Zero Punctuation: The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 NEXT
 

Yahtzee was insulting people for being able to get thru the water temple with ease.
I thought I read somewhere they were revamping the water temple to make it easier or something...
Am I completely wrong?

believer258:

JokerOfSpades:
Incidentally, you shouldn't knock Skyward Sword yet. Nintendo has noted that Twilight Princess would be the last game to follow the typical (OoT) formula.

In Skyward Sword:
- Dungeons are larger
- Puzzles are harder (and have more solutions)
- Combat is more puzzle-esque
- Difference between a dungeon and field is blurred
- Zelda isn't a princess
- No Ganon
- An actual stamina meter (not that big)
- You don't always have to use the dungeon item to beat the boss (huge change)

Etc.

Because all of that most definitely sounds like "whole new game" instead of "improvements on long-established formula", eh? It's a bit more like "slight variations" than full on "different formula".

That's not to say that I thought OoT was bad. I recently played the first six hours or so on a Wii. Yes, the classic version, with a Gamecube controller and those blocky craptastic graphics and audio that sounds like it was played through a toilet bowl. So the fun that I did have was not seen through nostalgia goggles. OoT definitely shows its age, but I thought the bit of it I played actually stood up really, really well. It's also the first Zelda game, 2D or 3D, that I've played for any decent amount of time, so it's quite a good game. I agree with most of what Yatzhee said about it, too. I just wish that locking on had gone through some more work to make it better.

- You actually have to work at combat and think about your moves
- New location
- Because you're making the Master Sword, it isn't the age-old quest to find it and then fight Ganon
- New items will be at the beginning, instead of the end
- You can upgrade items
- You actually have to watch the stamina meter for dashing and pushing heavy objects
- You must use your shield wisely, because it will break
- The story is entirely different, with new roles (Link is actually training to be a knight from the start)
- Musical instrument takes a different role, and isn't so big that it's in the title (Ocarina, Wind Waker)
- Mostly orchestrated soundtrack
- Chest high walls won't stop you anymore (Link can actually climb over them)
- Again, lines between dungeons and fields are blurred
- Many ways to fight an enemy and solve puzzles (again, in every other Zelda game, you had to use the dungeon item to fight the boss)
- More sword-on-sword battles
- Ghirahim is a recurring boss that fights more seriously as he takes you more seriously
- Skyloft is lively, with a lot to do, much as in Clock Town (Majora's Mask)

What else do you want?

Graphics do not make a game, my friend.

and it's not "nostalgia" its a fact. I.e super mario brothers had tighter gameplay then some modern games. Sure I could play New Super Mario bros, but im not shallow enough to say that i can't enjoy a good game because it isn't pretty enough for my precious eyeballs.

fun is fun. i dont care how it looks. i get more enjoyment out of "the shitty polygons" in Super Mario 64 then I do half the games out there these days.

Totally agree with the top 3 "best games ever" ranking.
Anyone who hasn't played them should check them out--the box art appears at 00:27

He should have played master quest.

SteelStallion:

Its quite unfortunate, but most games don't age like wine. I found a lot of difficulty going back to Deus Ex, for example, simply because... well, lets face it. That game is outdated as bollocks, and for all it introduced, many video games have already taken that concept and ran away with it. There are much better experiences today offering the same thing, and much more.

Personally, I strongly disagree with your opinion on Deus Ex. Except for the graphics, I believe the game has aged quite well. It's gameplay and level of detail are greater than in any other game I've played and no, no other game has taken it's concept and ran with it as well, let alone better or offered more. Games nowadays are way too simplistic to be in the same tier with Deus Ex.

Also, I would much rather play System Shock 2 again than Bioshock. And I've played SS2 5 years ago for the first time so no, I'm not nostalgically blind.

There are games that age well and still hold up, unless you consider the graphics to be the core of a game.
Even Yahtzee said he believes Castlevania: SOTN still holds up and he played it a couple of months ago for the first time.

Macgyvercas:
Two points:

1) Even though I'm a massive Zelda fanboy, I have to say I was throuoghly amused by this review (though I know SOMEONE is going to get pissy about it).

