Escape to the Movies: Captain America

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GrizzlerBorno:
I'm gonna go ahead and presume that all that praise for "portraying Captain america as a no-irony, perfect, american good guy"....is a very distinctly American viewpoint. I just wanna know if Non-americans will hate it (or at-least find it overratedly cheesy/ corny/ cliched/ dumb) as much as I think they will.....

But atleast it's a good film so I'll have fun whilst finding out.

Same here man.

The fact that the movie will at least entertain you judging by the amount of action means I will probably go see it when it hits theatres. If nothing else I will walk out of the theatre having watched a good superhero action movie.

Though I am holding my praise in check until I actually see it. Just being a good action movie does not earn you praise from me. I paid for a ticket to be entertained. So succeeding to do so is not something to pat yourself on the shoulder over.

My main concern is that being non-American, I just won't get the same connection seeing as I never read a single comic book or seen a single cartoon with Captain America in it. At most I have watched some reviews about bad Captain America movies. This will be pretty much the first form of media I see Captain America in where he is not being ridiculed by a guy sitting in a chair in front of a camera.

Plus, American patriotism might not seem douche baggy from an American point of view, but that doesn't mean it will sit well foreign audiences.

I mean come on America is the only country on earth having made songs about how they will save everyone and everything. You never see Belgium or Norway strum the guitar singing about how great they are compared to the rest of the world.

So basically what you're telling me is...

the movie sucked?

No, seriously, glad to here it came out well. I'm looking forward to seeing this movie sometime.

Pretty much everything I thought while watching this, Bob has stated outright. In otherwords...

GO WATCH THIS MOVIE

image

Zeitgeist1983:
Sounds interesting... But will anyone care outside America?

Since about 1/4 of the posts before yours were complaining that it wasn't out yet (they aren't in the US) I'd say it has caught the interest of people outside the US. Comic nerdom is an international thing :)

Great super hero movie, pretty bad Captain America movie. It wasn't nearly douchebag-y enough. In a movie called Captain America, I kind of want to see some "gar I love America" antics. I mean, they couldn't even have the Cap fight nazis because nazis might offend somebody. By the time the crazy action scenes picked up, I was already lost.

I am surprised that Bob didn't mention some of the choppy directing towards the end, like when that montage of Captain America and his friends beating up Hydra came out of nowhere.

Aiddon:
meh, still not interested. Marvel's films have been painfully lackluster ever since Iron Man 2 was revealed to be a directionless bore due to Marvel being far too much in love with the Avengers.

And no Bob, the Avengers is not working. Hate to break it to ya, but not explaining something in a movie with the hand-waving of "oh, it was explained in ANOTHER movie!" is unacceptable. Films will never be comics and your love of comics refuses to admit that. Here's an analogy: this is like if they had a vitally important scene for a comic mini-series explained in a tie-in issue without TELLING YOU.

They do that a lot.

I guess there are only two concerns in my mind.
1) Will I, a European, "get" the patriotism of this movie?
2) Will Harry Potter and Cars 2 destroy it at the box office?

InterAirplay:

Aiddon:
meh, still not interested. Marvel's films have been painfully lackluster ever since Iron Man 2 was revealed to be a directionless bore due to Marvel being far too much in love with the Avengers.

And no Bob, the Avengers is not working. Hate to break it to ya, but not explaining something in a movie with the hand-waving of "oh, it was explained in ANOTHER movie!" is unacceptable. Films will never be comics and your love of comics refuses to admit that. Here's an analogy: this is like if they had a vitally important scene for a comic mini-series explained in a tie-in issue without TELLING YOU.

They do that a lot.

Which is exactly why I brought it up

To all the people worried about over the top patriotism and tie in movie goodness, fear not.

The thing I've loved about Captain America as far back as I can remember is he stands for more than being an American and a patriot, not to say that he isn't and that isn't one of his founding principals, he was a propaganda tool after all, but he stands for something more.

