Zero Punctuation: Deus Ex: Human Revolution

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Stall:

And I've seen people defend the boss fights. The best argument I've seen is that it's attempting to communicate that, despite the absolute best efforts one can make, violence is still an inevitability in the world of Deus Ex. If such symbolic importance intended, or if it was someone just reading too much into the game, is difficult to tell, however.

Considering Boss Fights have been a main feature of games since Galazian and Metroid, and few games give you ways around them, I really doubt it was making a philosophical statement at all.

Though I agree they seem a bit too much, I like Yahtzee's statement about what Boss Fights are supposed to be. If levels have multiple ways to get to places, bosses should have the same element.

In Fallout 1, I was able to talk and/or sneak my way around most bosses. Deus Ex I was overwhelmed with ways to do so. Alpha Protocol had unskippable boss fights....except when the reputation system allowed me to get around it (something I discovered by accident).

I'd say that was a pretty fair review, the bit about transhumanism is a bit simple but some people really do feel it's that simple. So indeed a good review.

You could do better. A lot better.

and I still think it's one of the best games I ever Played, anyway good review Yahtzee

GiantRaven:
I don't why people complain about the ending of Human Revolution, unless they also hate the ending to the original game, which pulls exactly the same tricks and ideas.

The big difference is that the original Deus Ex doesn't give you a choice of four buttons to press. In HR, after the final boss, the ending is pasted on as an afterthought, completely disconnected from what you were doing moments before. In the ending of Deus Ex, you are in place with contextual significance, taking meaningful action relevant to your final decision. You don't step into a room and press a button.

Great review,really liked the spot on remarks regarding some of the game's flaws.

Boss fights are also a drag if you choose a non lethal approach.

All in all a good successor to the first Deus Ex.

GiantRaven:
I don't why people complain about the ending of Human Revolution, unless they also hate the ending to the original game, which pulls exactly the same tricks and ideas.

The original Deus Ex didn't end with a slideshow of stock photos and showed you the repercussions of your actions by cutting to what is happening around the world. Also you actively went to other parts of the levels and did different things (yes some entailed button pushing) to end the game instead of being presented with a bunch of buttons right next to each other that generates a different series of slides.

If you dont add nostalgia into the picture, this game is better then the original in pretty much every way.

Guns. Yeah Adam can can pick up anything and us it, but are you telling me Denton could be an expert marksman with a rifle and could NOT his an enemy from 3 feet away with a pistol? Doesnt fly. The handgun rifle heavy system was stupid.

Stealth is actually viable in HR. Hacking isnt just a meter and you dont need a magic multitool to do it. Why do I have to level hacking if my multitool does it?

johndmes:
Amazes me how people keep dissing the ending scenes in Deus Ex:Human Revolution. WE ALL KNOW what happens after the game - it's called Deus Ex 1. There's even a cutscene at the very end of the game, AFTER the credits roll, that ties the two games together. On the PC, you even get a Achievement for watching it!

It's precisely because of that fact that the ending talks about philosophy instead of showing the What Comes After for Adam Jenson - the people at Eidos Montreal decided to respect Deus Ex 1, and as such cannot alter the events leading up to it - so Adam is going to be relegated to the dust of history before the game even starts. There's only ONE part of him that survives - if you want to see what it is, watch through the end credits and see the cutscene.

You get that Achievement no matter what you're playing it on.

Anyway, that's not the point that people are making. DE1 takes place 20 years later, with (mostly) unrelated characters. What we care about are the other characters that aren't covered by DE1 - quite a lot of them just seem to drop off the board, whereas I'd quite like to have found out how my last decision influenced them all - or at least a couple of them. We know what happens in DE1, but what happens 5 minutes/ two days/ a week after DE:HR?

In short, the game has to set things up for DE1, yes. But with the decision made at the end of HR, the route taken to DE1 could be wildly different for different players.

Nothing beats some of the boss fights in the first Deus Ex... specially when all it takes to kill them is a word...

And just think of the poor guys who might have to back that boss up, or hear about it later? "Dude, he just killed him by saying something! HE KILLED HIM WITH A FUCKIN WORD!". If they didn't piss themselves from the sight of that, or when they see you... they were never alive to begin with.

And as for the pacifist run, at least they exempt bosses from it. Though, multiple routes would of been nice. Hell, Metal Gear 4 allowed you to beat bosses through tranqing them, and even rewarded you for doing so.

Sharp and spot on as usual, agreeing with a lot that bothered me as well.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to find out how many Trailblazer paths I haven't discovered yet and what subconscious choices affected the gameplay on my first run.

I'd give the guys more credit for their story tho. Yes it's silly to make such a huge difference between prostheses made of wood and made of 20'000 moving parts, but the big difference is that stuff like glasses and watches are optional. Once you've replaced your right arm in Human Revolution, it's gone and you're stuck with drugs and expensive maintenance (if DX1's talk about mechanical augs is still true). And people start expecting you to upgrade, just like having a driver's license.

