Zero Punctuation: The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D

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Anybody else catch the reference to Joseph Campbell's Monomyth? Look at Yahtzee, being all sophisticated and cultured in his reviews now

Jaime_Wolf:

starwarsgeek:
Not really. While Ganon trying to obtain the Triforce and conquer Hyrule is the most common plot, it's only present in five of the fourteen games, and each of those five have something to make them stand out:

The Legend of Zelda is, of course, the original and has the most basic plot. Get Triforce, save Zelda. Classic.
In A Link to the Past, Ganon conquers Hyrule Heaven and turns it into Hyrule Hell. So there's a second world and even a secondary villain. And it introduces the Master Sword.
Ocarina of Time uses time travel to show a destroyed Hyrule that you failed to save. At its core, it's both a coming of age story and a hero's journey.
The Wind Waker completely floods the kingdom and you live in the pirate-filled ruins. Deals with a theme of past mistakes.
In Twilight Princess, Hyrule is being invaded by demons. Takes cues from Ocarina and Link, but does not repeat either of them.

These five games share the same three main characters (sort of), setting, and central plot device. They are similar stories. They are not "essentially the same".

"But they all have bows and hookshots lol."

Actually, the hookshot wasn't introduced until A Lin...wait. oh. Ok, I get it now.
-Hangs head in shame and stupidity-

SteelStallion:
Call of Duty 4 is better than Goldeneye because its graphics are better, its sounds are better, its gameplay is more refined, and its multiplayer component is much more compelling. This isn't opinion, its fact, and trying to convince yourself otherwise in some misguided belief that the golden age of gaming has already passed is just silly. Now, was Call of Duty 4 better than Goldeneye was back when it was released?. No, it wasn't. People need to stop clinging onto old habits purely for the sake of nostalgia and a refusal to accept change. Games are improving, building on games past.

Depends on what you mean by "better." "Better" is subjective. If you mean Call of Duty is better because it has better quality sound and graphics, then - in that way - it is better. However, "better" is such a broad term... simply saying that something is factually better is ridiculous. No, Call of Duty - despite being much more modern than Goldeneye - is not better. Some people consider Goldeneye to be better; some people prefer Call of Duty.

It's all about personal opinion. Simple as that.

Anyway, very funny review. I enjoyed Ocarina of Time a lot, but I still don't know if it was worth buying a 3DS. Other games will inevitably come out, but I don't see myself playing it very often.

starwarsgeek:

Abandon4093:

No one means aesthetic when they say Zelda hasn't changed. They mean the stories formula.

They are essentially all the same. Obviously not exactly the same, but it's more than just a few core elements.

Not really. While Ganon trying to obtain the Triforce and conquer Hyrule is the most common plot, it's only present in five of the fourteen games, and each of those five have something to make them stand out:

The Legend of Zelda is, of course, the original and has the most basic plot. Get Triforce, save Zelda. Classic.
In A Link to the Past, Ganon conquers Hyrule Heaven and turns it into Hyrule Hell. So there's a second world and even a secondary villain. And it introduces the Master Sword.
Ocarina of Time uses time travel to show a destroyed Hyrule that you failed to save. At its core, it's both a coming of age story and a hero's journey.
The Wind Waker completely floods the kingdom and you live in the pirate-filled ruins. Deals with a theme of past mistakes.
In Twilight Princess, Hyrule is being invaded by demons. Takes cues from Ocarina and Link, but does not repeat either of them.

These five games share the same three main characters (sort of), setting, and central plot device. They are similar stories. They are not "essentially the same".

I have to admit I haven't played the original 2D games for more than a few minutes (way before my time). But can you honestly say that the 5 games that you say 'share similar stories' can differentiate them selves enough for it to be anything above a superficial change?

The none handheld console games made after OoT are so similar that they are essentially the same game. (story and theme only, not gameplay and aesthetic.)

Ganon kidnaps princess. Link finds sword, shield, host of other tools and mguffins in select amount of dungeons and then face Ganon. Triumph with courage and wisdom.

