd tried online dating, and hadn't had any success with it. Now I wish I'd kept that line in.

Fair enough on the first one then, I guess without full information it's hard to give judgement. Without personal experience of having an 8-1 ratio university, or living in a small town, I guess it's a bit harder to comment on someone who is struggling to find love. Though other suggestions such as taking some time out to go travelling, or perhaps even find somewhere new to live: if you really are affected by the lack of female companionship then this is always an alternative. I struggled for a long time to meet women, having most of my romantic encounters on holidays, and the only time I managed to get over this was 1. getting a job in a female dominated workplace, (though I can understand this isn't always an option) and 2. going off to uni.

rembrandtqeinstein:

Being friends with a woman is like being friends with a really lame guy. He whines about his fuckbuddies all the time, he doesn't like the movies you like because they have tits and blood in them, he won't help you fix your car because it will get his hands greasy and he won't help you move furniture because he is too wimpy.

There is no advantage to having women as friends but tons of disadvantage. However there are several advantages to faking a friendship. A. you might get lucky if she gets desperate or feeling bad or gets drunk enough to overlook your flaws, and B. She is likely to have female friends into whose pants you could potentially get.

The correct course of action is to pretend to care as long as it doesn't require you to make an effort.

Can I ask if you are incredibly masculinist or incredibly bitter? An outlook like that shows how little you understand women. I'd also like to apologise on behalf of my gender to anyone reading your rant.

Flying Dagger:

rembrandtqeinstein:

Being friends with a woman is like being friends with a really lame guy. He whines about his fuckbuddies all the time, he doesn't like the movies you like because they have tits and blood in them, he won't help you fix your car because it will get his hands greasy and he won't help you move furniture because he is too wimpy.

There is no advantage to having women as friends but tons of disadvantage. However there are several advantages to faking a friendship. A. you might get lucky if she gets desperate or feeling bad or gets drunk enough to overlook your flaws, and B. She is likely to have female friends into whose pants you could potentially get.

The correct course of action is to pretend to care as long as it doesn't require you to make an effort.

Can I ask if you are incredibly masculinist or incredibly bitter? An outlook like that shows how little you understand women. I'd also like to apologise on behalf of my gender to anyone reading your rant.

Seriously, it sounds like he got that rant from a trite stand up comic. Absolutely ridiculous.

That said, the part of his post that you didn't quote (about it seeming like guys have to take all the initiative) isn't ENTIRELY wrong. I mean, it isn't close to right either, but I can definitely see where he's coming from.

Avatar Roku:

That said, the part of his post that you didn't quote (about it seeming like guys have to take all the initiative) isn't ENTIRELY wrong. I mean, it isn't close to right either, but I can definitely see where he's coming from.

Well that's a simple case of supply and demand: if a woman is looking for a partner, and there are five that have made the effort, and one she really has to work at, she's not going to give the one that's a lot of effort a look in, as long as guys demand more than women can supply some guys are going to make this extra effort to reap the benefits.

HOWEVER I was not going to start arguing the entire idea of economics to someone who thinks friendship is having someone to watch "tit's n blood 5" with.

rembrandtqeinstein:

Look at ladies not just as potential sex partners - that is, as a means to an end - but as worthy of friendship for their own sake.

Being friends with a woman is like being friends with a really lame guy. He whines about his fuckbuddies all the time, he doesn't like the movies you like because they have tits and blood in them, he won't help you fix your car because it will get his hands greasy and he won't help you move furniture because he is too wimpy.

There is no advantage to having women as friends but tons of disadvantage. However there are several advantages to faking a friendship. A. you might get lucky if she gets desperate or feeling bad or gets drunk enough to overlook your flaws, and B. She is likely to have female friends into whose pants you could potentially get.

The correct course of action is to pretend to care as long as it doesn't require you to make an effort.

But finding love requires putting yourself on the line a little.

Translation from woman language to English: Our culture requires men to do 100% of the work, accept 100% of the social/rejection risk, and commit 100% of the action responsibility. Accept that in order to "play the game" you need to stick your neck out for women to chop off. Because if you are asking advice you probably aren't attractive enough for any woman to even consider making the slightest bit of effort to create a relationship with you.

As much as I hate the first half of this (As I am a wimpy guy that is pretty useless at moving furniture, hate to get my hands greasy, etc etc.), this is pretty true.

And to protect myself from backlash, I'm gonna state that I'm gay, and have very little interest in female relationships.

But that translation is completely true. I feel very bad for straight males who have to put up with all of this. And women call us pigs... Pigs are pretty lazy creatures. I say women resemble pigs a lot more then men do. At least in terms of having everything handed to them, and still whining all the time.

