Diablo III's Auction House

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
 

Azure Sky:

fundayz:

Azure Sky:
SNIP

So you do think it's okay to sell in-game power for out-of-game resources? You didn't answer the question...

And you expect me to waste my time with a long detailed answer for you?

I forgot that yes or no questions require such long detailed answers...

It sounds a lot like you don't want to answer the question.

fundayz:

Azure Sky:

fundayz:

So you do think it's okay to sell in-game power for out-of-game resources? You didn't answer the question...

And you expect me to waste my time with a long detailed answer for you?

I forgot that yes or no questions require such long detailed answers...

It sounds a lot like you don't want to answer the question.

Validate my reasoning more, go on.

fundayz:
That's your own assumption, and I have made my beliefs clear enough.

Then why are you here? .. to spread your belief? or have a discussion?

Because I garantee .. no one here is interested in your "beliefs" .. we are however ready for a discussion.

Azure Sky:
Validate my reasoning more, go on.

I'll just mark that down as "Yes, I believe it is okay to sell in-game power for out-of-game resources".

fundayz:

Azure Sky:
Validate my reasoning more, go on.

I'll just mark that down as "Yes, I believe it is okay to sell in-game power for out-of-game resources".

I think we are done here.

DarkTenka:

fundayz:
That's your own assumption, and I have made my beliefs clear enough.

Then why are you here? .. to spread your belief? or have a discussion?

Because I garantee .. no one here is interested in your "beliefs" .. we are however ready for a discussion.

He Doesn't have one unfortunately.

Seems that way .. >_>

Azure Sky:

fundayz:

Azure Sky:
He is probably in the same boat I am.
The 'it could work, lets wait and see' one.

Even if gold/item farmers suddenly disappeared you would still have players buying in-game power using out of game resources from other players.

So I guess I'll ask you too: Are okay with Blizzard legitimizing the sale of in-game power for out-of-game resources?

Here's an idea, and no I'm not being nice either.

Pick up your bat and ball, open another thread about boycotting the game, have a little tea party and moan to other like-minded people.

Those of us that have a higher moral standard than "Omg how can we let them do that to us" don't care. We will make a logical decision weather we are buying the game based on information that arises between now and release, not the rantings of a butt-hurt White-Knight.

Hmm...you actually have lower standards as you let corporations do as they wish...

bakan:

Azure Sky:

fundayz:

Even if gold/item farmers suddenly disappeared you would still have players buying in-game power using out of game resources from other players.

So I guess I'll ask you too: Are okay with Blizzard legitimizing the sale of in-game power for out-of-game resources?

Here's an idea, and no I'm not being nice either.

Pick up your bat and ball, open another thread about boycotting the game, have a little tea party and moan to other like-minded people.

Those of us that have a higher moral standard than "Omg how can we let them do that to us" don't care. We will make a logical decision weather we are buying the game based on information that arises between now and release, not the rantings of a butt-hurt White-Knight.

Hmm...you actually have lower standards as you let corporations do as they wish...

I 'let' them?
Corps can what they want with their games, I will decide my wallet when it comes out if I think it is right.
If people want to whine and whine to try and influence others in what to believe then they are even worse then the corps.

Azure Sky:

bakan:
snip

I 'let' them?
Corps can what they want with their games, I will decide my wallet when it comes out if I think it is right.
If people want to whine and whine to try and influence others in what to believe then they are even worse then the corps.

Well, if you don't criticise bad systems and dumped down versions of previous games you obviously don't care which games are getting produced and criticising these faults isn't like playing the 'white knight'

bakan:

Azure Sky:

bakan:
snip

I 'let' them?
Corps can what they want with their games, I will decide my wallet when it comes out if I think it is right.
If people want to whine and whine to try and influence others in what to believe then they are even worse then the corps.

Well, if you don't criticise bad systems and dumped down versions of previous games you obviously don't care which games are getting produced and criticising these faults isn't like playing the 'white knight'

There is not enough evidence to to go either way, as we are unable to make a non-hearsay argument without seeing the system in active use.

I personally see the benefits in the system, not just the bad.

It may sound like I am arguing in Blizzards favor, but it is more like playing the devils advocate.

bakan:

Well, if you don't criticise bad systems and dumped down versions of previous games you obviously don't care which games are getting produced and criticising these faults isn't like playing the 'white knight'

If you criticise them based on some kind of logical reasoning .. then that is true.

However to criticise them based on some kind of "belief" .. that is as white as knights come.

