Escapist Podcast: 010: SOE Fan Faire and Day 1 DLC

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010: SOE Fan Faire and Day 1 DLC

This week, we talk about Day 1 DLC. Greg Tito reports on his trip to the SOE Fan Faire, and we answer some of your questions.

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I have ahard time veiwing these vids just stop 1 to 3 minutes in only seems to fully play if the addvert doesnt start.

He did you guys stop answering my questions? I was looking forward to answers.

Still unable to download.

I had a bit of a stutter myself when listening to it, but other than that, it was pretty damn funny.

So, how long until you guys decide to pick a random escapist and Skype them in for a bit?

How do you folks feel about locked DLC on a disc that you get?

Yes, it was Samuel Jackson who ruined your childhood memories Steve, not Fishburne ;)

Some random comments:

I wonder if yuplay.ru will sue Ubisoft's Uplay for name infringement ...probably not.

I've been blaming Doom 3 since before it even came out. :)

The economic downturn has long ended.

The podcast is not too long. I listen to it while catching up with my RSS feeds for the end of the week.

Backgrounds are a huge part of many games. For all their wonderful storytelling, Mass Effect would not be the outstanding games they are without the art. Also, I disagree that graphics are already good enough. Engine and graphics card demos still look mesmerizing. Graphics have a very long way to go. For example: global illumination and raytracing are only being done in very limited ways and accomplished with tons of hacks.

Oh man. I smiled when Susan mentioned JGR. Great example. I miss the days when I could be just as happy listening to a game's music as I was from actually playing. I think it's kind of a shame that so many games have lost that magic.

And, I don't think it's just a matter of, I don't know, nostalgia or me getting older or anything. A year or so ago, a friend of mine played a Castlevania medley of sorts on his violin over Skype and that alone was enough to convince me to go play the original NES game. Hell, I spent the better part of my walk to/from the store today trying to properly whistle boss songs from Mega Man 2. And I've never even played it.

There's just something different about the music today. I really don't know what it is.

You know the music that plays when the video starts? Where can I get it?

There's a link to Ian's webpage, but I can't find that exact song. I'll even pay if I had to!

P.S. You guys should call this "The Escape Pod" LOL

Man it took so long to remember my password i forgot what i was gonna say....

no wait!

That megaman (2?) remix fits alot better as pause music than that other weird thing you usually play, please keep using this instead!

vxicepickxv:
I had a bit of a stutter myself when listening to it, but other than that, it was pretty damn funny.

So, how long until you guys decide to pick a random escapist and Skype them in for a bit?

How do you folks feel about locked DLC on a disc that you get?

Sometimes that stutter is when two copies of the movie open at once. It happens to me a lot when they have the movie play as the popup. Just try closing the top popup, you close the top copy of the movie but the second that was underneath still plays.

Kind of a chauvinistic view of DLC from a developer's standpoint. The explanation they gave actually confirms the stereotype they derided as ignorant; developers create content that could go out with the disc but is withheld to be sold as DLC.

On the point I want to say the following: I was on board with that "graphics don't matter" wave up until I played The Witcher 2. That game is so breath taking that I must admit my soft spot for good graphics and good graphic design. The facial animations are crap BUT environments, backgrounds and models are stunning. Since then I must admit that good graphics can help greatly to help deepen the experience with games.

The podcasts are sounding good, something that might be an interesting topic is advertising on the Escapist. A lot of forum users are angry about the changes in advertising that have come about lately, maybe you could even throw Kross in there to talk about the ReCaptcha systems and whatnot.

Glad they finally fixed the music.

Eh, I don't really agree with a lot of what you were saying regarding DLC. I find it hard to see your comparison between the bonus editions of movies/DVD's and the DLC of games, as these are two different medium and two entirely different scenarios. Yes, bonus editions of movies do cost more, but it's usually just a bit more, here in America the standard is for a 20 dollar movie the bonus edition is 25-30, meaning a 25-50 percent markup. For DLC, if you buy the game at the full price of 60 dollars, buying the DLC can mark up upwards of 50%, around 30 dollars for maybe a few DLC or some 15 dollar map packs, or it can be upwards of 100% or more, like with games such as Dragon Age Origins. Paying an extra 10 dollars is not seen as a huge deal, the amount seems worth the extras. However, the amount of 30-60 dollars for more content, resulting in a game costing, for the 100% experience, being upwards of 90 dollars to 120 dollars, is quite a lot of money, thus the amount of griping you get about DLC exists. 90 dollars for a game is far too much money, I get that they are a luxury, but during this economic downturn and people being far more selective with their disposable income spending that much money on a game is just becoming less and less feasible.

