Jimquisition: Fight in the Name of Childishness

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Let's see Mature Debate vs Childish Antics....

How about I'm to busy to give a damn what some up tight jerk offs think about gaming, that's time I could be spent gaming. I'll sit up and take notice when something major happens. Like that Supreme Court case Video Games won making them an art form.

As for EA not going after Fox... Did you see how they marketed Dead Space 2!?! Or several of their other previous titles? They seem to be of the mind set that scandalous is good for business.

Now if you'll excuse me I've got some video games to play.

Father Time:
Jack Thompson self destructed in a big spectacle and the Florida Legal System basically called him a no good liar when they stripped him of his law license.

Yep. He ignored the deadlines for his own disbarment hearings, if I remember correctly.
Now that's a stupid twat.

As for Jim. I have to disagree again.

All that childishness accomplished here, was a private vendetta against uh... whats-her-name. While she may have made a few statements retracting what she said afterwards, she most certainly did not do so on Fox News. Nor will any amount of vindictive childishness cause Fox News to issue an apology or a retraction for their opinions which were written in stone before airing. Thus your case for childishness is flimsy, and based on the limited results of harassing a single individual. That should not be held up as justifying poor behavior.

Fox News is beyond threatening or reasoning with at any level. During the fracas about getting a Universal Health Care law, they had an on-air interview with this guy who had assaulted a pro-health care protester. Naturally the pro-health care protester was the bad guy. Because after the second unprovoked punch to the face, the assailant's hand came away minus a finger. It had been bitten off. So according to Fox News logic; 2 counts of battery is not nearly as serious as being 'for' universal health care. Can you even arrest someone for biting a finger placed in their mouth?

Nah we need both. A mature spokesman and an infantile and aggressive soapboxer. You know, both a Harvey Dent and a Batman.

Or dare we say... like an Extra Credits and a Zero Punctuation?

I almost agreed with your points,Jim,but that vest distracted me. A man of the cloth should always be wearing the proper cloth at the pulpit, therefore this is the highest form of heresy and your arguments are invalid.
Is that childish enough yet?

KarlMonster:
Can you even arrest someone for biting a finger placed in their mouth?

That's what happened in the last Stanley Cup, and they didn't even give him a penalty because they don't whether it was an accident.

Of course after that the Bruins started fighting him a hell of a lot more.

Once again, I absolutely agree with Jim. This is how the world works people!

god jim is right!

we may still need the intellectual guy that can make valid points

but we also need the guy that can yell at everyone and call them fucktards for not seeing things his way while making shit up

I shall beg to differ with you Mr Stirling. Gamers are slowly becoming accepted because as a community, we have acted maturely (for the most part) over a long time. Most people who don't watch Fox News have noticed this and treat gamers with a little respect. (Much like those wonderful judges at the Supreme Court in the U.S.)

Those who are familiar with Godwin's Law will know that the first person to invoke fascism has normally lost the argument. Acting childish or resorting to shouting works in the same way - whoever does it lost the argument.

The person who truly wins the argument is always the guy who makes the most salient points and keeps his cool.

But why are gamers so interested in winning over Fox News? They're fools. Let's not get bogged down in what the likes of Fox News have to say, they simply aren't worth the hassle - they're trolls. By arguing with them, we feed them.

I say bollocks to Fox and let's get on with something a bit more worthwhile - like playing games. I cannot speak for the entire Escapist community, but I would rather lose a game honestly than win as a cheat. For that is the test of an honourable man.

hermes200:
No, Jim. You are wrong. Your point is stupid and you are stupid for making it.

Mmmhh... I guess acting childish and talking out of my butt does makes me right. Good advice.

Contradiction, hurts me brain! ARGH
If Jim is wrong how can acting childish make you right? If you acting childish makes you right that makes Jim right and wrong at the same time!

I've tried to win an argument against an idiot before while still trying to be sensible, it doesn't work. Every time that you bring up a concept that they themselves are too stupid to understand, they simply laugh you off with the thought that you're just making things up.

It's an interesting point. Unfortunately it's not games being violent or the people that shout about religion and 'morals', it's the system that supports it (Biased entertainment-news stations like Fox) and the people themselves that are entertained by that.

If people didn't find that entertaining Fox wouldn't broadcast it.

