Zero Punctuation: Catherine

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Catherine: Challenging but fun puzzle platform game, cliche romance story. Reminds me of Obsessed(2009). The sheep are more interesting than women. This is a personal opinion. Now if you'll excuse me, I be reading the thrilling tale of Archie andrews. Good day.

He said that you either need to be fully towards commitment or fully towards freedom but that actually isn't true. If you always stay in the middle you will get the 'True Freedom' Ending which ends with Vincent being left by both K/Catherines but also having true freedom and becoming rich.
Well that endingds just shouts, "Fuck women! You still got your bros" directly in your face.

Oh Yahtzee, you self-proclaimed pinnacle of manhood, you! Don't you know that cunty bitches run this world? Beyonce even proclaimed it proudly, the dyke!

I like Catherine or Katherine (or Qatherine or AHSMMMMGHGWQJJStherine with four Ms and a silent Q) because it is a strong statement on the "whipped males" topic, in which the game drops its pants and swinging its package freely in the air while exclaiming, "See what happens when your quest for pussy gets the better of you?" It's uncomfortable to watch, and even more uncomfortable to admit: we are a generation of men raised by women who are conditioned to bow down to the almighty pussy, and there is nothing we can do about it.

Okay feminist, you may now label me as a "chauvinist pig" and nail me on the cross by the dick. Here are your hammers and stakes. XD

I imagine he said it's misogynistic because it portrays men as having only two choices: psycho bitch girlfriend/wife or humorless controlling girlfriend/wife.

Also, rick, who says it's women doing all that? I'm sure there are more than a few women who play into the sainted narrative we speak about women, but I'd say it's just as much, if not more, male influence that says we should go on a mad quest to fuck every woman in the world.

That's really one of the big problems with both genders...we see the other gender as some magical 'other,' that has the power to either save our souls or damn them.

Men, you have the madonna/whore complex, which has quite a few definitions but for me it manifests as "You're either pure or a whore," and I don't mean pure in terms of sexual partners either.

Women, you have the whole "Romance novel lead" vs. "Bastard boyfriend/husband" dynamic going. Men are either perfect knights in shining armor or they are evil personified.

Am I saying that everyone thinks this way? Yes. It seems only natural that we should think of our own gender as the normal, mundane creatures of the world, and the other as either angels or demons.

However, normal people can, and do, find middle ground to see that it's NOT always this way and thus find a mate who falls between the two options.

What we need to do is resolve to find the same middle ground.

Poppa-san working all day to earn money for his wife and children, children-chan going to school to earn good grades, and momma-san sitting at home all day supporting poppa-san and children-chan in carrying out thier pointless, useless and unhappy lives with dinner and laundry; is supposedly a key tenet of japanese culture.

So... The game could possibly be about choosing to be Japanese or not.. Or course the western society of choice of "have fun, leave it to the creditors to pay" is shown in a bit of a negative irresponsible light...

It's like "Nightmare on Elm Street" meets "Q*bert".

One of the best explanations of the game that I have ever heard.

Holy fucking christ, Yahtzee. You're supposed to reach a high then quickly go downhill from there. You hit your high and now you keep going up. I thought after the The Cartel review, you couldn't get much better.

Exceptionally entertaining.
Love the manga eyes :D.

You should watch Cowboy Bebop. Not much missing during a gunfight unless, of course, you're the bad guy which is basically a requirement in their training. To miss their opponent.

Brad Shepard:

itsausernamewhatofit:

Brad Shepard:
I thought it was Trigun.

What? what made you think that?

Gun, mounds and mounds of exposition, stuff like that.

I challenge you to find an episode of Trigun where they don't shoot more than one bullet though.

Thanks to this review, I'm not going to get the game now. Dodged a bullet there.
Great final joke though.

So, does Qatherine try to eat you with her butt or was Yahtzee taking the piss there?

Cephei Mordred:
So, does Qatherine try to eat you with her butt or was Yahtzee taking the piss there?

Nope. He's serious.....

Am I the only one who saw the C/Katherines in this video and immediately thought of Jeanette/Therese from Vampire: Bloodlines?

That brought back some memories...

There are 8 endings to the story mode and 9th ending if you unlock and complete the trials.

of the 8 endings, 3 are True endings, 3 good endings, and 2 bad endings. The outcome of each ending changed the way I felt about Vincent and paints him less of a tool and more of a guy just trying to get his life in order. Once Vincent comes to terms with the events of the story he becomes are completely determined bad-ass by the end of the story, unless you get one of the 2 bad endings. 2 of the endings he doesn't end up with either C/Katherine and is happy just being single (keeping the freedom/order meter in the middle).

