Diablo III's Auction House

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DarkTenka:
I dont see how this changes ANYTHING at all.. RMT is/was/and will always exist. You nay-sayers seem to forget that you have NEVER played a multiplayer RPG game that didnt have players who RMT'd .. your ideal game-world is IMPOSSIBLE. As long as two human beings can give each other money and can at the same time somehow give each other items in game .. there is GOING to be RMT. Deal with it.

At least this way people arent making money out of blizzard without them getting something in return.

At least this way there will be a significant reduction in the amount of people getting scammed and crying to blizzard about how their accs/items/money has been stolen.

At least this way it gives US - the gamers a way of competing AGAINST the chinese gold farmers by allowing is to sell off our possibly $100 epic unique items or what ever.

Are you oblivious to how the Diablo economy works? The entire reason this auction house will be a mess is that gold farmers can undercut people to ridiculous amounts, meaning that the U.S. players in fact WON'T get to compete against the gold farmers. All this does is provide the gold farmers liquidity.

Well, seeing as how no one has done this here, I'll bring up TotalHalibut's points he made about this in the previous D3 thread. Basically, I agree with the points he brings up.

Are you oblivious to how the Diablo economy works? The entire reason this auction house will be a mess is that gold farmers can undercut people to ridiculous amounts, meaning that the U.S. players in fact WON'T get to compete against the gold farmers. All this does is provide the gold farmers liquidity.

Are you serious? you realise that most D2 players were ok with NEVER making any money right? Most players didnt even touch RMT .. and played for and traded entirely for in game currency/items.

Hell id be fine if I sold a WF for $1. You're telling me that gold farmers can UNDERCUT when they actually CARE about how much profit theyre making?

If they undercut .. we undercut them back .. eventually the items themselves arent worth RMT and nobody makes any money. That wont happen though .. when I say "compete" i didnt mean it gives us a chance at business venture in D3 Items (although that could entirely be possible as well). I meant it gives us an easy means of selling the occasional item, whereas before we had none unless we had a really trustworthy person to sell to.

But hey if they want to undercut until everything is value-less im fine with that too, because then it just returns to IN-GAME currency trading rather than RMT.

fundayz:
I don't understand what makes you think that this will auto-stabilize the economy. Regular players will NOT be able to compete against the prices set by gold/item farming groups.

Ilyak1986:
The entire reason this auction house will be a mess is that gold farmers can undercut people to ridiculous amounts, meaning that the U.S. players in fact WON'T get to compete against the gold farmers. All this does is provide the gold farmers liquidity.

It seems that both of you have overlooked one of the key points that Blizzard have stated about the RMT AH.
The 3 fees attached to them.

Now, if you intend to sell items for profit to then cash out into paypal or whatever they let you link it with, you have no right to bitch and moan about what they do, as you are doing the SAME THING.

If you do not however do the above, you have less fees in the AH, letting you undercut the above past a break-even listing and still turn a profit.

YAY! another game in which people who pay for items and spend cash on the game will seriously over power players who don't have expendable income to throw around....AWESOME! yeah seriously. This is just pushing my care for blizzard further away.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/08/02/blizzard-on-diablo-3-gold-farmers-and-players-really-doing-the-same-activity/
-Executive producer Rob Pardo replied: "Theoretically that's true, but I mean there's really nothing... what's the difference between a player that plays the game a lot and a gold farmer? I mean they're really doing the same activity."-

I wonder how many of these mistakes it will take him to be promoted to Executed Producer.

hyzaku:
Why exactly can't we buy and sell with the in-game currency? Why must real money get involved if this is really to "facilitate trading?"

I gotta say, I smell Kotick all over this.

Blizzard and Activision are two separate entities. Don't give me this hogwash that Activision is the evil money grubbing company and Blizzard the innocent bystander that gets dragged along. Blizzard is just as bad as Activision, they put unnecessary charges on things before Activision became involved (like paying $25 for a server transfer in World of Warcraft).

That being said, this new feature is entirely optional. Like people could avoid paying real money for D2 items (which was illegal), you can now avoid paying real money for D3 items (which has now been made legal through their own auction house.

The only thing it reeks of is a new business model.