The only thing I have heard against this system is spoutings of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt .. with no logical reasoning behind them. Also to condemn a system "simply because it causes profit to the party in question" is the same thing. Blizzard profitting from Chinese Gold Farmers is not a reason why it will be bad for us .. if anything it just makes sense. In a way Chinese Gold farmers are engaging in "Virtual piracy" .. since they are making money from digital media created by blizzard, in which blizzard receives none of the profits.

This way Blizzard recieves money that they are DUE.

All of the crap about how it will effect the econemy is just speculation ..

Since A: Its not out yet .. we have no REAL idea on how it will work.

And B: Gold farming already exists in every MMO out there .. are you going to tell me that ALL of their Econemies are broken because of it? In WoW .. Gold still works as a currency .. in Eve ISK is STILL currency ..

It seems to me that people want to think of their progression in these MMO's as if someone else having more money than them means they are somehow losing.. which is rediculous.

fundayz:

You are looking at the wrong thing. You focus on potential power when you need to be looking at actual power.

Do you believe that it is fair for Player B to use real currency to buy an advantage that will help him advance through the game faster and more easily than Player A, even though they are equal in skill and time played?

Do you believe that it is fair for Player A to be at a statistical disadvantage for the entire time that it takes him to catch up to Player B?

Yes. I think it's fair. The potential power will always remain the same for both players and the actual power will only diverge for the amount of time it takes for Player A to catch up to Player B. It's fair because the system does not make one player indefinitely more powerful than the other player.

How do you expect Player A to catch up to Player B when Player B has already obtained a statistical advantage (remember that they are equal in skill and play time)?

In the case that Player A does inexplicably catch up to Player B, what is stopping Player B from simply purchasing better items and more gold once again?

As you can see, a paying player will always have an advantage over a non-paying player even if everything else is equal between them.

There's a finite pool of items and gear. Given enough time or money, both players are able to access the highest tier of gear available. Player B may get there first, but Player A, if he is willing to play more, can catch up to Player B.

P.S. We haven't even factored in the havoc that RMT companies will wreck on the GAH and RMAH.

Any prediction of economic impact of RMT and RMT companies on the auction houses is entirely speculative at this point. RMT companies will most likely drive down the value of gold and items, but we don't know by how much or if their impact will destroy D3's economy. But we don't know the details of how D3's economy will function and what tricks Blizzard may/may not have in store to keep it from falling apart. It's entirely unfair to assume failure as a premise to an argument here.

When I first heard of all this I wasn't too put off. I mostly play online anyway, I'm just not going to use the real money auction and I may even get a couple of quid selling out when I'm done. But the more I think about the more I think I might have to cancel my pre-order.

Loot is a big deal in Diablo, it can make a tenfold difference in the strength of a character between average loot and the best loot. It has to be that way or else it's just not exciting. But it does mean in any group there's a chance of meeting someone who's spent £whatever on kitting out his character who is just making your presence redundant.

Also with gold farmers I expect the items will be fairly cheap, especially at lower levels. The commodotisation of items changes it from "Oh wow, a +2 to Fire Magic staff" to "Meh there's 20p on the ground there."

would that at some point that people will be able to give money for gold?
And thus make gold a non-efficient way to trade AGAIN has it was in Diablo 2

1) Player A buy really rare item for 10$ in the RM AH
2) Player A put the really rare item on the gold AH
3) Player A eventually get 10k gold for it
4) ????
5) Profit! (Player then now have 10k gold for the price of 10$)

those are just random number but I think some people will do that.
I really think it not a good idea.

DarkTenka:

Donnyp:

I actually got to the point in D2 that i entered a game and people knew who i was...I stopped playing lol. I played and got extremely good at D2. I enjoyed the multiplayer. I barely ever ran into someone who was able to slaughter me with ease. But when you have an Auction house it is only a matter of time till they start releasing "Buy only Items" that no one is willing to trade. I love playing online in games like this. And they are ruining it. I enjoy doing PVP and co-op but with this system they will ruin it. Not to mention the always online thing. I may love Multiplayer on games like this but i also enjoy single player away from the internet.

If that truely becomes the case, then all you have to do is MF till you find something of equal value and stick it on the RMT AH until it sells. You get 5 free listings a week .. so if you're patient you can eventually get it to sell .. you can then spend that money from your "b.net bank" on other items on the RMT AH. So its a tad harder .. but those RMT-only items are certainly not out of reach to normal players.

If i sold items i would cash out. I wouldn't do it so i can get other in game items. I would do it so i could get more money cause i is po' lol.

