Escape to the Movies: Cowboys and Aliens

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What is the screen grab at 1:42 from, at the point the adopted indian is mentioned?

It looks like a pirate-hatted Ninja kicking two mongols in the face. If that's from this film i may have to see it.

As for people talking of a double standard, I'm not sure it's useful to try and discern the set of rules that MovieBob, or any critic for that matter, use to develop their opinion, I don't think they exist. In some movies, I'm not worrying too much about character development because I'm too busy having a good time with the movie and the characters I've got. Normally if I worry a character isn't developing it's because they're not interesting me and I'm waiting for them to get more interesting.

Besides, if you're going solely by the voice of one critic, you may want to diversify your media somewhat, we all know MovieBob might not be the most objective of sources when it comes to comic/videogame movies. I for one do like hearing MovieBob's opinion on films, but I enjoy how he tells them alot more.

Sylveria:
Remember, Bob said The Last Airbender was worth seeing.

No he didn't. He said it was better than Eclipse. Other than that he tore it apart. And saying it's better than Eclipse isn't saying much.

therockdemon:
i was looking forward to this coming out, mabey i will give it a miss then

Your Avatar makes me laugh so much, I don't know why... Haha XD 'Why so curious George?'

OT: Aaawww, of all movies- I was actually looking forward to this one. Darn... when you put it that way then I shall just skip this movie then. *sigh*. Looked so good, interesting and new. But, man... they really need to proof read their scripts rather then just roll with it.

Wow, I'm kinda disappointed by this, I was expecting more from this film.

Also, Attack the Block really doesn't live up to expectations. I went to see it a couple of months ago and I cant remember anything interesting from it....But admittedly I was rather drunk..

When I saw the add for this movie I thought, Oh Good Movie bob hasn't ripted a movie to shreds in a while. But no I guess it wasn't even good enough to warent a proper thrashing.

Saw a preview when i watched Captain America today. massed Cavalry with revolvers and stetsons VS aliens. HOW DID THEY RUIN THAT!

BTW smurfs only redeemable quality is Neil Patrick Harris and even his fine acting skills and fine body won't save it.

Additional BTW Captain America RULED! And i successfully suppressed the urge to pimp smack the stupid little bastard that said otherwise.

Edit:Another damned BTW another preview was for abducted(abduction). Moviebob was right the "werewolf" from twilight has a future in b level action movies.

Huh, Captain America holds true to its stereotypes and it is the best movie ever for it, Cowboys and Aliens do the same and it is boring for it.

So wait, they don't broach the irony of alien invasion of earth being similar to the American invasion of the frontier? When I saw the trailer, I thought that was supposed to be the subtext of the whole movie.

I might go watch this regardless of Mr. Bob's criticism. His review is what I would describe Captain America as being, which I can describe as: "We're doing a slow mo action scene? Do we wanna put some effort into it? No, cool then"

Where as this appears to be a movie that has adopted the video game story method, Act II: Amnesia, Action, Inevitable betrayal. Act III: Action, Action, Action, friend in trouble, kill big bad. Act I: ????

s0m3th1ng:

Faerillis:
When it stops being considered surprising movies involving the Old West are usually gonna suck

3:10 to Yuma

This. 3:10 to Yuma, while some say not as thoughtful as the original, still blew away all my expectations about lame modern Westerns. I haven't yet seen True Grit, but not due to any lack of enthusiasm now that I know they're still making good Westerns.

But then, my favorite Western of the modern movie age before 3:10 came out was The Quick and the Dead, an over-the-top effort by Sam Raimi to tell a legendary story in a truly legendary style, much like 300 ultra-pimps the battle at Thermopylae.

Sounds like, with that many writers, the movie suffered from too many cooks in the kitchen. I might trust Orci and Kurtzman with it if it were supposed only to be what was advertised in the trailers: a sci-fi/Western mash-up with such an absurd premise, the only thing it could be is awesome. If it were meant to be allegorical to the crowding out of Injuns by palefaces, then I would think the metaphor would be much more plainly stated, like Section 9 parallels to apartheid, or the Animatrix segment Second Renaissance Part I, which directly recreated iconic images like Tiananmen Square and the execution of Nguyen Van Lem during the Tet Offensive.