Tho I can't really see that scenario happening. We already use robots with superhuman abilities for specific tasks, that has always been the whole point of applied technology, but we never had to strap them to people. Rather, people get thrown out or end up in places where you have to do the brainwork (something we haven't developed the software for yet) while the bots do the work. And well, prostheses will always be prostheses. Doesn't change if you're human or not.

I have to say tho, the game before didn't exactly have the most complicated story either. But maybe that's because All Myths Are True takes it to a level of cheesiness I can't take seriously anymore. The talk with Morpheus was interesting, but aside from that you have your average takeovertheworld bond villains that try to eat power fields bigger than their hats and... well, guys in trenchcoats and sunglasses fighting a New World Order kept secret although it includes hundreds of individual into a top secret plan.
Man, we can't even stop videogames from leaking, the Deus Ex guys really gave humanity too much credit.

O gesus, this was just great work I laughed really hard so much I had to see it thrice just to hear it all... but he really nailed it on all ups and downs of what I think of the game...

Speaking as someone who played the first deus ex and all it's sequels (yes I did endure the torture that was deus ex 2). I totally agreed with everything you said, yahtzee.

The sequel only captured PART of the feel of the original. Where the first game setup a set a rules governed by the game design then put the player in to experience it, human revolution failed because every step of the way you felt things were setup by the designers.

An example is breakable walls; the idea is good but making those breaking walls predetermined is a bad call. The PC should be able to attempt to break every single wall and there must be a reason hinted by in game aesthetics why a wall is unbreakable.

Another very bad immersion breaker is the gameplay cinematic, in the original, when you are in game you are never taken out of control. In human revolution every fucking stealth take down is a cinematic. Worst yet is when you try to jump to another roof you enter the slow fall cinematic.

Where cinematic used in cut scenes to help tell a story is ok, using it in gameplay and particularly in the gameplay of a game like deus ex really breaks the immersion and only create and annoyance.

Where human revolution is better than the first sequel, it still failed to surpass the first game, which is a shame since the first game was made years ago. But then I shouldn't be surprised, we've yet to have a successor to privateer.

Disappointed Yahtzee didn't mine the comedy seam of depicting Jensen as a chubby kid from all the candy bars he has to cram into his face to keep his augs charged up.

ExtraDebit:
Snip

I liked the takedown cinamatic, I disliked the the Icarus thing every freaking time. Also the Typhoon, reminded me of Oot with everything freezing as link casted Dins Fire.

3rd person stealth is good though. Screw your immersion. First person stealth is lame. If you lean out to see somebody then you are seen. Without a hide in the shadows system, which is dumb in this case first person stealth is lame. I take the immersion hit for the gameplay advancment.

MY complaint is tranq rounds were so hard to get. I ended up goin stealth till I ran out of ammo then had to just blast the guys. Since I didnt want to quicksave trial and error.

jmarquiso:

The-Fletch:
I don't think I'll bother with this then. From the review it seems a bit mediocre. All hype, as usual.

You're cheating yourself, but entitled to it. Yahtzee's job is to tear down every game, even the ones he likes. It isn't mediocre, just not the excellent game it could have been, it's merely very good.

Have to disagree with that, while it was an okey game it did nothing to shine.

I dont understand why they felt the need for a prequel...

I agree with everything, exept for ending problem. It is a prequel, so no matter which option you choose, you know the outcome. Thus, question: why bother with choices?

The_Darkness:
Anyway, that's not the point that people are making. DE1 takes place 20 years later, with (mostly) unrelated characters. What we care about are the other characters that aren't covered by DE1 - quite a lot of them just seem to drop off the board, whereas I'd quite like to have found out how my last decision influenced them all - or at least a couple of them. We know what happens in DE1, but what happens 5 minutes/ two days/ a week after DE:HR?

In short, the game has to set things up for DE1, yes. But with the decision made at the end of HR, the route taken to DE1 could be wildly different for different players.

Well, in a way it does tell you what happens.


But it doesn't tell you anything about what happens to specific characters, that much is true.

If you want to continue discussing the story or endings in more detail, I suggest a PM so we don't clog the thread.

I remember one of the first pieces of news I heard about Deus Ex: Human Revolution, was it wasn't going to be dumbed down for consoles...and it appears I was right, instead it was dumbed down in general.

kebab4you:

jmarquiso:

The-Fletch:
I don't think I'll bother with this then. From the review it seems a bit mediocre. All hype, as usual.

You're cheating yourself, but entitled to it. Yahtzee's job is to tear down every game, even the ones he likes. It isn't mediocre, just not the excellent game it could have been, it's merely very good.

Have to disagree with that, while it was an okey game it did nothing to shine.

Merely above average then? I'm also attempting to interpret Yahtzee's review for him, which was hardly the "skip it" review the The-Fletch apparently heard.

Pretty much perfect. A quality title that is very worth playing, particularly if you find the concept appealing, but I can't see it going down as any sort of icon of it's time like the original was.

My biggest issue with the bosses wasn't that you had to fight them, it was actually the other aspect of them mentioned in the review. I wished they had more personality or reason for existing as adversaries. The glimpses of information you get (particularly about Boss #2) shows that there probably was some thought and effort given to creating these characters but not enough of that makes it into the game.