The formula is pretty much copypasta at this point.

I really want them to throw it completely on it's head for a new game. I don't care about Zelda. Saving the princess is such a tired motive. Why not have Zelda sit at home and bake cookies Join Link as a full on companion throughout the quest? Have some new threat overpower Ganondorf. Shake up the formula a little.

The most original Zelda game I played was the Phantom hourglass (even though it still had the same basic structure). And I enjoyed it because it was a bit different. Not just OoT. Now with wolf.

Why can't we have that in non-handheld form? The big budget Zelda games are just so.... predictable.

Sober Thal:
Yes, that Robin Williams ad was a bit creepy...

I can't wait till my friend with his giant tri-force tattoo on his back watches this... he may cry.

Why cry? I love Zelda, and this was hilarious. Not everyone has to like everything we like y'know :D

Nenad:
Robin Williams gave his daughter her name after a game?! *mindblown*

Y'know, Zelda IS a real name. It's Roma.

hipster666:
Having just witnessed the Robin Williams advert (thanks for pointing us in it's direction) I can honestly say WTF?! He named his daughter after a video game character? I'm surprised she doesn't just punch him in the face and say "thanks dad! For the years of abuse I suffered at school..."

Seriously. This is a real name. It wasn't made up for the games. It's a traditional Roma name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelda_%28given_name%29

It was originally short for Griselda. Hell, it's Jewish too.

Who cares if he intended to get it from the games, it's a real buggering name. This isn't like naming your kid "Optimus" or something ridiculous like that.

Or, God help us, Turok... Stupid Acclaim.

Speaking of water temples, my friend got a Wii like a year and a half after release. He literally put down Twilight Princess for 3 months when he couldn't get past the water temple early in that game. I said "may I?" rotated the center room again, and asked, "Have you tried going in that room again?"

Not that I'm special or anything. I also had to tell a couple of friends how to get past the regenerators in Resident Evil 4. Sometimes the things that come easily to me seem super-hard to everyone else, whereas the things that seem obvious to everyone else stump me.

Be fair. The water temple in this one is apparently easier. But yeah. Can agree on most things. The quality of a game diminishes over time as we expect better quality from our products. This game in it's time set the bar quite high and other games took a long time to catch up. The N64 exclusive home made games used to be the best thing out there. Now we see more from third party titles (mass effect, call of duty (EVERYONE OWNS IT SHUT UP), Half life), as if they've caught up in quality.

YES! The Robin Williams trailer was 12 kinds of bat-shit bonkers! I can only imagine what his daughter thinks of the whole thing.

Abandon4093:

I really want them to throw it completely on it's head for a new game. I don't care about Zelda. Saving the princess is such a tired motive. Why not have Zelda sit at home and bake cookies Join Link as a full on companion throughout the quest? Have some new threat overpower Ganondorf. Shake up the formula a little.

The most original Zelda game I played was the Phantom hourglass (even though it still had the same basic structure). And I enjoyed it because it was a bit different. Not just OoT. Now with wolf.

Why can't we have that in non-handheld form? The big budget Zelda games are just so.... predictable.....

A big budget Zelda did shake things up once; it was called Majora's Mask. At least in my opinion.

It seems Nintendo is going back to playing with the formula again with Skyward Sword, so let's cross our fingers and hope it turns out well.

..Wonder when Nintendo will actually make Zelda do something else or be thrown into a different situation. Anyhow, very splendid review Yahtzee, I loved it of course and laughed so incredibly hard with what you named Link (lol seriously!!)

Sometimes I don't know why Yahtzee reviews games, because he surely doesn't like them.

Not that I ever liked Ocarina of Time myself, but it seems he only ever liked a handful of games in his entire life.

Strategy games: he hates them.

FPS games: He only liked Doom and Painkiller. Bioshock 1 received equal praise and criticism.

Adventurers: He hates the gameplay.

Turn-based RPGs: He hates them.

Real-time RPGs: He hates every japanese ones, I only recall him liking Morrowind (or rather, found it alright). Hated Mass Effect and Dragon Age (before they were ruined by EA).