But from the sound of it, and I think this would address the confusion about Bob's argument to depth of character, is that the movie suggests all of these things but doesn't actually reveal anything that's not already apparent. The depth is suggested but overplayed, the plot twists are hyped but predictable, the movie effectively is promising but not delivering, whereas Captain America told you exactly what it was and then f-ing did it.

One of the grand axioms of my education in music was that they can love you or they can hate you, but if you bore them, you're done. That may be the ultimate failing of this movie, that it's neither good enough for Bob to love, nor bad enough for him to hate, and forgettable is almost worse than just plain bad.

Saw Captain America last night. It was good, but it was far from the awesome zomgeverythingisawsum that Bob makes it out to be. It's formulaic to the point of hilarity (see: Diversity Squad being Captain America's right-hand men. Need I say more?). The thing is, Captain America does what it does well. It does one thing - it has the good guys beat up the bad guys, and then it calls it a day.

And that is fun to see, and that is all this movie was. It called down the whole Big Book of Cliches and Tropes, and it didn't matter. They're not what guided the movie.

I thought that Sucker Punch was a flaming pile of dog crap because it had interesting concepts with a wet batch of paper acting as a "script" - and without a script, there's nothing holding those interesting concepts together. Bob apparently thought that it was fab-u-lous.

I have some reason to question his judgment, as you might be able to tell. C&A is no different. I'm going to see this movie, and, yes, I will probably be let down big time. But:

a) I <3 Harrison Ford
b) Cowboys vs. Aliens
c) Explosions
d) Did someone say Olivia Wilde nude scene?

Maybe it will overplay tropes and cliches. As long as it doesn't try to do too many things at once, that's alright. It should have cowboys fighting aliens, there should be explosions, and I should be able to turn off my brain for 2 hours with little issue. Bob's critiques all seemed to come from the fact that he was expecting a deeper experience.

I...I don't understand why he would.

So if this makes money, it will be a trilogy.
Bet on it.

I'm more interested to know what MovieBob thought of The Guard. I'm hoping that will be next week's episode - certainly beats one on the Smurfs.

I am still going to see this. One of the other critics I like thought this was a great summer movie.

http://www.thecinemasnob.com/

From the multiple reviews I have seen and read, Cowboys and Aliens seems to be getting a fair share of praise and criticism and I am more than willing to give it a shot.

P.S.
Their Smurfs review is worth watching too. Oh how much they hated that movie.

Hmmm, well having spent 10 years of my life working for Native Americans (time split between two tribes) I will say that the whole "irony" thing would only work for a modern liberal who has no real idea of the dynamics.

See, a lot of the relationships between settlers and the Natives in the Americas happened right down here on The East Coast. The Indians you are generally familiar with in movies and such are those from the midwest and west, they are nothing at all like the tribes that wound up defining the relationships. For one all that silver and turquoise stuff, and the big feather headdresses, and the teepees? Nope, none of that applied. The whole "white guy screwing Indians out of land because they had no conception of land owenership" stuff? total BS.

The actual East Coast indians were not all that nomadic, they lived in long houses which were pretty much permanant structures, and they farmed. Things like the Mashentucket Pequot museum down here even have a full sized replica of a settlement you can walk around in that gives you a pretty good idea of what they lived like.

