Zero Punctuation: The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D

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In my opinion Zelda OoT aged well

the targeting system i never used so i cant relate to that, but stuff like the fish to get eaten or entering through right doors to progress were truly not a problem. Especially the fish thing, because the NPCs were pretty much in your face that the whale likes fish.

About the "difficult" water temple, i also got through it in my first try without having to think too much, but i can imagine when you start changing the waterlvl one time false that you could end up running in circles.

One of the most importants parts you totally missed out and i canīt denied thats probably not your fault, but my and my friends favourite gimmick in OoT was Epona, simply because it was very unique and made a hell lot of fun.

Hell yeah that was my guitar =3

It's funny because he complained about having to hold down the button to L-target, even though you can set it in the options to do it just from clicking once.

starwarsgeek:

Abandon4093:
I have to admit I haven't played the original 2D games for more than a few minutes (way before my time). But can you honestly say that the 5 games that you say 'share similar stories' can differentiate them selves enough for it to be anything above a superficial change?

The none handheld console games made after OoT are so similar that they are essentially the same game. (story and theme only, not gameplay and aesthetic.)

Ganon kidnaps princess. Link finds sword, shield, host of other tools and mguffins in select amount of dungeons and then face Ganon. Triumph with courage and wisdom.

The formula is pretty much copypasta at this point.

Well, to elaborate on why I think the stories are more than superficial changes, I'm going to half to elaborate on the backstory and plot of most of the series. So...

Warning: The following post contains a description of every console Zelda's plot, so it's spoiler-y and really long.

but there is no timeline.
well i choose to believe that and i am zelda fan. i know Nintendo claims to have a secret timeline document and says there is a timeline but there bull shitting. there must be trolling the fans. i have no proff but timeline theorists don't have any proof that nintendo is not trolling. i wouldn't put it past nintendo since there bastards like that.

Golden eye is just bad. All i remember is sparkles when someone got shot and a silly gasping sound. Anyways the dev's certainty don't care about their fanboys opinions and have long since moved on. But herp derp some people think it the best still.

Anyway perfect dark was a much better n64 game if you aren't a moron and actually looked at the features. I mean it needed a bloody expansion Pack for the damn n64 just to run. It had tons of more interresting weapons and levels, game modes, unloackables etc. I think alot of the people who made that game was even the same people but Goldeneye morons still kling to their stale old MOLDY bread that had the grafics out of minecraft even for a n64.

Yeah just saw they had one of the same designers on both games. Who now works for codemasters so herp derp go buy their stuff then 007 fanbois.

Nintedo is just bad, there's a reason why playstation and xbox went far beyond them in the non casual/kiddy game depertment.. As in they don't sell their soul to gut children? of their pennies.

I fully admit I may be influenced by nostalgia, but I do think Ocarina of Time has more appeal than Twilight Princess. OoT's story is very basic, true, but it's told pretty consistently. I generally knew why I was going into dungeons/temples and what I was fighting for (yes, in part because the reasons were cliched and thus familiar), and it was all nicely worked out.

Twilight princess seems to set its bar higher, but half the time jumps lower than OoT. There's just so little coherence to the narrative. Half the dungeons felt like filler, no matter how nice the gameplay was I could not understand why I was doing them except "I'm playing a Zelda game and thus I need to clear dungeons". The house of the Yeti was the worst example, where a house owned by some snow monsters is infested with enemies (why? Never explained), you get send around at random through the house because the owners forgot where they left the MacGuffin, and the end boss is one of the yeti's spontaneously turned evil by the MacGuffin... which is then never brought up again.

The story outside the dungeon had the same problems. The kids are a prime example here. You start out with a pretty clear mission of finding them. Then... you do. And... then one gets kidnapped and one learns to be brave... and your GF loses her memory and you get pointed in the right direction for fixing it when you're in an arbitrary point in the story... then she gets her memory back, but it doesn't change anything... Really, the kids story line is in limbo after the first 25% of the game but petters on till the 75% mark, at which point we just forget about them. Just like the 4 heroes who sound interesting, but only really serve as map markers for your next dungeon, for no good reason. The only characters I really liked were Midna and the barlady.