I think it ends up as being, in the current state, what Jim was saying is really the only way to respond and have any effect whatsoever. It's like a vicious cycle of retardedness T_T

this is the only intelligent piece intelligent analysis he has done on this series.

I think that the healthy idea is a balance of smart and nasty.

We SHOULD respond to criticisms maturely and intelligently, but if the other side is full of shit and will not listen to reason, we SHOULD retaliate by calling them out on their BS directly. For example, glenn beck should be shouted down and made to look like a fool for what he said about the norway tragedy. And right wing overzealous Christian lobbyists who cry that games were the cause of the shooting should be told in no uncertain terms that the man believed himself to be a crusader protecting "european christendom from the evils of islam" and said as much himself, so THAT'S probably the cause.

And if they turn off our mics while we retaliate verbally, or shout over us and cut us off to stop us from making our points or do other unfair debating tactics, then yeah, sure, I think it's time to show them that they're not the only ones who can be dicks about stuff. At this point, Amazon bomb away, you crazy people.

TLDR version: Start off being mature and intelligent, but if they start slinging mud at you, then it's probably time to return fire.

now (again) im kinda happy i live in the eu where reason (even in tv) is held higher than spouting pointless shit a bit louder than your opponent

Finally, Jim Sterling justifies his existence. This is a point that HASN'T already been made by dozens of wittier and more insightful game commentators than Jim Sterling... and this also happens to be something that I have known and been pointing out for years now.

I'm not gonna lie, these comments have persudaded me to give the Jimquisition another go...

I'll report back if I feel robbed of valuable minutes or not...

Gunner 51:

But why are gamers so interested in winning over Fox News? They're fools. Let's not get bogged down in what the likes of Fox News have to say, they simply aren't worth the hassle - they're trolls. By arguing with them, we feed them.

I say bollocks to Fox and let's get on with something a bit more worthwhile - like playing games. I cannot speak for the entire Escapist community, but I would rather lose a game honestly than win as a cheat. For that is the test of an honourable man.

image

Because Taxi Driver is cooler then Citizen Kane. And Travis likes your style.

wow i could not disagree with this video more, look what Jim is suggesting is a short term solution at best, and a complete demonstration of the industry at worst. I am a Christian, and I don't think video games are the devil. but what we are dealing with is an older generation that has not come to terms with the industry. This happened to movies and it will happen to what ever comes next. If we as gamers act in the way that Jim suggests then video games "time of troubles"(if you will excuse a D&D reference) will be even longer, now i respect Jim and i think he has had some good points, but i have to disagree with him on this one. Sorry Jim:-(

I stopped watching when one of the Related thingys at the top of the video was Fox News and Sex Box, yeah, no, those don't need to be talked about, since they have already buried themselves.

I just found it weird.

He's right. If we were arguing or trying to get our point across to sane, reasonable, people then... there wouldn't be an argument to begin with. But no, we're fighting against loud, manipulative, ass holes. When quiet logic fights loud stupidity, loud stupidity usually wins.

I pissed myself laughing this episode.

As for the topic... immature or practical and reasoned - the people that talk smack like FOX about games won't listen and care either way, in my opinion. The points could be communicated in an infantile manner or in mature way. They've got their opinion (usually not based on experience of research) and they'll stick to them regardless of the delivery.

I... actually agree to an extent. On fox news you need to shout and swing your dick about and trying to be ultra reasonable is not the right aprouch, he should have talked over THEM a little and drawn attention to the retarded nature of the debate or talked about the whole aprouch of the network in the debate drawing attention to the lack of attention he was getting and how they are going to raid-road him no matter how much or little he speaks. When in a shouting match games sometimes need to shout a little.

But on almost every other occasion the aprouch of being reasonable does seem to work as long was we are reasonable AND Visible and Effective. What if he had just flown off the handle? Fox would have played the footage back for weeks trying to dismantle him for doing waht the other guests had done becuase he was 'wrong'. If you act like an adult it can show up the sham that mis taking place around you.The on air discusson was absurd and there was no real way to 'win' in that situation. The victory came later, they were burried by their own words.

There was no groundswell against mass effect inspired by his 'poor' performace on air. No one really though Mass Effect was a sex simulator. The network was openly macked for its frankly brainless coverage and has been seemingly reluctant to negatively report on games since due to the fact that it is basically sticking its proveribal dick in the internet beehive.

