Jimquisition: The Beautiful Irony of PC Gaming

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I'll admit to being misinformed about PC gaming and Jim has indeed enlightened me. It's probably because everybody I know who games on their PC is constantly upgrading and bragging about it, and those who have a low end PC don't really game with it.

Well guess i'll find out soon enough. A friend is giving me their old PC for free and I'll be seeing what I can do with it.

Still, I will most likely be primarily a console gamer. Frankly I don't see how a mouse and keyboard can possibly be preferable to a controller. (though i'm sure pc gamers feel the opposite)

ruben6f:
I disagree, I will use S.T.A.L.K.E.R games as an example, sure they are great with the lowest settings ( the ones I play with *cries) but if you play with the highest settings or with a mod that makes the game look even better then the game becomes immersive and scary.

Yes there are awsome titles on PC that don't need graphics but good graphics create a feeling of immersion that can only be found on PC.

Well, of course the graphics are important but they arent the only thing and STALKER also proves his point, it is a more open minded game with a lot of stuff that is out of the ordinary (like bleeding, the dificulty of the game, some gameplay mechanics, etc).

That is why when pc gamers cry that a game has been tweaked for consoles (although a lot of times they dont have reasons for such claims) they mean that the game will be more basic and less innovative. Console games will usually hold the players hand while PC games (not all of them of course, but having STALKER as an example) will say "FUCK YOU" and drop the player in a game that is hard to master (Witcher 2 is like this too).

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but: Emulation.

I know I've seen 360's that can support it, and I'm not sure about PS3's, but Emulation both started and is at its strongest on the PC. And you wanna talk about true gems that are neither graphically astonishing or requiring a $3k computer to run, go no further. I have a 5-year old laptop, 512 MB RAM, about 1.6 GHz processor, and it can run SNES, N64 and PS1 Emulators without fail. If not for Emulation, I'd never have been able to play Earthbound, Xenogears, Seiken Densetsu 3, Banjo-Tooie, Conker's Bad Fur Day, the list goes on.

Not only is Emulation a great way to access the gems of the past, but it's also a VERY cheap way. Like I said, you don't need a whole lot of processing power to run emulators - a modern bargain-bin computer or equivalent older computer will do - and pretty much all of the ROMs on the Internet are completely free. I'm sure there will always be the nagging uncertainty of legality when it comes to emulation, but then most sites are pretty clear on what they can and can't offer. For instance, I believe ever since Nintendo started releasing their older games in their WiiShop, most ROM sites have had to take down various Mario and Donkey Kong properties. But that's a drop in the bucket compared to how much else is out there! If there's an older game you've always been wondering about, grab an Emulator, the ROM, and a PC Controller and have fun!

Doom is awesome. In fact, I did the same thing when I first got a 360. I stumbled across Doom in the XBLA, bought it, and played that while the new 360 games I had also bought sat somewhere still in their plastic wrap. And this is after I'd already played it countless times on PC and still had it there. And later I bought the Doom Complete Pack on Steam because it was on sale even though I only wanted Doom 3, Doom 3 RoE, and Master Levels for Doom 2. ...Some might say I have a problem, but fuck those people, it's Doom!

Anyway, I expected to hear "mods" or "keyboard+mouse", not graphics. If that's what some people want then. But whatever, I've been playing fine so far on a computer that's getting rather old now. I'll probably need to upgrade around the time where the heavy graphics get standard as new consoles come out and they push that tech further, but for now I can run even newer games pretty well so I'm happy. I want to upgrade more for better video editing and rendering power rather than games.

I want that pen.

Glory to the God-Emperor!

bombadilillo:

Not exactly maxing out then is it?

I think you missed the point of my post.

oh god where did he get that awesome chainsword?

Hobonicus:

bombadilillo:

Not exactly maxing out then is it?

I think you missed the point of my post.

I think YOU missed the point of asserting you can max graphics with the described rig, except you can't. So you made a point then disproved it.

Anyway whatever. I want challanging your point

It was just funny to hear. I CAN MAX THIS. EXCEPT THE SETTINGS ARENT ON MAX.

"Pen is mightier than the sword". Well the space marines proved that wrong.

I really want to hate you Jim. But you love PC gaming and now I am conflicted.

AC10:
There are a few false claims in this video, the first being that the source engine is the same engine as it was in 2004.

