The Big Picture: Super Single

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on a kinda related note Sonic the hedgehog should get a fricken girlfriend allready.

as for superman and wonder woman "project A-KO" its hinted at that they are Ako's parents and it looks like they retired from the super hero thing.

bladeofdarkness:

what about Barbara Gordon being able to walk again ?

You're not alone there... even if there is going to be a Birds of Prey series, Oracle is nowhere to be seen. :( Even if for some reason Barbara got the use of her legs back, how would that make sense for her to go back crimefighting as BatGIRL? *facepalm*

As for the video... I disagree. I understand the real world parallel of army wives but still knowing their spouse is going to be in constant danger does not prevent them from getting married, does it?

It does boil down to what was said above, running out of ideas, and trying to make sense of a world where time does not lapse and things have to stay the same and still appealing. They're just stirring the pot just to keep reader's attention, not by the quality of their work but by ticking them off. *shrug*

What are we going to do with all those "Superman is the only man who wears his underwear over his pants" jokes?

I think that putting Clark through a dating process could be entertaining. Usually Superman stories are fun, but his alter-ego is dull. This could be just what the comic needs.

Could we have an alternate universe where the superheroes armour of choice isn't latex?

For me, the Superman books just never caught my interest. I don't read the books; not because I don't like him as a character but simply because the everyday stuff he gets into between the huge events where he can be challenged by forces that could actually kill him just don't interest me. Supes is nigh indestructable against most things, so him doing anything less than fighting huge god-like entities like Darksied or the Anti-Monitor seems just dull to me.

As such, come the DC relaunch, I'm not going to use it as a jumping on point to start reading the Superman books. As such, I could not care less about whether he's married or not. The comics from what I've gathered usually treated their marriage as an incidental thing anyway, so there's that.

However, one thing about Superman and marriage irks me: the idea some writers (predominantly of elseworlds stories) have that Superman should be shipped with Wonder Woman. Bob touched on this a bit in the video, but here's the more important issue. The only reason they support this ship comes from the delusion that the most powerful man in the world should "logically" be paired with the strongest woman in the world.

Thing is, this isn't logical at all. Putting aside that the two have nothing in common outside of their superheroing, from a story perspective this severely limits what writers can do when it comes to their relationships. If a superhero marries or gets into a relationship with a normal human, that lends itself to endless drama and interesting storylines. If two superheros shack up, what tension is there to be had? Why should one worry about the safety of the other when both have saved the world a hundred times over?

And also, as that whole "Flash Family" saga of Wally West's tenure as the primary Flash (before Barry Allen came back), is it really better to abandon all the non-powered supporting cast of a book in favor of just developing the heroes? No damnit! The supporting cast is often the ones that get the most character development in a book because they need to be defined by more than just their name, costume, and powers, because they have none. What the SupermanxWonder Woman shippers are trying to do is define a relationship not through their individual characters, but simply through their powers. And that is how a hack writes!

I always liked the Batman / Wounderwomen set up in the Justice League cartoon. Batman was just constantly saying it was a bad idea while Wounderwomen was like "whatever bitch your arse is mine", I think it suited their characters, at least in that series.
Not that Wounderwomen being lesbian wouldnt make more sense. Hell im preaty sure Batmans converted at least 3 lesbians. Id be gay if it meant doing it with Batman... and I dont even read Western Super Hero comics.

Since I tend to focus on Marvel's big event I don't spend much time on DC - it's nice to get an update on that and explanation ;)

Aiddon:

ManupBatman:
Bob are you familiar with The Sentry? Pretty much Marvel's early 2000s ultra realistic version of Superman that has a cooler concept then most writers can handle if your not. Though more on topic, they show how the most powerful person in the world probably gets along with marrying a normal person, and that is not well. Not well at all.

And I hope they keep Supes single for a while and play the field a bit. Nothing says "internal strife that you simply solve by throwing it in the Sun" like a woman, am I right fellas?............. Yeah I'm totally right.

