Zero Punctuation: Infamous 2

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i really liked infamous 2 because it had a lot of stuff to do so you got easily distracted and it has one of my favorite scenes in a game one that actually made me enjoy it quite easily and i could relate to it in some way.

Huh... I didn't know Brits pronounced "St. Bernard" that way.

Not to sound like an annoying hipster but I disliked Infamous 1, so unless Infamous 2 is several times better I doubt I'll get it until it costs $20 at the bottom of a bargain bin.

I think Yahtzee raised a point that really needs to be taken into consideration more often in game design. When a moral choice is about as important as character apparel, what's the point? Developers go on and on about how they want to make the player feel engaged and challenged. Sadly, however, people don't want to be challenged. I remember how the original Fallout gave players a real incentive to be a bit of a dick by threatening them with failure if they were nice to everyone. Unfortunately, not only did it end up being a tad bit too lenient, it was the most criticized part of the game because people didn't like the idea of a time limit. Come fallout 3 and we have the ability to undo murder with two bottles of water.

But if we don't have consequences, what is the point? While binary, equal-but-opposite choices may seem sound, but it really just ends up causing people to only take the evil option if they're doing it for shits and giggles. Most of the games that I can think of that have consequences are all way too lenient. Stalker lets you give up health packs to save random people, but you get so many that it doesn't really matter. Bioshock asks you to give up a resource, but when all is said and done, you get just about as much anyway.

Until we start having real consequences in games, ones that can't simply be brushed off or undone, moral choices are no different from a part of an RPG character creator that just happens to be locked to the player until they cross an arbitrary threshold in a game. They're hats, nothing more.

The Hungry Samurai:
I'm surprised that people aren't correcting Yahtzee for assuming that evil and good I2 endings were roughly the same, when they are DRASTICALLY different.

Other than that I see his points, for the most part.

But see:

That's kinda why I didn't care for the story in this game - the choices made by my character and the story that unfolded as a result didn't feel organic, since Cole was written to be such a neutral figure. They really should ask you up front what side you want to play - since the final "choice" isn't really much of a choice at all.

Okay Yahtzee. It seems that you've got a bit of a dilemma here. You're always saying that the best games are the ones in which story and gameplay go hand in hand. But here we have a case in which the story goes hand in hand with, among other things, the f@#%ing around part of the gameplay. And now you're saying that this is NOT a good thing (despite of course the game as a whole being good)? It looks like you've got some soul searching to do. Or at the very least some explaining to do.

Thunderhorse31:

The Hungry Samurai:
I'm surprised that people aren't correcting Yahtzee for assuming that evil and good I2 endings were roughly the same, when they are DRASTICALLY different.

Other than that I see his points, for the most part.

But see:

That's kinda why I didn't care for the story in this game - the choices made by my character and the story that unfolded as a result didn't feel organic, since Cole was written to be such a neutral figure. They really should ask you up front what side you want to play - since the final "choice" isn't really much of a choice at all.

That's still a big difference compared to the 1st infamous and it's same ending with different VoiceOver endings. Yahtzee's review seemed to assume more of that. Though I agree that the choice is silly since a person can play it evil right to the end and still go for the good ending with a single button press.

Still didn't stop me from playing both games till I earned 100% of everything.

Lionhead thought they'd got moral choices right with Fable 3.... how wrong they were!

But OT I love infamous 2, and I enjoyed both the good karma play through and the evil one but I won't play it again as evil cause

Same conclusion I had after playing the game, it's quite fun but the moral choices are pointless. Either let Cole be an all out superhero or a villain, don't half ass it. The story doesn't even change until the very last mission and no matter what you're still a SORT of good guy even when playing evil as it forces you to save people several times, set up clinics, and stuff like that. And if you are a villain, none of those side characters never bother to mention how you literally suck the life out of people. Oh sure the 'good' side character Kuo gets really mad if you choose to take the evil woman's powers, but murdering dozens of innocent civilians? Doesn't phase her one bit.

Kungfu_Teddybear:

Roganzar:
Wow, that has to be the most favorable review I've seen Yahtzee do.

Except the one for Portal. But yeah I was quite surprised he actually liked it.