It's a shame, because the game occasionally gets your hopes up. The cutscene where the water spirit shows you in a VERY personal way what happened when people turned on one another to steal the power of the triforce creeped me out in an awesome way. But it's only the one cutscene, nothing much comes of it. The gameplay is still nice, but storywise I expected more from this game and the game regularly teases you that you will get more eventually. But you never really do. And just why we need to call it legend of ZELDA at that point is beyond me, since Zelda has actually less impact on the story such as it is than the barlady (who needs a bigger part BTW).

I tried playing ocarina of time, but that damn fairy was too annoying.

It's always been an overrated game, but now Yahtzee says it so escapists nolonger feel the need to parrot eachother how great it was.
Now I'm going check if Yahtzee ever did a vid on KOTOR.

Reincarnatedwolfgod:
but there is no timeline.
well i choose to believe that and i am zelda fan. i know Nintendo claims to have a secret timeline document and says there is a timeline but there bull shitting. there must be trolling the fans. i have no proff but timeline theorists don't have any proof that nintendo is not trolling. i wouldn't put it past nintendo since there bastards like that.

While there's not enough information to put together the exact order, the games themselves do have a continuity.

Ganon dies in The Legend of Zelda. His minions are trying to resurrect him in Zelda II: Adventure of Link.

Link's Awakening features bosses that were formed from Link's memories. They are bosses from a previous game (A Link to the Past, if I remember correctly).

It was stated in interviews that Ocarina of Time is a prequel to A Link to the Past (which, itself, was stated to be a prequel to the first game).

Majora's Mask is very obviously a direct sequel to Ocarina of Time. Among other subtle hints, he still has the ocarina.

The Wind Waker begins with by repeating ALTTP's backstory, followed by a recap of OoT. On the islands, it is a custom for boys to cosplay as the Hero of Time for their twelfth birthday. About halfway through the game, you go the sunken Hyrule castle, where there are stain glass windows of the sages from OoT. The statues of the goddesses are apparently actually statues of their oracles from the Oracle games on the GBC. The sapling that springs up after the Forest Temple is now a full grown Great Deku Tree.

Four Swords Adventure is the sequel to the multiplayer mode on the GBA version of ALLTP. Same sword, and the villain, Vaati, returns. It explains where Ganon found his Trident that he uses in most of his appearances (or possibly some innocent Gerudo named after the previous king stumbled upon his old weapon which had a spell that allowed Ganon to possess him. Or something).

The Minish Cap is Vaati's backstory, and the opening could be foreshadowing for Skyward Sword.

In interviews, Aonuma said Twilight Princess is a child-timeline sequel to Ocarina of Time. The first room of the Temple of Time is identical to the Ocarina version.

Phantom Hourglass is a direct sequel to The Wind Waker. Spirit Tracks, in turn, is a sequel to PH, just many years later. Many characters are decedents of WW/PH characters, and one of Tetra's crew is still alive.

Skyward Sword will involve the creation of the Master Sword, so it predates every game that it appears in. Probably the first game in the continuity so far.

Aonuma confirmed a split-timeline, and he's been in charge since Majora's Mask (the first game after Ocarina). The games support this. There's just not enough evidence to put them all in an undeniably correct order, which puts Nintendo in a sweet spot 'cause they can allude to the continuity, but they're free to tinker with it if needed without getting a huge forum backlash.

If Nintendo is pretending to have continuity, not only are they lying for no reason, but they're doing a fine job of making the games support the lies.

KingCrInuYasha:

Abandon4093:

I really want them to throw it completely on it's head for a new game. I don't care about Zelda. Saving the princess is such a tired motive. Why not have Zelda sit at home and bake cookies Join Link as a full on companion throughout the quest? Have some new threat overpower Ganondorf. Shake up the formula a little.

The most original Zelda game I played was the Phantom hourglass (even though it still had the same basic structure). And I enjoyed it because it was a bit different. Not just OoT. Now with wolf.

Why can't we have that in non-handheld form? The big budget Zelda games are just so.... predictable.....

A big budget Zelda did shake things up once; it was called Majora's Mask. At least in my opinion.

It seems Nintendo is going back to playing with the formula again with Skyward Sword, so let's cross our fingers and hope it turns out well.

I actually really enjoyed Majoras mask. But that was what? 10-15 years ago?

The story has been pretty much copypasta since then.

I do hope they shake it up a bit.

JetstreamGW:

Nenad:
Robin Williams gave his daughter her name after a game?! *mindblown*

Y'know, Zelda IS a real name. It's Roma.

hipster666:
Having just witnessed the Robin Williams advert (thanks for pointing us in it's direction) I can honestly say WTF?! He named his daughter after a video game character? I'm surprised she doesn't just punch him in the face and say "thanks dad! For the years of abuse I suffered at school..."