The 9th ending doesn't even involve Vincent at all.

Also there is a boss called Child with Chainsaw and it is awesome.

Well, men should be badasses but for their own good, not because women want it.

there's a morals choice aspect where you answer questions based on your own substantial experience with relationships *snickers*

LOL I was snickering halfway through that remark myself :p

hooksashands:
I don't understand this... recurring theme where everybody in a videogame is a living example of some psychological quirk taken to its utmost extreme.

They're copying massively popular, influential and profitable 1995 anime Neon Genesis Evangelion, where the main writer has explicitly stated he conceived the characters with a college psychology textbook in one hand. It was a fairly clever thing to do at the time.

hooksashands:
It's hard to swallow the joke. Not because it brings feelings of inadequacy, but because it decides you, the player, are too shortsighted to see why relationships are a minefield.

Reminds me of the end of Metal Gear Solid 2, which doesn't work very well if you aren't a shallow media whore.

I think it might be because anime is a very niche thing in Japan and there's strong stereotypes about the kind of person that likes it.

I thought that wasn't really true of videogames, though. Maybe I'm wrong.

For all the talk about the "butt monster," there's enough crazy *** bosses to go around

*Spoilers*

Two demon babies who scream "DADDY! WHERE ARE YOU" while chasing you with a chainsaw
Katherine in a wedding dress and a big ******* knife...and she's actually the toughest boss
Catherine in full ***** mode chasing both Vincent AND Katherine up...with no checkpoints (**** that level)
A suave demon bartender with a pistol and shot glasses (and KICKS OF DOOM)!

People whined about the special "hidden ending" to devalue everything Vincent did, but people kept forgetting the game was setup like a TV show. Besides, Trisha looks a million times better than both Katherine characters (at least in that scene).

.. By the sound of things, the main character is just plain naive. Then again, Anime always tends to make genders stand out the wrong way.. as in guys are incredibly dim witted yet somehow have an importance *shrug*.

Am still getting this game because to me.. it's finally something new and very interesting. Great review overall Yahtzee, I am glad you went out of your way to review a game I thought you'd not care for (not saying that offensively by the way).

I agree completely about the story. Vincent is a complete tool. But I love the puzzle. I don't get the lack of autosave critique though. Do you really expect puzzle games to have autosaves in the middle of a puzzle? Can you imagine being able to autosave something like Tetris? I just don't think it's all that necessary.

NameIsRobertPaulson:

Kermi:

NameIsRobertPaulson:

This is true. Everyone alive knows it. Talk about any game on here, and the rampant opinion will be "BEST GAME EVAR!" if Yahtzee liked it and "WORST GAME EVAR!" if Yahtzee despised it. Tragic really.

Have you considered that people who agree with Yahtzee post en masse because they feel vindicated in their choice and the people who disagree post less because they're too timid to go against the flow?

No? No, you're right, you're only allowed to have your own opinion if it's always different from whatever Yahtzee thinks. You remember that the next time he says anything you agree with.

Angry much?

Not at all. I have no reason to be. What I am is derisive.

I never said anything like that.

Actually, I think you did. I believe you said it was "tragic" how people post agreeing with Yahtzee.

But more often than not, whenever discussion of games comes up, I see a great deal of people post Yahtzee's opinion like its the direct judgment of God.

I see very few people post as if Yahtzee's opinion served as a judgement. What I see id people with strong opinions feeling (as I stated already) vindicated because someone who makes popular videos agreed with them.

I agree with Yahtzee sometimes, doesn't mean I'm gonna hate the game because he does.

Who's saying you have to? Strawman.

I disagree sometimes, but it doesn't mean I love that particular game. A good example is Shadow of the Colossus. I agree with him that it is a good game. But I don't like it. Never really like puzzle games.

I also agree Shadow of the Colossus is a good game, and for much the same reason as you, never really got into it myself. I don't really see how this is relevant.

This thread contains people who dislike Catherine (or at least the concept of Catherine) agreeing with Yahtzee because his video supports any argument they might have (and does so in an amusing way, so they proceed with the making of the lulz).

This thread also contains people who consider this behaviour sheeplike, and "tragic".

Comprehende, amigo?

I found the review quite funny and fairly accuracte but I do disagree with Yahtzee's comment about how "sticking in the middle gives you a shit ending" (True Freedom FTW).

As well...

