Jimquisition: Fight in the Name of Childishness

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Hmm.
....
.....
Sigh.

This is a week where pro-gamers need to shut up and let the NRA look insane.

Yes, ultimately it boils down to a madman's access to assault rifles.

But, uncomfortably he is connected with gaming.

He used gaming to train.

This is were gaming must accept some responsibility.

This is not an issue where we can be childish.

No.

No!!

We must have some sober introspection if we are to be taken seriously.

I'm sorry Jim but being the retarded dickhead will not serve us this week. Maybe other weeks where fox news is connecting kindegarden violence with Mortal Kombat but we can only really point out the stupidity of the connection these people make between violence and games when the difference is not so marginal.

This week videogames (COD:MF2) have been connected to a violent shooting. While the videogame has not been shown to influence motive it has been stated to have been instumental.

Yes there is many magnitudes of difference between a person using a firearm and a person playing Call of Duty. Does this suggest that we should not think about our medium and what effect it has on our society?

No it does not.

By no means do I think anything should be censored but a careful consideration of what role videogame violence plays in our society is worthwhile and should not be discounted.

Videogamers playing childish retards cannot help.

What can help is an absolute inundation of organisations who portray gamers as isolated violent weirdos. Inundate them with what you do for a living. Inundate them with what you do for your family. Inundate them with how you had a good time this weekend. Inundate them with how normal a humanbeing you are.

Let them know.

We are normal. And we will be heard.

ManupBatman:
Oh gawd, there is consensus between Jim and the front page on the Escapist! This has to be a sign of the end of days or something. It has been an very hot summer...... oh no, winter is coming!

Indeed, winter is coming... ;)

I think your attitude needs to be situational, of course there are times when it pays to be mature and sensible, but if being childish is more effective then be childish

vxicepickxv:

chstens:
Holy shit, he's right. At least in the US, people acting like children to defend their points over here gets laughed at in the media.

Did you actually see that debate? It wasn't so much a debate as it was a man who was right being shouted at for the whole thing.

Completely beside the point I was trying to make, but yes, I have seen the debate, the poor guy didn't stand a chance. At a second glance, I see that my post could use with some better punctuation. What I was trying to say that he's got a point, at least when it coems to Americans, but over here in Norway, while we do enjoy a good shouting on TV every now and then, the person who resorts to shouting and steamrolling on a TV debate gets laughed at in the papers the day after.

I think this commercial sums it up.

Stupid people with an I don't care attitude look like winners. And sad to say, in America we love stupid people. And anyone appearing on Fox News with intent to defend video games is fighting a losing battle. Fox News doesn't care about a fair argument; their slogan should be, "We're right, because we said so."

I remember there was that Kevin guy from G4 on Fox News, and he was supposed to defend gaming on something and they barely let him speak at all. I believe the same thing happened to Geoff.

Fox News should really be taken off the air because all they do is spread lies and slander. The only reason why Fox News hasn't been taken off the air is because there are enough people who love watching the stupid.

We can't really sink to the level of demoralizing their forms of entertainment - this is America. All the rednecks would have a fit if you said "The bible condones violence, it leads to blahblahblah".

And, uhh, haven't we already kinda sunk to the immature level?

With all of the hackings, pranks, meme's, etc. It seems like we have a dedicated group of members trolling. The only reason we got a resonse from her is because we took a hit to her wallet, so she caved. Money speaks

Ah dude, I agree with Jim.... I feel dirty.

Now if only we can expand this philosophy, anyone else think a childish world war would be hilarious? Just imagine the childish pranks one could pull of with the united states military budget!

Being childish doesn't necessarily mean being stupid. Some of those reviews were kind of clever.

The problem with what Geoff Keighley did was he tried to be articulate on Fox, where you don't have time to be articulate and correct. On Fox you're subject to unfair editing, no time to respond to a point before the next one is thrown at you, and just general herp-derpiness. He should have stuck to short, pithy statements that can't be edited. He shouldn't have asked: "Have you played the game?," and then responded to her answer. He should have just stated: "You haven't played the game, so you don't know what your talking about." Asking gives her a chance to dance around it, or quickly move from it. Places like Fox or talk shows aren't the place to be mature and intelligent, but places like articles and books, where someone has the time to break down arguments without being interrupted by a talking head, are. If we don't have those intelligent arguments available, what do we show to people who do become interested in the rights of videogames but don't necessarily play them?

Never thought about it that way, but your words do have the slight ring of truth to them.

I love this guy... and he's right. Americans, no, people in general are stupid and will follow the loudest voice. WE MUST BE LOUDER.

i saw that interview you talked about they literally pushed him aside and had they own conversation

I agree completely Jim, people take this medium far too seriously for it to be actually taken seriously. It's like someone insulting my action man and I respond by saying "I shall not sink to your level good sir, for you are too stupid to comprehend my arguments"

We need to be more childish, because being a child is fun, and games are meant to be fun. Remember that everyone.