Seriously. This is a real name. It wasn't made up for the games. It's a traditional Roma name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelda_%28given_name%29

It was originally short for Griselda. Hell, it's Jewish too.

Who cares if he intended to get it from the games, it's a real buggering name. This isn't like naming your kid "Optimus" or something ridiculous like that.

Or, God help us, Turok... Stupid Acclaim.

I know, I know, but AFTER THE GAME *mindstillblown*

starwarsgeek:

Abandon4093:
I have to admit I haven't played the original 2D games for more than a few minutes (way before my time). But can you honestly say that the 5 games that you say 'share similar stories' can differentiate them selves enough for it to be anything above a superficial change?

The none handheld console games made after OoT are so similar that they are essentially the same game. (story and theme only, not gameplay and aesthetic.)

Ganon kidnaps princess. Link finds sword, shield, host of other tools and mguffins in select amount of dungeons and then face Ganon. Triumph with courage and wisdom.

The formula is pretty much copypasta at this point.

Well, to elaborate on why I think the stories are more than superficial changes, I'm going to half to elaborate on the backstory and plot of most of the series. So...

Warning: The following post contains a description of every console Zelda's plot, so it's spoiler-y and really long.

I know there's a large back story running through it all.

But in my eyes, it doesn't change the fact that all the new games that seem to come out use the same structure to build the game around.

I do enjoy Zelda games. And OoT is responsible for getting me into them. But all the big Zelda games that have come out since then have used that same formula to build their story on. That's why people say the games haven't really changed.

I will say though. It was an enjoyable read. And I do like the Zelda timeline.

But what I've never got is. Are Link, Zelda and Ganon the same characters constantly reincarnated when their story needs to be played out again? Or is the similarities between the 3 Ocarina characters and the 3, lets say Windwaker characters just coincidental?

Are the only important pieces about these characters their Triforce. Are their spirits intrinsically linked with each piece?

I basically just never got how the 3 characters were always the same over a timeline that spread hundreds of years.

Abandon4093:
But what I've never got is. Are Link, Zelda and Ganon the same characters constantly reincarnated when their story needs to be played out again? Or is the similarities between the 3 Ocarina characters and the 3, lets say Windwaker characters just coincidental?

I know why people say the games haven't changed since Ocarina. Ganon is the villain in both Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, so the story is going to be similar. I just respectfully disagree. : )

As for the characters...
Ganon is the same guy. Everytime. One of the benefits of the Triforce of Power is immortality. On the rare occasion that Link finds a loophole and kills him (such as Ganon not possessing the Triforce for the final battle in Wind Waker), his minions have multiple spells that can bring him back (Oracles, Zelda II).

Link and Zelda are not always the same, although sometimes the same ones will be featured in multiple games (For example, Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask both have the Hero of Time, and The Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass both have the Hero of Wind). Each Zelda is part of the same bloodline. The Links are probably part of their own (The Stalfos that teaches you new moves in Twilight Princess is heavily implied to be a former Link, probably the Hero of Time. He calls the Twilight Princess Link "his son", implying a bloodline connection). Although Ganon appears to think Link reincarnated in The Wind Waker ("Surely you are the Hero of Time reborn"), facts like more than one Zelda living at the same time (Zelda II) and The Hero of Time not dying in the Adult Timeline (Ocarina of Time) seem to disprove this. I think they should elaborate on this a little, personally.

Fuck Zelda games and Goldeneye. Perfect Dark was the only game on the N64 that kept my attention long enough to play through a single game with that god awful controller.

With Twisted Metal, Xenogears, Metal Gear Solid, Legend of Dragoon, Gran Turismo 1,2, Lunar, etc I never ever saw a reason to buy an N64. Ever.

Yes, I've played OoT and Goldeneye. They were awful. You're remembering wrong ;) Sadly enough all the good Nintendo games that weren't first party are on other consoles now. That includes the Goldeneye reboot.

Oh Nintendo. You used to be cool. Now that they're losing money, it seems people are not buying into their new gimmicks, and I am sure the WiiU is going to get hit hard by it.

Squilookle:
Dammit- I think it's my fault that goldeneye got brought up in this one. Shoulda kept my mouth shut at the mana bar I guess...