I also don't get your argument about people being entitled to things supporting one argument yet disregarding it for another. For example, you said that it was not okay for gamers to expect content to be on the game, especially when it came to DLC, since it was considered extra content that didn't take away from the main storyline and gameplay experience (most of the time). However, at the same time, you used gamers expectations about multiplayer to reinforce your argument against the Ubisoft pay to play online experience.

It makes no sense to use people's expectations about games to support your argument in one instance and then use it to defame your opponents in another argument. For day 1 DLC, people EXPECT that the content that is being released on day 1 for extra money should be on the disc due to it not making any sense, in the minds of people, to pay full price for a game and then to have to pay more in order to get 100% of the game. Likewise, some people DONT expect multiplayer to be in a game, and Ubisoft could certainly use that as an incentive to charge for online access for a game and some people would see it as a nice bonus. Not to attack you personally, but it doesn't look good when you put yourself in a situation like this, both railing against and supporting an aspect of an argument depending on whether or not it fits your argument at the time.

My opinion on the spoiler issue:

I agree with almost everything they said on spoilers, however I feel that the issue with "the song of ice and fire" series and talking about the other 4 books would be rather unfair in that many people ( myself included) did not know the series existed until I first saw episode 1 of the HBO series. And I am actively reading the series but I feel that when a revival for a series comes ( you mentioned Harry Potter) I was done reading the last book within a week of its release but that does not mean I talk about it around my mother, because I know she has only EVER read the first book and has since only seen the films. And so as far as "The Song of Ice and Fire" series is concerned I would request a reasonable amount of time to allow people who have recently discovered the series to catch up before spoilers ensue.

mcnally86:

vxicepickxv:
I had a bit of a stutter myself when listening to it, but other than that, it was pretty damn funny.

So, how long until you guys decide to pick a random escapist and Skype them in for a bit?

How do you folks feel about locked DLC on a disc that you get?

Sometimes that stutter is when two copies of the movie open at once. It happens to me a lot when they have the movie play as the popup. Just try closing the top popup, you close the top copy of the movie but the second that was underneath still plays.

I never noticed any popups, because the player was the only tab for the only window I had up at the time.

Fantastic show. I enjoy these podcasts; hearing about people talking about the industry is really interesting. :)

I feel like this is as good a forum as any to ask this question, while I have Russ Pitts and crews attention.

As internet magazine content publishers, how does the Escapists decide what content stays and what goes? For example, there are/were two shows that come to mind that I found hard pressed to find anyone that enjoyed them. I'm thinking about Game Dogs[em] and [em]Jim Inquisition.

Now I am the sort of viewer that doesn't watch what I don't enjoy. I do not feel compelled to watch or read everything on the site. I gave Game Dogs a chance, but after two or three episodes, it didn't appeal, so I stopped watching. I would however keep seeing forum posts of people crying for the cancellation of Game Dogs, and the shock of it being green lit for a 2nd season. Then there's Jim, which offended** me right out the gates, that I didn't just stop watching his shows, I avoided all content where Jim was involved. Again, I would see forum posts like, "how much do you hate Jim Inquisition?"

The perplexing nature of people not being able to avoid content that doesn't appeal, and whiny entitlement issues aside; when content forum threads are filled with very little positive feed back, how much does this effect managements decision to keep that content around?

Thanks for the great work, not just on the podcast, but the show in general. :) Cheers and keep up the good work everyone.

First I'm loving the podcast, keep it up!!

I don't like the DLC concept mainly because when I buy a game I want all of the game... its gotten to the point where if I expect a game will have DLC I will not buy it until there is a GOTY or similar "complete pack" that bundles all of the DLC with the main game. This doesn't benefit the publisher because the are actually getting less money from me, as the "complete pack" is usually cheaper than the release game.

Plus I dont like the idea that I pay money to buy a game and then have to pay more money to get the full experience of the game, why I buy a game i'm making a value judgement that does not factor in DLC cost, DLC is just an underhand tactic for getting more money from the consumer at usually exorbitant rates for what you actually get in the content. Its exploitation pure and simple.

Regarding the price of game not having risen for a long time despite inflation, well you forget that the economics of the computer games industry has changed dramatically in that same space. This may come as a shock but if your customer base expands you can sell your product for less and still make the same profit (per sale that is)... elementary cost accounting, the more you sell the less each item costs to make as the fixed cost is being spread over more sales.