Donnyp:
YAY! another game in which people who pay for items and spend cash on the game will seriously over power players who don't have expendable income to throw around....AWESOME! yeah seriously. This is just pushing my care for blizzard further away.

If you played D2 then you have already experienced this.

You can play entirely on your own in D3 if you wish .. since a large portion of the game is co-op then I don't see how people are "paying to overpower you". If you don't want their help in co-op then dont play with them .. if you want to compete against them in PvP then you can acquire and trade for the same items that they bought.

DarkTenka:

Are you oblivious to how the Diablo economy works? The entire reason this auction house will be a mess is that gold farmers can undercut people to ridiculous amounts, meaning that the U.S. players in fact WON'T get to compete against the gold farmers. All this does is provide the gold farmers liquidity.

Are you serious? you realise that most D2 players were ok with NEVER making any money right? Most players didnt even touch RMT .. and played for and traded entirely for in game currency/items.

Hell id be fine if I sold a WF for $1. You're telling me that gold farmers can UNDERCUT when they actually CARE about how much profit theyre making?

If they undercut .. we undercut them back .. eventually the items themselves arent worth RMT and nobody makes any money. That wont happen though .. when I say "compete" i didnt mean it gives us a chance at business venture in D3 Items (although that could entirely be possible as well). I meant it gives us an easy means of selling the occasional item, whereas before we had none unless we had a really trustworthy person to sell to.

But hey if they want to undercut until everything is value-less im fine with that too, because then it just returns to IN-GAME currency trading rather than RMT.

How can you be ok with the elimination of item-for-item trade?
That was one of the fun parts, you find some rare stuff and trade it in for this specific rune you wanted.
The only one profitting is Blizzard with all the fees associated with the ingame ah and it won't kill off the black market at all.

Azure Sky:

It seems that both of you have overlooked one of the key points that Blizzard have stated about the RMT AH.
The 3 fees attached to them.

Now, if you intend to sell items for profit to then cash out into paypal or whatever they let you link it with, you have no right to bitch and moan about what they do, as you are doing the SAME THING.

If you do not however do the above, you have less fees in the AH, letting you undercut the above past a break-even listing and still turn a profit.

You didn't make you point clear. Do you mean that:

A) The fees are going to stop RMTers from undercutting regular players?

or

B) The fees are going to stop RMTers from selling items in bulk?

If you meant A), then /facepalm. First of all, Blizzard has explicitly said that they are not going to influence the economy in any way. Setting the fees high enough to prevent undercutting goes COMPLETELY against EVERYTHING they've said regarding the RMAH. Secondly, if the fees are going to prevent the prices of high quality items from dropping too low then they will also be too high to allow the sale of cheap, common items without a loss.

If you meant B), then /doublefacepalm. Everyone pays the same fees! The person selling 1 item gets charged the same amount per item as the RMTer selling 1000 of them. The RMT might end up paying more total fees but they are also making more total profit. The fee:profit ratio is the same whether you sell 1 item or 1000.

P.S. The fact that there are 3 different fees for what is essentially a single service(selling in-game items/gold/character for real world cash) further shows that the whole reason Blizzard is doing this is to milk their very loyal playerbase. It's disgusting.

bakan:

How can you be ok with the elimination of item-for-item trade?
That was one of the fun parts, you find some rare stuff and trade it in for this specific rune you wanted.
The only one profitting is Blizzard with all the fees associated with the ingame ah and it won't kill off the black market at all.

Umm ... I had not heard that Item for Item trade had been completely eliminated?

At least you should know that there is both a RMT AH and an in-game GOLD AH right?

The in-game gold AH should be good enough for me, although I think there should be the ability to trade items for items.

DarkTenka:

bakan:

How can you be ok with the elimination of item-for-item trade?
That was one of the fun parts, you find some rare stuff and trade it in for this specific rune you wanted.
The only one profitting is Blizzard with all the fees associated with the ingame ah and it won't kill off the black market at all.

Umm ... I had not heard that Item for Item trade had been completely eliminated?

At least you should know that there is both a RMT AH and an in-game GOLD AH right?

The in-game gold AH should be good enough for me, although I think there should be the ability to trade items for items.