There are two things that caused the lasting bad blood and set the policies to come. One was quite simply "The French and Indian War" where the tribes that sided with The French knowingly did so, feeling that they were going to get a better deal, there was no deception involved. The problem was that when The French lost, all the natives were left here and had no real home to go back to, and were facing the wrath of the people they slotted off. The other was simply that the big tribes that allied with the victorious English settlers got greedy. The leadership wasn't quite as simple as "big chief give order, others follow" as popularized in the movies, things could get fairly political. The bottom line was that tribes like The Mohegans (well pretty much The Mohegans... who I worked for) decided they wanted a better deal than they were getting at the time. Pretty much "hey you guys just had a war, and we have more guys than you do, let's talk about how much land we're going to take... we want three times as much, and if you don't like it you can discuss it with our warriors". Needless to say that didn't exactly go over very well. Now truthfully, I feel the whole situation could have been handled better, but the bottom line was that it lead to a complete breakdown of trust especially given the other tribes that the settlers were at war with, some truely brutal surprise attacks and massacres (the settlers WERE badly outnumbered, and viewed from a certain perspective some of those actions were fairly heroic), and well you know what happened. What many people might not realize though is that certain tribes like again The Mohegans still have a decent amount of respect, guys like Chief Uncas are local legends, and sites down here like Uncas' leap where he rode his horse over the falls, or Fort Shantok (which was reclaimed by the tribe) where the Indians lifted the siege on the fort, are things kids learned about even before the casinos and the rise to power of the local tribes. Of course a lot of that has to do with the fact that Uncas himself wasn't entirely responsible for setting the policies that lead to the inevitable fighting.

At any rate, what happened was that with Native Americans viewed as being threats the general attitude to begin with was to run them off. The tribes and surviving natives were pushed west, and as a general trend they came into conflict with other tribes over hunting grounds, farmland and other things. Then of course the settlers would expand west, push those left back even further, and so on. When this was noticed the natives began to go on the offensive to try and kill the settlers, and of course this did nothing for relations and this lead to open warfare. Things like the infamous use of small pox might not have been right, but are understandable when you look at the relational numbers between the settlers at the forefront of any wave of expansion compared to the natives.

The point is that the situation is a bit more complicated than a simple "we want your stuff so we're going to kill you and take it" when you view it in the overall scheme of things. Truthfully, had tensions not been so high, and had cooler heads prevailed with Uncas and the Mohegans in paticular, I think the attitudes would have wound up being differant and the entire sequence of events would have changed. In the end while some of it might have eventually come down to resource grabs, the mentality that lead to that developing wasn't just a snap desician.

I think people living closer to the time, on both sides of the fence, wouldn't see this as the same thing as those aliens. They lack a detached, modern, liberal perspective on things, not to mention that at least nationally speaking it doesn't seem people pay much attention to the natives on the east coast or how things played out, except to maybe read "Last Of The Mohegans" in school.

Incidently I learned a lot of this from people in the tribes when I worked there, visited their museums, and other things. I won't claim to be an expert exactly, but I like to think I know a bit more about the subject than most people having you know... worked for them and having been taught to answer questions for tourists and stuff (being security, you know customer relations. Someone asks what that faux-woodcut is of, and it's nice if the guy patrolling actually knows the story, event, or historical figure it's supposed to illustrate and stuff like that).

When it comes to frontier towns, they are by the nature of being "on the frontier" not representitive of civlization as a whole. Guys operating out of mauve vulture gulch might pan for gold and stuff, but they are hardly in a position to be depopulating indians or trying to lay claim to major amounts of resources. That kind of thing tends to happen when the encroachment of civilization catches up. Some later-period westerns (and games like Red Dead Redemption) even deal with the whole issue of society having caught up and there not being a real "frontier" anymore since there is noplace on the edge any longer... civilization has reached the ocean, moving through everything in between.

Just some thoughts on that one point.

That said, we'll see what I think when I see the movie Sunday.

No one's gonna say it? Okay then I will. Laserblast.
To pad this comment, oh God what the hell are they doing to the Smurfs and why won't they stop?!?

I dont know....i love watching Movie Bob's reviews, but i really cant say i agree w/ them 90% of the time....i say if you were planing on going to see it, just do it

Saw it this afternoon. I think my brother summarized the disappointment of this movie best: "I guess it should have been named 'Cowboys & Occasionally Aliens'".

This looked like a skippable film a mile away. My one friend was really geeking out about seeing it. Sounds like she will be highly disapointed when I hear when response. I'll try not to be too much of a jerk about rubbing it that I was right heh.

Cain_Zeros:

Sylveria:
Remember, Bob said The Last Airbender was worth seeing.

No he didn't. He said it was better than Eclipse. Other than that he tore it apart. And saying it's better than Eclipse isn't saying much.

