Jimquisition: Fight in the Name of Childishness

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Fight in the Name of Childishness

Maturity and reason are considered virtues in the realm of debate, but when one side insists on childishness, the other can never win. That side may think it'll prove itself superior with logic and facts, but you cannot teach the terminally stupid. You can only fight fire with the fire, and The Jimquisition embraces that.

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Oh really Jim? Not entirely sure on that. People can and often do surprise you with what they selectively choose to learn and adopt. Honestly right or wrong there is nothing wrong with expecting things to not boil down to the lowest common denominator.

A very interesting & valid point, but it saddens me to think that immaturity is the only way to get results.

It's effective alright, but I don't think I could live in a world where we all sink to Fox News level.

I will totally nominate myself to be the talking head to yells over people. It's an unfortunate truth, and I think Jim is right that we need someone willing to yell over the anti-gaming establishment.

Makes sense to me. Save the debates for the times when someone's face isn't being broadcast on FOX, MSNBC, or any other networks. They're mostly there for ratings when it comes to opinion pieces, like the SEXBOX bit. As the saying goes, "If it burns, it earns."

That said, I've heard about the lack of time that anchors get to research a topic before talking about it live, which seems to hold somewhat true for guests as well, but during the Geoff interview, he did manage to expose his opponent early by asking if she had actually played Mass Effect. Granted, most viewers missed it since it was all about the sex, but he did get something by being civil at first.

People can only put up with so much being chucked at them before they cave in, it's not delicate as a tactic, but it does work as 10 year old me will tell you.

You're never to old to be childish.

It's not always effective, but that just matters on the audiance in question.

I don't like it, I've thought the opposite for some time, but now that I think about it, you're probably right.
And good on you, Jim, for not giving a shit about the people here who hate you and openly fighting back.

The method he is suggesting is kinda like fight fire with fire. But I would rather reference the dark knight. Batman isn't the hero we need. it's the hero we deserve. Or something like that. Personally though I'm a posh guy so I couldn't troll anyone if that was necessary but I really don't approve of companies burying there head in the sand and caving when it comes to handling these situations. Until people like EA and assorted decide to start doing what needs to be done we are gonna have to rely on trolls who attack and spam for great wins.

You know something, he's right. We've tried being the bigger people here, but nobody gives a fuck about what we say yet because we haven't done anything to make them listen. So let's make some fucking noise!

Holy shit, he's right. At least in the US, people acting like children to defend their points over here gets laughed at in the media.

Valid points I didn't consider, always good to hear. I also like that mature gamers are Babar.

Wait, so you were trying to argue that we should argue with immaturity using a logical argument? LOL

But, to be fair you did raise some good points with the video and you are right about the news stations being a slang fest. I personally believe everything should be argued through logic (not just games), but that just doesn't happen most of the time and the person spouting the most nonsense will usually win. Shame that :(

The exact same thing happened on Alan Titchmarsh's daytime chat show. The game's industry bod (who's name I forget) was essentially shouted down and booed by an audience and panel of "experts" who had already made up their mind before the debate started. The guy remained calm and reserved throughout the whole thing, but failed to get his point across even remotely.

But then again, who give's two fuck's what what a TV gardener thinks about Grand Theft Warfare: Modern Killzone 3 anyway?

Hmm...if we need our own Jack Thompson.....

Maybe you could do it Mr.Sterling? *shrugs* You're certainly sweary-enough.

Anyone want to volunteer and become our Jack Thompson?

If we stoop to lawyer Jack level, we'll just meet his same fate, being ridiculed by the masses, shunned by the courts and made to be a complete fool in general. It doesn't work. Why did the Amazon bombing work? Becuase it was a group, there was no public response to a single entity going "geez that guy sounds like a douche" because it wasn't a single attack, it was a massive group riot and it worked. I bet if you organised every gamer who gave a crap to be outside Fox News crying for them to stop bashing on games, or they'd get Anonymous on you, they'd be a big chance they'd stop bashing on games for a bit. Sure, it's an empty threat, but they wouldn't know that, it's Fox, they're gullible idiots.

I have a weird thought: Why don't we let the aloof "Mature" gamers continue to try and educate the masses and in essence direct the army of childish? Aiming them where they are most effective when logic and reason fail. That to me would shatter any arguement from any bible thumping, anti-game idoit. You're video Jim, whether you realize it or not, just demonstrated that it works. Oh, you don't wanna listen to my valid arguements and simply resort to shouting? Fine. My Army of "childish" gamers will sink any product/book/movie/show to such a level that you'll need a new word to decribe how low you've sunk.

Kudos to Jim. There is so much awesome truth in this episode.

chstens:
Holy shit, he's right. At least in the US, people acting like children to defend their points over here gets laughed at in the media.

Did you actually see that debate? It wasn't so much a debate as it was a man who was right being shouted at for the whole thing.

I agree that the industry needs to stick up for itself more often.

I loved this video! It made a point too.
Fox News seems like the place that immaturity is needed to win.
On shows like (my most watched and most loved news channel. Not to say that there aren't others.) BBC News, they do occasionally read out letters from the public, it is a great and formal approach to a situation taht may have caused some outrage.

I'd go as far as to say a website like 4chan (as immature and stupid as the people on there generally are) has done this well, they DDoS'd PayPal, and well... It worked.

I'm not encouraging your point there, Jim, but I'd say it will sometimes work.