I mean that the existence of an ah eliminates item-for-item trade in the end, as everyone wants to get a little out of the ah and as I said the only one profiting is Blizzard.
They could have easily implemented offline mode and allow mods while offline, let your fun chars join the open battle.net and still have a mod free closed battle.net.
Always online is just a petty excuse to force your playerbase near the ah which is Blizzards new cash-cow and control them.

DarkTenka:

At least you should know that there is both a RMT AH and an in-game GOLD AH right?

The in-game gold AH should be good enough for me, although I think there should be the ability to trade items for items.

You realize that the GAH and RMAH are just two sides of the same market right?

Their currencies are interchangeable and will therefore affect each other. This wouldn't be the case if gold wasn't buyable/sellable, but unfortunately it is.

What you will find is that gold will quickly lose it's value as gold farmers pump more and more of it into the game, causing normal means of gold acquisition to become obsolete.

Unless you resort to gold buying you will find yourself locked out of both the GAH and RMAH.

It happened in Lineage 2, among others, and it will happen in Diablo 3 as well.

bakan:

DarkTenka:

bakan:

How can you be ok with the elimination of item-for-item trade?
That was one of the fun parts, you find some rare stuff and trade it in for this specific rune you wanted.
The only one profitting is Blizzard with all the fees associated with the ingame ah and it won't kill off the black market at all.

Umm ... I had not heard that Item for Item trade had been completely eliminated?

At least you should know that there is both a RMT AH and an in-game GOLD AH right?

The in-game gold AH should be good enough for me, although I think there should be the ability to trade items for items.

I mean that the existence of an ah eliminates item-for-item trade in the end, as everyone wants to get a little out of the ah and as I said the only one profiting is Blizzard.
They could have easily implemented offline mode and allow mods while offline, let your fun chars join the open battle.net and still have a mod free closed battle.net.
Always online is just a petty excuse to force your playerbase near the ah which is Blizzards new cash-cow and control them.

Item for Item trades in D2 were mostly "trade for soj's" (1.09 and before) or "trade for hr's" (post 1.10) anyway. The only thing that changes here is that GOLD is .. according to bliz .. actually viable as a currency. And therefore gold replaces HR's/Sojs from D2. As for item to item actual trades, well it will be missed but all it means is selling for gold and then buying the item you want with gold.

The only really good thing about item to item trades, was that prices fluctuated so much and certain items value was so rough that you could rip people off much easier. That was fun .. but its clear that Blizzard is trying as hard as it can to take all the "cut-throat" out of Diablo 3, unfortunately ..

fundayz:

Azure Sky:

It seems that both of you have overlooked one of the key points that Blizzard have stated about the RMT AH.
The 3 fees attached to them.

Now, if you intend to sell items for profit to then cash out into paypal or whatever they let you link it with, you have no right to bitch and moan about what they do, as you are doing the SAME THING.

If you do not however do the above, you have less fees in the AH, letting you undercut the above past a break-even listing and still turn a profit.

You didn't make you point clear. Do you mean that:

A) The fees are going to stop RMTers from undercutting regular players?

or

B) The fees are going to stop RMTers from selling items in bulk?

If you meant A), then /facepalm. First of all, Blizzard has explicitly said that they are not going to influence the economy in any way. Setting the fees high enough to prevent undercutting goes COMPLETELY against EVERYTHING they've said regarding the RMAH. Secondly, if the fees are going to prevent the prices of high quality items from dropping too low then they will also be too high to allow the sale of cheap, common items without a loss.

If you meant B), then /doublefacepalm. Everyone pays the same fees! The person selling 1 item gets charged the same amount per item as the RMTer selling 1000 of them. The RMT might end up paying more total fees but they are also making more total profit. The fee:profit ratio is the same whether you sell 1 item or 1000.

If you honestly think I meant B you are dumber than you look.
First off, I am going to refference one of the images that came out of the recent media event.
It listed an item in the AH for 5$.
Now, for example we say that the Listing and sales fees are 1$ purely for easy maths. the cashout fee was not defined from memory, but logically it would be a percentage, lets call it 10% for easy maths.

RMTer lists his +1 sword of n00bslaying for 5$.
This means that his profit if it sold would be 3.60$ (listing is refunded on the sale, sale fee is 1$, and seeing as its an RMTer, he would cash out and have the cashout fee.)