Valve constantly updates it, they even retroactively added HDR lighting to all of Half Life 2 via patches (which is why it still looks so good). This is like saying that because the Infinity Ward Engine uses the Quake 3 team arena engine called ID Tech 3 (and yes, it does) that it's now a 13 year old engine, despite all the extensions IW made to it. It's a completely fallacious statement and I feel it was wrong of Jim to lie like that.

Additionally, Recettear actually does require a pretty powerful computer because it was optimized like absolute shit.

ALL that being said, I understand the point of this video. PC is driving innovation not through graphics, but through gameplay. I also support trying to get non pc-gamers to try out some of the more unique but easy to run titles.

Infinity Ward also updates their engine for each COD, but it is fundamentally the same engine. There are clues that can tell you immediately if something is running off of the Source Engine for example.

Hm. Well as someone who has tried getting into PC gaming I have some issues with your statements Mr. sterling. For one thing when you say people can play most pc games what kind of games are you referring to? Anyone can play the endless sea of flash games but actual games that you buy welllll. Okay. So I have a new windows 7 computer right? Okay I didn't build it myself it was a gift from my father so it's new and I keep it running well. Okay then lets go and play Spore that game came out a year or so ago and I actually liked it. Won't really run on my windows 7. Okay. Lets play dragon age instead. It works! For a day. After a whole day of playing my computer needs to empty out all the cache and restart just to get rid of the lag the game gives me and this is even with special software just to run video games better.

Ya know that doom game you were talking about? I hate doom and all shooting games especially during that era but ya know what I did play back then? Point and click adventure games like pajama sam and cluefinders. and I can't really play those things on my windows 7 either. Luckily I have an old vista laptop that can play those games but still. New hardware sometimes has some serious roadblocks for old software. That said I can get privateer and some old games to run on my system but it's a shot in the dark to do so.

One of these days i'm going to buy a computer piece by piece and get all the specs checked out and even build it with my own two hands. That computer will get me into PC gaming no problem and pretty much any game new or old would run well and all these problems would go away. But so far that Computer has been estimated to be about 770 dollars. Kind of more expensive than say buying a PS3 getting a littlebig planet combo deal that bundles an extra controller. and then just getting a 50 dollar gift card for psn and going to town. You have some nice points but it still doesn't negate the fact that PCs are a variable system and nothing is quite concrete as it is when you get a console.

Human Revolution was a bad example.
It's graphics are pretty unimpressive for it's time.
I would have chosen Crysis or Metro 2033.

I built my PC for $700 a few months ago to replace my ancient 6 year old gaming computer, and it's been able to run everything I've thrown at it so far. My most recent purchase (that was graphically intensive by any means) was Deus Ex: Human Revolution, which it was able to run maxed out without breaking a sweat, though I have also been recently spending time playing games that could run on a graphic calculator (The original Deus Ex, Telltale's adventure games, Bastion, etc) as well as revisiting some of my childhood games through emulators.

I find the beauty of PC gaming is that I can enjoy both modern and classic titles all on the same machine with the same control interface I've become so comfortable with, and I get to enjoy some of the quirkier games that have been PC-only or only found success on the PC platform.

Plus, modding. Let us never forget the wonders and joys of modding.

I don't know if anyone has pointed this out, but "Recettear: An Items Shop's Tale" is pronounced like Racketeer, which is a person who runs an illegal business. I know what you're saying to yourself, how the fuck do you know, Captain Fuckin' Know-it-all!?!

The easy answer is that I have played that game extensively and they make a joke about the name and what it sounds like in the first 20 minutes of the game. I was saying it that exact same way prior to that.

Jumplion:
I was expecting the "irony" of PC gaming would be that whenever someone complains about the graphics/visuals of a certain game being muddy or ugly, people will go off and say "Graphics don't make the game! I could play a game that's nothing but mud so long as it's fun!"

And then, whenever the topic of PC vs. Consoles comes up, the PC crowd almost always goes off saying how pathetic the console's are when it comes to hardware, how they all upscale their games, not true 1080p, how their RAM is so pitiful, how their PC games can run 100+ frames per second, etc....