True - screaming your message, ignoring counter arguments, throwing logic in the sinkhole will ensure that you never lose. But you would have failed yourself. Winning in the manner you have described would be a pyrrhic victory - you might be able to win a few shouting matches, but you'd be encouraging childish behaviour and rank stupidity within the gamer community. And that's not a price I'm willing to pay.

Also, we don't NEED to defeat these people. They've lost. FoxNews and the Sun and the Daily Mirror can spout all the trashy, misinformed, ultra-right-wing nonsense they want, and it won't affect anything. In the 50's, they tried to ban Rock'n'Roll. Didn't work. In the 70's they tried to ban violent films. Didn't work. In the 80's, it was heavy metal that was apparently "leading America right to Satan's doorstep". Didn't work. And in the 90's, it was violent television and "satanic cults" like "Dungeons & Dragons" that they tried to ban. Again.... didn't work.

Video games are here to stay. Indefinitely. Unless Kim Jong Ill's son becomes president of America, you don't have to be worried about games being banned.

And as the FoxNews watching, miserable super-conservatives and nanny-state super-liberals (video game hate comes from both sides) die off (and they will), video games will become accepted. Hell, we are approaching the time where we will have people in their mid-30s who have played video games their ENTIRE LIFE.

There's no need to resort to being childish - because the stakes aren't high enough. FoxNews, for all its nonsensical drivel and alarmist propaganda, is helpless to stop video games. Want to know how I know this? Fox licenses out its IPs to developers to make video games. They're not going to ban it, as long as they can make a profit off of it.

Oh gawd, there is consensus between Jim and the front page on the Escapist! This has to be a sign of the end of days or something. It has been an very hot summer...... oh no, winter is coming!

Today I was ready to pause the video so I could read the name of the episode. Today he didn't name the episode.

You win this one Mr.Sterling.

well... I don' think either way is "right"... I think we need to do a "good cop, and bad cop" thing to them "anti-gamers"... I think we should slap them in the face with a baseball bat, like hacking their websites, spam-bomb run, angry/hate mail flood, then... after they had their mental/emotional meltdown, we will then walk up to them with our best suit dressers, patting them on their back, and say "See... if only you had listened to us when we weren't hostel..."

Isn't that always the problem with being the bigger man? Yes AT FIRST it seems like you are just unable to defend yourself and stooping to childish levels is very tempting. Especially if their arguments have more holes in them than swiss cheese.
But if you just keep it up and put out decent results people will eventually realize the childish naysayers are little more than an angry hobo shouting at a building.

I loved the ending of this episode :P

Jim, being intelligent only works if you are with intellect people with an intelligent argument, Fox news are NEVER intelligent.

It's sort of just mob justice. It bypasses all considerations for what is the "just" and "fair" way to approach a problem so as to ensure results. It's effective, but not preferred. It lacks definite moral high ground and the guarantee that the punishment scales with the crime.

With Jim's example of the Mass Effect debate on Fox, it would seem like Fox gets away almost undamaged compared to their appointed "expert". They basically used her to advance a point of view the show was taking before the debate even started. While she is guilty of being a willing participant of this scheme, she definitely takes the brunt of the mob backlash. Hopefully, the outcome is that such events occur less often as other potential speakers see the impact of playing "expert" for organizations looking for a mouth to voice its opinions.

let's just all fling poop around and look who comes out on top and unspoiled.
I don't need the people who take fox news seriously to like gaming because they are fucking morons anyway.

NNnnnn.... Yeah, but... B- <whimper>

All right, seriously... At my worst, I think maybe there should be room for both the high road and the low road, yeah? It's not like Noam Chomsky ceases to exist for the presence of Michael Moore, or George Will vanishes in a puff of smoke because of Andrew Breitbart, or... Whatever batshit insane person in a suit who supports neglecting childhood immunizations disappears because of Jenny McCarthy... (Sorry, came up empty there...)

And I think that you could as easily say the real point is "Don't go on 'news shows', especially Fox News, to support the argument they're planning to Straw Man." If we really want to hurt Fox News' credibility, we should just start asking people of good conscience to refuse to go on their shows at all because they make such a mockery of the word "news" that you can barely accept the word "fox" at face value. Oh, they'd rail about how the liberal establishment refused to face them for a while, but I think eventually the lack of credibility might start to be apparent when they started saying, "And now, for the pro-videogame side, here's Ted, formerly of camera 'B', who played Tetris once."

I don't have an easy answer, but in all arenas and all topics of conversation, we really have something to lose if being right and factually correct stops being as important as being flashy and loud. The lesson goes all the way back to the schoolyard, guys- just like there's always someone bigger and meaner waiting to push you down, there's also always someone louder and flashier. Probably arguing for the virtues of genocide.

What about people who only play CoD and repeatedly say that all other games are rubbish because, this is a quote: 'CoD is the best game ever and that games just for [censor] anyhow' (about Team Fortress 2).

This seems like it could be a more numbers wins match, in the debate 4 vs. 1 on a show that the audience already agreed with the 4, even if he did get loud the others could still get louder, and as for the amazon thing that's on vs. thousands. Not saying you don't have valid points being louder then the other guys in the argument is a great way to win but it fails the moment that guy guys of and shows everyone else how big of a douche we are and suddenly they are louder. Pretty much we need both loud active protesters to rush in and win battles, and more thoughtful people to win in the long term.

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