Sandbox games: Only liked Saints Row 2 and Just Cause 2 (ironically, two sequels).

Platformers: Only liked Paper Mario and Psychonauts.

JetstreamGW:

Sober Thal:
Yes, that Robin Williams ad was a bit creepy...

I can't wait till my friend with his giant tri-force tattoo on his back watches this... he may cry.

Why cry? I love Zelda, and this was hilarious. Not everyone has to like everything we like y'know :D

Tony? That you?

Don't try to be above your fanboy/irrational love for all things Link.

You are Tony, right?

If you are not Tony, then I fail to see why you would quote me in the manner that you did.

EDIT: You are not the guy I was talking about in my post. Sorry for being confusing.

Fuck me it's cold in here!

Had to pause while I cracked up at that point. Yahtzee, you silly bitch.

The end bit "Two in the Plink" also comedy gold.

As for the actual game, well, about what I expected. 3D has always bugged me, in video games, cinema and every other medium, so fuck it. And it really is just a retread of an old classic game. If they remade Pong, I wouldn't expect them to update the story and give the paddles character arcs. They're paddles, they swat the little ball/box (depending on your polygon count) back and forth. Likewise, Link didn't need a character arc in this. He's the unmitigated bad ass. End of character arc. He set fire to shit and hacked other shit down with a sword. What more do you need from a protagonist?

Also, Fuck me it's cold in here!!! LOL (but not really, cuz there's a fucking heat wave. so fuck me it's hot in here!)

drakythe:
Woo! Other people do exist who haven't finished OoT and thought it was Obtuse. Glad I'm not the only one. I did finish both Majora's Mask and Wind Waker, but never could make it through OoT.

Nice review, Yahtzee.

Could you believe there's people that have never played OoT and wouldn't care to do so in the slightest, because I'm happy to say I at least know one...;)

Ah now I remember why I love Yahtzee :)

Screw people who still classify old and dated games as "the best games evar"

I never finished Ocarina of Time either, it wasn't bad, but I lost interest quickly.

Lordofthesuplex:
Once again, this wasn't a review. This was Yahtzee needing an excuse to say how much he thinks Nintendo sucks like the cynical troll that he is. I probably have bigger hands than him and I can say right now that I had no problem with the L-Trigger. And I'm getting sick of the "Twilight Princess = Big budget OoT" criticism. Speaking from experience, all Twilight Princess has in common are a few references here and there and the usual Forest, Volcano, Undersea and Desert themed dungeons that have been Zelda games since LttP. There's really barely anything in there that makes me say: "Oh it's OoT 2.0"

I'm not gonna lie though, Majora's Mask and Wind Waker are far better than OoT but to say OoT hasn't aged well, is really damn stupid. The original NES Zelda games, now THOSE haven't aged well.

Oh and I can name plenty of N64 games that have aged well you drunken douchebag: Sin & Punishment & Conker's Bad Fur Day for starters.

Finally saying Call of Duty 4 is better than Goldeneye is assinine. To be honest, I wasn't that big into Goldeneye, I prefered Perfect Dark. But even I can tell you CoD isn't better than it because CoD has done nothing spectacular or innovative to deserve it's praise. It's no different than any other FPS out there or even before it. (Don't hate me for being honest)

Rather than wade through your bullshit fanboy rambling, I'm going to go ahead and point out two things:

1: Yahtzee gives Nintendo credit where credit is due, you can't deny that. He's given some of their games very positive reviews, and specifically said that he likes Twilight Princess. And yes, this is indeed a review, or at least by my definition, which is where someone talks about something, and gives their opinion on it and explains why they have their opinion on it. I don't have the slightest idea what your definition is, although I suppose fanboys such as yourself don't consider a review of a zelda game a review unless it's showering praise on every aspect of the game's design.

