Jimquisition: Angry Birds Is Not Sh*t

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Good episode, played Angry Birds a few times, not my kind of game but I wouldn't say it's bad. But I have to say something, Jim, the whole "thank god for me, I have solved all your problems" thing is kind of wearing thin.

42:
I like how everyone who doesn't like the show continue watching it, so they can continue hating it.

In order to stay objective when criticizing things, one hast to watch/read/play/eat/... it first.
Imagine everybody disliking Jim's videos in the comments didn't watch the episode before doing so. That would be pathetic!

Trapilon:

42:
I like how everyone who doesn't like the show continue watching it, so they can continue hating it.

In order to stay objective when criticizing things, one hast to watch/read/play/eat/... it first.
Imagine everybody disliking Jim's videos in the comments didn't watch the episode before doing so. That would be pathetic!

Yes you have to watch things first before you can formulate an opinion but if you've already watched it, and made an opinion and you don't like said product then why continue watching more episodes? I can understand people watching it to come up with criticism on the topics covered but I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the people who bang on about how they don't like the show. if they don't like it then why bother posting about how they don't like when they can just well ignore it?

NEWSFLASH: Angry birds IS good, haters gonna hate.

I guess I'll chip in with my view of the game, even though I'm a little late.
I got my new smartphone and was looking forward to this game that had everyone so excited. I downloaded it, played it for a few hours, and never played it again. I didn't like the game. I have a lot of casual mobile games, but there was just something that I didn't like about the game. It's not for me, but great for all the people that like it.
Also, Rovio are fuckin' crazy and anything that gives them money needs to be avoided at all cost.

OH MY ATHEISMO! A foreigner who managed to pronounce a Finnish world correctly! What is this? He clearly is divine!

But on topic: It is a good game and it is not destroying our industry. And beside if you so want games that you like... Well start learning that C++, no one is stopping you.

42:

Trapilon:

42:
I like how everyone who doesn't like the show continue watching it, so they can continue hating it.

In order to stay objective when criticizing things, one hast to watch/read/play/eat/... it first.
Imagine everybody disliking Jim's videos in the comments didn't watch the episode before doing so. That would be pathetic!

Yes you have to watch things first before you can formulate an opinion but if you've already watched it, and made an opinion and you don't like said product then why continue watching more episodes? I can understand people watching it to come up with criticism on the topics covered but I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the people who bang on about how they don't like the show. if they don't like it then why bother posting about how they don't like when they can just well ignore it?

Because, unlike shows in TV, here the topic keeps changing every week. And many of the topics in his show are one of two things 1)Worth talking about 2)So obvious and without substance or depth it can be summed up in the title of his videos.
If it falls in the first category one want's to hear, because even he sometimes makes a good point (although it's usually beacuse it falls in the 2nd category, like this episode).

Furrama:

ikoian:

Furrama:
I can't afford a smart phone so... yeah. Most people can't, and those of us who could get a console can't have both. I'm sure the game is wonderful, but is it worth all the extra money monthly?

Monthly? The games only $1
Also, the game is also free on the Google Chrome app store ^-^

OT: I don't get the hate ether. I played Crush the Castle before Angry Birds and I have to say; yes it borrows elements of Crush the Castle, but to say that they're close to the same game shows one has no knowlege in how Angry Birds plays out. The differences isn't even solely in visuals ether.
I mean in Crush The Castle, you get simply more powerful ammo when you progress the game, while Angry Birds (later in the game) gives you a set number of birds per level which all do different things and you have to use them in a set order, giving it a layer of puzzle on top of Crush The Castle's timing and positioning test.

I meant with the phone fees is it worth it. But nice to know it's free somewhere else.

Id say so, considering you just so happen to have a phone with it. But if you're really intrested in using touch screens, but not a new phone, theres also the iPod touch or the iPad. (why isn't it available for the 3DS yet?)

42:
I like how everyone who doesn't like the show continue watching it, so they can continue hating it. quite annoying really. and Rovio really do need to take their heads out of the ground if they think console gaming is over, THERE IS NOTHING INNOVATIVE ABOUT GESTURES ON A TOUCH SCREEN.

Agreed, there's plenty of room for both along with extra leg room for when virtual reality becomes a home thing.

I enjoy Angry birds. It's good, harmless fun and isn't going to kill gaming. Endless iterations of Call of Duty might, but a few touchscreen apps won't.