And then Sentry devolved into an invincible, boring, irritating character nobody liked. Nobody at Marvel knew what the hell to do with the guy.

Tell me about it. They just couldn't resist putting him in teams and using him as a go to deus ex machina. Same thing with Doc Strange, and Ironman, and really pretty much all characters that have a lot of magic or tech. Least DC has the curtsy of rotating their characters who save the day and reset things back to 0.

Sorry for the double post.

Superman and Lois Lane not being together? Whatever.

Grant Morrison, the writer of All Star Superman, bringing back an angry, socialist golden age Superman who fights currupt corporate buisness men and politians and represents the working man in the new great depression?

...comics are still being made and sold?
Wow, good to know.

RJ Dalton:
I would be in favor of Marvel and DC retiring some of the old superheroes and letting new ones rise up. Both companies have basically run out of ideas for the characters are are just staggering around looking for new ways to reinvent the heroes they've got. When that happens, it's time for fresh blood.

The problem is both Marvel and DC try to introduce new characters all the time. None of them are as popular as either comics regular Superheroes. Very few created in the last 20-30 years have stuck

The ones who do stick either have niche or cult followings (Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Deadpool) or are legacy characters connected in someway to existing franchises (Damian Wayne (Robin 4), Tim Drake (Robin 3), Batwoman, Superboy, Kyle Rayner (Green Lantern 4) ect)

Fantastic Four as "old married couple with two obnoxious kids" o_O Blew my mind.

SomeBritishDude:
Grant Morrison, the writer of All Star Superman, bringing back an angry, socialist golden age Superman who fights currupt corporate buisness men and politians and represents the working man in the new great depression?

A thousand times yes.

And on top of that unbelievably delicious cake there's the damn tasty icing of Rags Morales' art.

Should be one of the best books of the relaunch in my eyes.

GiantRaven:

SomeBritishDude:
Grant Morrison, the writer of All Star Superman, bringing back an angry, socialist golden age Superman who fights currupt corporate buisness men and politians and represents the working man in the new great depression?

A thousand times yes.

And on top of that unbelievably delicious cake there's the damn tasty icing of Rags Morales' art.

Should be one of the best books of the relaunch in my eyes.

That and everything in the Dark line up (Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Justice League Dark, Frankenstein ect) is a must buy.

Okysho:

Xenominim:

Okysho:
Darn, I was hoping this one would be about our new Black Spiderman. I wanna hear more about Marvel's decision to kill off peter parker.

They're not killing off Peter Parker though. They're killing off the 'Ultimate' version of Peter Parker which is basically an alternate universe version that was made up 10 years ago or so. The regular Peter Parker from the 60's is still alive and well.

Regardless (how is that different from superman hooks up with wonderwoman in an alternate universe anyways?) I still would like to hear how Marvel reached this decision. I'm not going to try and understand what the point of the alternate universes are for (especially not after reading marvel zombies) I'm just curious, besides it'd make a good episode.

Books like that aren't as designed by committee as DC is. Usually, the writer (Brian Michael Bendis) pitches it to the EIC and such, and if it makes sense and it could be interesting, they approve. If it's a big shift - such as the Black/Latino Spider-man - they put some marketing power behind it as well.

Even the big events began as simple pitches by the writers, not necessarily directed by a marketing department.

As for why it happened, well -

Likely they're planning on separating the Ultimate Universe from the regular universe even more. Killing Ultimate Peter Parker - the first Ultimate character - signifies that, but they've been talking about it since Ultimatum. They want more original stories with original characters more so than derivative stories with "Ultimized" characters. This new Spider-man is indicative about it.

Aiddon:

ManupBatman:
Bob are you familiar with The Sentry? Pretty much Marvel's early 2000s ultra realistic version of Superman that has a cooler concept then most writers can handle if your not. Though more on topic, they show how the most powerful person in the world probably gets along with marrying a normal person, and that is not well. Not well at all.