I know, I'm going to guess there's going to be another mailbox showdown for this one. What I'm more confused though is why they had to wait for the 3DS to port these games. I mean I think the first title for the DS was a port of Super Mario 64, at the very least that was the game it came with. And I never had a N64 and I loved it, and I was wondering why it was one of the few 3D titles for the console for a while.

Personally I was thinking he was going to review another game, like Red Faction Armageddon and avoid these re-releases entirely.

JokerOfSpades:

believer258:

JokerOfSpades:
Incidentally, you shouldn't knock Skyward Sword yet. Nintendo has noted that Twilight Princess would be the last game to follow the typical (OoT) formula.

In Skyward Sword:
- Dungeons are larger
- Puzzles are harder (and have more solutions)
- Combat is more puzzle-esque
- Difference between a dungeon and field is blurred
- Zelda isn't a princess
- No Ganon
- An actual stamina meter (not that big)
- You don't always have to use the dungeon item to beat the boss (huge change)

Etc.

Because all of that most definitely sounds like "whole new game" instead of "improvements on long-established formula", eh? It's a bit more like "slight variations" than full on "different formula".

That's not to say that I thought OoT was bad. I recently played the first six hours or so on a Wii. Yes, the classic version, with a Gamecube controller and those blocky craptastic graphics and audio that sounds like it was played through a toilet bowl. So the fun that I did have was not seen through nostalgia goggles. OoT definitely shows its age, but I thought the bit of it I played actually stood up really, really well. It's also the first Zelda game, 2D or 3D, that I've played for any decent amount of time, so it's quite a good game. I agree with most of what Yatzhee said about it, too. I just wish that locking on had gone through some more work to make it better.

- You actually have to work at combat and think about your moves
- New location
- Because you're making the Master Sword, it isn't the age-old quest to find it and then fight Ganon
- New items will be at the beginning, instead of the end
- You can upgrade items
- You actually have to watch the stamina meter for dashing and pushing heavy objects
- You must use your shield wisely, because it will break
- The story is entirely different, with new roles (Link is actually training to be a knight from the start)
- Musical instrument takes a different role, and isn't so big that it's in the title (Ocarina, Wind Waker)
- Mostly orchestrated soundtrack
- Chest high walls won't stop you anymore (Link can actually climb over them)
- Again, lines between dungeons and fields are blurred
- Many ways to fight an enemy and solve puzzles (again, in every other Zelda game, you had to use the dungeon item to fight the boss)
- More sword-on-sword battles
- Ghirahim is a recurring boss that fights more seriously as he takes you more seriously
- Skyloft is lively, with a lot to do, much as in Clock Town (Majora's Mask)

What else do you want?

Like I said:

Because all of that most definitely sounds like "whole new game" instead of "improvements on long-established formula", eh? It's a bit more like "slight variations" than full on "different formula".

I did not say that formula was a bad one. In fact, I'm quite certain that I said it was a damn good one. For that matter, I have no problem with improving an already established formula, which is what all those things you listed are, even on a series as long running as Zelda. Hell, I'd like to have seen the Megaman formula that was still being used in the PS2 days given as much attention as this game. I wasn't trying to rant on the game, just pointing out that nothing you or anyone else has listed so far actually changes the game. It still will be following the same formula. Again, for one as excellent as the Zelda formula I don't think it's a bad choice.

If for nothing else this review is great to see I'm far from the only person with disdain for Ocarina of Time. I'm so very tired of hearing people clamor on about how it's the best game ever made, when it's not even as good as the previous title in the series. A Link To The Past aged better, and was more groundbreaking. Hell, LTTP has one of the best hidden easter eggs known to man, as it took people over 10 years to find Chris Hullahan's room.

Hell, I'd go so far as to say Minish Cap is a better Zelda game than Ocarina, and it's not even made by Nintendo. At least it had original ideas.

I think only Zelda fans would buy this game only for a HD remake and nostalgia.

Others I think will pass it.

This video gave me a few chuckles,thus I approve of it.