If you've seen Eclipse, I believe you'd think differently. Gone are the overly serious angsty romance, in it's place comes tongue-in-cheek humor, and decent action scenes. Anyone who bashes Twilight: Eclipse clearly either hasn't seen it, or is so biased against Twilight that they are already ready to hate it. (Please note that I hated the first two Twilight movies).

moviedork:

Cain_Zeros:

Sylveria:
Remember, Bob said The Last Airbender was worth seeing.

No he didn't. He said it was better than Eclipse. Other than that he tore it apart. And saying it's better than Eclipse isn't saying much.

If you've seen Eclipse, I believe you'd think differently. Gone are the overly serious angsty romance, in it's place comes tongue-in-cheek humor, and decent action scenes. Anyone who bashes Twilight: Eclipse clearly either hasn't seen it, or is so biased against Twilight that they are already ready to hate it. (Please note that I hated the first two Twilight movies).

Well, I'd imagine Bob would have to fall into the latter category if those are really the only two options possible for not enjoying it for six billion people, because it's been a while since I've seen his review, but I'm pretty sure he didn't find anything to praise at all.

pandasaw:
I am still going to see this. One of the other critics I like thought this was a great summer movie.

http://www.thecinemasnob.com/

From the multiple reviews I have seen and read, Cowboys and Aliens seems to be getting a fair share of praise and criticism and I am more than willing to give it a shot.

P.S.
Their Smurfs review is worth watching too. Oh how much they hated that movie.

I've seen both reviews, and my taste in movies is close to that of brad's rather than moviebob's. I just think moviebob is so jaded by all the movies he has to sit through. What moviebob considers dull the average moviegoer might have a great time with.

I don't know, this just makes it clear that I won't consider bob's opinion when I choose to go see a movie. Case in point moviebob said to avoid the movie Devil like the plague, brad recommended the movie because it was so unintentionally hilarious like The Happening was, I went with brad's advice and was not disappointed, not only with the humor but it also genuinely had some creepy moments and it does work as a whodunit.

EDIT: and yes their smurfs review was great, I knew I was in for a treat when I saw the run time for the smurfs review was almost 40 minutes long whereas the other 2 reviews were around 15 minutes.

Sylveria:

Frybird:

With unneeded jabs and rants like this, it's hard to take Bob seriously.

Unfortunately, most people seem to agree on what he had to say about Cowboys & Aliens.
One would think a project like this is a massive labour of love, and maybe it is, but when the product in the end just feels dull to the very people immediately sold on the premise, something gone REALLY wrong.

Thing is, the people agreeing with him haven't seen it. Look at the responses of the people that agree with him. They saw the trailer, their mom said they thought it would bomb, they thought it sounded interesting, it looks cool, but they haven't seen it and are just blindly agreeing. Then look at the people who say they've actually seen it.

Hehe You mentioned my post. I wasn't going to see it anyway it's not my cup of tea.

This movie isn't as bad as Bob makes it sound. It's honestly just as good as Captain America. The acting is good, the premise is original and fun, and the action is awesome. Sure it has its flaws, but it does a lot right and it makes for a good time.

Chigs, the aliens from Space: above and beyond were called Chigs.

I knew this wasn't going to be good. It smacked of Snakes on A Plane- a supposedly "clever" idea that someone developed into a movie based solely on the title.

As an aside- and I realise this is going to sound whiny- I am very rapidly getting sick of hearing about what a big deal The Avengers is.

therockdemon:
i was looking forward to this coming out, mabey i will give it a miss then

I wouldn't do that. One piece of advice (and this has nothing to do with price) but ones satisfaction with something can almost always correlate with how much something cost. So if you go to a matinee with a buddy or something, I think you'll like this movie alot more than you think.

I don't normally watch reviews BEFORE I see a movie, and I went into Cowboys & Aliens sorta knowing nothing more than what I might have gleaned from the trailer.

I give it one and a half thumbs up, if you can allow yourself to just enjoy a story.