He loved Infamous 1.

putowtin:
Lionhead thought they'd got moral choices right with Fable 3.... how wrong they were!

While I didn't play it, I was quite impressed with what they attempted - that is balancing promises with factions and setting aggressive foreign policy. What was more "evil" - bending over backwards to people please or doing what's best, despite looking bad? There seemed to be a real dillema, though.

Of course they apparently ruined it by making Real Estate the all-saving grace or something.

GundamSentinel:
Wow, he liked it... I liked the first Infamous (at least in the sense that it was quite a bit more interesting than Prototype), but never thought the sequel could be something. Might just have to check it out.

Play it it's an awesome, well-written, electro-fire-ice extravaganza.

Oh, PS3 exclusives. How you mock me by dangling your exotic beauties in my face. And yet they don't seem enough for me to set up another mass of wiring and a big bulky box next to a TV. But then the Vita pops up like a "B"-grade English paper, with exclusives that only need inFamous to make me interested enough to surely buy. And yet I don't even know if I'd have the time to play them, seeing how little I play my PSP.
On another note, I wonder what Yatzee will have the EP on. He already railed on moral choice bollocks in the Epic Mickey ZP, its EP, and the Fable 3 ZP.

I guess i'm more the superhero type then the villain, even when i start out evil ... i finish as a good guy :S

A refference to a romanian judge! Yahtzee you racist! =P

One of the few latest reviews that made me laugh.I'm also surprised that he liked the game,that is quite rare.

AetherWolf:
Huh... I didn't know Brits pronounced "St. Bernard" that way.

Not to sound like an annoying hipster but I disliked Infamous 1, so unless Infamous 2 is several times better I doubt I'll get it until it costs $20 at the bottom of a bargain bin.

What about endless player-made custom missions through the mission creator?

Summed up in 2 words: Yahtzee approves!

Wait, today is Wednesday. Right? Why is zero punctuation early? Did I sleep though a day or something?

Anyway, I have to agree with the moral choice thing. There really isn't any choice, since they have to account for both scenarios happening.

Mojo_22:
Might give it a try.
Maybe the first one too.
Not many games that that good a review from Yahtzee.

You should definetly try both, because it is really good sandbox with superpowers, plus the story is rather neat, not without plotholes, but still.
There is only one problem, and Yahtzee already mentioned it: if you want to power-up, then you really should decide who are you going to be (good guy or bad guy, that is) even before you start playing.

To sum it up, I enjoyed my hero walkthrough and, when I will have time [read: there will be no other good games], I'll do an evil one. I don't think I will enjoy it as much though : I am just too goodey-to-shoes type of human being.

Macrobstar:

lionsprey:
Kinda disappointed he didn't notice the achievement that's really a homage/reference to his review of Infamous 1.

which one?

http://www.ps3trophies.org/game/infamous-2/trophy/31014-Don-t-Fence-Me-In.html
read the description,

lionsprey:
Kinda disappointed he didn't notice the achievement that's really a homage/reference to his review of Infamous 1.

What's it called?

The most disappointing moral choice system I've ever encountered in a game was the first Fable. Playing an evil character, I worked with bandits on quests, stole things and sold them to bandits, and was directly HIRED by bandits to do quests. With all of that, every bandit in the game would still attack me on sight. By defending myself, I received unavoidable "good" points. Secondarily, many main-quest-essential quests forced me to slaughter legions of "evil" enemies, netting me more and more good karma. I had to spend hours slaughtering innocent townsfolk just to get my alignment back to NEUTRAL.

Those situations are why I still think the only way to make a truly successful moral choice system is with factions. No universal "hero/villain" meter, just meters of how much particular groups like you. Fallout 2 made an attempt at this, and if that game hadn't been so horribly broken, I think it would have worked out pretty well. I don't play it, but from what I understand, WoW has a pretty well implemented faction system as well.

The reason no-one ever sees good moral choice systems is because the good ones aren't advertised as such - they're faction systems instead.

Was expecting him to give a positive review to this, considering he gave inFamous 1 a thumbs up.

I've been playing this game thoroughly for a week, it's been tons of fun! ^_^ And also, he's right, Sucker Punch deserves more attention.

