Games on Trial, Part Two

Games on Trial, Part Two

The gaming industry won a great victory today.

Read Full Article

Archon:
Publisher's Note: Games on Trial, Part Two

The gaming industry won a great victory today.

Read Full Article

Glad to see you weighing back in on this. It's really a notable victory for today. And, where tomorrow is concerned, this victory has also set a clear trajectory that will make it much harder to derail the industry's progress in the future.

Now all we need is some new electronic medium to take our place as "whipping boy," and we'll be all set!

Dastardly:

Archon:
Publisher's Note: Games on Trial, Part Two

The gaming industry won a great victory today.

Read Full Article

Glad to see you weighing back in on this. It's really a notable victory for today. And, where tomorrow is concerned, this victory has also set a clear trajectory that will make it much harder to derail the industry's progress in the future.

Now all we need is some new electronic medium to take our place as "whipping boy," and we'll be all set!

Umm let's not I'd rather my kids not go through the same BS and mental "BAN IT" torture I had to go through to have fun and be entertained.

Dastardly:

Archon:
Publisher's Note: Games on Trial, Part Two

The gaming industry won a great victory today.

Read Full Article

Glad to see you weighing back in on this. It's really a notable victory for today. And, where tomorrow is concerned, this victory has also set a clear trajectory that will make it much harder to derail the industry's progress in the future.

Now all we need is some new electronic medium to take our place as "whipping boy," and we'll be all set!

Makes you wonder what electronic medium our generation is going to throw to the fire. We can sit here and say that it won't happen, but I'm sure previous generations would have said the same thing too.

So what you are trying to say is;

I find it baffling that Califonia thought it could go the "Games are different and scary and i don't quite understand them and all those young people are playing them and should be punished!" and have a chance of winning. Even if the judges on the court were aboard the moral panic boat the law is self was so far from what could reasonably be constitutional i can't see any case in which they could have got away with passing it.

Then again new medium tend to get punished simply because an older generation has a crushing fear of the unknown (see; the beheading of the comics industry at the hands of the court) so we did have reason to hold our collective breaths. When "Violent Videogames" come up people tend to totally lose all vestages of sanity (see also; The Alan Tichmarsh Show) so it was possible that no matter how absurd and chilling the law was it could pass simply for being a way to regulate those "Evil video games"

Anyone else feel like champagne? I feel like champagne :D

shadowmagus:
Makes you wonder what electronic medium our generation is going to throw to the fire. We can sit here and say that it won't happen, but I'm sure previous generations would have said the same thing too.

Facebook. Or whatever the thing that replaces Facebook is.

Speakercone:
Anyone else feel like champagne? I feel like champagne :D

Cheers!

This is not just a victory for video games. Technology makes the possibilities for artistic expression seem endless and unpredictable. This ruling is a reaffirmation of our core values that will be used in the future to defend forms of expression that do not currently exist. Cool stuff you've never even heard of has been made possible by this ruling.

shadowmagus:

Dastardly:

Archon:
Publisher's Note: Games on Trial, Part Two

The gaming industry won a great victory today.

Read Full Article

Glad to see you weighing back in on this. It's really a notable victory for today. And, where tomorrow is concerned, this victory has also set a clear trajectory that will make it much harder to derail the industry's progress in the future.

Now all we need is some new electronic medium to take our place as "whipping boy," and we'll be all set!

Makes you wonder what electronic medium our generation is going to throw to the fire. We can sit here and say that it won't happen, but I'm sure previous generations would have said the same thing too.

My suspicion? Simulated reality, whether via helmet or "holo-deck." I mean, hell, we could already make several complaints about the extreme hazard of this technology, which would give our entertainment an unprecedented "direct line" to our brain stem...

image

I feel the image speaks better than me but i don't want to make this an image board, hence me writing this.

Dastardly:

Archon:
Publisher's Note: Games on Trial, Part Two

The gaming industry won a great victory today.

Read Full Article

Glad to see you weighing back in on this. It's really a notable victory for today. And, where tomorrow is concerned, this victory has also set a clear trajectory that will make it much harder to derail the industry's progress in the future.

Now all we need is some new electronic medium to take our place as "whipping boy," and we'll be all set!

What scares me is that it will potentially be US whipping it ...

That's good news for everybody in the industry and everybody that would enjoys the medium.

Having said that, is the ESRB going to make more of an attempt to try to enforce their own ratings? This whole nonsense started because the little kidlets could buy rated M games in the first place.

Before I get flamed, yes, I do think that it is a parent's responsibility to keep track of these things. But if the industry is doing more, then it makes us look good and we can hopefully avoid similar future shenanigans.

i thought that the original ban was to ban the selling of violent and sundry games to minors, surely that's not unconstitutional, that's just good sense. i don't get how it works on the States side of the pond, but over here in the UK, the law regarding the sale of inappropriate material to minors is quite clear, and wholly acceptable

You know what would be really great? If there was a clause in the constitution where any elected official who voted for legislation found to be unconstitutional was impeached, and if I had my way tried for treason. At the very least voting for unconstitutional legislation should be cause for civil class action so they get their asses sued off.