Generally, that's the biggest irony/hypocrisy I find with PC gaming.

thats not ironic or hypocritical. Its two different facts
fact number one is that they can play things on so-so graphics
fact number two is they like the fact pc can have much better graphics.
And they can both be true statements, i have as much fun with magicka as i have with graphics demanding games with brink (perhaps more). But i do still enjoy shinyness, and who wouldn't.

Unfortunately for me, I am an avid PC gamer with a PC incapable of running EYE or Amnesia, or some of my favourite games on above minimum settings.
I need a new PC.

bombadilillo:

Hobonicus:

bombadilillo:

Not exactly maxing out then is it?

I think you missed the point of my post.

I think YOU missed the point of asserting you can max graphics with the described rig, except you can't. So you made a point then disproved it.

Anyway whatever. I want challanging your point

It was just funny to hear. I CAN MAX THIS. EXCEPT THE SETTINGS ARENT ON MAX.

The point was that it's a five year old computer and still does very well, sorry if missing the word "almost" invited derision. It's generally accepted in the PC community (at least among non-elitists) that when talking about maxing out a game you don't take native resolution and anti-aliasing into account.

There are a lot of graphics features that aren't considered necessary for something to be "maxed out", it's not used with the dictionary definition. Otherwise, there would be too many "Maxed out, but-" situations over (often trivial) changes that increase the cost exponentially, such as ubersampling.

Ok,so Jim's been kinda hit and miss over his tenure here, but all is forgiven for showing up with that chainsword. Where, how much, how soon? :D :D :D

Man if he's going to talk about not needing great graphics for a cool game should mention Civilisation or something of the like.

Da Orky Man:

By "old lucas arts games", KotOR? I've discovered that my year-old, 1.6ghz netbook can run it. HELLS YEAH!!!

I bought KotOR off Steam and am replaying it RIGHT NOW. +1!!!

But I'll see your KotOR and raise you Loom. LOOM!!!!!!

Matthew94:
Great video, but I hated eye. It was a buggy piece of shit and infinite respawning really pisses me off when a fucking attack chopper comes at you every minute along with rocket launcher wielding goons.

Now if only console players would listen to this video...

You don't need to upgrade a PC every year and it doesn't cost thousands for a PC. Also the games are cheaper.

The mis-information annoys me.

See, a lot of console gamers are actually playing a lot of good old PC games and use console for latest AAA titles. Like myself. I play Quake, Amnesia, other good PC games on PC, I buy stuff like Bulletstorm or Batman for PS3.

Swifty714:

varulfic:

Swifty714:
Still, console gaming is cheaper.

Except no, because you have to actually buy a console. Pretty much everyone already has a computer. Including you I assume, unless you posted from your phone or something.

Except yes, Console gaming is still cheaper.

People that have been posting, have said the have been paying 200 euro or more, just to get an upgrade. My Xbox 360 lasted me 4 years before I finally needed to 'upgrade' which even then only costed me $140 dollars at the local shop.

Also, not all computers are designed to run games. Mine is just a general purpose laptop.

Um...no, it's not. In the long run console gaming is FAR more expensive than PC gaming. Far more.

For example, to buy a new console within the at least the first year of release is every bit as expensive as buying brand-new hardware for a PC. Years later, the price of the console goes down but so too does the price of equivalent (and often times better) PC hardware. Ergo, your statement of "My Xbox 360 lasted me 4 years before I finally needed to 'upgrade' which even then only costed me $140 dollars" is a moot point. (also, upgrade? I literally laughed at this.) You paid $140 dollars for hardware that's at least 5 years old. I could spend that on upgrading a low-level PC and still end up with hardware far better than the 360.

Add to this the price of paying for things like Live, extra expense in the price of games, expensive proprietary control input devices, storage upgrades, other miscellaneous costs for services within consoles inherent closed systems, and console makers affinity for price hikes and in the end you pay far more over the years to game on something that has less than a third of the capabilities of a PC gaming rig. (and this doesn't include topics like modding, backwards compatibility, etc, etc)

I've often found those that say console gaming is "better" and/or "cheaper" are the same kinds of people that think like some of the die-hard Mac fans. I've met some that are convinced that once they buy a Mac computer, it's the only one they'll ever need. That somehow, Apple will "upgrade" the thing with software patches. And that these "upgrades" will allow them to run any bit of software for the foreseeable future.