Apparently, Yahtzee wants better writing for his life.

Good thing he didn't buy it on release otherwise he'd be upset with all the glitches the game had. Half my deaths were from Cole missing stuff and falling into the water, falling through buildings and levitating objects to only have them conflict with something and instakill me as the game tries to correct it.

Mount and Blade has a fantastic moral choice system wherein the words GOOD and BAD are not stapled over them like an amateur art display in the national art museum.

You get the choice to:
1. Ransack a village, take all their supplies and money and enslave their men to become soldiers in your army.
2. Dont ransack the village and stay low on money/supplies therfore making the game much harder for yourself.

This actually tests your morality because being good yields no reward, much like in real life. So you have to choose between dickishness & wealth, or being nice & no supplies.

Umm...

What's an arse parson?

Not G. Ivingname:
I think this is going to be his pick for game of the year.

Depends on how good Saint's Row 3 is :-P

NinjaTigerXIII:
Holy crap Batman, I think Yahtzee just said he really liked inFamous 2....I don't know how to take this. I kept waiting for him to say, "Just kidding this game is shit" but it never happened.

I thought the same thing. Except I thought maybe he would be nice the first half of the review (a nod to the moral choice system) and rain down death and destruction upon it in the second half. To be honest I'm sorely disappointed he praised it so much, when he's obliterated far better games.

Aww, it's nice to see Yahtzee gush on a game for once. So, touching ending and good writing? Who would have thought? It really seemed like a typical sandbox to me, and sandbox is not a genre that I'd usually turn to for tear-jerkers.

jmarquiso:

lionsprey:
Kinda disappointed he didn't notice the achievement that's really a homage/reference to his review of Infamous 1.

What's it called?

I think it's called "extreme makeover"

Wow, I actually completely agreed with everything he said in this video. The fact that everything about the game was great except for the whole idea of a moral choice system is something that I've been saying about this game for a while. I also completely agreed with the idea of having a choice at the beginning because it doesn't make sense for someone to be playing the good guy the whole game and then for no reason start taking all the evil missions.

One thing I'm surprised wasn't brought up was the strange voice actor change (the new Cole is actually the guy who played Ellis in Left 4 Dead 2) that threw me right out of the story at first.

jmarquiso:

AetherWolf:
Huh... I didn't know Brits pronounced "St. Bernard" that way.

Not to sound like an annoying hipster but I disliked Infamous 1, so unless Infamous 2 is several times better I doubt I'll get it until it costs $20 at the bottom of a bargain bin.

What about endless player-made custom missions through the mission creator?

It's still the same gameplay, and platforming in Infamous 1 was hell. Did Cole lose his superglue-covered limbs?

Anchupom:

Roganzar:
Wow, that has to be the most favorable review I've seen Yahtzee do.
I kept waiting for the big turd covered other shoe to drop and the worst it gets is that the moral choice system still sucks, (s shoe just not turd covered).

Go watch the orange box. THAT is the most favourable review Yahtzee has ever done. Sort of.

and the one for Painkiller was probably a bit more positive than this, but I reckon this one comes third after those two.

Edit: Correction. Infamous 2 comes fourth after Orange Box, Painkiller and Saint's Row 2

AetherWolf:

jmarquiso:

AetherWolf:
Huh... I didn't know Brits pronounced "St. Bernard" that way.

Not to sound like an annoying hipster but I disliked Infamous 1, so unless Infamous 2 is several times better I doubt I'll get it until it costs $20 at the bottom of a bargain bin.

What about endless player-made custom missions through the mission creator?

It's still the same gameplay, and platforming in Infamous 1 was hell. Did Cole lose his superglue-covered limbs?

I have no idea personally, but it's a valid question to ask.

On the other hand, I have a PC, so no way I can play this game. It sounded fun both times though.

Mojo_22:
Might give it a try.
Maybe the first one too.
Not many games that that good a review from Yahtzee.

The first one is unbelievably pretty fun, and this is coming from someone who hated the demo.

OT: I am shocked, shocked that Yahtzee had such few criticisms for Infamous 2, but when the last game you played was Duke Nukem Forever, playing in the toilet from Saw would probably be more fun, I assume.

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