Korolev:
snip

I agree with you. It's a non issuse in western societies. Games are here to stay. Honestly did the Fox case have any real effect on the sales of Mass Effect, as it hardly seems like they were influencing the demographic most likely to buy it.

Honestly I think it was silly to even participate in tehse debate, they are full of sound and fury but they mean nothing, don't affect anything and are utterly redundant.

Let's be honest. If you're the person representing the "other" side on Fox News, you automatically lose. People don't watch Fox News to be informed or to be enlightened. They don't want an honest debate. They just want their own view reinforced [1]. If you're the "other" side's representative, then you're just the avatar for their ire. You're fodder, and nothing more.

Honest discussions just rarely ever happen on any news network in the US. Ironically, the only place such discussions seem to take place are on parody news shows with guys like John Stewart (not that he's a bastion of truth. But the discussions are more balanced).

Anyway, I think Jim's point is right. There is no platform for reason in the media.

[1] And to be fair, the same goes for most every other major news network. MSNBC and Bill Maher does it for the liberal view while CNN...well, CNN has had a few people who attempt neutrality, but they haven't lasted long. CNN kind of caters to both sides, oddly enough. Even NPR isn't immune to this.

I really, really, really want to disagree with you. Unfortunately, you're probably right.

is it just me or has Jim started making better points? personally I'd love to see him go up against Fox news.

I liked this guy from the beginning, now I look forward to his videos here every week. This was one of my favourites

Let's create the Troll Force. The team that make it happens!

I agree with the points to a limit, but if someone isn't that kind of person they shouldn't be expected to look like a child just because it could get more people to listen (or because you THINK it will get people to listen).
The only reason the Fox News people act like that is because they are that stupid and childish.

I won't pretend to be someone I'm not for a bigger audience, but I don't despise anyone who wants to do that kind of thing.
To each his own, as they say.

EDIT: I'm not against someone going on Fox News and trying to look just as stupid but louder, but you have to know where you are and who you're against.
When talking with real people (as in not online or on TV) if you look like a moron trying to shout from the roof tops that games are great and not harmful in some random form of chat speak, you're not going to win anyone over.
In a real debate, you want someone who can actually debate. On Fox News you want someone who can yell louder and still be coherent to droves of Fox News fans and conservative Christians.

I was with you all up into until you said there's no harm in fighting a childish fight. we don't need to lower our standards just to win a silly argument against a troll station like fox news, who is notorious for giving 100% Bias news for the sake of entertain. the fact is the argument has no merit. "there's sex in a video game" so? there's sex in movies, tv shows,online anything, hell even books and unless their selling it to people under 18 without a parent there's no news.

Honestly i think violence in games is 100% necessary in the world we live in. it acts as a catharsis and keeps otherwise violence people in check because they kill people in a consequence free environment instead of getting screwed in prison. the few that still act out is because they either don't play games, or they were going to do it regardless of games. i think the lives saved from giving people this virtual kill field far out weights that of taking it away.

Robert Drapp:
I have a weird thought: Why don't we let the aloof "Mature" gamers continue to try and educate the masses and in essence direct the army of childish? Aiming them where they are most effective when logic and reason fail. That to me would shatter any arguement from any bible thumping, anti-game idoit. You're video Jim, whether you realize it or not, just demonstrated that it works. Oh, you don't wanna listen to my valid arguements and simply resort to shouting? Fine. My Army of "childish" gamers will sink any product/book/movie/show to such a level that you'll need a new word to decribe how low you've sunk.

Yeah you hit the nail on the head there. I mean as long as the childish attacks are legal (not hacking) then what will they do? We have valid points to make about games but it critics don't listen and engage in a civil debate then sure lets sink their products just like they tried to do. The Sad part about all of this is that Fox news doesn't actually care about what they are slandering they and their experts are just doing it so they can scare people into watching their programming and buy their books. For anyone who hasn't seen it look up Penn & Teller Bullshit: war on video games its really good at explaining at what is going on here is a link:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a6a_1249075899

Fox News doing an unbiased show? But they seemed so trustworthy! Next you'll tell me video games are fun!

Okay, I'll knock that off, it's universal knowledge that Fox News are a bunch of imbeciles who couldn't run a fair and balanced story if their lives depended on it, much less one that doesn't demonize video games and the much more mature than them six year olds who play them.

Thank god for Jim Sterling.

Newblisk:
I was with you all up into until you said there's no harm in fighting a childish fight. we don't need to lower our standards just to win a silly argument against a troll station like fox news, who is notorious for giving 100% Bias news for the sake of entertain. the fact is the argument has no merit. "there's sex in a video game" so? there's sex in movies, tv shows,online anything, hell even books and unless their selling it to people under 18 without a parent there's no news.

Just to mention, unless there's explicit sex, I'm pretty sure children can buy books with sex.
At 12 I read a book about a girl who claimed all manner of sexual abuse from her parents including sexual abuse to an infant. I found that book in my middle school library.