Anyone else think that Jimmy has mellowed a lot since he first appeared here? In fact all the videos of late he has been thoroughly reasonable.

And on the subject of iPhone games there are actually some REALLY good ones out there.

Like Rage HD, such a damn fine game that I absolutely LOVE for the gyroscope based "virtual Window" control scheme. It makes it more than just "good for an iOS game" it makes it a GOOD GAME! Full Stop.

The way it works is the gyroscope can always tell precisely where the iPod (I played on an ipod touch 4th gen) so to look around 360 degrees you actually have to turn around on your feet 360 degrees and to look up.

The result is exactly as it describes, it is like a "virtual window" and are able to aim INCREDIBLY PRECISELY! And fast too, I am able to aim almost as well as with a mouse, definitely better than with something like an Xbox 360 Controller.

And the best part: it's free

I think it is free forever (though it may be for just this week) either way, the original price was 1.20 and SO WORTH IT! But I only recommend it if you have an iPad, Iphone 4 or iTouch 4th-gen as it is the gryoscope controls that REALLY make the game shine.

I'm serious, give this a go. I only considered it on John Carmack's repeated recommendation and I was so surprised at how well it played.

ArkhamHorror:

Therumancer:
I have to say I disagree with Jim here, by saying in response that just because something is popular does not mean that it isn't shit. He seems to be argueing that the popularity of "Angry Birds" equates to it being a good game.

This is the point at which I would have stopped you because you're a bit mistaken. The idea is that a game's popularity is not directly proportional to its quality in either direction. His opinion about its quality is just that--an opinion. I can't vouch for the game without having played it, but I wouldn't hesitate to give it a fair chance if I had the opportunity.

The reason why there is so much outcry by the so called "hardcore" crowd, and really I sort of mean your middle of the road gamers rather than the actual hardcore crowd (which I could write a huge essay on myself), is that the success of "Angry Birds" both encourages the casual market and more importantly the developers to cater to the casual market. After all, why should a company spend millions upon millions of dollars developing a really good game for serious gamers, when they can poop out a relatively cheap app and sell it to the casuals and make as much if not more money.

This is where things start to fall apart. I hear this argument all the time. Somehow casual and social games are a major threat to the 'hardcore' industry because of how much less effort is required to produce them than big budget mainstream titles. First of all I can't see any evidence that there has been any impact to begin with and thus far nobody has been willing to show me an example. Sure it makes sense to take the most profitable route, but casual games aren't what the hardcore industry has its eyes on. They're much more interested in Call of Duty's market.

The basic idea I'm getting at is that stagnant shooters are much more of a threat than causal games (true casual games, not the 'easy' games that inspires so much whining). I don't have the energy to keep this up, but it's a discussion I'd very much like to see.

Actually, the problem is that a lot of people, like you apparently, won't see or acknowlege the problem until it's too late. We haven't seen casual games destroy serious games yet because the companies making games are still in the process of adjusting themselves to the new models. If you read news about the industry, pretty much all the game developers talk about the changing landscape and wanting to go towards the casual games where the money is, it's just that the casual market developed fairly recently and multi-billion dollar industries can't turn on a dime.

We've seen this kind of thing before, at least to an extent. While there ARE differances this kind of "let's produce games for the casual crowd!" fueled the collapse of the video game industry in the 1980s with game developers simply deciding they didn't care about quality. Of course at that point you didn't have the lowest human denominator in the market to support that kind of development, right now we do. With the current attitudes going the way they are, we're looking at an industry that will gladly produce the equivilent of "ET" along with an audience that will buy it and probably tell you it's great and your simply a "hater" for criticizing it. Of course "Angry Birds" isn't "ET", it's more to the low-middle end of the spectrum than something that is worthy only of a landfill. The thing is people trying to make it out to be a good game, when it's not, it's simply a game for the casual players that was better than some truely terrible fare and thus benefitted from being in the right place at the right time (so to speak).

As far as shooter games being "Hardcore", well that's the thing... they aren't. Shooters are just another form of casual game, except designed for people who embrace violence in entertainment as opposed to shying away from it. Shooters are like "The Expendables" compared to your typical "Chick Flick" or morality drama, another side of the same basic coin, mindless popcorn fodder aimed at the lowest human denominator.