To the person who asked the second question:

Quite obviously, your wife is swinging and you are poly. The two are pretty different and can't be expected to work the same way. Poly without love is like swinging without sex, but just because she is swinging doesn't mean she understands how poly works.

Your wife seems that to have problems with you being emotional with someone else. It's not unusual, studies shows that men tend to have more problem with women having sex outside the relationship rather than being in love, while on the other hand women struggle more with the emotional aspects than the sexual ones. Not saying everyone works this way of course, but it seems to be the average. So you need to understand this isn't a double standard on her part. She wants your poly to be like her swinging (hidden, in a specific context, over when a session is done, with no attachment, with several people...) I don't know exactly the details of her swinging but it seems obvious she expects you to follow similar rules.
But you're not swinging. You're in a polyamorous relationship. And what defines polyamory is the love. A relationship can be poly and have no sex involved, but without feelings it's not poly.
But sex is an act, with a beginning and an end, while love is a feeling and it stays there. So while you're with your wife, you still love your girlfriend (an vice-versa) while when she's with you she's not having sex with her playmates.

If she wants to be completely out of your polyamory, or rather, for your polyamory to be disassociated with her, she should know it's not possible. Even if you decide to work on a primary/secondary model, where you have different "ranks" of partners and she'd be a primary one, all your partners are part of your life.
However, that doesn't mean you can neglect her, either, especially if you're under the influence of girlfriend-induced NRE.

Talk with her about how she feels and what causes her to feel that way. You can create boundaries, yes, you probably should have already, but be careful that these boundaries aren't just hiding the issues away.

I agree that you can try seeing each other away from her if that helps her, for now at least. That would make things trickier if you plan to move in together later on though, so it's more likely to be a temporary solution, especially if you don't want to end up with some kind of double life. I mean, most of my best time is spent with several partners at once, and it would be hard having to pretend like one of them isn't my partner.
But you probably have a lot invested with your wife, so the advice I would usually give (leave anyone who can't live with your being poly, as the relationship would be painful for all partners involved) has to go on the back burner here, and I would suggest you try to work things out with her and go slowly about things. The advice often is to go at the pace of the person who struggles the most (and that seems to be her, here).
Go ask on poly forums, too. A lot of people there have experience with mono/poly relationships. And she might be non-monogamous too, but she still seems monoamorous, so they should be able to help because they've been there or they've seen it before. If she is mono, every affection you have for your girlfriend might feel like less affection left for her. I'm poly too, I know that falling in love again makes me more in love with my current partners, not less, but to a mono person it seems counterintuitive because that's not how they work at all.

The bottom line is, poly has structures and rules that are common to the community, but with poly, you kind of need to find the rules for each relationship individually, and you might have neglected that step. And you need to constantly check that everyone is fine and everything is okay. It's demanding of course, the more relationships, the more work, but it's rewarding too, and when you're in love you want to make it work.

Good luck with everything. I know it's hard being the hinge when drama hits because you feel like every decision you make might end up hurting or disrespecting one (or more) of the people you love, but in the end, I've always been able to find the solution that was best for everyone, and I'm sure you can do that too.

rembrandtqeinstein:

Look at ladies not just as potential sex partners - that is, as a means to an end - but as worthy of friendship for their own sake.

Being friends with a woman is like being friends with a really lame guy. He whines about his fuckbuddies all the time, he doesn't like the movies you like because they have tits and blood in them, he won't help you fix your car because it will get his hands greasy and he won't help you move furniture because he is too wimpy.

There is no advantage to having women as friends but tons of disadvantage. However there are several advantages to faking a friendship. A. you might get lucky if she gets desperate or feeling bad or gets drunk enough to overlook your flaws, and B. She is likely to have female friends into whose pants you could potentially get.

The correct course of action is to pretend to care as long as it doesn't require you to make an effort.

But finding love requires putting yourself on the line a little.

Translation from woman language to English: Our culture requires men to do 100% of the work, accept 100% of the social/rejection risk, and commit 100% of the action responsibility. Accept that in order to "play the game" you need to stick your neck out for women to chop off. Because if you are asking advice you probably aren't attractive enough for any woman to even consider making the slightest bit of effort to create a relationship with you.

I kind of hope you're kidding about all of this, but if you're not I'm sensing more than a little angst here. I have some awesome female friends. The roommate of one of them is how I first met my fiance. And saying that our culture treats men unfairly is, um, kind of hilarious. There are double standards all over the place and nobody likes them, of course. But men have far more advantages than women.

I promise, CB: Nobody's smuggled the ladies away somewhere, stashing them in some secret volcano hideout.

Thats right, type that.
Muahahahahahahahahahaha!

You know what? This is a 100% sensible addition to The Escapist insofar as it strives to be a lifestyle e-magazine, and I'm actually completely pleased that they've decided to publish it.