Oh well, seeing as I'm here, may as well explain WHY goldeneye holds up.
Non-Linear Levels- pretty rare back then, just as rare now. The levels were often built like actual believable layouts, like Thief was, so exploration was rewarding and there were different ways to do everything.

Rambo style sometimes WILL get you massacred- Forgetting for a moment that it was the first to do stealth in a console FPS, it also did it damn well. Even today if you get lazy you will be overwhelmed. You can still barge through guns blazing in some levels, but there's nothing quite like breaking out of a cell, unarmed, finding some throwing knives, and then taking down absolutely everyone in an underground bunker through patience, timing and skill blah blah blah... these days everything's just a mindless corridor.

The best difficulty setup ever done- There was actually a point and incentive to play on all difficulties. Higher difficulties had more objectives, and sometimes new areas. Each difficulty level unlocked a bonus level of its own when they were all finished too. Modern games STILL mostly don't understand that with a higher challenge there needs to be bigger rewards.

offline Splitscreen with four players- We don't care what limitations you have with a console's hardware, if goldeneye could do it with the 64's measly hardware, you can do it today. I'd go further and say any shooter that doesn't have multiplayer bots like Perfect Dark brought is a step backwards, too. What the hell, Killzone 3? what were you thinking, COD: WAW?

massive arsenal of guns that had real weight to them- I'm not saying all modern games do this but a lot of games make the guns a bit lacking in punch. Even tiny pistols in Goldeneye slide back and bark loudly as the shell pops out in front of a decent muzzle flash as you aimed exactly where you wanted to shoot with your own targeting, not some PC style crosshair trying to work on a controller. And there were more than thirty weapons! and you could carry them all at the same time! Why did you do this to us, Halo? And what the hell, DNF?

No handholding- You got your brief, heard you're objectives, and were thrown in to work it out for yourself. One thing that drove me insane in nearly every Bond game since is the fact that when Bond is out doing a mission, the entire staff of MI6 is listening and offering so called 'advice' all the time, like saying "That vent, 007!!!" as I am facing a very obvious large vent that is filling my screen. A lot of modern games guilty of this one especially.

cheats- Do I really have to explain this one? It's simple- complete a certain mission, on a certain difficulty, in a certain time, and you get a fun reward. Playing with cheats will not unlock the next level/bonus/whatever. It's simple, it's foolproof. It's fun. Thank god Timesplitters continued much of this legacy.

Bottom line is -and I can't believe I have to tell you this Yahtzee- good games aren't just about graphics. Sure the 64 is old and had simpler games in its time, but that just allowed devs to get more done right (in principle, anyway. Nobody forgets Superman 64). There are many 'best game of X console' discussions out there, but it's the N64 that gets the most debate about which of it's games where the best game of all time.

Tell you what though, you were right about the fish offering in OOT. Took me weeks to figure that stupid logic out. And I had never played a zelda game before last year either.

I agree with everything you have said here about GoldenEye 100%.

But I would also say Ocarina of Time is massively overrated by people who were first introduced to RPGs through it (and some to 3D). The same goes for Final Fantasy VII. But I totally get the love for them (they're not bad games). I love Phantasy Star (the original), my first RPG, but I can still recognise that it doesn't hold up today. People seem to take RPGs a little more personally than other games. I guess it's the role playing element that really ties them to the game.

But GoldenEye, GoldenEye is still good. The level design IS amazing. The sense of freedom is rarely matched in modern games. Some levels in Call of Duty 2 and Halo have it but GoldenEye had it on every single level. Each level had a clear goal but every time you started the level you really had no idea on how you were going to achieve it. Just like James Bond. In fact I'd watched nearly all of the James Bond films before playing GoldenEye and I didn't really like them. But after playing GoldenEye I suddenly got what made James Bond, James Bond. So I went back and watched them all again and enjoyed them so much more. And there's not many movie tie-in games you could say made you appreciate and enjoy the films more.

Driv3:
It does seem odd that both Nintendo and Microsoft seem intent on pushing the same games from 10+ years ago (Halo re-release) rather than coming up with innovative ideas but then again new ideas are expensive, reboots are not. Shame as I really liked this game when I was younger but its doubtful it would be enjoyable if I played it again especially if nothing has changed.

Sony's been milking HD re-releases, too. I think if they could get some of their more popular PS1 games released, they totally would. I mean, they've already seen a re-release of FFVII do well without any enhancements on PSN. Imagine if they could get an exclusive deal to put out FFVII HDREMIX.