Because right now those cockgoblins can vote for any insane thing they want and there is no consequences to them whatsoever. Most of the time the case doesn't even make it through the courts until they are out of office.

EricBC:
That's good news for everybody in the industry and everybody that would enjoys the medium.

Having said that, is the ESRB going to make more of an attempt to try to enforce their own ratings? This whole nonsense started because the little kidlets could buy rated M games in the first place.

Before I get flamed, yes, I do think that it is a parent's responsibility to keep track of these things. But if the industry is doing more, then it makes us look good and we can hopefully avoid similar future shenanigans.

Actually, the FTC found that game retailers were more likely than any others to deny children access to adult-rated material, with an 80 percent success rate.

Still smiling. Could not be a better gift.

Not quite sure this decision has as much impact as this article states, and it might also have a little of the opposite effect on the image of gaming. Many people of the older generation view games as juvenile distractions, and advertising campaigns for games like Dead Space 2 further reinforce that image. Regardless of my own opinions on the subject, arguing that "minors should have the right to buy violent games" doesn't score any points for the medium. If anything, it further alienates the parents, who have a major impact on how children purchase and view games. Was the court decision correct? Yes. However, simply running to the court system to fix the bad law, and in essence giving parents the finger, the gaming industry has potentially dealt itself, and it's legitimacy, damage in how this situation was handled. Guess we'll see what the repercussions of this are in the coming months.

Clonekiller:
Not quite sure this decision has as much impact as this article states, and it might also have a little of the opposite effect on the image of gaming. Many people of the older generation view games as juvenile distractions, and advertising campaigns for games like Dead Space 2 further reinforce that image. Regardless of my own opinions on the subject, arguing that "minors should have the right to buy violent games" doesn't score any points for the medium. If anything, it further alienates the parents, who have a major impact on how children purchase and view games. Was the court decision correct? Yes. However, simply running to the court system to fix the bad law, and in essence giving parents the finger, the gaming industry has potentially dealt itself, and it's legitimacy, damage in how this situation was handled. Guess we'll see what the repercussions of this are in the coming months.

That's the difficulty I've seen brought forth in many non game oriented media takes on this ruling as well, both on the media side and on the layman commentary side. As opposed to seeing this ruling for what it is, it definitely is getting some spin as the Supreme Court essentially saying "Mature games should be sold to kids!" We all know that this isn't the case and, if anything, now that there is more public knowledge about the ESRB in general (thanks to this case), I see even stores more likely to follow ESRB guidelines when selling. You are quite right, however, in saying that it's pretty easy to spin this the other way.

Roboto:

Dastardly:

Archon:
Publisher's Note: Games on Trial, Part Two

The gaming industry won a great victory today.

Read Full Article

Glad to see you weighing back in on this. It's really a notable victory for today. And, where tomorrow is concerned, this victory has also set a clear trajectory that will make it much harder to derail the industry's progress in the future.

Now all we need is some new electronic medium to take our place as "whipping boy," and we'll be all set!

What scares me is that it will potentially be US whipping it ...

To be honest, I don't see it. We may decry the next generation of music as being garbage, as every generation does, but I imagine it will be our children who bring out the torches and pitchforks for a new medium. At the very least, I know that I won't be part of the scapegoat brigade. But then again, I'm already a parent and in my 30s.

Archaon6044:
i thought that the original ban was to ban the selling of violent and sundry games to minors, surely that's not unconstitutional, that's just good sense. i don't get how it works on the States side of the pond, but over here in the UK, the law regarding the sale of inappropriate material to minors is quite clear, and wholly acceptable

I'm not entirely sure, but I think the crux of it here in the States is that the government cannot carry out these kinds of bans, but private retailers can choose to enforce restrictive rules if they want. Similar for R-rated movies: there's no law saying that underage kids cannot buy a ticket for an R movie, but some theatres (not many) stop them anyway to preserve a sort of 'responsible' image.

Actually, it's kinda embarrassing that, as an American, I'm not entirely sure how these things work. Guess I better hit the books...

Archaon6044:
over here in the UK, the law regarding the sale of inappropriate material to minors is quite clear, and wholly acceptable

And that is exactly one of the reasons for the original US revolution and also that the prohibition against the government restricting speech was the first enumerated rights/amendments in the US constitution.

Because our founders did not trust the government to determent what is and isn't "inappropriate". This power would inevitably be abused by those with agendas and political power.

I even suspect that pornography prohibition would be overturned if it were taken to court today as vague, assuming the court chose to hear the case.

You can't define what is and isn't appropriate for my children, and I can't define that for you. That is my job as a parent. And I know some parents will do a lousy job but that is no reason to restrict everyone's freedom.