While RPGs are not the only thing that can be considered harcore, done correctly they generally tend to be hardcore games. The desire for casual dollars however is why you see companies like "Bioware" talking about shying away from RPGs and moving towards shooters and other games aimed for a more casual crowd. They figure they can bank on the storytelling because everyone can appreciate a story, even the casuals have at least paged through a "my little golden book" at some point, and really the current trend is to make the storytelling more like TV or movies, and shying away from the need to read at all because the casual players (no matter what they see themselves as) frequently complain about having to actually read things while playing games. RPGs are getting axed so hard because while profitable there are far more people who are interested in immediate gratification, than in indirect control, micromanagement, and similar things that actually define the genere. There really isn't a lot that can be done with the genere (which has nothing to do with storytelling) that is going to make it appealing to that crowd, as even the most basic "introductory level" RPG is going to be too complicated for your casual and also not provide the same kind of immediate gratification that they happen to desire.

Things like "Call Of Duty" are pretty much "Farmville" or "Angry Birds" for a differant face of the same, very large demographic, and while flashier, with better graphics, and violence, they tend to involve a similar level of intellectual sophistication. Move cursor, click down, and point gun pull trigger are on a pretty similar mental level, they just appeal to differant types of people.

There is no nice way to say this, but understand I see shooters as part of the problem overall, it's just that this isn't what we're talking about.

Like him or hate him, I find that Jim brings some pretty good topics to the table, that I might have never been aware of. This is likely because I don't seek out things to be upset about, but I really like to be aware of these popular debates, as I am interested in hot button topics in the video game community. I for one really like this show and look forward to it every week.

Thank God, for... what's his face? You know, the guy with the show 'n stuff... ah well.

On another note, I think my two favorite videos are the one where he talks about games that revel in their own weirdness, and why Duke can not functionally be cool. I reference both of those, as they bring up many good points not just for games, but entertainment in general.

I have no problem with people using or adapting previous ideas and what not like Crush the Castle did but this doesn't really adapt the concept much or change it all. From what I have played it just changed the art style and added a slightly different story but I am not saying everything has to be 100% new or original. Personally, Angry Birds just didn't push the envelope and evolve enough from its source so to speak which is why I don't see the point in essentially paying for a game you can play for free.

I am one to play "Casual" style games the odd time like Puzzle Quest and Bejewelled among others so no I don't just hate it because it is popular and before anyone says I know it is not an exact copy of Crush the Castle and does add some puzzle style elements but it is not enough to sway me to buy it.

I just wish people would remember good and bad can be quite subjective terms although with games you can have a clear good and bad so while this is not a broken game it cannot be objectively bad and people can still hate the game for having a boring, unoriginal, little improved upon concept or not like the art style of the game, find the puzzles a bit boring or repetitive yet another person can have another opposite opinion. So can we stop declaring the game is just good(which it isn't as that is subjective) and some people may have reason to hate(like those mentioned). Not everyone hates something because it is popular.

Was reeeeealy bored and decided to watch this episode. I'm regretting it already.

Little bit of background. I don't play many AAA titles. I'm indie all the way. I'm also old school. Like way old. I had scorched earth on a 3.5" floppy that I played in the school lab. I'm not hating against this game because it's popular. I'm not even really hating on it. But I don't like it.

I don't like angry birds because it does the one thing that I can't stand in a "physics based puzzler." That is that by it's nature it's solutions are unpredictable and unreproducible. It's the same reason why I hated Crash the Castle and Peggle. You can redo the same thing you did in the last move and due to immeasurable differences in your input was get a radically different outcome. So you don't know if when you fail you're on the wrong track all together or just off by nanopixels. So you end up redoing the same thing over and over again hoping to by luck run across the winning move so you can go to the next level where what you've learned in the last one is rendered completely unusable.

Forgive me for not being thrilled.

In fact I feel sorry for anyone who finds this fun. You aren't playing this game. There's no thought or strategy involved. You're just turning the crank until you get your "now be happy" sound and flashy visuals, sighing contently, and moving on to the next level to do it all again. This isn't play. This is behavioral conditioning. This is skinners box. And you are the pigeon.

I think it's bad that people are paying for a game you can get clones of for free off the internet (clones that pre-date the game). Not that I think only bad has come out of Angry Birds.