This is the problem I see with the RMAH: I am firmly against money=power. I don't care if the only way to get power is through spending time in the game. That's the point. Actually getting your power by playing the game.

I realize that this may inconvenience people who have more money than time because they work a full-time job or whatnot, but here's my logic: if you don't actually dedicate yourself to the game and don't really play the game, why should you suddenly be as good as those who have spent time playing the game?

It isn't so important what someone spent (time, money) as the fact that they played the game.

In fact, going back to Extra Credits' episode on the Skinner Box, a well-designed game would give you most of your rewards by being generally fun to play to begin with. None of these "bring me 20 bear asses" quests, but "play through the content we've provided for you and you'll be justly rewarded".

Now, here are two possible extreme disasters that can happen with the auction houses:

A: Chinese kiddies playing in sweatshops undercut everyone even before cashing out so that they can depress the economy, and then $10 will buy you a fully-stacked toon on par with 60 hours of MFing/trading/questing/looting/grinding if not more. It'd really defeat playing so much of the game. Oh hey, you cleared the endgame content with some friends? Oh cool. Now instead of MFing/trading/etc. so you can solo the entire game, instead, you just buy the epic gear of the almighty for $10 and roll everyone who doesn't.

B: Chinese gold farmers buy up a crapton of gold to depress the exchange rate (EG $1 = 10000 gold) and suddenly, nobody can use the GAH anymore, leaving out everyone who can't/won't use the RMAH, literally turning the game into pay to win unless, once again, you can barter with other players like you can in D2. Because if you can't, then suddenly, trading just gets clean taken out of the game.

As for me, the fun part about D2 for me was grinding/begging/haggling/MFing my way to a stacked toon through in-game means. I mean I said "oh hey this is my first toon, I gave you some WPs, can I have some free stuff" and got a lightsaber that I traded for an arachs that I traded for Tal Rasha's armor and a spirit monarch.

Sure, I could spend $10 and get a fully stacked sorcy, but once again, that defeats the entire purpose of playing the game for me.

LOL, I love the people here pretending that this kind of thing didn't happen in the D2 black market. "Oh real world money shouldn't influence the in-game experience!" it shouldn't but this is the real world, and there are people who are willing to pay money for other people to do the hard work for them.

Also, no one is forcing you to use the real world money auction house. You can still use the in-game currency auction house. All Blizzard is doing is giving players another option of how to do their trades and deals.

people are speculating that China is going to depress the market and make super rare items super common, and yeah, they do that in just about every game. What is the big deal?

You're being just as bad as the Zelda and Sonic fans. Stop complaining and just enjoy the goddamn game. Unlike the Megaman fans you guys will at least have a game to complain about. So at least be grateful for that.

orangeapples:
LOL, I love the people here pretending that this kind of thing didn't happen in the D2 black market. "Oh real world money shouldn't influence the in-game experience!" it shouldn't but this is the real world, and there are people who are willing to pay money for other people to do the hard work for them.

Also, no one is forcing you to use the real world money auction house. You can still use the in-game currency auction house. All Blizzard is doing is giving players another option of how to do their trades and deals.

people are speculating that China is going to depress the market and make super rare items super common, and yeah, they do that in just about every game. What is the big deal?

You're being just as bad as the Zelda and Sonic fans. Stop complaining and just enjoy the goddamn game. Unlike the Megaman fans you guys will at least have a game to complain about. So at least be grateful for that.

Bingo!

I am still waiting for the empty boycott threats.

Ilyak1986:
This is the problem I see with the RMAH: I am firmly against money=power. I don't care if the only way to get power is through spending time in the game. That's the point. Actually getting your power by playing the game.

Can Hardcore-mode characters use the currency-based auction house?

No.
Hardcore characters will only have the option to buy and sell items together with other Hardcore characters via a separate "Hardcore-only" gold-based auction house; they will not be able to use the currency-based auction house. Hardcore mode is designed as an optional experience for players who enjoy the sense of constant peril that comes with the possibility of permanent death for a character. All of a Hardcore character's items are forever lost upon that character's death, so to avoid the risk of a player spending real money on items that could then be permanently lost when the character dies, we decided restrict the use of the currency-based auction house in Hardcore mode.

There you go!
Single player, multi player, Casual, Hardcore, real Money Auction House, only the Gold Auction Hose. It's up to you

Or you can delude yourself that Blowtorch 2 will be just as good :D

Really anyone who spends money on in game items is a looser... A game is played for the reason of starting with nothing and ending up with everything, it ruins the point of the game.