I ended doing my entire playthrough of Catherine with my girlfriend, quite the harrowing experience lol, so I find his statement "based on your own substantial experience with relationships *snort*" a bit inaccurate. Catherine seems to have one of the broadest playerbases out there (in diversity rather than number, as opposed than one the most limited. I'm not sure if that's because of all the hype or that it's actually a good game but I enjoyed the game and I hope you guys can all agree that it's a bit of both.

Otherwise, great review!

P.S. I would recommend everyone giving it a try but rent it rather than buy it.

Kermi:

NameIsRobertPaulson:

Kermi:
Have you considered that people who agree with Yahtzee post en masse because they feel vindicated in their choice and the people who disagree post less because they're too timid to go against the flow?

No? No, you're right, you're only allowed to have your own opinion if it's always different from whatever Yahtzee thinks. You remember that the next time he says anything you agree with.

Angry much?

Not at all. I have no reason to be. What I am is derisive.

I never said anything like that.

Actually, I think you did. I believe you said it was "tragic" how people post agreeing with Yahtzee.

But more often than not, whenever discussion of games comes up, I see a great deal of people post Yahtzee's opinion like its the direct judgment of God.

I see very few people post as if Yahtzee's opinion served as a judgement. What I see id people with strong opinions feeling (as I stated already) vindicated because someone who makes popular videos agreed with them.

I agree with Yahtzee sometimes, doesn't mean I'm gonna hate the game because he does.

Who's saying you have to? Strawman.

I disagree sometimes, but it doesn't mean I love that particular game. A good example is Shadow of the Colossus. I agree with him that it is a good game. But I don't like it. Never really like puzzle games.

I also agree Shadow of the Colossus is a good game, and for much the same reason as you, never really got into it myself. I don't really see how this is relevant.

This thread contains people who dislike Catherine (or at least the concept of Catherine) agreeing with Yahtzee because his video supports any argument they might have (and does so in an amusing way, so they proceed with the making of the lulz).

This thread also contains people who consider this behaviour sheeplike, and "tragic".

Comprehende, amigo?

What is tragic, if you've been following along, is people using Yahtzee's arguments as a barometer for the game without experiencing a game for themselves. So many comments of "Yahtzee hated this game, don't need to play it now." Or even worse "And I was going to get this game too, thanks Yahtzee." I consider it tragic that someone can never experience what might be a great game for them, because a game critic made fun of it. Two of my favorite games of all time were reviewed terribly (Godhand and Sengoku Basara 3). If I had listened to the reviewers and critics, I would have never played them.

Form your own opinions about games. Don't base all your games on the opinion of one man.

CyricZ:

Undeadpool:

I probably screwed up the HTML on this, so I apologize in advance, but off the top of my head I can think of both Mass Effects (the changes aren't massive, but at least characters acknowledge your decisions), Alpha Protocol (which actually does an AMAZING job in that department), Deus Ex, and both Witcher games. I'm not asking for completely different experiences, but the fact that Vincenet just continuously does the same stupid things regardless of what decisions you make is mind-blowingly poor form.
Edit: And actually both Dragon Age games have amazingly good consequences for your actions.

Well, obviously I mistook what you actually wanted. You don't want the story to go off in separate directions based on your choices. You want the freedom to act and have characters in the game react. All the games you mentioned still end up going in the same direction towards the end, narratively. They all have the same general endpoint and climax, just different motivations and ultimate outcomes.

The difference between most of those games and Catherine is that those games make *you* the protagonist, while Catherine doesn't lie about the fact that "Vincent" is the protagonist, and you're merely guiding him, not actually controlling him. Yahtzee has touched on this before in The World Ends With You (with a touch more exaggeration), and it is honestly a very Eastern thing. You're not part of the story, you're merely the witness to it and can subtly alter it on ultimately unimportant lines.

And no, that's not always a good thing, but honestly, if we needed every story we're told to have us as the stars, then movies, TV, books, etc. would have a much tougher job keeping us entertained. I can accept only being an accessory to the end if I feel fulfilled in the journey and outcome.

EDIT: But the reverse can be handled sloppily as well. Think of any game that puts you as the protagonist, then make a choice and find out that the game's leading you down a path you didn't want to go originally. There, the illusion of freedom is shattered, as is the immersion. Then you just have to ask yourself for you, which is more important: being mostly in control but tossed out on your ear when the game won't let you do specifically what you want, or allow yourself to be railroaded if it means things are more cohesive.

Yeah, the DS game Infinite Space really did what you talked about in your edit. It looked like it was giving you choices, but nothing you did made a difference. And frankly I don't need to be the "star" of the game, but having a game with a choice system that doesn't actually listen to your choices is just lazy.