I come along with the same item and want to sell it.
I can list it like this: No listing fee (Because I would have a few free listings /week, something RMTers would blow within minutes)
So I can list it without worrying it wont sell. Add the 1$ sale fee.
Then count the fact I would probably use the winnings on something like WoW time, so I don't cashout, no fee.
Letting me list the same item at 4.60 - well under the RMTer, and still make the same profit, 3.60$
Better yet, I only undercut him by 10 cents and make more than he will?

As for your argument of cheap, common items? That's what the gold AH is for.

fundayz:

You realize that the GAH and RMAH are just two sides of the same market right?

Their currencies are interchangeable and will therefore affect each other. This wouldn't be the case if gold wasn't buyable/sellable, but unfortunately it is.

What you will find is that gold will quickly lose it's value as gold farmers pump more and more of it into the game, causing normal means of gold acquisition to become obsolete.

Unless you resort to gold buying you will find yourself locked out of both the GAH and RMAH.

It happened in Lineage 2, among others, and it will happen in Diablo 3 as well.

Well.. that COULD be true .. but it depends on how useful and scarce gold really is. WoW currently suffers from loads of Gold farming .. and yet Gold is still a viable currency and Gold can still be acquired in-game yourself. Based on that .. all they need to do is make it so there is enough gold-sink activities to use up the gold as its being produced.

We know that its going to be used in all sorts of crafting, im sure there is more..

I really hope they don't decide to have WoW style heavy repair costs though :/ .. heres hoping they have something different.

DarkTenka:

Donnyp:
YAY! another game in which people who pay for items and spend cash on the game will seriously over power players who don't have expendable income to throw around....AWESOME! yeah seriously. This is just pushing my care for blizzard further away.

If you played D2 then you have already experienced this.

You can play entirely on your own in D3 if you wish .. since a large portion of the game is co-op then I don't see how people are "paying to overpower you". If you don't want their help in co-op then dont play with them .. if you want to compete against them in PvP then you can acquire and trade for the same items that they bought.

I actually got to the point in D2 that i entered a game and people knew who i was...I stopped playing lol. I played and got extremely good at D2. I enjoyed the multiplayer. I barely ever ran into someone who was able to slaughter me with ease. But when you have an Auction house it is only a matter of time till they start releasing "Buy only Items" that no one is willing to trade. I love playing online in games like this. And they are ruining it. I enjoy doing PVP and co-op but with this system they will ruin it. Not to mention the always online thing. I may love Multiplayer on games like this but i also enjoy single player away from the internet.

Azure Sky:

It listed an item in the AH for 5$.
Now, for example we say that the Listing and sales fees are 1$ purely for easy maths. the cashout fee was not defined from memory, but logically it would be a percentage, lets call it 10% for easy maths.

RMTer lists his +1 sword of n00bslaying for 5$.
This means that his profit if it sold would be 3.60$ (listing is refunded on the sale, sale fee is 1$, and seeing as its an RMTer, he would cash out and have the cashout fee.)

I come along with the same item and want to sell it.
I can list it like this: No listing fee (Because I would have a few free listings /week, something RMTers would blow within minutes)
So I can list it without worrying it wont sell. Add the 1$ sale fee.
Then count the fact I would probably use the winnings on something like WoW time, so I don't cashout, no fee.
Letting me list the same item at 4.60 - well under the RMTer, and still make the same profit, 3.60$
Better yet, I only undercut him by 10 cents and make more than he will?

As for your argument of cheap, common items? That's what the gold AH is for.

First of all, you don't get a number of free listings per week, you get a number of free listings per account. http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/714985/diablo-3-auction-house-faq-and-information/

Secondly, you have never player a game with hardcore RMT have you?

Chinese gold farmers won't post it at $5 dollars, they'll post it at $3 because they have exploited 3rd world labour, bots, hacked accounts, etc

Finally, you realize that the GAH is just an extension of the RMAH right? Since gold and real money are exchangeable this means that these are just two sides of the same coin. The GAH prices WILL be affected by the RMAH.