And I hope they keep Supes single for a while and play the field a bit. Nothing says "internal strife that you simply solve by throwing it in the Sun" like a woman, am I right fellas?............. Yeah I'm totally right.

And then Sentry devolved into an invincible, boring, irritating character nobody liked. Nobody at Marvel knew what the hell to do with the guy.

And that's why they ultimately (ba-dum-tish) killed him off. What irritated most folks was how they threw him in and retconned stuff so that he always had existed in Marvel comics. Most fans were like Bwah-huh? Especially when most comics readers though he was stupid and disliked him to begin with.

Bob, I dare you to go the next three weeks without a comic book episode.

The way you started this one even sarcastically admits that this is basically becoming what the show is about, which is sad, because there are so many other interesting, engaging things that you can talk about and have talked about.

Or, at the very least, use the comic book topics as a springboard to expand into farther reaching subjects. Most of these episodes are just about comics for the sake of comics.

I do realize that you just did a month about movies, which I appreciated, and it's why I'm kind of exasperated that you're dropping straight back into comics.

SomeBritishDude:
The problem is both Marvel and DC try to introduce new characters all the time. None of them are as popular as either comics regular Superheroes. Very few created in the last 20-30 years have stuck

The ones who do stick either have niche or cult followings (Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Deadpool) or are legacy characters connected in someway to existing franchises (Damian Wayne (Robin 4), Tim Drake (Robin 3), Batwoman, Superboy, Kyle Rayner (Green Lantern 4) ect)

So, it's all the fans fault then.

Clark Kent getting married is logical to me. Ma and Pa Kent are not going to be around forever, and the character needs somewhere to call home and someone just as close to confide in. The character himself may be physically indestructible, but emotionally he'll just be a slave to the people who constantly forget their babies in burning buildings. This is one of my favorite things about Spider-man 2, since that film addresses the desires of the superhero to lead a normal life even with the burden of responsibility of their powers.

Superman being single doesn't make him more relatable any more than being married. Do people want to see Clark Kent, boy scout as he his, hit it and quit it? I honestly don't understand what is so wrong with a logical progression of a relationship status. Does he need to be obsessed with the Metropolis Meteors, drink a lot, date endlessly, and despise his life of endless heroism in order to match up with American tastes? His desire to marry stems from being raised by his married parents and observing the love and support they offer each other. Just because he's an indestructible alien doesn't mean he has to be condemned to a personal hell of solitude. So marriage is the true enemy of the superhero?

I don't think the company is making a wrong decision in taking the opportunity to alter their stories, and provide a solid jumping-on point for new readers. However, if their desire is to pair Superman and WW together I have a big problem with that. I love the alternate universes where this relationship is explored, but I think that hurts WW's characterization too much. It makes her look weak, and I feel that WW should remain independent.

I'll leave this here to inspire your empathy.

I'll read comic if the DC reboot happens. I don't want to have to deal with head up the ass continuity issues.

Most stable couple in comics?
The Dibny's.

Interesting... though I have to say I agree more with the passing mention of Wondy coming out of the closet than the "Supes as a swinging bachelor" main argument.

Nope, I'm gonna be a stubborn old man on this one.

Supes wears red undies or I cancel my subscription.

Supes belongs with Lois Lane or I cancel my subscription.

You know, I've never been a fan of reboots. I like the idea of a parallel world where things march on right alongside ours and removing the few attempts at changing things up in the past, I enjoy a long, storied continuity.

Superman and Lois Lane are iconic. It's one of those things that keeps gushy little losers like myself believing that true love can exist and two people can be fatefully perfect for each other. If big blue and Lo-La can't even find that joy that being with the one you love gives you, then what hope is there for those of us in the real world to believe in such things?