So basically what's going to happen is people are going to advertise their items in the Auction House by setting the prices high, then they'll get people asking to buy the items and they'll do it through PayPal so the seller can actually have his money.

Blizzard are you really this stupid? This seemed like a good idea until I read this, I wouldn't have even minded you taking a commission from the profits but you just trying to keep all the money to yourselves seems bloody stupid.

Azure Sky:

I personally see the benefits in the system, not just the bad.

Lol you haven't looked at the good with the bad, you have refuted almost all criticism directed at the system.

P.S. You never answered if you think Money=Power is ok.

Nesco Nomen:

Ilyak1986:
This is the problem I see with the RMAH: I am firmly against money=power. I don't care if the only way to get power is through spending time in the game. That's the point. Actually getting your power by playing the game.

Can Hardcore-mode characters use the currency-based auction house No.

There you go!
Single player, multi player, Casual, Hardcore, real Money Auction House, only the Gold Auction Hose. It's up to you

Or you can delude yourself that Blowtorch 2 will be just as good :D

Too bad that in single player, multiplayer, and casual modes the Gold AH WILL be significantly influenced by RMAH, as it allows the sale of gold which can then be used on the Gold AH.

Even if I completely avoid the RMAH and only use the Gold AH I will STILL be affected by the RMAH.

What this means is that in order to have a completely RMT-free experience in a game you already paid for you must restrict myself to the mode in which death causes the player to lose everything instantly.

fundayz:

Azure Sky:

I personally see the benefits in the system, not just the bad.

Lol you haven't looked at the good with the bad, you have refuted almost all criticism directed at the system.

P.S. You never answered if you think Money=Power is ok.

Nesco Nomen:

Ilyak1986:
This is the problem I see with the RMAH: I am firmly against money=power. I don't care if the only way to get power is through spending time in the game. That's the point. Actually getting your power by playing the game.

Can Hardcore-mode characters use the currency-based auction house No.

There you go!
Single player, multi player, Casual, Hardcore, real Money Auction House, only the Gold Auction Hose. It's up to you

Or you can delude yourself that Blowtorch 2 will be just as good :D

Too bad that in single player, multiplayer, and casual modes the Gold AH WILL be significantly influenced by RMAH, as it allows the sale of gold which can then be used on the Gold AH.

Even if I completely avoid the RMAH and only use the Gold AH I will STILL be affected by the RMAH.

What this means is that in order to have a completely RMT-free experience in a game you already paid for you must restrict myself to the mode in which death causes the player to lose everything instantly.

Hurry up and start a boycott already, people stopped caring about your white knighting a while ago.

fundayz:

What this means is that in order to have a completely RMT-free experience in a game you already paid for you must restrict myself to the mode in which death causes the player to lose everything instantly.

Yup. There is no Soft Hardcore.

You're pro or you're a noob. That's life! :-)

Atheist.:

Baresark:

Atheist.:
I love how so many people are bitching about this. It isn't an MMO, you can always play offline. Plus pretty much every weapon has a level and stat requirement. What's so different from this and someone having a high level alt and feeding good items to their lower level character? Just because someone has a job/life and can't play until level 99 shouldn't be a severe handicap. You aren't really buying power as much as saving time grinding for items, which frankly, not everyone has time for.

Once the game gets old enough, the economy will balance out anyhow. It's not like people are going to get rich trying to sell items that thousands of other people have already found. I think this option is leagues better than before. Anyone else remember all the hacked shit that went on in the previous Diablo games? Yeah, I'm good on all that.

That is the same reasoning as to why it should be ok for gold farming and sales in WoW? And you can still use this to purchase more rare equipment for your character at the level they are at. The people who don't/can't participate will be at a disadvantage, and the game world will be out of balance. And, you can't play offline, you are always online with the system they have in place for this game.

Also, I'm getting sick of watching ads for the captcha. I know you want revenue, but fuck off.

Diablo isn't the same as WoW in terms of content. WoW is a literally a PVP based game. Horde vs Alliance. Diablo is primarily co-op or PVE game, with optional PVP content. Also, are you sure they completely removed single player? Every other Diablo game has had a single player component, granted you couldn't use that character online, but whatever. From what I understand, it's always online, but there is still a single player option, this is probably to prevent hacking.

My only issue with this is that it disturbes PVP balance, which isn't a major deal to me. Some people may have more of a problem with it, but if they care enough, they'll find time to farm their gear. Honestly, if someone wanted to get their epic sword of awesomeness +10 without this system, they'd just buy it online or find a way to hack it. This doesn't change a whole lot in my opinion, it just helps the sheep do it easier and safer.