Being timid is no way to win i agree, the best things games can do is have a robust lobby and be able to attck outlets for slanderous comments. Someone openly lying about games on air should fill the networks with pant-wetting fear of the wrath of the publishers.

gold star for jim! thank god indeed.

i hereby cast my vote for jim to be our jack thompson.

It's depressing how right Jim is. His point doesn't just hold up for games, but for everything. People don't want to hear reason. They have already formed their opinion, or rather they've already had it spoonfed to them. Trying to reason with them is pointless; all too often the only way to get results without resorting to violence is to take the piss on them until they start to cry.

pyro42:
wow i could not disagree with this video more, look what Jim is suggesting is a short term solution at best, and a complete demonstration of the industry at worst. I am a Christian, and I don't think video games are the devil. but what we are dealing with is an older generation that has not come to terms with the industry. This happened to movies and it will happen to what ever comes next. If we as gamers act in the way that Jim suggests then video games "time of troubles"(if you will excuse a D&D reference) will be even longer, now i respect Jim and i think he has had some good points, but i have to disagree with him on this one. Sorry Jim:-(

Fox "news" and the bible thumping christians won't be convinced anyway, so why not use them to vent you fustration. Not to insult, but how can you agrue with someone that uses the argument: "The sky wizard told me so". They will flat out refuse clear facts and arguments just to keep their point of view. The only way to "win" is taking a grade /b/ troll and see how long it takes for a vein to pop in their brain.

Damn straight! When someone disagrees with you on a controversy, do you use facts and argue the point? Hell no! Go all out and launch personal attacks. However, since review bombing only works for those with published books, pull out the other weapons in the gamer arsenal. Flood their mail accounts with hate mail, crash any websites they might have, and hack their mail and social accounts, publishing their personal information on the web. That way, if anyone seeks to question us, they might think twice before prodding the gamers. Cause that's what you do in a free democratic republic. You intimidate or pummel your opposition into submission.

(It's called sarcasm Jack)

Post error. Please delete.

The current situation regarding the game industry and their lack of reaction to critics reminds me a little of the state of tabletop RPG's such as Dungeons and Dragons in the 80's. At that time, D&D was getting a bad rap as a game about Satanism and witchcraft, and that those who played it were being led down a path to hell, paved with the blood of babies and the like. Much of this was because of the efforts of a very few people, especially one Pat Pulling (now deceased), who made it her personal goal to destroy RPG's. She didn't do this with reasoned debate, she did this with lies and deceit, by poisoning the well with police and educators with so-called "expert" papers regarding the subject. In short, childishness.

Scary part is, she nearly succeeded in some ways. Many authorities did develop concerns regarding RPG's, due in no small part to her efforts. And TSR during the entire time this was happening did nothing. They had a policy of ignoring the criticism, I guess under the theory guidance counselors have that the bully will go away if you ignore them. Much like the gaming industry is doing today, and I think that's a big mistake on their part. They could, and should, be leading the efforts to educate the public on what gaming really is all about. It's their business, for crying out loud, what the hell are they waiting for? Ignoring Pulling didn't make her go away, it was the efforts of fans and independents that disarmed her, and only her death made her actually stop.

What made her efforts ineffectual in the long run wasn't childish diatribes against her, but rather reasoned efforts to actually educate authorities and the public in the truth. Mike Stackpole helped a lot with The Pulling Report, a long and well researched counter to anti-gaming hysteria.

Childish railing at the enemy can get results in the short term. As Jim said, people notice that kind of behavior, it attracts attention and causes a spectacle. But in the long run, tactics like that will fail if they aren't backed up by reason and debate. You act like a screaming idiot long enough, eventually people are going to stop being amused by you, and will take steps to ignore you, or shut you up (such as what happened to Jack Thompson, the poster child for childish insanity in public). They will notice the screaming child, but they will remember the calm statesman long after that child is gone from their minds forever.

He's right about one thing, I disagree with him. Haters are gonna hate, as they say, and there will always be niche religious and conservative groups that will portray games as evil, it's possible to argue and call them out on their bull**** without sinking to their level. Most of the idiocy is better off ignored (especially people like Fox and JT) because like a bratty child all they really want is attention. And anyone who would listen to them and actually take them seriously are just as stupid and stubborn and nothing can be done to change it. Now when they try to impose unconstitutional laws then of course we should fight back, but acting just as stupid and immature isn't going to help.