Besides, I think you could go the other way with the dynamic. Yes being married to Superman is a tough thing, but it's like being married to an ATF agent or soldier, as you said Bob. There's stress in that relationship but there's also a great deal of devotion. It makes for great drama if the right writers capitalized on it. Even Spidey and Mary Jane kinda used to make me smile every time something big would go down and he'd be on the verge of going out that window, probably to his death, both of them realizing that but MJ realizing that it's what a hero has to do. Then she'd say, "Go get 'em, Tiger."

Boy if I was a hero about to rush to in all probability a horrible, painful demise at the hands of some twisted, psychotic, super powered freakazoid, having the love of my life send me on my way with a "go get em tiger" would be more sustaining than any super power I had. I would fight that much harder, react that much smarter, risk everything and anything to win for my lady and return to her arms for some super powered love making after I heal up.

Superman and Lois Lane splitsville? SOunds like an excuse to retread the same old ground and you and I both know it won't last long. In short order they'll be falling in love all over again, and we'll be going through that whole cat-and-mouse thing that the past 6 seasons of Smallville already traipsed through.

Some things, I think, are better off left alone.

Well, I don't think it was a horrible thing for superman to get hitched, but i agree something should change because of it.

I see two main ways to do it:

A) Superman retires, happy little life with louis a while, meanwhile superbaddies pop out left and right, superman realizes this ain't gonna work so he breaks it off himself, maybe breaks himself off from humanity a bit.

B) Superman does the 90% of the time superheroing and louis gets right pissed about it, maybe breaks it off herself and he goes into depression mode a while.

Oooo, third one, no one would see this coming (sarcasm):

C) Louis dies, brutally. In the superhero's not allowed to have a happy little life mindset, he just gets punished pretty quick. Not so much if readers think he's not allowed, but in a universe like this with so many enemies and responsibilities, does he really think he can keep an ounce of normalcy.

Now I don't read comics, enjoy hearing such a synopsis from a knowledgeable source but I don't know jack about how it all went down canonically, but i certainly agree that the only difference being now superman occasionally kisses his wife goodbye in the morning is kinda silly.

Got to say i don't like the comic book episodes (because i don't like comic books), i prefer it when MOVIEbob talks about MOVIES.

That was a really good argument and Bob has actually succeeded in making me see the whole single Superman thing in a slightly less negative light, though it'll still be a while before I put my faith in DC again.
He couldn't be more wrong about the overpants though. First off, they're iconic, even if you wanted to get rid of them they've been ingrained into the public consciousness by 70(?) years of continuous publishing, it's the sort of thing that people just associate with Superman. It'd be like Batman without the scallop thingies on his gloves. And speaking of Batman, he too has moved away from the overpants, which I don't have a major problem with, they were never that vital to the whole look. Superman's Kryptonian overpants on the other hand, are a lot more vital to the image they tie the costume together, otherwise it just looks like a janitors jumpsuit. Not that I've put a lot of thought into this.
I'm surprised Bob didn't tackle the Batgirl issue though as opposed to giving it a cursory mention, to me that seems like a more interesting issue than whether or not Superman is going to pursue a variety of painfully generic love interests for the next few years.
Oh well, I'm just happy Bob did another "Comics Are Weird" installment.

RJ Dalton:

SomeBritishDude:
The problem is both Marvel and DC try to introduce new characters all the time. None of them are as popular as either comics regular Superheroes. Very few created in the last 20-30 years have stuck

The ones who do stick either have niche or cult followings (Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Deadpool) or are legacy characters connected in someway to existing franchises (Damian Wayne (Robin 4), Tim Drake (Robin 3), Batwoman, Superboy, Kyle Rayner (Green Lantern 4) ect)

So, it's all the fans fault then.

No. But it is partially their fault.

The comic book industry really is eating itself alive partly because of the comic book fan base. They're usually 30 something year old guys and up. And that fan base isn't really interested in new exciting ideas and looking for comics books that explore the protential of the medium. They're interested in reading about their favourite guys in tights they red about when they were kids. And they don't want anything to change.