Donnyp:

I actually got to the point in D2 that i entered a game and people knew who i was...I stopped playing lol. I played and got extremely good at D2. I enjoyed the multiplayer. I barely ever ran into someone who was able to slaughter me with ease. But when you have an Auction house it is only a matter of time till they start releasing "Buy only Items" that no one is willing to trade. I love playing online in games like this. And they are ruining it. I enjoy doing PVP and co-op but with this system they will ruin it. Not to mention the always online thing. I may love Multiplayer on games like this but i also enjoy single player away from the internet.

If that truely becomes the case, then all you have to do is MF till you find something of equal value and stick it on the RMT AH until it sells. You get 5 free listings a week .. so if you're patient you can eventually get it to sell .. you can then spend that money from your "b.net bank" on other items on the RMT AH. So its a tad harder .. but those RMT-only items are certainly not out of reach to normal players.

fundayz:

Azure Sky:

It listed an item in the AH for 5$.
Now, for example we say that the Listing and sales fees are 1$ purely for easy maths. the cashout fee was not defined from memory, but logically it would be a percentage, lets call it 10% for easy maths.

RMTer lists his +1 sword of n00bslaying for 5$.
This means that his profit if it sold would be 3.60$ (listing is refunded on the sale, sale fee is 1$, and seeing as its an RMTer, he would cash out and have the cashout fee.)

I come along with the same item and want to sell it.
I can list it like this: No listing fee (Because I would have a few free listings /week, something RMTers would blow within minutes)
So I can list it without worrying it wont sell. Add the 1$ sale fee.
Then count the fact I would probably use the winnings on something like WoW time, so I don't cashout, no fee.
Letting me list the same item at 4.60 - well under the RMTer, and still make the same profit, 3.60$
Better yet, I only undercut him by 10 cents and make more than he will?

As for your argument of cheap, common items? That's what the gold AH is for.

First of all, you don't get a number of free listings per week, you get a number of free listings per account. http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/714985/diablo-3-auction-house-faq-and-information/

Secondly, you have never player a game with hardcore RMT have you?

Chinese gold farmers won't post it at $5 dollars, they'll post it at $3 because they have exploited 3rd world labour, bots, hacked accounts, etc

Finally, you realize that the GAH is just an extension of the RMAH right? Since gold and real money are exchangeable this means that these are just two sides of the same coin. The GAH prices WILL be affected by the RMAH.

And yet my info has said a few per/w. So unless this come out of Blizz's mouth directly, we will have to wait and see.

Secondly, due to the cashout fee, someone listing to cashout will NEVER be able to undercut someone listing without the intention of cashing out, as they will be the ones to list at a loss, however slight.

Thirdly, the only people that are getting pissy about this are the ones that a) don't know better, b) are white knighting on 'how can they do this to us' or c) people who are intending to do the same thing as the RMTers, use D3 for profit and see RMTers as a threat to that.

A) can learn
B) can sit in a corner an boycott
C) are a pack of hypocrites

Where do you fall in this?

fundayz:

First of all, you don't get a number of free listings per week, you get a number of free listings per account. http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/714985/diablo-3-auction-house-faq-and-information/

Bashiok: The system will allow for a certain number of free listings per week (or something like that) which allows you to post a few things risk free and see if they sell. If they don't it's no sweat for you, and maybe you wait until next week to do the same thing again, or maybe that was good enough, you got your feet wet, and you go back to the gold AH.

If you do sell something you can use that to build up your Battle.net balance which can be put toward buying items yourself. If you're putting up the right items for the right prices you could pretty easily never 'buy in'.

Taken from diii.net - an excerpt from one of Bashiok's official posts on b.net forums.

Azure Sky:
SNIP
Where do you fall in this?

W/e guy, I've layed out argument after argument based on real world examples, I've provided logical reasoning for all of them and even provided sources for my facts. All your arguments rely on complete assumption ("RMTers won't be able to undercut if they want to cashout and still make money").

You don't seem to understand the potential of RMTers when they are let loose, likely due to lack of experience with them.

P.S. I fall in the group that doesn't want Blizzard to sell power.

fundayz:

P.S. I fall in the group that doesn't want Blizzard to sell power.

Azure Sky:
... b) are white knighting on 'how can they do this to us' ...