If you want retailers to prohibit sales to minors then fine write to their CEO, carry a sign out front of the store, and be picky about where you shop. I fully support your exercise of your consumer rights. But the moment you decided it is the job of the government to take the decision out of my hands and you support elected officials who would implement these restrictions into law you become my enemy and the enemy of all of freedom.

Memorize and repeat these simple words "I don't agree with your decision but I support your right to choose."

Clonekiller:
Not quite sure this decision has as much impact as this article states, and it might also have a little of the opposite effect on the image of gaming. Many people of the older generation view games as juvenile distractions, and advertising campaigns for games like Dead Space 2 further reinforce that image. Regardless of my own opinions on the subject, arguing that "minors should have the right to buy violent games" doesn't score any points for the medium. If anything, it further alienates the parents, who have a major impact on how children purchase and view games. Was the court decision correct? Yes. However, simply running to the court system to fix the bad law, and in essence giving parents the finger, the gaming industry has potentially dealt itself, and it's legitimacy, damage in how this situation was handled. Guess we'll see what the repercussions of this are in the coming months.

Most parents need more than the finger, they need a quick boot to the ass, and some classes on parental responsibly. Mandatory ones. Games don't corrupt children, piss poor parenting does that. That and society being fuckheads to them but we can't fix everything. If a child doesn't have a nice nonjudgmental family to fall back on, they largely will have nothing and develop a metric fuckton of issues.

We need some bloody quality control with our parenting anymore largely. Yes, the government shouldn't raise our children for us, but a lot of people anymore, NOBODY is raising their children, and that's the problem. Does a line not need to be drawn somewhere?

Speaking of which, social services needs a huge overhaul, most of them will rather give a child back to their hard drug addict mother rather than letting grandparents take the child because their house isn't immaculate... what-the-fuck!?

Personal experience( My niece) here.

I think it's important to understand why the court gave this cetori and why this decision was so strong.

It wasn't really about video games, nor will this decision effect just our industry. Make no mistake this is a landmark decision in two major issues, minor's right and freedom of speech.

What the decision effectively does is two major things.

1. It explicitly states that legislatures cannot create new unprotected forms of speech constitutionally speaking. This means that regulation of material beyond already formed legal doctrines (of which the only real content basis is obscenity which requires no redeeming value, and appealing to the most purient sexual interests). This means that regulation for violence in any media is out, as is any new criteria they might design.

2. It establishes firmly the line that obscenity for children does not include making new categories obscene. It still follows the miller test, only the community in question is different. Furthermore it explicitly states the government cannot regulate any material that isn't already unprotected speech in a discriminatory way towards minors, therefore the entire body of protections for such things applies to minors.

Make no mistake, this is a historical case and has far reaching implications.

It won't be much longer before the people who are afraid of video games are just a bit too old to be in office. I don't know whether this decision is itself the victory or the victory was already had and this decision clearly represents that.

Lazy parents of California: shut up, sit down and pay some attention to what your kid is playing. It's not the government's job to look after your wretched spawn, it's yours.

Thedek:
Most parents need more than the finger, they need a quick boot to the ass, and some classes on parental responsibly. Mandatory ones. Games don't corrupt children, piss poor parenting does that. That and society being fuckheads to them but we can't fix everything. If a child doesn't have a nice nonjudgmental family to fall back on, they largely will have nothing and develop a metric fuckton of issues.

We need some bloody quality control with our parenting anymore largely. Yes, the government shouldn't raise our children for us, but a lot of people anymore, NOBODY is raising their children, and that's the problem. Does a line not need to be drawn somewhere?

Speaking of which, social services needs a huge overhaul, most of them will rather give a child back to their hard drug addict mother rather than letting grandparents take the child because their house isn't immaculate... what-the-fuck!?

Personal experience( My niece) here.

Don't pop a blood vessel. Very true, many people totally suck at parenting. Unfortunately, the progression of society has totally torpedoed good parenting. Is it any surprise that kids grow up weird when mom & dad are never around because they work all the time, or because mom/dad up and left leaving one parent to fend for themselves? When you "liberate" people from their societal roles and responsibilities, society itself goes down the crapper, and the younger generations pay for it. Just ship the kid off to school where politically opinionated teachers will coddle them before dumping them into the real world, where they will get a low paying dead-end job for the rest of their lives, complaining about how the government should take care of them like mommy used to. (Oh yeah, and they get married and have kids of their own, playing the cycle all over again)

StriderShinryu:

That's the difficulty I've seen brought forth in many non game oriented media takes on this ruling as well, both on the media side and on the layman commentary side. As opposed to seeing this ruling for what it is, it definitely is getting some spin as the Supreme Court essentially saying "Mature games should be sold to kids!" We all know that this isn't the case and, if anything, now that there is more public knowledge about the ESRB in general (thanks to this case), I see even stores more likely to follow ESRB guidelines when selling. You are quite right, however, in saying that it's pretty easy to spin this the other way.

Doncha love the media? If there is any political gain to be made, report it that way. Screw the people it actually impacts.

I fought the law, and the law lost.
I fought the law, and the law lost.

 

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