They would probably step over their own grandmas.

But this is nothing new. Nintendo's franchises are largely the same idea rehashed time and again. The major difference between a remake and a new version is the superficial touches they feed us to keep us from realising it's the same game vs the nostalgia factor of the "best game ever."

Though seriously, I still replay some of my favourite titles from any generation where I have a working system and cart/disc. It's not like, a bad thing in its entirety. Just...They've made what? Ten OoT remakes? That's a bit extreme.

Goldeneye has held up very well if you don't mind a controller that gives you arthritis.

Sometimes I wonder what it was like back in the days before all discourse about videogames was dominated by that fact that it's "cool" to be a jaded and cynical jerk, but then I realize that it's probably just wishful thinking that such a time ever existed.

Xersues:
Fuck Zelda games and Goldeneye. Perfect Dark was the only game on the N64 that kept my attention long enough to play through a single game with that god awful controller.

With Twisted Metal, Xenogears, Metal Gear Solid, Legend of Dragoon, Gran Turismo 1,2, Lunar, etc I never ever saw a reason to buy an N64. Ever.

Yes, I've played OoT and Goldeneye. They were awful. You're remembering wrong ;) Sadly enough all the good Nintendo games that weren't first party are on other consoles now. That includes the Goldeneye reboot.

Oh Nintendo. You used to be cool. Now that they're losing money, it seems people are not buying into their new gimmicks, and I am sure the WiiU is going to get hit hard by it.

lol. They were awful because you say so and we are wrong.

Oh wise master, iluminate my path and free me from the Nintendo awesomness darkness.

Xersues:
Fuck Zelda games and Goldeneye. Perfect Dark was the only game on the N64 that kept my attention long enough to play through a single game with that god awful controller.

With Twisted Metal, Xenogears, Metal Gear Solid, Legend of Dragoon, Gran Turismo 1,2, Lunar, etc I never ever saw a reason to buy an N64. Ever.

Yes, I've played OoT and Goldeneye. They were awful. You're remembering wrong ;) Sadly enough all the good Nintendo games that weren't first party are on other consoles now. That includes the Goldeneye reboot.

Oh Nintendo. You used to be cool. Now that they're losing money, it seems people are not buying into their new gimmicks, and I am sure the WiiU is going to get hit hard by it.

And people call ME the fanboy?! Dude, people like you are why I can't stand Sony anymore because their company is run by your type.

Well, its hard for me to have an opinion of Legend of Zelda, since the only Zelda game I have ever played was, in fact, Ocarina Of Time on my cousin's N64. Even though it was cool and all, especially the ReDead's. God damnit those were scary! And this was back when I thought the zombies in Resident Evil were the scariest undead I had ever seen.

But the best N64 games for me were always Goldeneye and Star Wars: Shadows Of The Empire, because James Bond is cool and I really really REALLY like Star Wars! :-3

Also, I thought that Robin Williams ad was really cool.

Was it me or was Zelda Williams reeeeeeeeally hot?
Also, I tried playing this when I was 16 and got lost way to often... that was a big field.

well everyone is expecting nerd rage but surprisingly there has been very little. I think I'll take it upon myself to throw a little bit of "rage" out there.

I bought this game and my sister started playing it. She had never beaten the game before let alone play it. She beat the entire thing without using gamefax, or getting stuck for a long time or using one of those stones.

Which makes me question why the hell you even bothered to use gamefax. Since the game is willing to tell you how to do everything.
The reason you beat the water temple so easy is because they made it much easier to find where to lower and raise the water. My sister also was expecting a very difficult temple and beat in less time than you.

Also the things you mentioned about the other zelda games is stuff everyone not living in dumassistan figured out 5 years ago.

I expected that the gameplay would have been remade. The lock on system is terrible and the pacing is all off. I expected a directors cut more then anything and it really really wasn't.

excusablegold:
heh. Rapelay is one of the greatest games of all time now?
Im think going to hell for just recognising the cover.

You and me both, dood.

By the way, calling Link "Fuck me" was funny as hell. Ranks up there with calling Nier "Twattycake".

i still play OoT and MM, probably more than i play WW and TP. It isn't fair to say that NO 64 games have aged well, i still play Starfox 64, Paper Mario, Perfect Dark, and Mario Party.

The Goldeneye remark and picture made my day, which would have been made later by the 'Attack dog trained to administer Chinese burns' idea.