BlackWidower:
I remember one of the first pieces of news I heard about Deus Ex: Human Revolution, was it wasn't going to be dumbed down for consoles...and it appears I was right, instead it was dumbed down in general.

How exactly was it dumbed down? Hacking was rediculously more complex and enjoyable, the skill trees were much more COMPLEX and customizable.

Stealth actually works and is more complex.

More weapon customization

Dialog much more complex and meaningful.

The only thing less complex was regen health. which was already in the original game, you just start with it here.

So where was it dumbed down. Or are you just jumping on some bandwagon to be too cool for the game?

Ha! I knew he wouldn't like it. Yeah, fuck those mandatory boss battles? Do what I want? Sure, so long as "what I want" includes "shooting metalheads in the head."

imnotparanoid:

The-Fletch:
I don't think I'll bother with this then. From the review it seems a bit mediocre. All hype, as usual.

Its Yahtzees job to make games sound bad, buy it, trust me you will not regret it!
I excpect...

Wait what ? His job to make games sound bad? Did you even watch the review , looks like he liked it to me . His job is to point out the pros and cons, which (unlike most reviewers who only focus on pros mostly unles they game is utter shit) is exactly what he does. There's no sugarcoating.

krazykidd:
Wait what ? His job to make games sound bad? Did you even watch the review , looks like he liked it to me . His job is to point out the pros and cons, which (unlike most reviewers who only focus on pros mostly unles they game is utter shit) is exactly what he does. There's no sugarcoating.

I have to agree, he seemed to like it quite a lot - most of his criticisms were quibbles, except perhaps the boss fight comment which is a criticism I've seen in every review so far. He even pointed out that the comparison to the first game was somewhat unfair - although this was done more as a criticism of the industry itself (and rightfully so in my opinion).

After yesterday's Extra Puctuation, I had to do this...

Also, It seems we share some points, but I thought he would enjoy the game enough to let slip some of these issues, but then again, that wouldn't be much fun...

baker80:
Ha! I knew he wouldn't like it. Yeah, fuck those mandatory boss battles? Do what I want? Sure, so long as "what I want" includes "shooting metalheads in the head."

What review did you watch? He very clearly enjoyed the game. Much more than I thought he would.

He spent a lot of time on the negatives because THAT'S KIND OF HIS SHTICK.

Marik Bentusi:

Well, in a way it does tell you what happens.


But it doesn't tell you anything about what happens to specific characters, that much is true.

If you want to continue discussing the story or endings in more detail, I suggest a PM so we don't clog the thread.

Whoa, gotta disagree with you there.

Are there any spoilers i should worry about??

AWAR:
Are there any spoilers i should worry about??

Yes, he spoils a lot, like all of it. Literally.But he tells you beforehand so you should be able to stop it.

Short version. HE likes it, minor complaints about modern gaming and some plot grumples.

One issue I have with the game was the yellow alpha overlay they put over damn near everything. And I don't mean the enhanced locator thing that highlights stuff you can interact with, I mean how 90% of the game looks like someone pissed over the screen and it stuck there. And you can't tell me that it's because of his sunglasses because that same yellow alpha effect was over everything at the start of the game before he got augmented.

It's like watching the matrix revolutions where everything in the matrix became green for some odd reason only choosing piss yellow as the color of choice.

bombadilillo:

AWAR:
Are there any spoilers i should worry about??

Yes, he spoils a lot, like all of it. Literally.But he tells you beforehand so you should be able to stop it.

Short version. HE likes it, minor complaints about modern gaming and some plot grumples.

WoW.. Thanks a bunch man, you just saved me from walking into a huge spoilerfest.
Thumbs up to you.

Yes:
- The way how you choose your ending and the actual entire setup for it was, kindly said, bullshit. Not writing anything more because people reading this are basically afraid of spoilers as I see above, everyone knows what I mean anyway.

No:
- The first boss fight can be won on any difficulty without a scratch without shooting a single bullet; using the Stungun, even within 10 seconds. The second and third need shooting, but you still can enter the room without having a SINGLE damaging gun, and still win.
The last fight is considerably pretty bad, only for one reason, it's hell of easy. However, you can still influence the pace of it via the social part of gameplay, so "only shooting" doesn't apply to the last one at all.
- Hacking, while some people love it, others not so much, is an absolutely huge part of the game, and the actual analyze nodes-upgrade speeds up choice and path far harder than anyone can assume before actually trying it. Not denying it is still the most useless upgrade of all.
- Complaining about Adam being able to use any gun without any kind of training? He was a S.W.A.T.-unit, this line was just stupid.

Well Yahtzee is a hard reviewer and I'm still pleased with this job he did here. Yet I will, while acknowledging all the mistakes Eidos made, insisit on the saying that Human Revolution is the first must-play for easily 5 years.

LTK_70:
Whoa, gotta disagree with you there.

I think we should use PMs for this...

Another thing that bothers me is what ISN'T covered in any of the endings.

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