You don't really think that because her book was trolled that so called "expert" actually learned her lesson do you? If she was so unprofessional as to speak out against something she had barely seen before, then I highly doubt any amount of gamer rage is going to change that. If Jeff had been just as dumb and loud as the rest of the people on the show it wouldn't have made a lick of difference, except for giving them more ammo to use against gamers.

I'm all for calling people out for the ignorant douchebags they are, but it defeats the purpose if we stoop to their level in the process. You may be able to get a whiny brat to shut up by screaming back in their face, but you'll just end up embarrassing yourself to everyone else in the store.

I sure am glad I don't live in a country where Fox News is considered being nothing more than a biased load of bad journalism. A great topic Jim, nonetheless.

A sequence of arguments like: A murders B -> A plays GTA -> In GTA you can kill people. -> A murdered B because of GTA. That's just bullshit. Even if the person committing the murder got the idea from GTA, or the game somehow led him to the act of committing murder, it is still not the games fault. To quote Chris Rock: Whatever happened to crazy?

If a person cannot distinguish gameplay from reality then that person is mentally ill and should get help. If he does not get help it is not Rockstars fault, nor is it Hollywoods fault. It is more likely parental neglect and/or teachers/guardians of some sort failing to recognize anti-social behavior.

I think it's best to ignore mediums like Fox News. They obviously have a extremely biased debate, that wouldn't catch on outside the US. I blame the school system for producing such ignorant retards.

The people who are insisting that we should always take the high road without exception don't realize that equal and opposite reaction isn't just theroy, it's the law, and anyone trying to argue with idiots intelligently is in violation of that law.

Yeah, maybe being childish will go convince the masses of retards who listen to Fox News that games aren't the spawn of the devil, but in the process you'll lose your dignity and the respect of anyone with something between their ears. Here's an idea; maybe we leave the monkeys to throw their faeces while we go on with doing what we want.

Maybe there's definitely room for immature antics, they are effective, but once we've shouted down the critics we still have to act responsibly again. Anyway it's probably going to require a more mixed approach, immature for the idiots at fox news and the daily mail and a more mature approach for anyone willing to debate the issue.

On one on one arguments in real life the facts will always win there is no audience no judges, it is a pure contest to flood your opponents mind with doubt and victory is awarded to the one who walks away still confident they are right. I personally have managed to convince people who used to think games were nothing but immature toys, that even if they are not for them, there is nothing inherently wrong with them displaying mature content.

Remember scream like an idiot at a monkey and it may shut up but scream at someone talking in a cinema and you'll just get thrown out.

Joe McGahan:
It's effective alright, but I don't think I could live in a world where we all sink to Fox News level.

eh tbh...i think its to late for that ever see politicians rise above fox news level ?

jcg:

pyro42:
wow i could not disagree with this video more, look what Jim is suggesting is a short term solution at best, and a complete demonstration of the industry at worst. I am a Christian, and I don't think video games are the devil. but what we are dealing with is an older generation that has not come to terms with the industry. This happened to movies and it will happen to what ever comes next. If we as gamers act in the way that Jim suggests then video games "time of troubles"(if you will excuse a D&D reference) will be even longer, now i respect Jim and i think he has had some good points, but i have to disagree with him on this one. Sorry Jim:-(

Fox "news" and the bible thumping christians won't be convinced anyway, so why not use them to vent you fustration. Not to insult, but how can you agrue with someone that uses the argument: "The sky wizard told me so". They will flat out refuse clear facts and arguments just to keep their point of view. The only way to "win" is taking a grade /b/ troll and see how long it takes for a vein to pop in their brain.

but that's the thing, there is no way to win, well not now at lest. Look like i said I'm not only a Christian but a pastor, a youth pastor that is, and i have had to work with these people that takes every thing that Fox New says for gospel truth. though it is fun to have ask them to back up there agreement with scripture. But here is the thing we don't have to beat them now, most of these people are over the age of 50 and lets face it old people die, we will out last them, the problem is how will we be remembered by those who replace them. if we sink to there level the answer is not well.

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