2: He wasn't saying that MW2 did more for our generation than MW2. He said that it's fucking ridiculous that anyone should believe for even a moment that Goldeneye is comparible to modern FPS's, and he used MW2 as an example because in our day and age, like it or not, whenever anyone says "First Person Shooter" the first thing that will pop to people's mind is Call of Duty. And say what you want about the Call of Duty games - Me personally, I think that it's all a load of overhyped garbage - but nobody who isn't very clearly blinded by nostalgia will play MW2, and then play Goldeneye, and say that Goldeneye is anywhere near as good as MW2.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, you're simply pulling things out of your ass so that you can have the satisfaction of knowing that you have a justifiable reason to get mad at Yahtzee other than "He doesn't agree with me that Nintendo are the video game equivelent of Jesus!".

I suppose I should post this as a disclaimer for all you wonderful people who aren't generally smart enough to comprehend that someone said even the slightest thing bad about their favorite game: Yahtzee never once in the review stated that Goldeneye wasn't great for his time. He implied that it's been completely ass-raped by the test of time, and frankly, he's right. The entire game looks like shit, the controls are shaky, the N64 controller is simply awful.

Well, Nintendo fanboys, I'll just say this: LEAVE. OCARINA OF TIME. ALONE!

It was great at its time, and it was also a landmark that is part of the RPG Revolution, but goddammit, rally on something else! At the very least, scream for a Majora's Mask remake. I know you OoT fanatics won't admit it, but it was heaps better than its predecessor!

Honestly, you guys, yet another remake of Ocarina of Time is just like re-animating the corpse of Frank Sinatra for your birthday party: sure, he might still belt out a great "New York, New York", but at one point his head is going to fall off and that would be an awkward moment for everybody involved.

I dunno, I couldn't get into Ocarina of Time too easily.

Yahtzee didn't like a game I really enjoy. Nifty.

It was still very entertaining! =D

-goes on with life-

review = herp i hate Nintendo derp

Never played a single Zelda game myself, but from what I can gather, people seem to favour OoT above all else. Way to rip that game a new one Yahtzee :)

LadyRhian:
Hmmm... Interesting. This is a game I also never played. Never had an N64. I had an NES. And boy, those graphics were shite by Today's standards. When will people learn that nostalgia is seldom as 20/20 as you think it will be?

I think you missed out a bit man, the N64 was like adding butter to bread for the first time.

Waddles:
Goldeneye is and always will be the best fps of all time!

Until one of the CODs adds split-screen multiplayer and slappers only, certainly.

Don't worry Yahtzee, folks saying OoT is one of the best games ever are fanboys introduced to the Zelda franchise by that game. You can ignore it.

Yahtzee was too general in this review. He should get into the specific reasons OoT sucks.

SandroTheMaster:
Sometimes I don't know why Yahtzee reviews games, because he surely doesn't like them.

Not that I ever liked Ocarina of Time myself, but it seems he only ever liked a handful of games in his entire life.

Strategy games: he hates them.

FPS games: He only liked Doom and Painkiller. Bioshock 1 received equal praise and criticism.

Adventurers: He hates the gameplay.

Turn-based RPGs: He hates them.

Real-time RPGs: He hates every japanese ones, I only recall him liking Morrowind (or rather, found it alright). Hated Mass Effect and Dragon Age (before they were ruined by EA).

Sandbox games: Only liked Saints Row 2 and Just Cause 2 (ironically, two sequels).

Platformers: Only liked Paper Mario and Psychonauts.

Well reviewing games seems to make people fairly cynical especially if it's your job to only really be cynical for the sake of comedy but he does like a fair amount of games beyond the ones you listed. Also I think he did like dragon age and mass effect he also like prince of Persia and enjoyed the batman game and amnesia and resident evil 4. There's only one guy who effortlessly likes games and reviews them all the time. And his name is mark the classic game room reviewer. This guy found a way to like games everyone hates.

FatCatLim:
Rapelay is the 3rd title that you put on your games pedestal? Oh Yahtzee you cad.

I believe you and I may be the only two people that noticed that... that's strange. Although maybe I shouldn't be too surprised that only I and one random person with 5 posts recognized the box art... now what does that say about us, eh?