I just wrote a long response, but I decided to synthesize: observation leads me to conclude that gamer-types often have difficulty getting into and staying in relationships (whether it be MF, FF, MM, or whatever, it seems to be a perennial problem for gamer-types of both genders and all orientations). Having another source of opinion - and, honestly, her advice is spot-on - is nothing but helpful to a typically relationship-challenged demographic.

I appreciate what you're doing, Lara, and I hope that this article goes over well.

I think a relationship like that has a large chance of failing anyway, not definite, but almost.

Can I ask if you are incredibly masculinist or incredibly bitter? An outlook like that shows how little you understand women. I'd also like to apologise on behalf of my gender to anyone reading your rant.

haHA, I'm fairly certain women don't understand women. Or men for that matter.
It's all subjective though.
All women, and men are different. However, there are shades of the dreaded stereotypes that can be found, no matter how unique someone is, they can be profiled within their group in one way or another.

imnotparanoid:

I promise, CB: Nobody's smuggled the ladies away somewhere, stashing them in some secret volcano hideout.

Thats right, type that.
Muahahahahahahahahahaha!

Your avatar fits that comment perfectly. I read that in Pinkie's voice.

I think this is a confident and bold move of the escapist. Quite a good one after seeing so much relationship and love questions on the forum.

I looked at the second article.

I gave a sigh.

People seem to be losing a sense of what a marriage is, and what one should do in a relationship like that. Seriously, this borders on ludicrous.

Oh, I know the intellectual hegemony here is gonna brand me as "intolerant" and "unenlightened"- but maybe I'm too idealistic to just believe marriage is about committing yourself to a partner, and sticking with it. Not sharing it out between several people.

If you don't have the commitment and will to have one marital partner, you shouldn't marry.

so... the best way to get the ladies is to be in the friend zone? hmm... interesting tactic.

...Love advice on Escapist? No thanks.

G'ahh, multi-post. See below.

Coffinshaker:
so... the best way to get the ladies is to be in the friend zone? hmm... interesting tactic.

Not quite. She's saying that one should get comfortable talking to women before one considers asking them out. A good way to do that is to befriend some. For a lot of guys, this is a critical step.

Flying Dagger:
I'm really not vibing this relationship advice, it seems shallow and artificial.

This. The idea of 'love advice' is good and all, but the actual 'advice' given seems incredibly weak. The author is trying to use it as a platform for humour and witticism instead of trying to answer in a serious manner. Or perhaps a suitable solution could not be reached and thus had to resort to suggestions as ridiculous as saving kittens from trees or joining a martial arts class. (Because you know, it's always good to beat someone up before you ask them out to dinner right?)

I have to ask what on earth makes this contributor qualified to be an authority on the subject of love beyond the simple merit of fact that she is a woman. Being a woman does not make you a guru on love. I can see this column working if it's intended as humour or parody, but not as something to be taken seriously, like Dr. Mark. Frankly i think the author should have just said outright that if you lack in social networking skills, there just isn't much hope for you - whether that's social networking in person or on facebook, because that seems to be the general consensus.

rembrandtqeinstein:

But finding love requires putting yourself on the line a little.

Translation from woman language to English: Our culture requires men to do 100% of the work, accept 100% of the social/rejection risk, and commit 100% of the action responsibility. Accept that in order to "play the game" you need to stick your neck out for women to chop off. Because if you are asking advice you probably aren't attractive enough for any woman to even consider making the slightest bit of effort to create a relationship with you.

Although the way rembrantqueinstein put this is perhaps a little bit extreme, there is merit to what s/he is saying. "putting yourself out there" generally means always being the one to make the first move, to be willing to accept rejection, to make yourself out to be above your competitors. This isn't always the case of course but from what i have seen men tend to be "disposable" and women have the pick of the litter, so to speak. They are the ones with the power to choose the partners they consider to be alpha rather than sub-par. Men have to work like dogs to appear more appealing than the rest of the competition, whether they're looking for a one night stand or a proper relationship. That really irks me.

I'm not even going to touch the second question on this column with a ten foot barge pole because i don't want to get dragged into an argument. I'll just say the whole situation is distasteful and leave it at that. In regards to the first question once more, the author should seriously take the time out to consider her readership more and not all of us have the confidence of a "charismatic stallion" and can simply show up like Captain Hammer and go "Hi there!" *cheesy smile* "Want to have dinner sometime?" *Followed by a thumbs up and sparkle of white teeth*. Some people are anxious, awkward individuals, especially members of the gaming culture in particular, and you need to be giving advice that's helpful and applicable to them, not to your well-adjusted everyman. Unless you plan on stating that unless we can become that everyman that society forces us to conform to, we will quite literally be, "Forever Alone"(.JPEG)

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