Jimquisition: Linearity versus Replayability

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Liking this show more and more each week

Warlord Timmy:

Kahunaburger:

Warlord Timmy:

>missing the entire point of the video

That video barely had a point. He was saying that linear games can have replay value if they're worth replaying - i.e., replay value = replay value. Wow, video game journalism at its finest!

So you're all mad and snarky because he said something that made sense?

What he was getting at was that majority of the gaming industry believes that adding multiplayer gives a game more replay value than making a quality singleplayer, and that this isn't entirley true.

I ain't even mad - just disappointed. He's actually a good writer on Destructoid, but seems to prefer to go for the low-hanging fruit on Jimquisition. It's easy to make an argument that makes sense without having it be completely milquetoast - just look at Extra Punctuation, Extra Credits, or even some of Jim's Destructoid articles.

So he showed NSMBW as an example but didn't wasn't NSMBW designed around the multiplayer mode and isn't that multiplayer mode irritating as all hell? Doesn't that game fit the "it didn't need multiplayer" mold? Well, atleast not simultaneous multiplayer.

TheFPSisDead:
Am I immature because i laughed at "Cunt Mushroom"? :-P

If you are, then I am too :)

Le *sigh*

I've played and replayed many of the same games Sterling mentions, and hell yes, I'm all for devs putting their time and effort into making good, solid single-player campaigns with tightly written stories and deep, enjoyable gameplay. Heaven knows it can be hard enough finding a handful of people to play a multiplayer game with, let alone people who will be enjoyable to play a multiplayer game with, without the game you're trying to find those players for being Cooking Mama 6: Decorative Frosting Cannon Free-For-All.

But I really don't feel this kind of vitriol is remotely warranted for people who feel they get more out of their games for having multiplayer or multiple endings or New Game+ modes. When all is said and done, this is a matter of taste and opinion, not something that one can simply sneeringly say "you're wrong" about without looking like a total wanker.

It's fair to point out to people with this mindset if they demanded multiplayer in Bioshock 2 and then griped about it or never played it; it's certainly not unreasonable to wonder if the inclusion of multiplayer diverts resources that would have been better allocated to the "real" game if such seems to have been the arrangement. But while we're on the subject, we might spare a thought to the developers who decided to spend their time and money that way, and recognize that there are other factors in play than just a certain kind of message board complainer. Extending gameplay by these mean is also one more hedge against the bugbear of the used games market, and in the case of multiplayer one more excuse to get players online, and thus one more way to collect information about the player base.

More thinking, less sneering, Jim.

Uhh, well I agree.

...

Except I have never once heard someone say a game lacked replay value due to linearity.

Next week: the sky is actually blue!

you consider a sonic ripoff a clasic..... no i understand why you gained such ego.

Metro 2033 was a brilliant and criminally overlooked game because like a good film it had great progression and atmosphere.

You basically could have just showed a copy of SotC for 5 minutes and made the same point.

Metro last light will get MP? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! It doesn't need one. It was one of the best game last year because it have such a good sp.

Good episode, even though it was rather obvious. Also, cuntmushroom is now my new favorite word for this week.

I won't thank God for you Jim, but I will thank God for that lavalier mic you got. I was getting rather annoyed with the occasional audio drops.

I love playing The original metal gear soild. My only complaint is how hard the final boss was it made playing through it a pain.

i totally agree, iam still playing the original mario on the GB and i wasted so many hours on [prototype], heavy rain and manhunt 1 & 2

Phlakes:
I want to see a CoD game that has no competitive multiplayer, then it can go back to the awesome campaigns from 2 and 4.

I... what... you...

*aneurysm*

...

You do realize that 2 and 4 both had multiplayer right? Like, hugely successful multilplayer... right?

OT: I don't mind when games have strong single player and multiplayer portions (like Halo or Gears, etc.), but like Jim I find it maddening when devs pump out a sequel to a single player game/story that has tacked on multiplayer. Seriously, why?

Why?

We already have enough MP games competing for our time, so when a new Bioshock/Dead Space/Resident Evil game comes out, chances are I'm buying it for the story/atmosphere/characters, and not for some hypothetical derivative skirmish mode that NO ONE will be playing in 3 weeks.

Stick with crafting a memorable narrative, and don't water it down. :)

I remember replaying Breath of Fire 3 & 4 quite a lot. Hard to argue with this. I think Multiplayer is a business thing a lot of times. Games like Modern Warfare 2 have become blockbuster hits almost entirely due to multiplayer, so it's an appealing addition for any investors who want to see decent returns. Replayability through multiplayer and the social pressure to keep pace with friends can help drive the purchase of DLC. Even though it doesn't really make sense for all games, I don't mind it if the core game is still solid. Unless the multiplayer is really fun and attracts a lot of players, I don't want to sense any compromises in the single-player experience.

Vaco Deus:
I agree with this video 1000%. I'm sick of developers catering to the ADD generation and shoehorning multiplayer into games that don't need.

Dead Space 2. Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood, etc. It takes away time and resources from the single player for an aspect of the game that will be dead within 6 months to a year and you're left with a SP that is a pathetic 4-6 hours long.

Wait wasn't Brotherhood praised for a good long SP and a good Multi?

MacNille:
Metro last light will get MP? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! It doesn't need one. It was one of the best game last year because it have such a good sp.

Well their other games: STALKER all had multi, and those games were longer then Metro.

I really liked his point this week- and he doesn't irritate me as much as he once did- but please tone down the gimmick, and childish name calling. These distract from, rather than enhance, the overall experience.