I'm genuinely surprised by the lack of Nerd Rage in this thread. I've never played a Zelda game and really don't have any plans to, and don't feel like I'm in any way missing out. It's never looked like anything but unchallenging, unrewarding and repetitive waffle, and the constant re-sells of the same formula haven't in any way increased the appeal to me. The only Nintendo console I've even owned was a Wii, and that was brief and I only played Okami and Smash on it. I hear Okami was basically a zelda clone but with a much more interesting art direction and intuitive gameplay resolving around brilliant use of the Wii-mote... So yeah, Okami strikes me as the better game, and if I fancy another hit on that I'll buy Okamiden.

This was a good proper review though, I was getting tired of listening to Croshaw pooping on things... Good episode =]

Oh, any quotes of this that are about how much I suck for not having played Zelda, and how wrong I am, can go fuck themselves and will be deleted. Ta =]

thereverend7:
Graphics do not make a game, my friend.

and it's not "nostalgia" its a fact. I.e super mario brothers had tighter gameplay then some modern games. Sure I could play New Super Mario bros, but im not shallow enough to say that i can't enjoy a good game because it isn't pretty enough for my precious eyeballs.

fun is fun. i dont care how it looks. i get more enjoyment out of "the shitty polygons" in Super Mario 64 then I do half the games out there these days.

You're saying that Ocarina of Time being a good game, or any game being good, is a fact? Nope, sorry, that's an opinion. I do not agree with Yatzhee's assessment that no N64 game has aged well - Super Mario 64, Conker's Bad Fur Day, and Ocarina of Time are all still great games - but they have some fallacies that are much more apparent now than they were then.

Amphoteric:
Ah yes, the weekly flood of people coming to the escapist and slowing it down to a snails pace.

I've never played a Zelda game though for some reason.

I'm pretty sure the "weekly" crowd have more of a right to be here than you, considering the massive quality of this post.

Lordofthesuplex:

Call of Duty 4 is better than Goldeneye because its graphics are better, its sounds are better, its gameplay is more refined, and its multiplayer component is much more compelling.

Really? Because I played CoD4 and other the nuke scene, I didn't see what the big deal was. But whatever I'll give you that. Can't say that applies to every CoD after it though. People go on and on about how every Mario and Zelda game is the same thing (which is bull) but they never wanna call out CoD's yearly sequels now do they?

I don't play CoD, but I tend to excuse non-Nintendo franchises for sequeling because A) they usually have connected stories. No one plays Nintendo games for the plot, but I'd bet there are some doofuses who care about General Shepherd or whoever from CoD. And B) they (usually) have several small innovations rather than one big gimmick. Nintendo games are notorious for the big gimmick. "Oh look, Mario has a water gun! But now he's in space! And Link is a furry now, last time he was a poorly drawn cartoon!" But look at the huge number of tiny little things Halo 2 added from Halo 1. Even though the big gimmick might, in some cases, change gameplay more drastically than a number of minor tweaks, it ironically feels more like Nintendo is just trying to push something out the door as fast as possible. At least to me.

But, fuck, Super Mario Galaxy 2 can't even be given this argument. That's the same game. Period.

I know I'm going to get a lot of flak for this but I can't tell if he liked or hated the game. I enjoyed OoT and am looking forward to playing it again after about 10 years in 3D. As soon as I get the chance to finish L.A. Noire.

I've never played a Zelda game to completion. At the time there was an N64 in the dorm but I greatly preferred GoldenEye, at least until Half-Life came out.

I watched people playing OoT on a number of occasions, but it never looked very appealing. I did enjoy the original Zelda quite a bit however.

Macgyvercas:
1) Even though I'm a massive Zelda fanboy, I have to say I was throuoghly amused by this review (though I know SOMEONE is going to get pissy about it).

By the standards of ZP reviews, I'd even say it was pretty positive. I mean, what did he have to complain about? Awkward controller, 3D, old graphics are old, story's kinda weak, and it makes the later Zelda games look derivative, which, if you're a Zelda fanboy, you probably don't enormously care about. (I know I don't...)

It may not have aged well, but I can't help thinking that it didn't age poorly either.

believer258:

thereverend7:
Graphics do not make a game, my friend.

and it's not "nostalgia" its a fact. I.e super mario brothers had tighter gameplay then some modern games. Sure I could play New Super Mario bros, but im not shallow enough to say that i can't enjoy a good game because it isn't pretty enough for my precious eyeballs.

fun is fun. i dont care how it looks. i get more enjoyment out of "the shitty polygons" in Super Mario 64 then I do half the games out there these days.