As for spoilers... a spoiler is always a spoiler, even 100 years after the event. Anna karenina was spoiled for me by the film "I really hate my job" which needlessly splurged the ending. There is no point at which it is ok give a spoiler for entertainment media without prior warning, that will always be a dick move.

I love the podcasts, Id have them longer if I could :) I listen to them while I work aswell :)

If I recall correctly the Uplay Online Pass comes with all games that are bought new, it's only not included if you buy the game used.

Good podcast, but shorter than normal. What the hell? You gypped me! :)

Ah, spoilers. I was once told off by someone for spoiling the end of a 10-to-15 year old game. Really. A game so old it was impossible for anyone new to the game to play it without buying second-hand hardware or resorting to emulation. And I apparently "ruined the end" for some people. WHAT PEOPLE?

Don Reba:
The economic downturn has long ended.

*Glances at job ads.* Could someone tell my industry that?

vxicepickxv:

mcnally86:

vxicepickxv:
I had a bit of a stutter myself when listening to it, but other than that, it was pretty damn funny.

So, how long until you guys decide to pick a random escapist and Skype them in for a bit?

How do you folks feel about locked DLC on a disc that you get?

Sometimes that stutter is when two copies of the movie open at once. It happens to me a lot when they have the movie play as the popup. Just try closing the top popup, you close the top copy of the movie but the second that was underneath still plays.

I never noticed any popups, because the player was the only tab for the only window I had up at the time.

That is why it too me a while. to notice. They are in browser popups. like when the extra adds around the outside of the video appear. That is what I mean.

Don Reba:
Some random comments:

I wonder if yuplay.ru will sue Ubisoft's Uplay for name infringement ...probably not.

I've been blaming Doom 3 since before it even came out. :)

The economic downturn has long ended.

The podcast is not too long. I listen to it while catching up with my RSS feeds for the end of the week.

Backgrounds are a huge part of many games. For all their wonderful storytelling, Mass Effect would not be the outstanding games they are without the art. Also, I disagree that graphics are already good enough. Engine and graphics card demos still look mesmerizing. Graphics have a very long way to go. For example: global illumination and raytracing are only being done in very limited ways and accomplished with tons of hacks.

Maybe in your country, but sure as hell not in the United States.

Formica Archonis:

Don Reba:
The economic downturn has long ended.

*Glances at job ads.* Could someone tell my industry that?

Eri:
Maybe in your country, but sure as hell not in the United States.

There are multiple opinions about it, but the banks have repaid the bailout, the auto industry is growing, high-tech is doing great, the gaming industry is booming. The country is not in a boom phase overall, but the bust phase bottomed out in 2009 and mostly ended in 2010.

My country is Canada, by the way. Canadian banks are disciplined and regulated, but the economy is strongly tied to the US.

vxicepickxv:
How do you folks feel about locked DLC on a disc that you get?

Wanted to ask this too, because I feel like you missed the point about people arguing against Day 1 DLC a bit.

Day 1 DLC is always annoying, but what is blatant money grabbing, and what makes people bring out the torches is content that was completed when the game went to print, and is actually in the disc. Then you buy the DLC and its only a 50kb file that unlocks the content that was in the disc already.

I understand dlc that was worked on after the game went to print, and happened to be ready at launch, but if it is already in the disc, they have no right to charge us extra for it.

That's what I think is wrong about dlc nowadays.

Rayansaki:

vxicepickxv:
How do you folks feel about locked DLC on a disc that you get?

Wanted to ask this too, because I feel like you missed the point about people arguing against Day 1 DLC a bit.

Day 1 DLC is always annoying, but what is blatant money grabbing, and what makes people bring out the torches is content that was completed when the game went to print, and is actually in the disc. Then you buy the DLC and its only a 50kb file that unlocks the content that was in the disc already.

That's what I think is wrong about dlc nowadays.

Exactly, because if they weren't wasting resources making that DLC during the games development cycle then they would of had those same resources availiable to just put the content into the full game anyway... So what is day 1 DLC other than a cynical money grab?

Also on a more general note, I do worry that perhaps DLC is leading the core game to be watered down, I believe you can only go so far down the road of spending time and effort designing DLC without the main game suffering. After all, if the main game is fully fleshed out then there is less need for the player to buy the DLC right?

Where can I download this?

DLC is a rip off for the most part, day one DLC is especially bs. 10 years ago we have games with just as much content and they don't need a DLC to break even. They are cutting out contents from the game as day 1 DLC. I haven't bought any DLC for any game so far, and I will keep avoiding buying it unless there's something game breaking that I need from the DLC.