Chris Evans portrayal of Steve Rogers really brings this across, he's is what we should aspire to be, something more than the average citizen and I think people of all nations can relate to this ideal.

There is some good ol' American yahooing and some points, but by and by its a comic book movie that I think everyone can enjoy equally.

Now to address the whole other movie tie ins, yeah it helps to have seen some of the other movies to get the bigger picture and the grand scheme thats at play in the background, but as a stand alone film it works superbly, and its not like the tie in bits are that hard to understand in the first place. You can walk into the movie having never seen any of the other Avengers movies and still be completely in the loop and feel like you know whats going on throughout.

tl;dr Captain America is great fun to watch no matter who you are or what other movies you've seen

What I want to know is it patriotic to the point of alienating non Americans?

tomtom94:
I guess there are only two concerns in my mind.
1) Will I, a European, "get" the patriotism of this movie?
2) Will Harry Potter and Cars 2 destroy it at the box office?

well there's only one area that actually involves American patriotism and it's about bonds everything else that depicts cap is his perfect-soldier attitude not the patriotic.
B) probably

Luke Cartner:
What I want to know is it patriotic to the point of alienating non Americans?

I guess that is a somewhat subjective question, but I wouldn't think this movie is patroitic to the point of alienation.

There is little to no discussion of politics at all, and the movie does not focus on the progress of America in the war.

That is because this movie is about the little guy, and how the value of heart & true courage surpasses that of sheer brute force.

I think anybody from any nation can relate. Just understand that this is an alternate reality WWII, kind of like Inglorious Basterds but with Jetpack Nazis.

Not gonna lie, I was hoping this would suck, just cause Bob wanted to give the green lantern such an undressing (not that it was a great movie, but still, for kharma).

well, first I have to go see Winnie the Pooh.

Then I may see this.

Aiddon:

InterAirplay:

Aiddon:
meh, still not interested. Marvel's films have been painfully lackluster ever since Iron Man 2 was revealed to be a directionless bore due to Marvel being far too much in love with the Avengers.

And no Bob, the Avengers is not working. Hate to break it to ya, but not explaining something in a movie with the hand-waving of "oh, it was explained in ANOTHER movie!" is unacceptable. Films will never be comics and your love of comics refuses to admit that. Here's an analogy: this is like if they had a vitally important scene for a comic mini-series explained in a tie-in issue without TELLING YOU.

They do that a lot.

Which is exactly why I brought it up

To be honest, I've seen this film alongside the other 4 Marvel films and there is absolutely nothing in Captain America that requires viewing of the previous four.

What MovieBob is referring to is a magic macguffin, that just so happens to be a reference to the Thor movie (Infact its such an obscure reference only the comic book fans would pick it up). That being said, the magic macguffin could have been the Ark of the Covenant from Indiana Jones and the plot would've not changed in the slightest.

It was just thrown in there to make comic fans (I.E, Moviebob), go "I see what you did there Marvel", it in no way adds, nor detracts from the film

Anyone else hearing The Avengers theme "Fight as One" in their heads? Cause I am and it IS AWESOME!

Gah, must...see...this...movie. I'm glad to see it live up to all the hype.

Well, I sense the fanboyism seen in Watchmen review so I'll give this a pass.
I never really liked Captain America come to think of it. Ultimate goodie, the regular super strength and fights with a damn shield. Not my cup of tea, or cup of bacon for this matter.

Great movie. Really fun. I have exactly one criticism: Chris Evans just does not have enough lines. I know they had to have all the montages and set pieces in there, but he really did an amazing job with what relatively few lines he had.