The single player is intact, but it requires a constant internet connection, like AC2. This has a lot of people very upset. But, it's really just a single player game with a PVP component, and some co-op for good measure.

Azure Sky:
Hurry up and start a boycott already, people stopped caring about your white knighting a while ago.

Why would I start a boycott? I don't care whether people buy the game or not, I care about my gameplay experience, which the RMAH is going to affect.

oh I almost forgot, so do you think it's okay that money=power in diablo 3 or not? Yes or no, not a hard question.

OK you guys, it's official:

Best Paladin in the world fiercely supports Real money AH

Maybe close thread now?

fundayz:

Azure Sky:
Hurry up and start a boycott already, people stopped caring about your white knighting a while ago.

Why would I start a boycott? I don't care whether people buy the game or not, I care about my gameplay experience, which the RMAH is going to affect.

oh I almost forgot, so do you think it's okay that money=power in diablo 3 or not? Yes or no, not a hard question.

So you care if other people buy it or not? Make up your mind.

Still not going to waste my time with a detailed answer for you. keep waiting. =3

Nesco Nomen:
OK you guys, it's official:

Best Paladin in the world fiercely supports Real money AH

Maybe close thread now?

Smart guy, quite insightful.

They fight so hard to combat gold shopping in WoW that I think this is a very smart move. They'll make money for giving away data rights and they'll basically neutralize any sort of money website for Diablo 3. In the end, just another way for blizzard to make money and instead of being one of these "World of Warcraft is systematically robbing everyone who plays it" people, I've actually played the game enough to realize "Yes it is expensive, Yes the people are jerks but it's all worth it for the quality I get from a game that would have self destructed if it were in the hands of people who didn't do the kind of maintenance that they do on the game."

In conclusion, they handled WoW well and since Diablo 3 is looking more and more like blizzards next big social life replacement device I think by this point they know what they're doing.

Azure Sky:

fundayz:

Azure Sky:
Hurry up and start a boycott already, people stopped caring about your white knighting a while ago.

Why would I start a boycott? I don't care whether people buy the game or not, I care about MY gameplay experience, which the RMAH is going to affect.

oh I almost forgot, so do you think it's okay that money=power in diablo 3 or not? Yes or no, not a hard question.

So you care if other people buy it or not? Make up your mind.

Still not going to waste my time with a detailed answer for you. keep waiting. =3

When have I EVER said or implied that I cared if people bought the game or not? You are just making up stuff now.

And how on earth is "yes" or "no" a detailed answer? You are definitely afraid of answering.

fundayz:

Azure Sky:

fundayz:

Why would I start a boycott? I don't care whether people buy the game or not, I care about MY gameplay experience, which the RMAH is going to affect.

oh I almost forgot, so do you think it's okay that money=power in diablo 3 or not? Yes or no, not a hard question.

So you care if other people buy it or not? Make up your mind.

Still not going to waste my time with a detailed answer for you. keep waiting. =3

When have I EVER said or implied that I cared if people bought the game or not? You are just making up stuff now.

And how on earth is "yes" or "no" a detailed answer? You are definitely afraid of answering.

Keep on thinking that *Pats on head*

Side note, anyone interested in the beta and stuff, Blizz have changed their beta opt-in software.
Remember to update. =3

Siyano:
would that at some point that people will be able to give money for gold?
And thus make gold a non-efficient way to trade AGAIN has it was in Diablo 2

1) Player A buy really rare item for 10$ in the RM AH
2) Player A put the really rare item on the gold AH
3) Player A eventually get 10k gold for it
4) ????
5) Profit! (Player then now have 10k gold for the price of 10$)

those are just random number but I think some people will do that.
I really think it not a good idea.

Don't forget the part where chinese sweatshops step in and overrun the economy, effectively pushing legit players out.

Supporters of this system, I say to you "Enjoy being undercut by a few dollars and not being refunded your listing fee by Blizzard!"

Aeonknight:

Don't forget the part where chinese sweatshops step in and overrun the economy, effectively pushing legit players out.

Supporters of this system, I say to you "Enjoy being undercut by a few dollars and not being refunded your listing fee by Blizzard!"

And how exactly will Chinese players be able to stop "legit players" from trading to each other?

Harro Prease much??

Blizzard said it would work with a unknown third party for cashing out....Yay, hopefully the money in the game will stabilize the gold count so it doesn't go crazy like on WoW

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here