Today's "newest" consoles are built on hardware that's well over half a decade old. Paying more than $100 for one (with controllers) is the exact same as someone needless spending $3000 on some top-of-the-line gaming rig. It's stupid either way.

Volothos:

Baneat:

sir.rutthed:
Error 200 Stream not found. Please fix.

Works just fine.

A: What's that big sword?
B: What's that game that looked like Serious Sam but had a few weapons I haven't seen?

A. Relic, i think they made space marine, gave him a wooden chainsword.
B.I wanna know too.

OT: In this case i think we should thank the god emperor...
Great vid Jim, cant wait till next week!

It is Serious Sam. Well the 3rd HD remake.

ms_sunlight:

Da Orky Man:

By "old lucas arts games", KotOR? I've discovered that my year-old, 1.6ghz netbook can run it. HELLS YEAH!!!

I bought KotOR off Steam and am replaying it RIGHT NOW. +1!!!

But I'll see your KotOR and raise you Loom. LOOM!!!!!!

Say hi to Bastila for me.

I see your Loom, and raise you The Curse of Monkey Island.

Stall:
Jim uses a lot of logical fallacies and very deceptive arguing, doesn't he? He's INCREDIBLY fond of straw men. I don't think anyone would say graphics are super important on PC exclusives, many of which he cited to construct his argument, but graphics are most certainly important when comparing the PC and console version of a multiplat. I'd like to see Jim do the same video, but using only multiplats to support his argument. Odds say his little thesis would fall flat on its face.

Graphics are one of the biggest reasons to play a multiplat on PC, which is something he totally and absolutely neglected. He used a straw man in the form of graphically unimpressive PC exclusives, aka where no one cares about graphics. He didn't refute the central point, however. Overall.... a pretty poor episode.

I think you're missing the point pretty hard. The point isn't that PC hardware being superior makes it a better/competitive choice for gaming. It's that regardless of hardware, a lot more games come out for it, and that because of that there's going to be a lot more diverse, creative, and interesting ones to be found. PCgaming strength lies not so much in what it can do better, as the things it can do that consoles simply can't. Licensing fees, the inability to offer the game as a downloadable title for consoles, and the huge financial risk they'd have to take in order to get the money to put their game on on enough shelves to cover the cost of doing so means small developers wanting to make a game pretty much have to do so on PC. And even with PSN and XBLA, that limits their audience and good bit and makes it hard to build a reliable fanbase. So if you want to access this huge stockpile of games, you have to go PC. And while a lot of those games suck, or are just average, with that many games there's going to be a lot of gems. Most of the good games for PS3 and 360? They're on PC too. Most of the good games on PC? Most console gamers will never hear of.

Sure, the PCs graphics might be better, but that's a pretty insignificant point when compared to the shitload of games I'd never have been able play if I stuck with a console. That, I believe, is what's meant by the title Irony of PC Gaming. It's like(Warning: Horribly exaggerated metaphor incoming) praising the smoothness of how a machine runs, when the machine in question cures cancer. Sure, you might be right that it runs really smooth, but if you want to tout it's quality, there's something a lot better to point out for that.

bahumat42:

Jumplion:
I was expecting the "irony" of PC gaming would be that whenever someone complains about the graphics/visuals of a certain game being muddy or ugly, people will go off and say "Graphics don't make the game! I could play a game that's nothing but mud so long as it's fun!"

And then, whenever the topic of PC vs. Consoles comes up, the PC crowd almost always goes off saying how pathetic the console's are when it comes to hardware, how they all upscale their games, not true 1080p, how their RAM is so pitiful, how their PC games can run 100+ frames per second, etc....

Generally, that's the biggest irony/hypocrisy I find with PC gaming.

thats not ironic or hypocritical. Its two different facts
fact number one is that they can play things on so-so graphics
fact number two is they like the fact pc can have much better graphics.
And they can both be true statements, i have as much fun with magicka as i have with graphics demanding games with brink (perhaps more). But i do still enjoy shinyness, and who wouldn't.

I can understand wanting a fast PC with good performance, but that is not quite my point. I think it can fall into ironic/hypocritical as many of the people who say that "graphics don't matter" go on to reverse that when talking about PC vs. Consoles, something I have seen many times.