Hugo Weaving being more evil than Hitler

I must see this

OK, I don't want to sound overly cynical and full of bile, but Bob's gushing review has instantly got the anti-hype hairs on the back of my neck raised like a lion's mane. Maybe it's because I only really enjoy the 'ironic' comics he seems to be lambasting in this review, maybe it's because I've never understood the appeal of Captain America beyond jingoism and propaganda, but there are a few specific points I'd like to address:

The idea that a lack of irony makes the film better. While I agree that not all films need to portray a cynic's view of life, and that there is room for more optimistic, 'naive' output, I'd say that the superhero genre is hardly worthy of such an appraisal. I realise I'm going to anger a lot of hardcore comics fans with my next few statements, but oh well. The biggest reason most superhero movies are rubbish (and most of them, when you look past the special effects, are rubbish) is because the fundamental idea behind superheroes and their antics is a bloody stupid one. This is a point that has been made by critics, commentators, and even comic writers themselves. As Alan Moore himself said, "Watching your parents get gunned down in front of you would probably lead to a lifetime of therapy. It wouldn't lead to someone dressing up as a bat and beating up criminals."

The only reason comics have the standing they do currently is a) because they're a relic from an era decades gone where inconsistent characters and nonsensical plots didn't stop them from geing read by practically every boy in America, and b) they provide good movie-fodder. The actual ideas behind most superhero comics are laughably naive, highly illogical, and often times flat-out bizarre. A guy gets bitten by a radioactive spider, somehow develops mutant powers from this, so decides to spend his life fighting anthropomorphised lizards and scientists with robot arms? Wha...?

Conversely, it is my opinion that cynicism and humour are the best things that ever happened to comic-book superheroes. The minute writers stopped trying to take their overpowered characters seriously is the minute they can instead start taking their stories seriosuly instead. Super-heroes are an inherently dumb concept. Highlighting how dumb that concept is, and using that as a foundation from which to tackle other concepts, is what's allowed super-heroes to be taken seriously in the mainstream, both as characters and as stories. The Ur-examples in comics are of course Watchmen and The Dark Kinight Returns. Both comics were built out of irony and cynicism, and in doing so, were able to tackle storytelling with a maturity and a level of thematic content that simply hadn't existed before. Christopher Nolan has been equally cynical and 'ironic' with his interpretation of Batman: the Dark Knight is essentially a crime film with a couple of genuinely psychotic costumed characters involved. And it is immeasurably better than any Batman film of the Nineties. On the other hand, Kick-Ass is a film with just as many ironic sensibilities. However, instead of trying to play it sombre, it plays everything for laughs. The main character is a hero-wannabe who repeatedly gets his arse handed to him, and his cohorts are psychos who dispatch bad-guys with all the subtlety of a Kill Bill picture. And up until the end, it works.

So when Bob says that Captain America is 100% 'irony free', it makes me worried that instead of investing in a narrative that actually has any weight, emotion or meaning behind it, the producers have simply elected to base their film around the same kind of soap-opera trash storytelling that make comic-books ridiculous for so many. It's a story based around American involvement in World War II, which instantly lends itself to both the onscreen action, but also the kind of strong-storytelling that can have a real emotional impact on audience members. Not only that, but it's a movie about America fighting back with a blonde haired, blue-eyed, stupendously buff super-soldier leading the fight against the Nazis. That right there is the definition of irony, and it provides all sorts of potential to examine the nature of icons, ideals and propaganda, and how they can all be subverted.

I don't mean to go off on one, but Bob said he couldn't really fault the film, which to me means he's putting it up there with films like The Dark Knight: Super-hero films which transcend the genre to become generally great films. If Captain America is simply an excercise in carrying over comic-book logic and storytelling onto the big-screen, then I'm going to call bullshit on his statement. And I don't care how many Marvel/DC fans I've angered by saying so.

Despite the glowing review, I'm going to pass on this. Why? Exactly why you think; it's Captain America and I'm not American. Any movie where the over-idealized nice guy is wrapped up in a flag, of any country mind you, you're just going to piss-off everyone outside of that country with it. It doesn't hurt that this movie also contains every element of ultra-Americana imaginable: Flag ever present? Check; Over-Emphasizing America's role in WWII? Check; Overly nice main character shown as the quintessential American? Check.