Here is what I don't understand. Zelda games after OoT took what OoT did and made it better. Yahtzee says this, no? But then he says that is what makes them worse? I never understand this logic.

even when i was 13, i thought ocarina was good but horribly overrated. i always thought majoras mask was much better

Those crazy fans of Goldeneye are absolutely silly to hold the game in such high regard today when it's not even the best FPS on the N64. Perfect Dark was and always will be the better of the two games. Nostalgia is a dangerous thing.

I'm afraid that I don't quite understand how they're "showing their cheat sheet" with this game. Ocarina of time was always available for you to play. If re-releasing counts, then wouldn't the special edition that came with Wind Waker be a cheat sheet?
Besides, I don't really get why people say that it is treading over the same ground over and over again. Sure the basic bones of the story are the same, but it's handled in a new and interesting way each time. Wind Waker touched on themes of realizing one's true potential and power while Twilight Princess had the light world/dark world dichotomy that was present in other Zelda games extend to the protagonist himself.

Every plot can be boiled down to simplistic terms. For example: A rich guy gets thrown into prison, but then fights his way out and realizes that he could use his affluence to help people instead of being a self-centered douche. He uses the money left over from his dad's business and his company's top secret projects to build a super suit with plenty of gadgets. He then goes ahead and fights crime. Along the way, he gets some help from his butler and a lady friend who he has a secret crush on. He eventually has to fight the main villian, who was actually his mentor the entire time. At the very end, we get a small clue about what is coming in the next movie.
Did I just describe Iron Man or Batman Begins?

TLDR, just because a series of games can be boiled down to basic plot details doesn't mean that it's just rehashing it if the games themselves are dealing with different issues, and Yahtzee's point that they're showing off their "cheat sheet" doesn't make any sense.

Abandon4093:
I have to admit I haven't played the original 2D games for more than a few minutes (way before my time). But can you honestly say that the 5 games that you say 'share similar stories' can differentiate them selves enough for it to be anything above a superficial change?

The none handheld console games made after OoT are so similar that they are essentially the same game. (story and theme only, not gameplay and aesthetic.)

Ganon kidnaps princess. Link finds sword, shield, host of other tools and mguffins in select amount of dungeons and then face Ganon. Triumph with courage and wisdom.

The formula is pretty much copypasta at this point.

Well, to elaborate on why I think the stories are more than superficial changes, I'm going to half to elaborate on the backstory and plot of most of the series. So...

Warning: The following post contains a description of every console Zelda's plot, so it's spoiler-y and really long.

Squilookle:
Dammit- I think it's my fault that goldeneye got brought up in this one. Shoulda kept my mouth shut at the mana bar I guess...

Oh well, seeing as I'm here, may as well explain WHY goldeneye holds up.
Non-Linear Levels- pretty rare back then, just as rare now. The levels were often built like actual believable layouts, like Thief was, so exploration was rewarding and there were different ways to do everything.

Rambo style sometimes WILL get you massacred- Forgetting for a moment that it was the first to do stealth in a console FPS, it also did it damn well. Even today if you get lazy you will be overwhelmed. You can still barge through guns blazing in some levels, but there's nothing quite like breaking out of a cell, unarmed, finding some throwing knives, and then taking down absolutely everyone in an underground bunker through patience, timing and skill blah blah blah... these days everything's just a mindless corridor.

The best difficulty setup ever done- There was actually a point and incentive to play on all difficulties. Higher difficulties had more objectives, and sometimes new areas. Each difficulty level unlocked a bonus level of its own when they were all finished too. Modern games STILL mostly don't understand that with a higher challenge there needs to be bigger rewards.

offline Splitscreen with four players- We don't care what limitations you have with a console's hardware, if goldeneye could do it with the 64's measly hardware, you can do it today. I'd go further and say any shooter that doesn't have multiplayer bots like Perfect Dark brought is a step backwards, too. What the hell, Killzone 3? what were you thinking, COD: WAW?

massive arsenal of guns that had real weight to them- I'm not saying all modern games do this but a lot of games make the guns a bit lacking in punch. Even tiny pistols in Goldeneye slide back and bark loudly as the shell pops out in front of a decent muzzle flash as you aimed exactly where you wanted to shoot with your own targeting, not some PC style crosshair trying to work on a controller. And there were more than thirty weapons! and you could carry them all at the same time! Why did you do this to us, Halo? And what the hell, DNF?