EDIT: I think I may have read your post wrong. xD
Oh well. I'll keep this here. Just know that I recognize that I made an oopsy.

Fight sensationalism with sensationalism? No thanks. The fact of the matter is, it works so slowly, the eventual results never reach the public that the original argument is seen by. We who actually follow the subject may be vindicated... but the masses for whom the subject is just a footnote will have their minds made up by the initial argument. Quick question: did Fox News ever air that author's admission? Did they ever revisit their "se"xbox story? I doubt it.
I say argue with reason... but be more forceful. Don't call a cunt a cunt, but do call a lie a lie and rudeness rudeness when they happen. Be insulted, be contemptuous, and let it show a little. Increase volume and force... but without anger.

Revolution the only solution,the old response of an entire nation
revolution the only solution,we have taken all your shit now its time for restetution

I agree Fight fire with fire

Major disagreement here Jim.

Sure, fighting dirty will probably win arguments in the media and with pundits. However, is that what is important? I know from personal experience that the "mature head-burry" approach has won many people over for the games, my mother being one of them. It seems to me that a childish knee-jerk approach might "win" the argument on the TV, but all you'll really end up doing is alienating the losing group, and reinforcing a bad image in the mind of the general public. Now obviously rolling over and playing dead, like EA, doesn't do any good either. But I certainly don't think that we should hack servers, review bomb books, and spam e-mail accounts to make our points. Honestly, who cares what a pundit says? What matters is how the general public views you, and if all they perceive is pointless entertainment, like a pin-ball machine, have we really won anything? Being childish might win an argument or two today, but it's the difference between spending ten years or a hundred seeking acceptance.

Bugerion:
Revolution the only solution,the old response of an entire nation
revolution the only solution,we have taken all your shit now its time for restetution

I agree Fight fire with fire

Cause the French revolution worked out so well.

So... Trolls FTW?

Good video Jim, keep it up!

fascinating topic and a very effective argument. I have thought that a hybrid of these two strategies should be embraced, creating a fandom wide "good cop/bad cop" game of shouting down the anti gaming crowed, and then enticing them with our Wiiware.

if we all sank to fox's level we'd be drowning in our own piss.

So let me get this straight...

The lesson learned here is that if you can't win like an MAN in the real world, then get 100s of your friends to act like children and do immature shit to FORCE people to maybe give in?

Worse, I'm not entirely certain a bunch of punkass gamers posting stupid negative reviews on Amazon for someone's book, negatively affecting their business and livelihood simply for having a difference of opinion is the way we want to go as a society. When did we stop allowing people to think differently from us? It's one thing to defend gaming but we have to be realistic too. I wouldn't really want my 10 year old playing God of War, and people SHOULD be made aware that mature games like this exist. The "mature" gaming issue itself will eventually go away on its own in about another 10 years because OUR generation grew up with games so we understand them on a wider scale. The people like Jack Thompson are from the past generation and they don't understand video games as anything more than TOYS because that's what they were to that generation.

I'm sorry but I'm NEVER going to advocate people rushing out to act like ass-heroes just to force someone else to change their minds. Why? Because it's all great when you're on the side of the ass-heroes, but it sucks bantha poodoo to be on the receiving end. What if they just deploy THEIR ass-anti-heroes to start doing the same thing to your side? I don't really relish the idea of an organized group of disgruntled censorship supporters deciding to go metacritic, etc and rate/reviewing any game with "mature" content as "terrible and garbage" 1 -star, etc... impacting the sales and thus robbing me of a possible sequel. People didn't buy Bully because people made disparaging comments about it when it was a GREAT game. As a result, I don't hold high hopes for Bully 2.

There comes a time when we all have to grow up and act like Men. Or at least Big boy Ponies.

I have to agree. Of course acting immature you have to stop making sense, stop using your brain or stop being right. The problem is that ppl that want to be mature don't get that you don't have to be either factually correct but boring or wrong but persuasive. You can fling shit all you want if you use it to get a factual point across. Groups like Fox news tell ppl there presenting facts so ppl buy in to it and they get away with it because half the time there not called on there bullshit or called on it on such a ineffectual way. Saying stuff like "thats not true" etc. simply isn't gonna cut it. Face it if some one calls your mother a whore would you then respond that your mother has no association with prostitution? of course not.

Bottom line is don't you want to be mature or do you want to get your point across? Because if its the second then you might not want to restrict your arsenal. Saving face but losing a debate is not a victory.

As a gamer who lives with a family who continues to think video games are a "toy" I can assure you that trying to act like a sensible fact driven person never works.

I only get results when I bash film and music. I say "I'm sorry which industry is making more money than film and music combined?"

I may be wrong about the combined part, but fuck it they don't know the difference.

I agree with you, and think somebody SHOULD stoop to their level. We just need somebody who can do it well.

Also your little dance at the end made me laugh a lot harder than it probably should have.

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