RyePunk:
Most stable couple in comics?
The Dibny's.

Maybe. But they're dead.

image

Really the most stable couple in comics are Buddy Baker (Animal Man) and Ellen, simply because he has a status quo as a married man.

moosek:
I'll read comic if the DC reboot happens. I don't want to have to deal with head up the ass continuity issues.

It's not an if situation, it is going to happen, though people really do have the wrong idea about comic book continuity. You don't need to have read every Batman book for the past 20 years to understand what's going on (Okay, you do if it's being written by Grant Morrison, but he's the only one, I swear)
If you want to read comics you can do a few things;
1 - Peruse Wikipedia or a wiki, it'll tell you all the basics as to characters and their relationships.
2 - Use a scans site, they usually give you a sort of bullet points version of the latest stories.
3 - Wait for a jumping on point or a new series, publishers are always looking for new readers, and if you check comic sites you can usually get a heads up as to a good time to start reading a title, as long as it's not heavily serialized you shouldn't have too much trouble getting caught up on the status quo.
Sorry to go on so long, but I think comics are great and I find that people have a lot of misconceptions about them.
Also sorry to be off-topic.... MovieBob is great.

GiantRaven:

SomeBritishDude:
Grant Morrison, the writer of All Star Superman, bringing back an angry, socialist golden age Superman who fights currupt corporate buisness men and politians and represents the working man in the new great depression?

A thousand times yes.

And on top of that unbelievably delicious cake there's the damn tasty icing of Rags Morales' art.

Should be one of the best books of the relaunch in my eyes.

Damn right, there are no words for how excited I am about Morrison's Action Comics. Usually I go to my LCS at about midday on new comics day, when AC#1 comes out I'm gonna be waiting outside the doors for the place to open.

There is no reason Spider-Man can't be married. Spider-Man's whole bit is that he just isn't capable of keeping people safe in any way. Not only are his powers so unimpressive that absolutely nothing comes easy to him, but he's all these personal responsibilities that he can't realistically ignore, things like school and career, and of course loved ones. Even without MJ he's still got Aunt May, although I suspect that once MJ's out of the picture the editors will affix the bullseye squarely on her. They'd probably even hold grudges against anyone who resisted them, even if it was the actual readers. It's been known to happen.

SomeBritishDude:

RJ Dalton:

SomeBritishDude:
The problem is both Marvel and DC try to introduce new characters all the time. None of them are as popular as either comics regular Superheroes. Very few created in the last 20-30 years have stuck

The ones who do stick either have niche or cult followings (Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Deadpool) or are legacy characters connected in someway to existing franchises (Damian Wayne (Robin 4), Tim Drake (Robin 3), Batwoman, Superboy, Kyle Rayner (Green Lantern 4) ect)

So, it's all the fans fault then.

No. But it is partially their fault.

The comic book industry really is eating itself alive partly because of the comic book fan base. They're usually 30 something year old guys and up. And that fan base isn't really interested in new exciting ideas and looking for comics books that explore the protential of the medium. They're interested in reading about their favourite guys in tights they red about when they were kids. And they don't want anything to change.

SBD, you may be on to something there: The only case in DC where a successor truly replaced his predecessor was Wally West, the soon to be written out of existence Flash. And it was only after Barry's death, his continued absence that he was able to build some support. So, to make a long lasting change they would need to get rid of the originals, or somehow separate them from the continuity, and go from there. It's sort of what Marvel did with May Parker and the MC2 line, that lived long beyond most people's expectations.

Themyscira Olympics, now premiering on Starz!

I really liked this episode, not so much for the details but for shining a light on the issue comics have with being extremely serialized on one hand and trying their hardest not to change on the other. I still don't know how they manage it, maybe all of the tight outfits have a mesmerizing quality that make us forget this dissonance.

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