No handholding- You got your brief, heard you're objectives, and were thrown in to work it out for yourself. One thing that drove me insane in nearly every Bond game since is the fact that when Bond is out doing a mission, the entire staff of MI6 is listening and offering so called 'advice' all the time, like saying "That vent, 007!!!" as I am facing a very obvious large vent that is filling my screen. A lot of modern games guilty of this one especially.

cheats- Do I really have to explain this one? It's simple- complete a certain mission, on a certain difficulty, in a certain time, and you get a fun reward. Playing with cheats will not unlock the next level/bonus/whatever. It's simple, it's foolproof. It's fun. Thank god Timesplitters continued much of this legacy.

Bottom line is -and I can't believe I have to tell you this Yahtzee- good games aren't just about graphics. Sure the 64 is old and had simpler games in its time, but that just allowed devs to get more done right (in principle, anyway. Nobody forgets Superman 64). There are many 'best game of X console' discussions out there, but it's the N64 that gets the most debate about which of it's games where the best game of all time.

Tell you what though, you were right about the fish offering in OOT. Took me weeks to figure that stupid logic out. And I had never played a zelda game before last year either.

Excellent Post. Ocarina of Time, and Perfect Dark, were both excellent games. I sadly never got a chance to play Goldeneye, which is why I keep hoping for a port. I just hope the team that does the port doesn't screw it up. The auto aim is crap in the Xbox 360 version of PD, and random number generators hold far to much control over whether your live or die on some levels, like the Carrington Institute Defense level. Whether 1 or 4 guards with super shields happen to spawn in a place you need to run through seems to be entirely random.

But I digress. Those games on the N64, kicked ass. And the visuals were so colorful back then...even with bad graphics, they actually look better in many ways, just because of the colors.

See, I always thought the main difference between OoT and TP was that in TP they actually remembered to make it fun.

Because I never, ever thought OoT was fun.

I love the Zelda games. I've always loved the Zelda games. I still love the Zelda games. Skyward Sword is one of a grand total of two games coming out the rest of this year that I'm likely to bother and pick up while they're still full price. I just never could get into OoT.

LttP and WW are two of my favorite games of all time, but I just couldn't get into OoT. I didn't like it when it first came out. I didn't like it years latter when I forced myself to finish it. I didn't even like it when I realized WW was friggin' awesome and 3D Zelda games could totally be great so I gave it one more try. It seems pretty obvious at this point that if I didn't like it after all that, I sure as fuck won't like it with a tiny screen, annoying little buttons and a headache added to the mix.

next zelda game i play link is being named fuck me then after that thief(cookie for if you know were it's referenced from)

even as a zelda fan i could honestly care less about the existence of this remake. It's a fine game but really it's overrated. it set the standard at it's time and it was the first 3d zelda but that was the past not the present. Also majoras mask and wind waker (to an extent), and even links awakening(that's right a 2d zelda can beat Ocarina of Time) is better but that's just option.

cassiebearRAWR:
I guess I do agree with Yahtzee on the "bland character/story" front, but then again, if Nintendo tries to give Link even more of a personality and back-story than in Wind Waker, we could wind up with another Other M. And I'd personally rather run around as a boring mute than have another classic Nintendo franchise so badly mishandled.

like this
look at 4:43 and 5:14 at least

and this

well the cd-i game and it was not made by Nintendo but still link had a personality. the horror...

heh. Rapelay is one of the greatest games of all time now?
Im think going to hell for just recognising the cover.

Ahh well. i too never fully completed Oot in its entirety. i just got sick and tired of having to start at the treehouse EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I loaded the game outside of a dungeon.

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