Oh and Movie Bob, Bob, or whatever you prefer to be called, I just have to say that "Sloppy Nonsense Monsters" is certainly NOT what I took away from Cloverfield. I'll have to look and see if you did (you probably did) a review on it, so I can get a little context, but I thought that movie flippin rocked. Seriously, I would like to see you in that dark subway, and call those ugly bastards "Sloppy Nonsense Monsters" to their face.

Yeah, you'd piss yourself or run, just like the rest of us.

it remind me how i downloaded Dark Void and still finished it only because there was no other game and i wasnt in mood for mmos.

the trailer dint really grab me. just really looked silly. sure it has good actors in it and miss hotty wilde but if a trailer cant really get my attention then i highly doubt the movie can be any good. not surprised to hear that the movie is not worth watching.

Bob needs to stop watching movies for like, 5 years or so. Then he can come back and appreciate silliness like this.

Was it just me or did everybody who died die too easily and too poetically?

There were a lot of last words.

I was hoping somebody would puke or pass out or jabber incoherently while the other character has to listen because its the last moments of somebody's life.

At least nobody had a flashback while they were kicking the bucket.

therockdemon:
i was looking forward to this coming out, mabey i will give it a miss then

Why?

If you were looking forward to it, why let someone elses opinion spoil it for you?

Just see it and decide for yourself.

Abandon4093:

therockdemon:
i was looking forward to this coming out, mabey i will give it a miss then

Why?

If you were looking forward to it, why let someone elses opinion spoil it for you?

Just see it and decide for yourself.

although i trust movie bob's review, alot of people have said that it is worth watching it anyway so i think i will, i'll report back when i have seen it (its not out in the uk till the 19 of aug) and hope it is worth the 15

Okay, I'm going to defend this film. I'm not saying it deserves an Oscar but it was a solid summer film and was fun to watch. I am not sure what everyone was expecting from this piece to be so horribly disappointed.

Was it formulaic? Somewhat. What is predictable? Yea.

It was a WESTERN.

It was a Western more or less where everyone pulls together, gets on their horses and goes to find their missing loved ones. Except their loved ones are in the clutches of aliens rather than Native Americans or Outlaws or whatever.

The parallel between the Native Americans and the settlers and the aliens - wasn't addressed cause it didn't really need to be. The settlers of the time did not see themselves that way. We have a good chunk of time behind us to look back on so WE see the parallels. They wouldn't. Throwing in a blatant mention of it would have been an odd PC Aesop toss in. We HAD the parallel of the aliens see us as insects and underestimate us, Dolarhyde insults and underestimates the tribe's weapons and battle tactics.

We DID have parallels in the film, just less leaden ones. We had the whole Greed aspect in spades, it was the driving force that kept the two leads from trusting each other, and it was the whole reason the aliens were there.

Honestly I went into this expecting some B movie quality entertainment and was pleasantly surprised.

Lissa-QUON:
Okay, I'm going to defend this film. I'm not saying it deserves an Oscar but it was a solid summer film and was fun to watch. I am not sure what everyone was expecting from this piece to be so horribly disappointed.

Was it formulaic? Somewhat. What is predictable? Yea.

It was a WESTERN.

It was a Western more or less where everyone pulls together, gets on their horses and goes to find their missing loved ones. Except their loved ones are in the clutches of aliens rather than Native Americans or Outlaws or whatever.

The parallel between the Native Americans and the settlers and the aliens - wasn't addressed cause it didn't really need to be. The settlers of the time did not see themselves that way. We have a good chunk of time behind us to look back on so WE see the parallels. They wouldn't. Throwing in a blatant mention of it would have been an odd PC Aesop toss in. We HAD the parallel of the aliens see us as insects and underestimate us, Dolarhyde insults and underestimates the tribe's weapons and battle tactics.

We DID have parallels in the film, just less leaden ones. We had the whole Greed aspect in spades, it was the driving force that kept the two leads from trusting each other, and it was the whole reason the aliens were there.

Honestly I went into this expecting some B movie quality entertainment and was pleasantly surprised.

It was tainted by virtue of the Five Degrees of Someone That Sideshow Bob Loathes (Abrams). It never had a chance.

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