So... B then.

DarkTenka:

So... B then.

Sure, what about you?

And I'm guessing you are okay with Blizzard legitimizing the sale of in-game power for out-of-game resources?

fundayz:

DarkTenka:

So... B then.

Sure, what about you?

And I'm guessing you are okay with Blizzard legitimizing the sale of in-game power for out-of-game resources?

He is probably in the same boat I am.
The 'it could work, lets wait and see' one.

fundayz:

DarkTenka:

So... B then.

Sure, what about you?

And I'm guessing you are okay with Blizzard legitimizing the sale of in-game power for out-of-game resources?

Sure .. I'll deal with it the same way I did in D2 .. NOT CARE .. lol.

The amount of times I rofl stomped an ith/64 ll ammy zon with nothing but my lowly Dual Claw assassin equipped with 2 Bartucs claws and shaftstop/gaze. If players want to pay for items without playing the game .. they miss out on vital experience. Diablo 2 was very much 50% character building and 50% hand-eye co-ordination .. if a newbie wants to pay for their items to meet half of those requirements, then I can meet them on the other half.

That said .. you can still earn EVERYTHING that is on the either AH in-game .. even if its an experienced player who buys his items for real money .. it makes no difference to me how he got them. As long as I can get them myself in some form or fashion we are still on equal ground as far as I'm concerned.

Azure Sky:
He is probably in the same boat I am.
The 'it could work, lets wait and see' one.

Even if gold/item farmers suddenly disappeared you would still have players buying in-game power using out of game resources from other players.

So I guess I'll ask you too: Are okay with Blizzard legitimizing the sale of in-game power for out-of-game resources?

DarkTenka:

fundayz:

And I'm guessing you are okay with Blizzard legitimizing the sale of in-game power for out-of-game resources?

Sure

Then there's nothing left to say.

fundayz:

DarkTenka:

fundayz:

And I'm guessing you are okay with Blizzard legitimizing the sale of in-game power for out-of-game resources?

Sure

Then there's nothing left to say.

Because there is no possible reason that this is ok?

You remind me of the Australian Christian Lobby .. "I am right, and despite all logic and reason everyone else is wrong" .. lol

Don't take the fun out of a reasonable debate .. its really childish.

fundayz:

Azure Sky:
He is probably in the same boat I am.
The 'it could work, lets wait and see' one.

Even if gold/item farmers suddenly disappeared you would still have players buying in-game power using out of game resources from other players.

So I guess I'll ask you too: Are okay with Blizzard legitimizing the sale of in-game power for out-of-game resources?

Here's an idea, and no I'm not being nice either.

Pick up your bat and ball, open another thread about boycotting the game, have a little tea party and moan to other like-minded people.

Those of us that have a higher moral standard than "Omg how can we let them do that to us" don't care. We will make a logical decision weather we are buying the game based on information that arises between now and release, not the rantings of a butt-hurt White-Knight.

Azure Sky:
SNIP

So you do think it's okay to sell in-game power for out-of-game resources? You didn't answer the question...

DarkTenka:

fundayz:

DarkTenka:

Sure

Then there's nothing left to say.

Because there is no possible reason that this is ok?

You remind me of the Australian Christian Lobby .. "I am right, and despite all logic and reason everyone else is wrong" .. lol

Don't take the fun out of a reasonable debate .. its really childish.

Now you are just trolling. I never said that it wasn't okay. There is nothing left to say because we have fundamentally different beliefs and neither is going to change their mind.

So you do think it's okay to sell in-game power for out-of-game resources? You didn't answer the question...

Yes .. it is ok.. lol.

fundayz:

Now you are just trolling. I never said that it wasn't okay. There is nothing left to say because we have fundamentally different beliefs and neither is going to change their mind.

You trolled me when you implied that there was no reason to continue talking based on ONE word from my post where I actually went at length to explain my reasoning.

..

Care to explain YOUR beliefs then?

That's your own assumption, and I have made my beliefs clear enough.

fundayz:

Azure Sky:
SNIP

So you do think it's okay to sell in-game power for out-of-game resources? You didn't answer the question...

And you expect me to waste my time with a long detailed answer for you?

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