*intro music*
"I'm trying to work out in my head exactly why Captain America is such a good movie. And make no mistake, Captain America is a really good movie."
*Pause* ok, that's enough of a spoiler warning. See you whenever it premiers here.

marioman360:
So it's awesome, eh?

Screw that! I'm gonna go watch the Reb Brown movie!

Some mad mod avoiding skills you got here posting one minute into a five and a half minute long vid.
I guess avoiding the word FIRST helped :P

PrinceofPersia:
Anyone else hearing The Avengers theme "Fight as One" in their heads? Cause I am and it IS AWESOME!

Well I dont know that so all im hearing is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhnUgAaea4M at the moment :)

I can certainly cheer for an American hero providing he avoids saying "Math" "Coo-dohs(kudos)" and "My Bad", those being my big 3 US bugbears.

Wow. I had really low expectations for Captain America. I men REALLY Low. Watching the trailer my first thought was "this is going to suck, hard" and now I might see it.

I'm still a little dumbfounded that it looks like it may be good.

THANK YOU, MOVIE BOB!!! I mean that, sincerely. You saved me from being really disappointed with Green Lantern since all the theaters were showing images of the other lanterns equally with the lead characters so I assumed they would have equal screen time. And I would have been horribly, horribly wrong.

To hear that this one is a lean, clean take on the original Captain America story line that will honestly live up to expectation is a great relief. I hate to get my hopes up too high sometimes, but the Dark Knight has at least set a higher bar for comic book movies and it is great to see the film industries aiming for that mark or even higher. Keep up the good work, as always, and I will see you next time for certain! :)

Yaaay! Now I can go watch it without hesitation.
Thankss Bob!

Wow, now I'm really sad. I had been invited to a pre-screening of Captain America a few days ago, but they massively overbooked and asked for anyone that would to cancel and they'd give us free tickets to go see whatever. I thought "well, it's Cap America, no biggie," and did so. Having seen this, now I'm wishing I hadn't.

71-86% on rotten tomatoes. (Depending on who you ask) Not bad at all for a super hero film.

I am glad to hear it rocks as I turned in some free movie passes for tickets to tonight's showing to make sure it did not sell out on me. Looking forward to it! (And finally used those passes.)

I loved the cameo in Bob's review of Jamie Madrox, agent of Hydra.

Corn is an outstanding agricultural product, which I endorse wholeheartedly.

Glad I watch from beginning to end. And by end, I mean the very end after the credits.

so i have to ask, is this as good or better than dark knight? Most pro critics don't seem to think so but in general it seems to be because of chris evans not being popular enough. i will be seeing this.

Would I, as a non-American who gags at American über-patriotism, like this movie?

I mean, if I see the stars and stripes in the background somewhere while some dude is giving a grandiose speech including lots of moral lessons and ending it with some reference to just how great the US is, I am generally inclined to quit the movie (I'm thinking of Independence day for one).

P.S. Alan Silvestri underrated? The man who brought us the theme from Predator?

I totally agree, Bob. I just saw it last night, and I thought it was fantastic. One of the two friends I went to see it with didn't really "get it", but probably because he was expecting more of a gritty tone or whatnot. A far as Captain America goes, I don't think they could have possibly done a better job - it was fantastic! And I agree, it's refreshing to see s Super Hero who's ALWAYS been a good guy, though isn't it slightly weird seeing a Super Hero be a 100% good guy be a refreshing change of pace? You'd think that would be the norm. Anyways, I really enjoyed it, and Chris Evans did a great job bringing the Cap to life.

No irony? I think we've lost the meaning of the word 'irony'. The modern interpretation is, "I'm wearing this dumb shirt out of irony." The classic interpretation is good way to evoke both tragedy and humor, but it's difficult to define now. Something that turns your expectations around for the sake of the story sounds like good irony.

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