You're saying that Ocarina of Time being a good game, or any game being good, is a fact? Nope, sorry, that's an opinion. I do not agree with Yatzhee's assessment that no N64 game has aged well - Super Mario 64, Conker's Bad Fur Day, and Ocarina of Time are all still great games - but they have some fallacies that are much more apparent now than they were then.

Um, no. I said you shouldn't dismiss a game and consider it bad just based on it's graphics "not having aged well"

I mean hell, if you only want to play new games just because they look the shiniest, by all means do so, but most gamers I know don't really care as long as, you know, its fun.

EDIT: I can see where my original post could have been quite misleading. I was simply meaning Graphics do not equal good gameplay. Old games can still be enjoyed just as old movies can still be enjoyed, you just might have to change your state of mind a little.

Ocarina of time is just an old favorite thats hard for alot of people to shake a mad hand at and the same goes for Goldeneye. They were in fact super great games and I am glad that others after them were inspired by them but it is time we start trying for a new formula in Zelda kinda like how Mario Galaxy did. Nothing to drastic but a major upgrade to the play mechanics. The new addition to craftable weapons and gear to make them more of your style is a nice start but I hope theres more. Great review though I loved every second of it, just wish it was longer, next week is so far away lol.

Is it me or does Yahtzee's feeling for a game seem to inversely represent the number of fans a game has?

This brings up a decent question about games. What is better? the game that invented something great or the one that took everything that game had and improved upon it?

In the original ocarina of time you couldn't open a map and see what room you hadn't been in.

I love OoT but of course taking several steps back in mechanics isn't going to hold up for anyone who didn't play it when the N64 was big. I will say though, Yahtzee having to look up how to get Lord Jabu Jabu to swallow you saddens me. And if memory serves, the map system wasn't so nice as to let you see which rooms you hadn't been in before in the original.

No surprises here, OoT is an old game and the template for pretty much every LoZ game to follow it and the mechanics of such games need nostalgia to make their mechanics still seem anywhere near as good.

I think I'm among extremely few people in the world who never liked this game.

The Bandit:

Amphoteric:
Ah yes, the weekly flood of people coming to the escapist and slowing it down to a snails pace.

I've never played a Zelda game though for some reason.

I'm pretty sure the "weekly" crowd have more of a right to be here than you, considering the massive quality of this post.

Everyone has exactly the same right to be here.

What are you talking about?

I find it weird that right before I watched this I was playing OoT on an emulator for the nostalgia.

Lordofthesuplex:
Once again, this wasn't a review. This was Yahtzee needing an excuse to say how much he thinks Nintendo sucks like the cynical troll that he is.

That's what Yahtzee does urgh. None of his videos are meant to be reviews and you can hardly call him a cynical troll because he isn't trying to deceive anybody.

If you don't want to listen to some guy tear games apart and make jokes then don't watch his fucking videos.

Seriously though you thought these videos were meant to be reviews?

always liked majoras mask better tbh. : p also the water temple is not that hard, even at 12 i didn't have a hard time there. (i'm pretty shure i was about 12 when i played ocarina of time and majoras mask. : p)

Didn't they remake the water dungeon to be easier?

daxterx2005:
Yahtzee was insulting people for being able to get thru the water temple with ease.
I thought I read somewhere they were revamping the water temple to make it easier or something...
Am I completely wrong?

I read that too but now I hear they didn't change a thing. I think there was a bug in the original that could cause you to get stuck forever, I suppose they would have fixed that atleast.

People bashing the Zelda formula are just people that forgot that games are supposed to be fun. Fun is subjective. People will like different things. People who hate on games are just elitists who believe that their opinion should be viewed as fact. Here's how it tends to play out for them: Lets play 'CAN YOU SPOT THE ELITISTS?' Rules are simple. two people will be presented and 1 is an elitist Your job is to pick out the elitist:

round 1:

Person A: Call of Duty is lame.
Person B: I like Call of Duty.
Person A: Then your brain is broken.