I prefer games like Fruit Ninja. Sure it's far more simplistic than angry birds, but it just wouldn't work with a mouse or a controller, and nobody would buy it as a full fledged game for the DS.

First, I want to comment on the video itself. Complete 180 from the last one I watched, with the visuals going from a bunch of crude pictures to just gameplay footage for 6 minutes. Couldn't you think of something more creative to put on the screen that's not as crude as what I watched last time, to differentiate yourself from other internet commentators?

That said, I agree with the message about casual games in general, but I've gotta ask too, where was all the hate for Angry Birds coming from? I never saw anybody hating on it until this thread.

It just seems that Angry Birds changed the art style and presentation of Castle Crushers, marketed it better, then made a gazillion dollars from it. I think that is the bigger crime here than some people raging about the game being the end of humanity. Where did all the originality = reward go?

Therumancer:
snip

I'll be honest, I can't take these long winded rants seriously. I see similar things so often that I've just learned to ignore them. Personally I think you're overreacting, especially when suggesting that Angry Birds is the modern E.T. (I'm pretty sure there wasn't a big casual vs core market back then making this a very different situation.) That's pretty hyperbolic.

What would you do to solve this situation?

viranimus:

Except the general consensus has been that while the first couple of episodes were not really that good, the later ones are where Jim found his stride and the show is worth watching now. So perhaps you might want to make an opinion based on knowledge rather than speculation.

The general consensus should really be that he neutered himself for the Escapist fans it was far better back when it was just destructoid and he was being as offensive as possible humping sonic dolls and actually making a valid yet highly offensive point...where as here he's just regurgitating what the other escapist contributors have said before so as to gain advertising dollars.

Thank you Jim Sterling. Your brilliance and common sense have saved the games industry once again.

Seriously, why do people have to bitch and moan about a game that's doing more to boost the game industry than all the tired, repetitive first person shooters that seem to get the greatest budgets. And I have nothing against the genre as a whole, yet so-called "hard-core gamers" seem to think that if it doesn't pander exclusively to them, it's a serious threat to the medium as a whole.

I for one applaud such games as Angry Birds and Farmville for bringing positive notoriety and money to the otherwise overgrown industry.

Now, I might be wrong, but I think Angry Birds is a great game. Not in the conventional sense, though. It's comes from a genre that has no conceivable future, and I found it average at best. It's good in the sense that it is user friendly enough to introduce many, MANY people into gaming. And I think we ALL know that the only way for a medium to develop is a large consumer base, despite what some other elitist, hardcore fanboys might tell you. Sure it has only gotten the Angry Birds gamers only into mobile gaming, but I know at least one person, who actually absorbed all the media anti-game propaganda, but after she was introduced to Angry Birds, went on to find Valve, and last time I talked to her she was all hyped for the new Deus Ex, so as to see what all the fuss was about he first one. Same way as Farmville and Wii Fit both take mediocrity to a new level, but are harmless and user-friendly enough to make many households more videogame-friendly.

Now, I might be wrong, but I think Angry Birds is a great game. Not in the conventional sense, though. It's comes from a genre that has no conceivable future, and I found it average at best. It's good in the sense that it is user friendly enough to introduce many, MANY people into gaming. And I think we ALL know that the only way for a medium to develop is a large consumer base, despite what some other elitist, hardcore fanboys might tell you. Sure it has only gotten the Angry Birds gamers only into mobile gaming, but I know at least one person, who actually absorbed all the media anti-game propaganda, but after she was introduced to Angry Birds, went on to find Valve, and last time I talked to her she was all hyped for the new Deus Ex, so as to see what all the fuss was about he first one. Same way as Farmville and Wii Fit both take mediocrity to a new level, but are harmless and user-friendly enough to make many households more videogame-friendly.

Nothing wrong with angry birds, its a great time killer but thats about it. Its not the 1st in its class? No shit but its well made, quite fluid and looks good.
The old, dont like it? Dont play it

HyenaThePirate:
Great stuff Jim. It's good to see you taking time out to tackle issues other people seem afraid to discuss.

Also, you were great in Karate Dog. You're performance was better than Jon Voight's.

hey you have some brown on your nose, wait what is it, it smell like... oh, well um anyway,
i agree with the dude who got banned but i wont abuse this show just because i dont like it, i think jim was born wishing he was yahtzee. and the show isnt really covering anything that needs to be discussed so im outahere.