I'm talking about those that just scoff at a PC port that doesn't allow for, I dunno, HDR lighting or something means that the developer are "dumbing down" for consoles, and label the fact that the PC version of the game can support 4xAA rather than the console version with 2xAA as the sole reason why it is superior. At the same time, some of them backtrack and say graphics aren't important, yet cite graphical capabilities as a reason for superiority.

I just find it odd, is all.

Swifteye:
Hm. Well as someone who has tried getting into PC gaming I have some issues with your statements Mr. sterling. For one thing when you say people can play most pc games what kind of games are you referring to? Anyone can play the endless sea of flash games but actual games that you buy welllll. Okay. So I have a new windows 7 computer right? Okay I didn't build it myself it was a gift from my father so it's new and I keep it running well. Okay then lets go and play Spore that game came out a year or so ago and I actually liked it. Won't really run on my windows 7. Okay. Lets play dragon age instead. It works! For a day. After a whole day of playing my computer needs to empty out all the cache and restart just to get rid of the lag the game gives me and this is even with special software just to run video games better.

Ya know that doom game you were talking about? I hate doom and all shooting games especially during that era but ya know what I did play back then? Point and click adventure games like pajama sam and cluefinders. and I can't really play those things on my windows 7 either. Luckily I have an old vista laptop that can play those games but still. New hardware sometimes has some serious roadblocks for old software. That said I can get privateer and some old games to run on my system but it's a shot in the dark to do so.

One of these days i'm going to buy a computer piece by piece and get all the specs checked out and even build it with my own two hands. That computer will get me into PC gaming no problem and pretty much any game new or old would run well and all these problems would go away. But so far that Computer has been estimated to be about 770 dollars. Kind of more expensive than say buying a PS3 getting a littlebig planet combo deal that bundles an extra controller. and then just getting a 50 dollar gift card for psn and going to town. You have some nice points but it still doesn't negate the fact that PCs are a variable system and nothing is quite concrete as it is when you get a console.

Do you even have a dedicated GPU?

Vigormortis:

Swifty714:

varulfic:
Except no, because you have to actually buy a console. Pretty much everyone already has a computer. Including you I assume, unless you posted from your phone or something.

Except yes, Console gaming is still cheaper.

People that have been posting, have said the have been paying 200 euro or more, just to get an upgrade. My Xbox 360 lasted me 4 years before I finally needed to 'upgrade' which even then only costed me $140 dollars at the local shop.

Also, not all computers are designed to run games. Mine is just a general purpose laptop.

Um...no, it's not. In the long run console gaming is FAR more expensive than PC gaming. Far more.

For example, to buy a new console within the at least the first year of release is every bit as expensive as buying brand-new hardware for a PC. Years later, the price of the console goes down but so too does the price of equivalent (and often times better) PC hardware. Ergo, your statement of "My Xbox 360 lasted me 4 years before I finally needed to 'upgrade' which even then only costed me $140 dollars" is a moot point. (also, upgrade? I literally laughed at this.) You paid $140 dollars for hardware that's at least 5 years old. I could spend that on upgrading a low-level PC and still end up with hardware far better than the 360.

Add to this the price of paying for things like Live, extra expense in the price of games, expensive proprietary control input devices, storage upgrades, other miscellaneous costs for services within consoles inherent closed systems, and console makers affinity for price hikes and in the end you pay far more over the years to game on something that has less than a third of the capabilities of a PC gaming rig. (and this doesn't include topics like modding, backwards compatibility, etc, etc)

I've often found those that say console gaming is "better" and/or "cheaper" are the same kinds of people that think like some of the die-hard Mac fans. I've met some that are convinced that once they buy a Mac computer, it's the only one they'll ever need. That somehow, Apple will "upgrade" the thing with software patches. And that these "upgrades" will allow them to run any bit of software for the foreseeable future.

Today's "newest" consoles are built on hardware that's well over half a decade old. Paying more than $100 for one (with controllers) is the exact same as someone needless spending $3000 on some top-of-the-line gaming rig. It's stupid either way.

You sir are wrong. PS3 plus gamefly = way cheaper then PC gaming. Unless I want to stick with flash games and gog. Then renting throws your whole argument out of the window. Game price goes from 10 more on console to aprox 45 less on console. Unless your the type of person who buys every game console is significantly cheaper in the long run

Well I'm mostly a console gamer but I have to say i find my self spending more and more time with my 6 year old comp playing games like Jim just mentioned so point well made

CManator:
I'll admit to being misinformed about PC gaming and Jim has indeed enlightened me. It's probably because everybody I know who games on their PC is constantly upgrading and bragging about it, and those who have a low end PC don't really game with it.