Round 2:

Person C: Mass Effect is the greatest game ever.
Person D: I didn't really like Mass Effect.
Person C: You deserve to die.

Round 3:

Person E: Oh you also like Final Fantasy. Which was your favorite?
Person F: Probably Final Fantasy XII
Person E: BLASPHEMY!!!

There is no prize, so don't bother playing.

back to the actual review:

I love me some Ocarina of Time, and I still found this rather hilarious, "Fuck me its cold in here." got me laughing so hard my neck hurts (I don't think it is supposed to do that...).

Ocarina of Time is really simple; but the only way most of us were able to get through it was because we had the strategy guide. I think the only reason why we all got the strategy guide was because of how awesome it looked. It wasn't just the game cover reprinted to fit the form of the strategy guide. Then after 12 years of playing, we just kinda memorized it (I don't think anyone really took 12 years to memorize, but still most of us did).

I don't quite remember, but I believe that you were supposed to talk to different Zora and they talk about how Lord Jabu Jabu likes to eat fish, and I think there is a sign near him that say so as well. I haven't played in a while (No 3DS).

And luckily for the Great Deku tree, he died so he didn't have to explain anything to the others (I'm surprised that Death Mountain wasn't represented at the meeting, I guess we all cant get everything we'd want.)

twm1709:
This brings up a decent question about games. What is better? the game that invented something great or the one that took everything that game had and improved upon it?

By definition it's the second one. The original can be fondly remembered, but if things are improved upon then the later game is obviously the better title.
Goldeneye was great in it's day but even the most mediocre competent FPS released nowadays blows it out the water. COD 4 is definitely superior to Goldeneye. Goldeneye had a greater impact at the time because there was nothing like it on console but that doesn't make it the better game.

thereverend7:
fun is fun. i dont care how it looks. i get more enjoyment out of "the shitty polygons" in Super Mario 64 then I do half the games out there these days.

Much agreed. Super Mario 64 wasn't even the most technically good-looking game of 1996, but it sure was a whole lot more structured, balanced, inventive and straight-up fun than pretty much every other game that year, even though I never actually played that until the remake came out.

Dexiro:

Lordofthesuplex:
Once again, this wasn't a review. This was Yahtzee needing an excuse to say how much he thinks Nintendo sucks like the cynical troll that he is.

That's what Yahtzee does urgh. None of his videos are meant to be reviews and you can hardly call him a cynical troll because he isn't trying to deceive anybody.

If you don't want to listen to some guy tear games apart and make jokes then don't watch his fucking videos.

Seriously though you thought these videos were meant to be reviews?

watch the opening. At the end it says:

REVIEWS
THE LEGEND OF ZELDA
OCARINA OF TIME 3D

Can't blame people for the confusion. Those really should say:

CRITIQUES
THE LEGEND OF ZELDA
OCARINA OF TIME 3D

Sure, the 3D doesn't add anything to the gameplay (other than making aiming easier), but it sure is purty. Especially during the songs that surround Link in magical light.

I had the same exact problem with the L-targeting. When I went to the option menu to turn of the gyroscope aiming, I was pleasantly surprised to see the option to make L-targeting a toggle instead of holding it down.

Also, which room has the problematic cutscene? I've played the N64, GCN, and 3DS versions and never encountered that problem before.

Finally, people overplay nostalgia when talking about anything older than the Dreamcast. Ocarina of Time added added/popularized a lot of mechanics that are standard today; the two big ones are targeting and the context-sensitive action button. The problem isn't nostalgia; the problem is you didn't play this one when it was new so all of the mechanics that it started and / or popularized are standard today, so you didn't notice them.

Finally, "Fuck me, it's cold in here!". Hilarious!

Scrumpmonkey:
I have more concern about skyward swrond since it really looks like it sticks horribly close to the Oot formula, well apart from the slightly ugly art stlye...

It doesn't. They've said it doesn't a billion times. They're approaching the game the same way as they did with Majora's Mask. Read the fucking interviews, it's not that hard.

SuperShadowAce:
Skyward sword should piss you plenty since you have no option for a regular controller.

The whole point of Skyward Sword is not to use a regular controller, unlike Twilight Princess.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here