Tanksie:

HyenaThePirate:
Great stuff Jim. It's good to see you taking time out to tackle issues other people seem afraid to discuss.

Also, you were great in Karate Dog. You're performance was better than Jon Voight's.

hey you have some brown on your nose, wait what is it, it smell like... oh, well um anyway,
i agree with the dude who got banned but i wont abuse this show just because i dont like it, i think jim was born wishing he was yahtzee. and the show isnt really covering anything that needs to be discussed so im outahere.

Then my joke was lost on you.
Go watch Karate Dog.
Then come back and we'll talk about how to best help you get over that bad case of Hateroids you've got going on.

Mid-Boss:
Anything.... ANYTHING.... AN-Y-THING popular will have people trying to set themselves apart and feel superior by hating it irrationally.

Yeah, kinda like with how the Escapist community hates Fox News.

Seriously, I've never seen ANY website THIS dedicated and united in snot-nosed bashing of a fucking TV channel.

UltraHammer:

Mid-Boss:
Anything.... ANYTHING.... AN-Y-THING popular will have people trying to set themselves apart and feel superior by hating it irrationally.

Yeah, kinda like with how the Escapist community hates Fox News.

Seriously, I've never seen ANY website THIS dedicated and united in snot-nosed bashing of a fucking TV channel.

That hate is not irrational or fashionable. This is a site for gaming and gamers and Fox News has a firm stance that games are shit and gamers are silly, violent, man children.

It's because games don't have an special interest party to throw money into elections. Also, MANY gamers are not conservative voters. So it's one of the few things they can openly attack without any repercussions. On top of that... Old, white, wealthy, men, their core voters, are frightened and confused by anything new and different and video games are both of those things.

Video games are the PERFECT target for Fox News. We wouldn't be seeing them on here if they didn't pull some increasingly retarded BS out of their ass to throw at us as one of their daily stunts to assuage their small minded, hateful, demographic that Fox News is on their side against a big SCARY world filled with technology, different beliefs, poor people, women, and minorities.

UltraHammer:

Mid-Boss:
Snip

I refer you to my newest post: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.311573-Fox-News-Attacks-Environmentally-Conscious-Games?page=10#12616262

Wow, you must be the one person on this website that actually willing watches that channel. No thanks. I get my daily dose of ignorance and racism from my conservative co workers. Couldn't possibly stomach any more.

Mid-Boss:
Wow, you must be the one person on this website that actually willing watches that channel. No thanks. I get my daily dose of ignorance and racism from my conservative co workers. Couldn't possibly stomach any more.

"I am going to automatically dismiss your argument without reading it all. Or at least, without actually arguing against it." Smooth.

UltraHammer:

Mid-Boss:
Wow, you must be the one person on this website that actually willing watches that channel. No thanks. I get my daily dose of ignorance and racism from my conservative co workers. Couldn't possibly stomach any more.

"I am going to automatically dismiss your argument without reading it all. Or at least, without actually arguing against it." Smooth.

I'm sorry. I guess only Fox can get away with doing that.

The problem i have with the whole Angry Birds thing isnt that its popular per se, but that the time effort and money spent on the incessant and mind-numbingly blatant, beat-you-over-the-head-with-it marketing campaign for this shit far FAR outstrips that put into the development of the game itself. They have spent millions and millions on Superbowl ads, movie tie-ins, t-shirts and merchandise, and even paid mentions in scripted television shows all for a goddamn flash browser game. Its insane. Triple-A titles dont get this much hype.

Although that is pretty much the Apple M.O. for every product they sell--5% product, 95% convincing people theyre not cool unless they buy it. And Angry Birds probably does have the distinction of being the only game predominately available on an Apple platform since, i dont know, Escape Velocity Override?

I took it for granted that Angry Birds was good/great/fun, at least until I played it.

Now I think it's shit, based entirely on its own merits.

Furrama:
Go make your own show if you think you can do better, bitching here isn't winning you any favors. In fact, you're only adding to his view count and revenue.

Ees good thing, no?:3

I'm a PC gamer because I like the mouse & keyboard combo (& because I'm cheap & will often pause a video game to browse websites). I imagine console gamers play consoles because they like gamepads & can actually focus on something for more than 2 seconds.

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