Genixma:

Mr.Tea:
"...your own substantial experience with relationships *AWESOME STIFLED LAUGHTER*"

Oh Yahtzee, you wonderful insult-machine.

Is that what it was? I could of sworn that was a sneezed judging on his voice changing suddenly as if trying to hold it in.

He would have edited it out, were that the case. He edits out every time he pauses for breath after all.

No, what he did was suggest that the mere idea of a gamer with relationship experience is so hilarious that he can barely refrain from openly laughing in our faces (the demographic).

It's not the first time he infers that his audience must all be awkward and fat pimple balls and I think it's hilarious. (as it's all tongue-in-cheek with Yathzee)

i will give you that Vincent is a tool, although he seems a lot more confident and take charge in the dream world. i would have thought yahtzee would have liked it more with the good/evil being replaced by carefree/responsible, but maybe its too close to normal moral choice or maybe it didn't change the story enough? people have said it has several endings across the spectrum, but i haven't played it so i guess i can't confirm.

and come on yahtzee. I'd rather see someone ogling this game than staring at female spartans on halo reach. and don't tell me it doesn't happen because i know one.

ThisNewGuy:
I agree completely about the story. Vincent is a complete tool. But I love the puzzle. I don't get the lack of autosave critique though. Do you really expect puzzle games to have autosaves in the middle of a puzzle? Can you imagine being able to autosave something like Tetris? I just don't think it's all that necessary.

I severely have to disagree here.

While Tetris and Catherine are both from the puzzle genre, it does not mean they should be treated exactly the same.

Catherine is a row of puzzles consecutively leading through a story. They serve to give gameplay as you pass them to continue the story.

Tetris on the other hand, has no story, no end. You're not trying to go anywhere, you're trying to rack a high score. Where ever you lose is your save spot, that becomes your place you have to surpass.

In Catherine, losing means you need to restart doing the level, wich can be annoying and frustrating and can make it take longer to accomplish your goal of seeing how the game ends.

Wich is even more annoying when you're a game reviewer and you need to finish the game on a schedule.

Cavouku:

Nenad:
Well, I just thought, maybe we all can learn something from him?
Although, I understand if you just don't like it.

Though I do think the game could be significantly better with the addition of one scene that depicts one of Vincent's buddies slamming his head onto the table repeatedly, while carefully explaining to him why he's such a pussy.

I've always wondered why they didn't do just that. I mean, both Orlando and Jon seemed like the kind of guys that would have no qualms about doing something like that.

Asuka Soryu:

ThisNewGuy:
I agree completely about the story. Vincent is a complete tool. But I love the puzzle. I don't get the lack of autosave critique though. Do you really expect puzzle games to have autosaves in the middle of a puzzle? Can you imagine being able to autosave something like Tetris? I just don't think it's all that necessary.

snip

I'd just like to point out that the game does have checkpoints. It's not as if you go back to the beginning of the level every time you die.

Which anime was Yahtzee talking about?

He must not have played the game though to the end because explaining things to Catherine would have done no good. She's not just a crazy bitch, she's a demon, and the daughter of the ruler of the netherworld.

Catherine's ending here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6u3Y7GuXxs

Yeah, it's batshit crazy even for a japanese game.

Cavouku:

And besides, what's the future with Catherine, anyways? Keep in mind, I've only played the demo and watched the Susan Arendt review, and this one.

Vince becomes a lord of the netherworld, Nergal (Catherine's dad) is your father-in-law, Catherine is your queen (in her true form she has horns, and glowing red eyes and zebra striped skin and generally looks like something painted on the side of a metal band's tour bus) and a harem of succubus concubines.

So like, Best. Ending. Evar.

Did I hear a gigglesnort in there?

OMFG - I Have that exact Incredible Hulk sliding tile puzzle. I've had that since the 70s.

Atlus does some interesting stuff sometimes. I just moved this to the top of my rental list.

KingKamor:
I didn't expect Yahtzee to like it even in the slightest, but seriously, people.

Don't.
Let.
Internet.
Personalities.
Shape.
Your.
Own.
Opinions.

Sweet Lord, does it piss me off when someone takes everything that Yahtzee says so literally that they simply don't buy any game that HE deems to be sub-par. Think for yourselves you goddamn sheep!

Wait...

So does that mean you LIKED this game! Get him, everyone!

But seriously, I totally agree. You should read a wide range of reviews, consider the developer's own descriptions, watch trailers/gameplay videos and then come to your own conclusion about whether or not you'd enjoy the game.

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