You entirely forgot about Achievements and Trophies, Jim, therefore your argument is invalid.
Seriously,though, that Jimquisition was thoroughly agreeable and as such, not nearly as brutal as anything invoking the Spanish Inquisition should be.
It's enough to make one suspect that you're going soft!

What, no mention of the most "I want to replay that" game of all time, Deus Ex? You fail good sir. You fail hard.

Jim, you got my 100% backup on this one!

I was a little bit sad cause Steam Summer Camp ended (thankfully) but this episode totally cheers me up, spotting on the mark what is wrong with with gamers who donīt have a clue what replayability means and tech jerks that put great games down because the FSAA is not state of the art in 2011.7 anymore, or similar irrelevant shit.

Esp. the body language totally fits the presentation.

DigitalAtlas:
Finally! Tired of having this argument with people. Now I can just send them to this video. That also insults them!

I too have tired of arguing with people about this, so finally I too can redirect them to this video.

OP: Thank you Jim! I couldn't agree more. I have always tired in the arguments with people who seem to think everything would be better or can only be played more often if it has some form of multiplayer mode etc. You even used the examples I love to use such as the how one can reread a book with out have to have something like a co op reading, and how you can rewatch movies. Thank you again Jim.

FF9 love! RPGs are a great example of non-multi replay value. Running through a game without healing, or magic, or if it's an action game leveling up. Good times.

You do know that your suppose to laugh at his over the top elitist asshole persona. His pretty much a caricature of how the common man sees critics and other supposed elitist assholes. I mean how can people take him so serious when he says stuff like"Your brain is mental" and not laugh at how ridiculous his persona is in his video. He is a satire in snobby elitist asshole that think there opinion are the law that there fan most follow or they are just dumb moron that don't understand there greatness. In his newer videos he has crank it up to eleven to make it easier on people to see that his persona is caricature to be mock for how he think is clever witty and charming when is obvious he is not. Which fit perfectly with his character as sadly many people think that are so clever and think they understand sarcasm and irony when in truth they have no what so ever. I guess is true what they say great satire is pretty much unrecognizable from what is mocking or some shit like that.

Is Awesome Possum actually good?

Thank you Jim, for putting the argument in a suitable framework of insults, sarcasm and insight! I personally enjoy your persona as I'm not a knuckle-dragging man ape, so let the haters choke on hate and do your thing, my brother from another mother!

you replayed portal?
its a puzzle game..why would you want to play a puzzle game, if you already know all the awnswers?

I guess i wouldnt say that a game will get replay value just by being good. I personally do not see the point in playing a linear game again, which i enjoyed mainly for its atmosphere or its story - There a lots of good games/movies and books out there, that i havent tried yet

A game doesnt have to have replayable value to be good, though.
Im okay with playing it just once, as long as it is a great expirience

Awesome point, ive played the prince of persia sands of time like 15 times and it's basically a straight line from beginning to end but its the story that you come back for
the bioshock multiplayer is ok but it's really not vital and more content like the main game or minerva's den would have been better

Is it me or his delivery of irony is better?

The old score systems some games have scream replay Value. get a high score
MAKE IT HIGHER to me that's work for some of the sillier games, that are trying to use humour.

If you hadn't bashed The Witcher 2 then I would fucking love you man.

As it is I like you in a purely platonic way. Also, kudos for the Joe Abercrombie reference. Excellent author.

No shit Jim.

I disagree. I like games having multiplayer. I like getting online in a new game, such as Bioshock 2, and playing with my friends. Guess that makes me a cunt-mushroom?

In my eyes the length of the game and the quality decides if it has replay value. A game such as Oblivion can be enjoyed over and over because it's a massive game where you can always be doing something different. A game like Hunted: Demons Forge, which is short, and of bad quality does not have replay value.

Also I want to point out that you mentioned films, books and music as something that have replay stupid, yet I think that argument is flawed. All of these are much cheaper than the price of games, so people expect games to have replayability and to entertain them longer. I can read a book and finish it then come back to it 6 months later and repeat the cycle. With a game however I am going to remember certain parts, so I won't enjoy the second playthrough AS MUCH, as I already know what is going to happen. Not such a big deal with a Ģ5 book, but with a Ģ40 game, I expect something a bit different. Again Oblivion solves this through it's size, in which I can always do something different.

Besides, adding multiplayer to games can sometimes be very rewarding. The Assassins Creed multiplayer was great, as it was something new and different.

But then I know the escapist is very heavily single player based, so I know I won't have many people agreeing with me.

Yeah, this is why I'm happy that Volition has given up on competitive multiplayer for Saints Row the Third and is just focusing on the single player and co-op. The MP in Saints Row 1 and 2 both sucked and I never bothered with them for more than a day or two. I've replayed both games for the single player though, because they are fun.

Now if only Naughty Dog would take a hint.

uberhippy:
Eg: crowning Jem of my childhood, Rachet & Clank, the charming wonder of Insomniac games has been inclining more and more to multiplayer & hub-based cheap thrills instead of the happily explorative, richly comediac, FUN single player joy. (don't get me started on all 4 one)

I miss Rachet and clank :,(

U mad, bro? Ratchet and Clank are "gone" and you "miss them" because All 4 One has constant co-op available? Yes, certainly. I know my copies of Tools of Destruction and A Crack in Time vanished from my shelf as soon as All 4 One was announced, damn you All 4 One!! Oh wait.

image

You're getting better Jim,you're getting better.
To think that all the way back at the first episode,people were harkening to burn you on the stake...you're gonna go far kid.

Lol, so everyone is on Jim's side all of the sudden?

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