Stuntkid:
You guys should call this "The Escape Pod" LOL

We thought of that. Name's already taken. :(

So you find it fine to sell single player day one story DLC but not multiplayer, darm I know the escapist values gameplay over story but too openly call people out that they are entitled for not liking that the story in games spilt up and at the same time complain companies that do it too multiplayer seems a hypocritical at best.

Always nice to hear someone else calling out far too many gamers for being whiny entitled brats.

DLC is a bit of an interesting topic, and I think we're seeing a bit of a backlash to the sort of regularly released downloadable content that I actually consider to be the best sort. There seem to be a lot of people, at least here on the Escapist, who claim they will be waiting for the inevitable "GOTY" version of a game knowing it will not only be cheaper but will also include the entire DLC roster in a complete package. I don't tend to get into much DLC (I'm generally the sort that will buy and play the main game, complete it and then move on, leaving any future DLC unpurchased) but this could throw a bit of a wrench into developers DLC plans if it's not just a vocal minority talking. I could potentially see developers relying more on the totally optional yet often totally valueless sorts of DLC to compensate, which would be a bad thing for those who do like to extend their playing experiences.

StriderShinryu:
Always nice to hear someone else calling out far too many gamers for being whiny entitled brats.

DLC is a bit of an interesting topic, and I think we're seeing a bit of a backlash to the sort of regularly released downloadable content that I actually consider to be the best sort. There seem to be a lot of people, at least here on the Escapist, who claim they will be waiting for the inevitable "GOTY" version of a game knowing it will not only be cheaper but will also include the entire DLC roster in a complete package.

I'm actually waiting for that for Dragon Age 2. Yeah, I've heard about all the boring environment copy pasting, but I'm still eager to experience the characters. And if it doesn't have the DLC all lumped into one, the savvy consumer in me will turn it down.

Blazingdragoon04:
Eh, I don't really agree with a lot of what you were saying regarding DLC. I find it hard to see your comparison between the bonus editions of movies/DVD's and the DLC of games, as these are two different medium and two entirely different scenarios. Yes, bonus editions of movies do cost more, but it's usually just a bit more, here in America the standard is for a 20 dollar movie the bonus edition is 25-30, meaning a 25-50 percent markup. For DLC, if you buy the game at the full price of 60 dollars, buying the DLC can mark up upwards of 50%, around 30 dollars for maybe a few DLC or some 15 dollar map packs, or it can be upwards of 100% or more, like with games such as Dragon Age Origins. Paying an extra 10 dollars is not seen as a huge deal, the amount seems worth the extras. However, the amount of 30-60 dollars for more content, resulting in a game costing, for the 100% experience, being upwards of 90 dollars to 120 dollars, is quite a lot of money, thus the amount of griping you get about DLC exists. 90 dollars for a game is far too much money, I get that they are a luxury, but during this economic downturn and people being far more selective with their disposable income spending that much money on a game is just becoming less and less feasible.

I also don't get your argument about people being entitled to things supporting one argument yet disregarding it for another. For example, you said that it was not okay for gamers to expect content to be on the game, especially when it came to DLC, since it was considered extra content that didn't take away from the main storyline and gameplay experience (most of the time). However, at the same time, you used gamers expectations about multiplayer to reinforce your argument against the Ubisoft pay to play online experience.

It makes no sense to use people's expectations about games to support your argument in one instance and then use it to defame your opponents in another argument. For day 1 DLC, people EXPECT that the content that is being released on day 1 for extra money should be on the disc due to it not making any sense, in the minds of people, to pay full price for a game and then to have to pay more in order to get 100% of the game. Likewise, some people DONT expect multiplayer to be in a game, and Ubisoft could certainly use that as an incentive to charge for online access for a game and some people would see it as a nice bonus. Not to attack you personally, but it doesn't look good when you put yourself in a situation like this, both railing against and supporting an aspect of an argument depending on whether or not it fits your argument at the time.

Yea.
It seems that lately many gamers like to just say that those they disagree with have an overinflated sense of entitlement and that alone wins their argument. It doesn't work like that.
I personally don't have anything against dlc as a concept but it's usually overpriced and only meagerly expands a game that didn't have $60 worth of content to begin with.

The fact is that the game industry has been pulling out a lot of predatory practices and seem more inclined to try and hype/trick gamers out of their money rather than earning that money with great products and/or services. This has hurt the industry overall: most of the ps2 owners I know never moved on to the 360 or ps3.

Also if we were still seeing more games with that San Andreas amount of content on the launch disc, I think we would also hear fewer arguments against dlc. However, the amount of content seems to be shrinking.

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