I think I must have started Orcarina of Time on the N64 a dozen times but kept getting bored after becoming 'Adult Link' - Only completed it once. Despite that I'd still put it in my top 10.

Actually the Refusal of the Call is not necessary, though we do observe, in some myths, that the hero does avoid the adventure albeit with disastrous consequences. It still wasn't a bad reference to Campbell's theory considering the story of Link is as archetypal as it gets to the extent that, if you took Legend of Zelda 101 in college, you will find certain details in this series borrowed by mainstream games today.

Anyway, make another Majora's Mask.

bificommander:

The story outside the dungeon had the same problems. The kids are a prime example here. You start out with a pretty clear mission of finding them. Then... you do. And... then one gets kidnapped and one learns to be brave... and your GF loses her memory and you get pointed in the right direction for fixing it when you're in an arbitrary point in the story... then she gets her memory back, but it doesn't change anything... Really, the kids story line is in limbo after the first 25% of the game but petters on till the 75% mark, at which point we just forget about them. Just like the 4 heroes who sound interesting, but only really serve as map markers for your next dungeon, for no good reason. The only characters I really liked were Midna and the barlady.

The barlady's name was Telma, in case you're curious.

YMMV, but in terms of interesting characters, there's also:

Zant (at least, before he went off his meds)
The kids, especially Malo
Agitha
Yeto and Yeta
Ooccoo
Barnes the bomb maker
Fyer the cannon repairman
The fishing lady

Anoni Mus:

lol. They were awful because you say so and we are wrong.

Oh wise master, iluminate my path and free me from the Nintendo awesomness darkness.

Its ok you seem smart enough to figure it out on your own.

Lordofthesuplex:

And people call ME the fanboy?! Dude, people like you are why I can't stand Sony anymore because their company is run by your type.

Nice edit to make sure you get the attack in there nice and tight. People like me only had one console growing up of that generation, and we had to make a choice what that was. It was either N64 or a PlayStation. Since the PS1 came out before the N64, the choice was pretty clear at the time. Then the Playstation 2 came out after that. And well, yeah another Sony product. It was easily a generation past the N64.

Oh Dreamcast though. How I loved that stupid thing. You want to talk about Fanboy, my god that thing had me rabid.

Then I learned a valuable lesson after that and went back to PC gaming.

That my friend is people like me. Which I'm the only one I know. As far as I can tell I don't run Sony either.

also, why am I typing in ads for a Captcha. Norwegian cruise line? I feel dirty. Next I'll have to type in "Ribbed for her pleasure" to get a post in.

I own an N64 and the original game and I never understood the big obsession with it. I barely got through the first bloody forest before I was ready to turn it off.

I never finished OOT, got up to water temple, lost saves, might go do it now on the old N64 and FFX as well (but not FFVII because that shitheap was spoilt by the interwebz long ago).

Or twilight princess, might go finish that.

And if we're having fanboy wars then... go somewhere else. This is as bad as the console vs PC where the PC crowd is full of a bunch of childish twats who think they're better than people who play games on consoles (that's like saying I'm better than you because I drive a $80,000 car and not a $40,000 one nya nya nyah!)

Didn't nintendo actually say they rebuilt the water temple in the 3D version because everyone complained about it so much?

Xersues:

Anoni Mus:

lol. They were awful because you say so and we are wrong.

Oh wise master, iluminate my path and free me from the Nintendo awesomness darkness.

Its ok you seem smart enough to figure it out on your own.

I don't think I can since I love Zelda and Goldenye, own a N64, bought a 3DS a month ago and intend to buy a Nintendo Wii U. I am so dumb!

Y'know, I found the Fire Dungeon more confusing than the Water Dungeon back in the day, simply because as Yahtzee correctly pointed out, you just look for the unexplored rooms. The Fire Dungeon was 50% red herrings thanks to the old scarecrow tower with a couple of rupees at the top. I will admit though that if you were to attempt the Water Dungeon in multiple sittings, you'd lose the flow and subtle hints at where to go next and would be entirely reliant on memory to backtrack essentially making it a nightmare (as adjusting water levels on the original design essentially required them to be adjusted in the correct order you find them). Essentially the challenging puzzle was not the puzzle itself but figuring out how to reset the puzzle if you quit abruptly and got sent back to the door.

In a single sitting, the Water Dungeon was actually fairly linear.

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