Well guess i'll find out soon enough. A friend is giving me their old PC for free and I'll be seeing what I can do with it.

Still, I will most likely be primarily a console gamer. Frankly I don't see how a mouse and keyboard can possibly be preferable to a controller. (though i'm sure pc gamers feel the opposite)

Well, for me it's matter of what I'm playing.

For something like a fighting game, racing game, platformer, or some action/adventure games a controller is preferred. However, for things like real-time/turn-based strategy games, point-and-click adventure games (durr), and especially first-person games, keyboard and mouse are much preferred. Controllers are just inherently flawed for the latter genres. Especially RTS and first-person games.

So while I will tend to prefer a keyboard/mouse setup, there are still plenty of games/genres wherein I would rather use a controller.

Also, what kind of hardware is in this friends "old" gaming PC? Depending on what's in there now, you could put a small amount of cash into it and upgrade it enough to run a fair number of today's newest titles.

This is actually how I became a fan of Jim, that he's a fan of the smaller (and for lack of a better word) Anime styled games. He wrote several articles on some of NIS America's recent work like Hyperdimension Neptunia and AT Qoga, and now a small shout out to Recettear... Maybe that could be another video, about how all of the people say JRPGs are dieing even when titles like Agarest War and Disgaea are becoming hits.

I do thank god for you Jim, I also thank him for the fact that there is an actual anime titled "Cat Planet Cuties" coming out next year thanks to our friends at Funimation.

To be honest I'd stroke that sword if I had one like it.
Good show.

CManator:
Still, I will most likely be primarily a console gamer. Frankly I don't see how a mouse and keyboard can possibly be preferable to a controller. (though i'm sure pc gamers feel the opposite)

This is an antiquated view of PC gaming and one I see all to often on message boards and I'm not sure why that is... Most PC gamers own a gamepad too or at least an alternate input method.

I play a ton of games with a Gamepad (and have done for aeons). Fighting games, driving games, platformers and such like are all played on gamepad (other games I can think of are: Assassins Creed series and Just Cause 2).
In fact a lot of bad ports almost require you to play with a gamepad due to shoddy/lazy conversion.

What's more is that the PC allows for a far larger choice of control methods than any console does. I personally have 2 360 pads, a Megadrive 6 button, a Six-axis and Madcatz arcade stick all for use on my PC :)

As said I find it strange that people always seem held back by the control method when the PC is known for being a peripheral monster so to speak, and compared to consoles allows for a much broader range of 3rd Party hardware manufacturers, so it would sort of figure you could control it how you pleased.

I agree to Jim's view that some of the PC games that I enjoy don't look that pretty. But I get the feeling that the topic could be branched out in saying you don't need to make a game that fully uses the graphics capabilities of a machine all the time. Sure you can make it available to those who want to use it but other people can make games with other graphics and just be as good. Variety is the spice of life, after all!

bombadilillo:

You sir are wrong. PS3 plus gamefly = way cheaper then PC gaming. Unless I want to stick with flash games and gog. Then renting throws your whole argument out of the window. Game price goes from 10 more on console to aprox 45 less on console. Unless your the type of person who buys every game console is significantly cheaper in the long run

Well of course "renting" will be cheaper. If you plan to only play a game once. I, and most gamers, prefer to actually OWN our games and play them whenever we wish. This is something even consoles can't do. Most new consoles aren't backwards compatible with their last generational brethren. Yet with my PC, I could go play some Doom, Half-Life, Starcraft, or even the DOS based Zork right now on the same rig I play Crysis, Portal 2, Deus Ex: HR, and Starcraft 2 on. Can you play every Xbox game on your 360 or every PS1 game on your PS3? I thought not.

So, no. My argument is not "thrown out the window". It only appears that way because you only play your games for a short time then move on to the next, popular title. Besides, what if you want to play a game again? Can you just go get the disc and pop it in your console? Oop! No you can't. You have to "buy" it again. Just to be able to play it once more. Seems to me that, in the long run, that'd be more expensive then owning the games on a PC. ;)

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